Apparent Suicide In Anthrax Case

penguin_dance passes along the news that a respected anthrax researcher, about to be indicted, has committed suicide. The FBI has been investigating the case since anthrax-contaminated letters were sent to the media and various politicians in 2001. The AP's coverage mentions that prosecutors intended to seek the death penalty. The suicide was not the one you might imagine if you've been following the story. "A top government scientist who helped the FBI analyze samples from the 2001 anthrax attacks has died in Maryland from an apparent suicide, just as the Justice Department was about to file criminal charges against him for the attacks, the Los Angeles Times has learned. Bruce E. Ivins, 62, who for the last 18 years worked at the government's elite biodefense research laboratories at Ft. Detrick, Md., had been informed of his impending prosecution... The extraordinary turn of events followed the government's payment in June of a settlement valued at $5.82 million to a former government scientist, Steven J. Hatfill, who was long targeted as the FBI's chief suspect despite a lack of any evidence that he had ever possessed anthrax."

Comments

Oh, the irony

[sm62704]

A suicidal man getting the death penalty. If I rob a bank will they give me double the amount of the cash I steal?

When I die it will likely be a horrible death, like most people - cancer, heart disease, accident, violence, falling down in a nursing home, alzheimers, etc.

But a murderer gets euthanized, like a beloved pet is put down.

I want murderers to spend the rest of their lives horribly and end horribly, like most of us non criminals. I don't mind my tax money going to incarceration of violent people, but I do mind my government murdering in my name. We should join the civilized world and stop executing people.

Re:Oh, the irony

[slew]

If you let who people are decide whether you treat them with respect, you will quickly polarize the society into "those like us" and "those unlike us", and you'll be back to a tribal society, not a civilization. We're on the path there, I'm afraid.

Sadly, I doubt there is a society or a subset of society that ever existed which is civilized under your definition. Starting in kindergarden/gradeschool society, we are essentially taught that some people are worth treating with respect, and some are not (e.g., ones who follow rules are to be respected, ones that don't are shamed). Later on people who follow the rules are not respected, and the rule-breakers are admired. Then it's people who are good at sports, or math, or skateboard or use computers or have girlfriends or boyfriends or have a job, or have been on a cruise, or been to europe, or been to vietnam, or are married, or have kids or have grandkids or coloring your hair or just happen to be in the opposite set which are the complement of these things.

Societies are generally always structured into the conforming and the non-conforming outsiders. Generally the non-conforming outsiders usually get no respect or in many cases no rights at all (for example that will most certainly date me, on early usenet, some sites didn't allow newbies to post at all). The "in" crowd makes the rules, generally to differentiate them from the "outsiders" and create the exclusion set. More often than not, the rules also make provisions for transitioning members from the inclusion set to the exclusion set (e.g., excommunication, shunning, banning, blocking, voting-out, etc).

Although it's just a matter of degree, I doubt being 100% "civilized" by your definition would ever the goal of any actual society, lest they let the outsiders in and ruin it ;^)

Prepare a press leak, Smitty, we have a patsy

[John Jorsett]

I've grown increasingly cynical about government in recent years. I wonder, did the feds see that this guy knocked himself off and think, "Hey, here's a perfect target we can accuse and use to divert attention from the Hatfill mess and the fact that we haven't found anybody in 6 years."? Not saying that happened, but it's telling that it was the first thing that went through my mind when I heard this.

Re:Prepare a press leak, Smitty, we have a patsy

[rpillala]

This doesn't directly address your question, but there's a great deal more to this story: http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/01/anthrax/index.html

Misleading the investigation?

[dlgeek]

Apparently he helped the FBI in analyzing the samples in the initial investigation. TFA says the investigation shifted focus in 2006 and

Moreover, significant progress was made in analyzing genetic properties of the anthrax powder recovered from letters addressed to two senators.

I wonder if he faked his analysis and used it to frame Hatfill (the guy the Government had announced as a person of interest, sued the NYTimes and the Justice Dept. for libel and got a big settlement from the later) Also from TFA:

Soon after the government's settlement with Hatfill was announced June 27, Ivins began showing signs of serious strain.

Maybe he knew they were closing in on him?

Re:How do you spell, TERRORIST?

[LaskoVortex]

Huh, funny. But he was a terrorist, right?

Maybe a relevant question is to ask his political affiliations. The contaminated mail was sent to Democrat Senators. You decide.

Motive?

[jtcm]

There's no mention of any potential motive for a "top government scientist" to start mailing anthrax.

Why did he (allegedly) do it? Why did it occur in the month following 9/11? What was his relation to the 9/11 terrorists?

Bruce E. Ivins doesn't sound like a Muslim name. Did he have any friends or relatives in the Middle East? I'm disappointed that TFA doesn't address any of these questions. I wonder if they'll ever be answered.

Re:Motive?

[NorQue]

Most of the time you're right. But in this special case, the one that Glenn Greenwald outlines, which involves those sources that confirm the Anthrax link to Iraq to ABC, someone lied. Either the Reporter who made up those sources, or the Sources themselves. It's hard to explain away this case with incompetence. I'd love to hear an explanation from ABC for that.

Re:Motive?

[Mr. Beatdown]

Timothy McVeigh is what you'd call a right wing terrorist. He believed America was great and the federal government's expanding power was ruining America. He viewed the federal government, but not state and local governments, as evil. He has not ever claimed to be Christian or anarchist. He was a terrorist in that he targeted federal government buildings as a symbolic gesture.

Eric Rudolph is the abortion clinic bomber, and most certainly describes himself as Christian. His actions, of course, have been widely and loudly denounced by the Christian community worldwide. He is accurately described as a Christian extremist. He was also responsible for the pipe-bombing at the Atlanta games. He was a terrorist in that he intentionally bombed populated areas, in order to make a psychological spectacle of the carnage.

If someone were to kill another person because of the second person's job, they would be an assassin, and probably a murderer, but not necessarily a terrorist. Terrorists target a population wider than those they attack. They attempt to accomplish their goals by the intimidation of a group of people. Not every assassin or even murderer is automatically a terrorist.

The deliberate killing of a head of state, an abortionist, the president of a multi-national corporation, or even the guy down the street isn't terrorism unless the true target of your attack is someone other than your victim.

I'd say there's a good chance Mr. Ivins could fall into the murderer/assassin but not terrorist category.

Re:Is this News For Geeks?

[T.E.D.]

I fail to see how this is relevant to the general slashdot content

You may not have noticed the icons at the top of the story, but this was classified under "Government", "Biotech", and "Science". I think rightly in all 3 cases.

You could perhaps make a case for the argument that the "Government" stuff should not be on slashdot, but the other two categories certianly belong here.

I'd argue you the first one too though. Politics is most assuredly "stuff that matters". And if you don't think political people are "nerds", you clearly have never heard Markos (of DailyKos) speak.

Re:Is this News For Geeks?

[ShibaInu]

Let's see - this is about a mysterious case involving weaponized anthrax that had to be developed by someone with pretty specific technical knowledge. Futhermore, it involves the FBI, DOD biological weapons labs, conspiracy theories, etc. Seems to me to be pretty geeky.

Don't like it - don't read it.

Choice of targets and timing

[Anonymous Coward]

Before everyone runs off and drinks yet some more governmental press release kool aid, apply some normal flatfoot 101 to this situation, use a clean slate.

Look at who got the mailings, and when they got the mailings, and what was coincidently in the news at the same time, to establish a probable motive. Also note the "cover letters" which were meant to cast blame on "islamic terrorists", with a lot of death to the infidels and america and israel, etc nonsense written in pidgin misspelled english.

who = news media sources, and two *important* high ranking Dem senators. The first news media source, the tabloid writer in florida, who was infected and later died, is a wildcard, no ties whatsoever with the others for any apparent motive, except one. He was working on a story that dealt with a leadership position in a tangential way, something that would have embarrassed some powerful people. The other newsies were top dogs in their fields, meaning they have huge propaganda influence. Some of the letters were mailed, some hand delivered, but no one is saying by whom, this has never been publicly determined.

when and what = right before debate on the Patriot Act. How coincidental. congress gets shut down, hysteria in the news headlines, anthrax mailings happen, made to look like Abdul J. Jihad did it, patriot act passed easily, despite overwhelming and clearly just plain wrong big brother aspects to it.

So maybe he did it, maybe not, but there are some juicy bits there to think about. Maybe he was meant to be a patsy and fall guy, after first getting his cooperation by enlisiting his sense of "patriotism" and telling him "sometimes you have to crack a few eggs to make an omelet" or call it "unfortunate collateral damage, but the strike had to be done". Maybe he was a manchurian brainwashed asset, maybe....but the timing and targets will remain highly suspicious, especially because of the obvious attempt at misdirection and the tremendous political and economic gains to be had by changing the direction of the US in a huge way. And there's your few trillion dollars in motive, along with control of the most powerful government on the planet, and the direction of mideast geopolitical and energy ppolicy, and increasing daily.

Next question: Who profits? Add it up.

Re:Conspiracy Theory: Allways kill the assisin

[Joe The Dragon]

It worked for Oswald only this time it was made to be a Suicide so we don't need a sick assassin to kill the assassin.

Re:Clueless FBI

[R2.0]

Yes, but an "accidental" contamination is a good cover for an intentional removal of samples to weaponize elsewhere. So they find spores outside of containment in your lab? "Oh, I had an accidental release a month ago - I got it right away with bleach, so I didn't botehr reporting it. Must have missed some."

Re:How do you spell, TERRORIST?

[xmedar]

He didnt do it, for those who havent been following-

1. Ft. Detrick doesnt have the weaponization capability.

2. Illegal (i.e. violates the Biological Weapons Convention) U.S. offensive anthrax weaponization is run out of Battelle Memorial Institute under Project Jefferson under the DIA.

3. The Anthrax letters were a copy of the CIA operation that used anthrax substitute in their tests.

4. The DIA comes under the DoD, the CIA under the White House, the only place those two mandates meet is at the pleasure of POTUS, like they said about Saddam, he killed his own people.

Re:Conspiracy Theory: Allways kill the assisin

[BobMcD]

Its starting to come together a bit now. Quick, go skim this:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/01/anthrax/index.html

But why use this guy?

What if, and I'm only putting it out there, he was about to come forward about something as-yet undisclosed?

Especially in light of his colleague winning his case and being exonerated, it seems plausible.

He was under pressure from somewhere to do/not do something. What's the most likely thing that could have been?

I can relate...

[Joseph Hayes]

As someone that got his dick caught in a door by some cops using very very shady maneuvers.... The government zealously threatening to ruin your life as you know it can easily lead you to thoughts of suicide. I went as far as carrying a bottle of carbon monoxide and mask around in the spare tire compartment of my car in case things went south quickly during the legal process. I was not about to become someone's bitch for something I didn't even do, and apparently neither was Dr. Ivin. I honestly can't blame him. When I was in that situation suicide seemed like the wisest thing TO do considering how my life would be after going thru the prison system. I kept thinking that if I didn't kill myself now, I'd be sitting in prison, innocent!, and wishing I had. Luckily, I guess you could say, I was able to pay a lawyer THOUSANDS of dollars to eventually get the case thrown out on entrapment (after a year and a half of HELL). When you are a good person and get in a sticky situation with the chips stacked against you.... you mental health turns to the dark side rather quickly. May he rest in peace.

Wars and causus belli in history

[Anonymous Coward]

Government arranging for a causus belli is the traditional way to start wars and drive people to support things. Even Sun Tzu taught this. - Is it so far fetched that the teachings of the holy book of US military might have been used in arranging for "a new Pearl Harbor"?

Apparently to you it is, but also Cheney seems to have done it again, just recently, concerning Iran:

To Provoke War, Cheney Wanted Navy Seals As Iranians

Now, how far fetched is it to bribe an anthrax scientist to send letters and then help cover up the deed inside the investigating team?

Do remember, Dick Cheney went on Cipro a month before the letters started.

Why wait?

[SpaceLifeForm]

In the hopes that people would forget that the bush administration tied the anthrax to Iraq.

If you check out the spin in the headlines , you can already tell that they are trying to convict the dead guy for carrying out the attacks.

In a couple of days or so, they will spin it all as 'case closed', in the hope that everyone forgets the real story.

If the guy had been 'suicided' too early, that would have taken away the talking point that Iraq was behind the anthrax attacks.

Now, that the bush administration has declared 'mission accomplished', it may have been time to clean up loose ends.

</tinfoil>