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Inside Apple's iPhone SDK Gag Order

Posted by samzenpus on from the the-first-rule-of-iPhone dept.

snydeq writes "InfoWorld's Tom Yager takes a closer look at Apple's iPhone SDK confidentiality agreement, which restricts developers from discussing the SDK or exchanging ideas with others, thereby leaving no room for forums, newsgroups, open source projects, tutorials, magazine articles, users' groups, or books. But because anyone is free to obtain the iPhone SDK by signing up for it, Apple is essentially branding publicly available information as confidential. This 'puzzling contradiction' is the 'antithesis of the developer-friendly Apple Developer Connection' on which the iPhone SDK program is based, Yager contends. 'You'll see arguments from armchair legal analysts that the iPhone developer Agreements won't stand up in court — but those analysts certainly won't stand up in court on your behalf.' Anyone planning to launch an iPhone forum or open source project should have 'a lawyer draft your request for exemption, and make sure that the Apple staffer granting it personally commits to status as authorized to approve exceptions to the iPhone Registered Developer and iPhone SDK Agreements,' Yager warns."

49 of 495 comments (clear)

  1. no sale, here, then by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I had no idea about this. I don't follow apple things (...) but given how sue-happy they are, they can certainly live without MY buying any of their gear.

    simply because of this, alone; I vow not to buy an iphone. I was not really in the market but now I know for sure that apple is on my blacklist (at least the evil phones).

    apple: are you trying to dislodge MS as the most hated computer company around? keep it up, mate....

    --

    --
    "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    1. Re:no sale, here, then by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, Do Without.

      I really don't understand why everyone is willing to buy Apple products at inflated prices with draconian contracts of adhesion.

      A phone is a phone is a phone. Don't fall for it.
      Buy generic phones, or better yet, just take the free one provided with your wireless providers contract of adhesion.

      If more people thought this way, there would be less of this insanity in the marketplace, and manufactures would have to compete by price alone.

    2. Re:no sale, here, then by Grey+Ninja · · Score: 5, Insightful

      apple: are you trying to dislodge MS as the most hated computer company around? keep it up, mate....

      They're already there, as far as I'm concerned. Apple's business practices just reeks of some mad power trip in general. They absolutely despise people using their products (be it hardware or software) in ways that they had not intended. Microsoft is FAR their superior in that regard. The main evil with Microsoft is seen by the IT professional, not the consumer. With Apple, it's generally the other way around.

      The only explanation I can see for Apple's recent surge in popularity is their marketing, which is absolutely top notch.

    3. Re:no sale, here, then by loganrapp · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well, that's one more reason to wait and see how the HTC Dream and other Android-using devices work out.

    4. Re:no sale, here, then by theantipop · · Score: 4, Funny

      The only explanation I can see for Apple's recent surge in popularity is their marketing, which is absolutely top notch.

      Really? That's the only explanation?

    5. Re:no sale, here, then by HumanEmulator · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The only explanation I can see for Apple's recent surge in popularity is their marketing, which is absolutely top notch.

      So in the past 10 years, the switch to a unix based operating system with modern object oriented apis, the switch to intel hardware that made an easier transition for windows developers, the acquisition and development of technologies like multi-touch, the negotiating with record labels to break out of the subscription model, the adoption of open source for many parts of the operating system (from Darwin to WebKit) and so on had nothing to do with it?

      Yeah, it's silly that they haven't lifted the NDA yet, but it's not like developers have gotten excited about their platform because of brightly colored commercials.

    6. Re:no sale, here, then by BhaKi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Every anti-competitive trick used by M$ is also used by Apple. However, M$ has a monopoly and Apple doesn't. For some people, this is reason enough to abstain from hating Apple. Unfortunately, such people don't realize that they are just becoming silent promoters of such tricks.

      --
      The largest prime factor of my UID is 263267.
    7. Re:no sale, here, then by ontheroll · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As an owner of an iPhone 3G who previously owned dozens of different phones from all possible manufacturers (SE, Nokia, Siemens, Motorola, HTC, Samsung, just to name a few), I have to say that iPhone is superior for two simple facts:

      1) It is, BY FAR, the most intuitive and easy-to-use-out-of-the-box phone I have ever used.

      2) It is fun to use. Sure, all new phones are fun in the beginning, but after 2 weeks with this phone I still enjoy every time I surf the web or write an eMail with it. Something that never happend to me with any other phone (and not with any of the same generation competitors of the iPhone).

      So yes, it has many downsides, Apple are bastards when it comes to their control freakiness but their products are better.

    8. Re:no sale, here, then by Bones3D_mac · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Apple charged iPod owners $10 for the 2.0 software update. There is some claim that business law requires them to do this, which is nonsense as Sony routinely give the PSP new features for free. MS released their 2.0 Zune update for free for older Zune's etc... So I'm not sure why Apple is defended in this practice when Sony and MS are possibly two of the most evil companies out there.

      Yeah, this is the same crap they pulled on their customer base who purchased 802.11n-ready hardware, then charged them to turn it on. Their reasoning, a bunch of meaningless jargon that somehow seems to lack any basis in reality outside of Apple:

      Apple said it is required under generally accepted accounting principles to charge customers for the software upgrade. "The nominal distribution fee for the 802.11n software is required in order for Apple to comply with generally accepted accounting principles for revenue recognition, which generally require that we charge for significant feature enhancements, such as 802.11n, when added to previously purchased products,"

      Needless to say, this ploy has been affectionately dubbed the "Apple Tax" by those who were duped by it.

      --


      8==8 Bones 8==8
    9. Re:no sale, here, then by Candid88 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In fact, I'd go so far as to say sometimes Apple's anti-competitive practices make Microsoft look like angels by comparison.

      I'm no M$ fan in anyway but I do find it remarkable how much stuff Apple get away.

    10. Re:no sale, here, then by GaryPatterson · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, the parent post is not insightful. Rules change when you hit monopoly status, and the reason is purely so that companies can have a chance to compete against entrenched monopolies in a sector.

      You want to allow product tying for non-monopoly players, but disallow it for the monopolies. That's good governance, and talk of "silent promotion" merely attempts to weaken systems like this.

      The things that Apple does may be the same as what Microsoft did in the bad old days (although I have yet to hear good examples beyond vague anti-corporate claptrap) but there is nothing wrong with that because Apple has no monopoly in any market.

      Even with the iPod, Apple is not a monopoly player in the music space because that's something ruled in a court, and personal opinions count for nothing. I'd say that's the best point to move against Apple, but it's way off-topic (we're talking phones here) and so irrelevant.

      Hell, even the whole sue-the-blogger fiasco was grounded in law and perfectly legal for any company, even Microsoft. It may have been odious, but it's perfectly legal to go after people inducing the breaking of NDAs in California. (To the lawyers: I'm going from memory here, please correct me if I've got this wrong).

      Lastly, hating a company means that you're defining your reactions by them. It's precisely as valid as loving a company. Neither are logical or even sensible.

    11. Re:no sale, here, then by GaryPatterson · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Too true!

      A Mac can set you back a few thousand, but Microsoft's PC only... uh... okay, Microsoft don't sell PCs.

      So OS X costs $129, which is just ridiculous compared to Microsoft's Vista, which is only... oh. $239 is the recommended price for Home Premium, and goes up to $399 for Ultimate.

      Well, at least Microsoft beat Apple on mouse prices! Woo! Good mice too (I always use them).

      Yup, except for computers and operating systems, Microsoft beat Apple's pricing every time.

      To be fair, they don't make computers.

    12. Re:no sale, here, then by Candid88 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "but there is nothing wrong with that because Apple has no monopoly in any market."

      Nothing wrong to you maybe, personally I think no matter what the game, the players should all be playing by the same rules.

      "the whole sue-the-blogger fiasco was grounded in law"

      Yea, grounded in bad law, which doesn't make it right. The Nuremberg trials after the Holocaust established that.

      Let's be clear, given the evidence at hand, if history was different and Apple were in Microsoft's position there would be, if anything, far less openness and freedom for innovation in the software industry.

    13. Re:no sale, here, then by GaryPatterson · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nothing wrong to you maybe, personally I think no matter what the game, the players should all be playing by the same rules.

      The effect of which will be to ensure that an entrenched monopoly can never be taken down, even by a better competitor.

      As an example, imagine any competitor selling a product when the monopoly can temporarily drop their price to near zero.

      Playing by the same rules is nice on paper, but when you get into reality you have to see that the big players have more clout than the little ones, so unless their hands are tied in some manner, they'll kill the little players stone dead. It is in their interest to kill competition off as quickly as possible.

      Anti-trust laws (and their equivalents around the world) are an attempt to even the playing field, not distort it.

      Yea, grounded in bad law, which doesn't make it right. The Nuremberg trials after the Holocaust established that.

      You are kidding here, I assume. No sane person could put those two together.

      Moving swiftly on...

      Let's be clear, given the evidence at hand, if history was different and Apple were in Microsoft's position there would be, if anything, far less openness and freedom for innovation in the software industry.

      No, you think this is so. I think it's not. History went another way and we can only speculate. Don't pretend that your opinion is any more valid than mine on this. We're both guessing.

    14. Re:no sale, here, then by mabhatter654 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Apple will never be in Microsoft's position because of their behavior... it automatically limits them to a low percent. Microsoft got where they are because they allowed (encouraged) rampant piracy of everybody else's stuff, Hardware, BIOS, etc. and they let any developer play for cheap with almost no strings. Of course that's why we have the huge mess of poor security, out-of-date browsers, and masses of old code that won't go away... being so big cost them the first-mover position... Forget how many copies of Vista are sold... how many REPLACED XP? Apple is pushing 30%-50% upgrade rate on Tiger boxes... Microsoft couldn't touch that if they gave the new OS away for free.. the joys of being a monopoly is that you have to cater to EVERYONE... Microsoft table scraps would create another Apple-size company overnight.

    15. Re:no sale, here, then by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You want to allow product tying for non-monopoly players, but disallow it for the monopolies. That's good governance

      Er, what? How is that good governance. I'm trying really hard to think of why we should allow artificial product tying ... and failing.

      How is society served by requiring iTunes to activate an iPhone? How does the free market benefit when Apple abuse their iTunes install base to install Safari for Windows?

      I can swallow "natural" tying .... like the iPhone SDK to a Mac .... because implementing the SDK in a cross platform fashion is hard and that shouldn't be an aspect of law. But Apple actually had to go out of their way to make the iPhone depend on iTunes and I'm just having a really hard time seeing why that kind of crap should only be illegal when you're a monopoly. Because to me it seems inherently bad.

      Lastly, hating a company means that you're defining your reactions by them. It's precisely as valid as loving a company. Neither are logical or even sensible.

      Another non-sequitur. A company is just a group of people. It's not illogical to dislike a company, anymore than it's illogical to dislike a group of bullies at high school, or a band, or a political party. Companies don't get a special "get out of emotions free" card through virtue of being incorporated.

    16. Re:no sale, here, then by nano2nd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'll try to respond easily to your comment of:

      "If more people thought this way, there would be less of this insanity in the marketplace, and manufactures would have to compete by price alone."

      Actually, I can't. That is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. If manufacturers compete on price alone, all we are left with as consumers, is crappy generic products.

      Competition based on design, functionality, features, quality, service etc is a Good Thing. Competition based purely on price is a race to the bottom. It hurts us, the consumers. It hurts the employees of the manufacturers as they fight to keep costs as low as possible.

      --
      G4 Hackintosh
    17. Re:no sale, here, then by Jellybob · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But Apple actually had to go out of their way to make the iPhone depend on iTunes and I'm just having a really hard time seeing why that kind of crap should only be illegal when you're a monopoly.

      They tie it to iTunes, because that's the software they use for synchronising it with a computer. It also happens to be the software that someone owning an Apple device with music capabilities is likely to be using.

      Would you also be complaining if they released some standalone sync software, which did exactly the same thing as iTunes currently does?

    18. Re:no sale, here, then by Stradivarius · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Rules do change when you hit monopoly status. But just because some shady business practice is legal doesn't make it right, something that should escape criticism, or something that we want to support by purchasing Apple's products.

      Some of us don't want to give our money to any company that tries to force you into a contractual relationship just to develop your own software, thus stifling open source development. Much like we don't want to give our money to companies that try to shackle their customers - why should a customer have to "jailbreak" their iPhone?

      A company is supposed to be about providing value to its customers, not luring them with a little value, then turning around and denying the customer fair use of their own property just to extract their pound of flesh from a largely captive audience. Some phone carriers do this kind of nonsense by crippling the Bluetooth profiles on phones its customers use. Heaven forbid you add your own ringtones, even though the phone is capable of it, rather than pay the carrier for the exact same data you've already bought elsewhere. Apple does it by limiting your ability to put files on the phone, limiting what software can be developed for the phone, and generally trying to prevent you from using your own device in any way Apple doesn't like. It's like GM selling cars that won't drive near a Midas shop.

      These sorts of things are all very legal but also anti-consumer. The GP is right that these tactics aren't going to go away as long as people continue to tolerate and encourage them by patronizing such companies.

      I am currently shopping for a phone. The iPhone would have been one of my leading candidates if it wasn't for this kind of nonsense. I'll probably end up getting an HTC model instead. If more people took that approach, maybe Apple would get the message that what it's doing isn't acceptable.

    19. Re:no sale, here, then by batkiwi · · Score: 4, Informative

      It is not nonsense just because you are not willing to do any research.

      MS accounts for the sale of an item (XP/Zune/360/etc) over (typically) 6 quarters. That means that they can argue that work they do in the meantime is compensated for (under sabarnes oaxley (sic)).

      Apple, apart from the iphone and appletv, has typically accounted for profits immediately. S-O laws state that any future features must be accounted for, or else they have to re-file their SEC reports to modify the sales record such that x% of the original sale was in the quarter the new functionality was delivered.

      It's a well meaning law which has stupid consequences. From the outside, you would argue that MS is scamming the SEC by accounting for a single xbox sale over 6 quarters, and that apple is doing the RIGHT thing by doing all profits immediately. This is not the case, though, thanks to the law.

    20. Re:no sale, here, then by Firehed · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I agree, but you have to remember that their overbearing protection schemes are also the reason that their products are popular. Say what you want about it from a Freedom perspective, but when one person/group/company controls the entire ecosystem, they're able to weed out the junk that plagues the other ecosystems out there. A year and a half on I still can't get decent drivers for Vista for my very-current-at-the-time system, but I've absolutely never had issues of hardware or driver compatibility on my MBP.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
  2. Typical Apple by BoldAC · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I am a big Apple supporter and member of the apple rumors community... however...

    Apple can get away with this because they can outspend almost any web/forum site. If they are in the right or wrong, who cares? They can keep throwing lawyers at you until you give.

    They attack Apple rumors site on a routine basis for BS claims of copyright or trade secrets. If I take a picture of somebody else holding a pre-release iPhone, how is that copyright? They are in the public!

    Look at the EULA and Apple attacking the company making mac clones. Most lawyers do not think that the EULA would stand; however, no company (other than microsoft or google) could tolerate the time/money that fighting would cost.

    1. Re:Typical Apple by paroneayea · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So... I guess this kind of mentality puzzles me. There are a lot of apple users out there, who, like you, acknowldge that they're being dicked around mostly even because you take interest.

      To me it almost seems like an abusive relationship. You care about them, they beat you up, and you keep coming back. Why?

      Note, I don't mean you, per se. But it seems pretty common in the Apple fanboy communities.

      --
      http://mediagoblin.org/
  3. So basically, no learning help? by TellarHK · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So with this NDA issue, I can't buy a book, read a forum, get any assistance at all with writing my iPhone application... So what the hell good is an SDK you can't talk about? Is this cellular fight club or something?

    Apple, fix this shit. Really. Fix it now. There's no excuse for not letting the NDA go, no way that it protects you. The phone's been jailbroken, it _will_ be unlocked, so why stifle development?

    --
    My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
    1. Re:So basically, no learning help? by AllIGotWasThisNick · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Is this cellular fight club or something?

      Not quite. I expect the iPhone SDK NDA bullshit will end with the end of the Android SDK NDA bullshit. Neither wants to show their cards first.

  4. I had assumed this would be lifted Real Soon Now. by w3woody · · Score: 4, Interesting

    After all, the iPhone SDK cannot remain a "beta" forever, and once it's no longer a beta, I presume the SDK will show up side-by-side with the MacOS X Cocoa SDK from which it was derived.

    Most of Apple's beta stuff has the same confidentiality agreement, so I presumed this was just a bug.

  5. This will have to change... by Karpe · · Score: 5, Informative

    Stanford has announced that it will be offering an iPhone development course. I would also expect that many books on iPhone development are being edited to be published soon. For these to occur, iPhone development information cannot be under NDA. So it's just a matter of time. Apple is not stupid.

  6. If this is the computing model of the future by paroneayea · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...then the future for computer users and developers is heading toward some pretty shitty seas.

    --
    http://mediagoblin.org/
    1. Re:If this is the computing model of the future by TheNucleon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It is, no doubt.

      I mean, look at the programmable hardware platforms out there that "the powers that be" won't let you program. Game consoles, smartphones, even APIs for stinking video cards. This is all hardware that WE BUY, yet, we can't find out how to write our own stuff unless we are a big dev house and pay tons of $$. Ridiculous.

      Developers, developers, developers, developers.

      --
      My comments are my own, and do not represent the views of my employer, my spouse, my children, or my cats.
    2. Re:If this is the computing model of the future by trawg · · Score: 5, Informative

      I like Nokia's new advertising platform:

      http://www.opentoanything.com/

      At a glance it looks like they've identified Apple's closed stance is a big gripe for developers and hardcore tech-types, and they're going after that market.

      Obviously they've also got Google on the other side, but I hope they do well out of this. If they stop spamming out a billion different mobile models a year and focus on getting some nice, neat hardware backed by some good open source, get enough developer support, and they could have something going on.

    3. Re:If this is the computing model of the future by Meneth · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's a big, fat lie, of course.

      Not only is Symbian closed-source, bug-ridden and otherwise horribly hard to write for.

      All programs must also be digitally signed by Symbian Inc. to be installable on consumer phones. And if you use certain "protected" APIs, you'll have to shell out some 20 USD per signing.

      Yes, documentation is freely available, but it's so lacking in important details that it might as well not be.

      Furthermore, I think that the comment edit box should be enlarged.

  7. Sorry I can't talk about this. by blanchae · · Score: 5, Funny

    This forum is in contempt of the NDA.

  8. Message Received. by mkcmkc · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Apple doesn't want me to program their hardware. I hear and will obey...

    --
    "Not an actor, but he plays one on TV."
  9. Apple hosts public iPhone discussions by reversible+physicist · · Score: 4, Informative

    If you do a Google search for "apple developer forums" the top hit is the developer discussion at "discussions.apple.com". Most of the discussion there at the moment is about iPhone development. This discussion is in no way private.

    1. Re:Apple hosts public iPhone discussions by Coolhand2120 · · Score: 5, Funny

      And therefore violates the terms of the iPhone SDK EULA! Which is what makes it so entirely silly.

      The EULA for Safari for windows also forbids the installing of safari on windows. Again silly. Apple needs to become about 638% less litigious. Yes, I quantified it, wana fight about it?

  10. Typical Steve Jobs... by PC+and+Sony+Fanboy · · Score: 4, Funny

    With a mad dictator like steve jobs at the helm, what more would you expect?

    He'll demand that people conform to his world view, and demand that the people working for him force their customers to conform to his world view.

    Now, he's demanding that his workers force his customers to force THEIR customers to conform...

    *phew*... I'm so glad I don't work for / with / against / near Apple. I get winded just thinking about them!

  11. Re:Try not to choke. by zapakh · · Score: 5, Funny

    A secret survey conducted by the Rand Corporation in the 1970s confirmed that any person attracted to white, plastic machines completely without sharp edges is an utter homosexual, subconsciously wishing to insert them into his rectum.

    Wow. I gotta watch Wall-E again...

  12. Common Fanboy Behaviour, in general... by PC+and+Sony+Fanboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Can you think of a single fanboy that doesn't defend his obsession to death? ... then again, I guess that *is* the definition of fanboy.

    1. Re:Common Fanboy Behaviour, in general... by Concerned+Onlooker · · Score: 5, Funny

      Indeed. Remarkable insightful for someone who has "Fanboy" in his username. :-)

      --
      http://www.rootstrikers.org/
  13. No, it'll end when... by PC+and+Sony+Fanboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It won't end until the piratebay.org steps in and provides a safe, secure, overseas forum to discuss apple products.

    OH wait, this isn't even piracy. It isn't even 'stealing' ... its just talking to another human being who has the same program you have... like, Idea sharing.

    I guess they really mean it when they say "Think Different". As in, don't you DARE think what he's thinking. Don't even think about thinking about it...

  14. The first rule of Apple SDK Developers club is.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...you don't talk about Apple SDK Developers club.

  15. That's amazingly stupid! by zullnero · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When I first got into Palm development 10 years ago, there was a vibrant and amazing community...I used to participate heavily in the mailing list and forums back then. If you wanted to do something that wasn't explained in the manual, you could post a question...and there was a good chance the person giving you a reply was one of their top OS design engineers. Microsoft started doing some of that later on when they had so many employees with free time on their hands...but you couldn't put a price on that kind of interaction. It seriously helped me pick up the platform so quickly, and that helped me build a pretty good career for myself. Even now I'm still a Palm OS hobbyist for mainly that reason.

    I can't see that happening with iPhone. What a stupid, stupid way to go about things. Palm didn't even have a robust platform, and they kept a huge market dominance way longer than they should have by making it easy to develop for their platform by keeping things out in the open. You had to sign agreements, but it wasn't this fascist Apple crap for sure. I'll take on any Apple fanboy on that point.

  16. No browsers, no API, players or background apps by Coolhand2120 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The SDK EULA also says a lot of other bullshit:

    3.3.2 An Application may not itself install or launch other executable code by any means, including without limitation through the use of a plug-in architecture, calling other frameworks, other APIs or otherwise. No interpreted code may be downloaded and used in an Application except for code that is interpreted and run by Apple's Published APIs and built-in interpreter(s).

    Kaspersky dosen't like that idea

    Slashdotters apparently don't like that you can never write browsers, music/video players or background applications.

    Voice over IP apps like Skype that attempt to use the cellular data connection will be blocked. Competing web browsers Firefox and Opera are forbidden.

    I can't think of any other company that has ever done anything like this. I'm really just curious, has any company ever publicised a SDK that has been so very private and restrictive? No other browsers?!?

    This story reminds me of the time I tried to hook my Apple cinema display up to my Cable box's DVI port, it's just not worth it, even if you get it to work, you have 5 more lbs of monitor you've got to hide somewhere, just because Apple wanted to squeeze a little dough out of people with more proprietary cable connectors.

    Apple has always been about "Show me the money", every action they take reemphasized that they are only interested in more money, not innovation. Here though, they really go out of their way to stifle innovation with literals like "...calling other frameworks, other APIs or otherwise...". It really says it all, don't bother trying to write this for our hardware, you may compete with us in such a way that we can't fuck you properly.

  17. It's rather obvious why the NDA exists by cybereal · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you read the documentation that is available after agreeing to the discolsure agreement, you'll see that it is all marked as unfinished. They have a reasonably strong argument in their favor of preventing the widespread publishing of stupid wrong information based on incomplete and potentially incorrect documentation while they finish it up.

    The NDA will surely be lifted when the documentation is finished.

    --
    I read the script, and I think it would help my character's motivation if he was on fire. -Bender
    1. Re:It's rather obvious why the NDA exists by GaryPatterson · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Others' right to prevent me is called censorship.

      Only if it's the government. No-one else can stop you unless you're using their forum or products you've licensed from them.

      Slashdot can ban all posts about pandas if they like. It's their forum and while it may irritate, it's not censorship.

      Your right of free speech ends when you need someone else to publish what you say.

  18. Re:Not quite accurate by dredwerker · · Score: 5, Informative

    The N810 has a much better res screen, it runs linux, it runs lots of opensource apps. It will connect up to your 3g phone to give you 3g access. It has a keyboard. It will also run Google Android. The Apple kit is shiney but try typing an email on a touch screen hmmm nice. O and while I am at it where is that GPS in the touch ? I want a new Iphone 3g for some inexplicable reason, it is shiney and its kinda fun. I wont buy one though. I hate locked down kit.

    --
    On a long enough timeline. The survival rate for everyone drops to zero. Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club, 1996
  19. What uttter nonsense. by jcr · · Score: 5, Informative

    The iPhone SDK is still a beta release, and the restrictions on discussing it are precisely the same as we Apple developers have always had for developer seed releases of OS X. Jager's trolling for page hits.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  20. Re:It does not have less memory by cloakable · · Score: 4, Informative

    Actually, the N8*0 fully supports the SDHC standard. Those 32GB cards out now? If I REALLY wanted (and had the money they're charging for them), I could pop two of them into my N800, for 64GB of storage. I'm currently using two 4GB sticks at the moment, but when I start running low, I can always (and cheaply) upgrade just the storage.

    --
    No tyrant thrives when every subject says no.
  21. Don't need PirateBay, Apple lets you by yabos · · Score: 4, Informative

    Check out Apple's own forum where people are discussing the iPhone SDK and have been for months http://discussions.apple.com/forum.jspa?forumID=727&start=0