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Air Force Suspends Cyber Command Program

AFCyber writes "The Air Force on Monday suspended all efforts related to development of a program to become the dominant service in cyberspace, according to knowledgeable sources. Top Air Force officials put a halt to all activities related to the establishment of the Cyber Command, a provisional unit that is currently part of the 8th Air Force at Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana, sources told Nextgov. An internal Air Force e-mail obtained by Nextgov said, 'Transfers of manpower and resources, including activation and re-assignment of units, shall be halted.' Establishment of the Cyber Command will be delayed until new senior Air Force leaders, including Chief of Staff Norton Schwartz, sworn in today, have time to make a final decision on the scope and mission of the command."

45 of 166 comments (clear)

  1. Coincidence? by longacre · · Score: 4, Informative

    Perhaps just coincidence that they shut it down the day after this look inside Cyber Commandwas published online:

    "The black boxes are ClearCube computer terminals, and the fact that there are two of them at each station points to perhaps the most important defensive strategy of the Pentagon's Global Information Gridâ"known to its operators as the GIG. The box on top is plugged into the Nonclassified Internet Protocol Router Network, or NIPRNet, which is linked to the public Internet. The other black box connects to the Secret Internet Protocol Router Network, or SIPRNet, which contains the military's classified information. There are no physical connections between the two anywhere in the Defense Department's 5 millionâ"computer network, yet in the AFNOC, the Ethernet jacks are only 1 1/2 in. apart. That proximity got me wondering. 'What if someone connected them?' I asked information officer 2nd Lt. Mike Forostoski. He laughed in disbelief, as though I had asked him what would happen if a flaming nuclear blimp headed for the building. Then he answered with cautious understatement: 'That would be bad.'

    1. Re:Coincidence? by drspliff · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What a load of rubbish, the black boxen are ClearCube "Digital Fiber C/Port" thin terminals connected to a workstation somewhere in a cabinet, if you were to swap them around you'd have the computer connected to the top-secret network on the other side of your desk.

      It's not like if you did that packets would magically leak out and allow Chinese hackers to read their e-mails...

      This is quite a neat setup because everything can be stored away, centrally managed and physically secured from a single location.

    2. Re:Coincidence? by Lt_Kernal · · Score: 4, Informative

      What a load of crap. There are many multilevel systems that hook to multiple classification networks at the same time. One box, connected to both SIPR, and NIPR, for example.

      Here's one of them, Radiant Mercury: http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/systems/radiant_mercury.htm

      Here's another. DTW, the DoDIIS Trusted Workstation. It has the capabilty to hook up to many networks at the same time, from NIPR to SCI: http://www.sun.com/solutions/documents/business-cases/go_DTW_cc.pdf

      But, hey. Truth doesn't sell magazines, does it? Ironically, the technology that allows more than one classified network to hook to another is pretty freaking awesome. PopMech should take a look at that, instead.

      --
      My posts don't reflect the opinion of my employer, and my employer's opinion doesn't influence the content of my posts.
    3. Re:Coincidence? by TubeSteak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What a load of rubbish, the black boxen are ClearCube "Digital Fiber C/Port" thin terminals connected to a workstation somewhere in a cabinet, if you were to swap them around you'd have the computer connected to the top-secret network on the other side of your desk.

      The question wasn't "what would happen if you swap them around" it was "what would happen if you plugged them into each other with an ethernet cable"

      Why would the SIPRNet box/terminal even have an empty ethernet port?

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    4. Re:Coincidence? by Bugs42 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What worries me far more is that in the picture accompanying that article, the computers are quite obviously running Windows.

      --
      Programmer: an ingenious device that converts caffeine into code.
    5. Re:Coincidence? by Fallon · · Score: 4, Informative

      I have a SIPR machine sitting a foot or 2 away from me right now as I type this on a NIPR machine... SIPR is a completely separate network that never touches the Internet. They both are monitored very heavily and if traffic from one showed up on the other, it would get noticed very quickly and fixed. It would be bad and heads would roll, but it wouldn't be the end of the world.

      The U.S. military world wide has setups not unlike this, it's nothing new in the slightest, along with appropriate systems and procedures to protect them.

  2. The Air Force is doomed by realmolo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    We just don't need them anymore. We have better missiles, and better drones.

    The only thing we need actualy piloted aircraft for are close-in ground support, where things are too crowded/messy for computers to do a good job. And even then, remotely-piloted drones are taking over.

    1. Re:The Air Force is doomed by Red+Flayer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      We just don't need them anymore. We have better missiles, and better drones.

      Reminds me of an old short story I read in the 80s...

      The premise was that two superpowers, in a state of constant war, launch programmed missiles at eachother, since it was decided that manned craft were not necessary, and it was not worth risking pilot lives. However, the defenses for the superpowers were able to adapt quickly, and therefore very few missiles ever got through the defense systems.

      Eventually, one of the superpowers decided to make the missiles human pilotable, in order to defeat the defenses; they lost many pilots on their suicide missiosn, but obliterated their opponent and won the war.

      The point is, human action is less predictable, and harder to defend against.

      Of course, remote piloting and drones provide the capability of human piloting without all the mess of needing to carry meat, but the air force as a separate command is a different issue.

      The Air Force will, IMO, always be needed, if only as a balance to the other two major forces. An additional chain of command leadin to the top means that a different insititionally biased way of thinking comes into play, and it is more likely that a dissenting (but not necessarily wrong) opinion will be heard at the highest level.

      Reducing the number of branches in the command structure will lead to even more institutionalized thinking, which, IMO, would hamper the ability of the military to come to the best solutions to problems it faces.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    2. Re:The Air Force is doomed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      We just don't need them anymore. We have better missiles, and better drones.

      Reminds me of an old short story I read in the 80s...

      "The Feeling of Power" by Isaac Asimov.

    3. Re:The Air Force is doomed by iamweezman · · Score: 2, Informative

      We do have better missiles, and better drones...all flown and developed by the Air Force.

      The AF also controls and commands the AFSCN - the Air Force Satellite Control Network, GPS, and much of the ISR satellites. Flying planes is actually very little of what they do.

    4. Re:The Air Force is doomed by Dun+Malg · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Reducing the number of branches in the command structure will lead to even more institutionalized thinking

      More or fewer branches has little effect on the amount of institutionalized thinking, it just varies the amount of parochialism. The Air Force was formed in 1948 on the premise that the US Army shouldn't be in the business of strategic bombing and air superiority. Unfortunately, the agreement that split the AF off from the Army also forbade the Army to operate aircraft. As a result the Army still has trouble getting the AF to provide adequate close air support. Under consideration at the same time was a proposal to attach the Marine Corps to the Army (where it more logically belongs) and transfer naval aviation assets to Air Force control; but Navy Secretary Forrestal had spent WW2 building up the Navy into his own little self-sufficient kingdom with its own air and ground assets. It's a completely asinine duplication of effort, but he had enough pull to kill the consolidation proposal. As a result of this sort of bureaucratic feudalism, we have:
      4 1/2 air forces
      Air Force, Naval aviation, USMC aviation, Coast Guard aviation, and Army helicopter aviation

      1 1/2 armies
      the real Army, and the Navy's light infantry, the USMC

      2 1/2 navies
      the Navy, the Coast Guard, and all the small watercraft operated by the AF and Army to fill the gaps the Navy won't cover.

      So you see, while splitting up the services seems like it should promote efficiency by allowing each service to specialize, what you end up with is services narrowing their focus to the stuff that's completely "theirs", while neglecting the "overlap" areas where other services need their support. As it turns out, the Army is inevitably the biggest loser in all of this. They are the backbone of any sizable conflict, but can't get decent close air support or timely theater airlift support from the Air Force, and are forbidden by law to provide it for themselves. Likewise they can't get theater level waterborne transport from the Navy. Meanwhile, naval aviators whine about the Air Force getting to drop all the bombs in Iraq, when the justification for having them flying over Iraq is already weak at best. Then there's the USMC lobbying to be given sole operational responsibility over Afghanistan because they want to get out of Iraq, as their tactics there have only resulted in a greater casualty rate, rather than "upstaging" the Army as is their normal goal.

      The root of the problem is that all the branches are run by politicians. They may wear uniforms full of ribbons and stars, but they're no different than your typical pork-barrel politician. They're always looking for some way to expand their power base so they can justify a bigger bite of the defense "pie". This silly Air Force "Cyber Command" is just more of the same. The Air Force hasn't a single justification in its charter for claiming "cyberspace" as their own, but they hope to get it by virtue of being the only service with applicable combat assets in-theater when the time comes to decide whose responsibility it is. Frankly, I think the military is ill suited to the job. I reckon the NSA is the better tool for the job. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point the Air Force was told "your Cyber Command is a needless duplication of assets already fielded by the NSA--- kill it". Heck, they may have been told that already...

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
  3. Missing out by perffectworld · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A lot to be learned right now on cyberwar from Russia.

  4. profit! by n3tcat · · Score: 5, Funny

    Step 1) Release public statement regarding creation of cyber command to all nerd websites
    Step 2) Recruit all the nerds that got interested in step 1
    Step 3) Publicly announce the cancellation of the project
    Step 4) Continu.......

    (Connection Terminated)

    1. Re:profit! by JustOK · · Score: 2, Funny

      Step 6) Wonder why all those nerds suddenly got promoted to Air Marshall based on their marks stored in the computer

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
  5. I wondered about this by R2.0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why the Air Force? It seems like such a reach outside their normal scope. I would think that the Army would be the proper place for such a command.

    Of course, the Air Force should never have been split off from the Army to begin with; they should have told Curtiss LeMay to go get bent when they still had the chance.

    --
    "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    1. Re:I wondered about this by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Ummm... Wi-Fi and Satellite. Yea it kinda vague. I think the air force had more command experience with high end technology. I much rather be in the air force in a nice chair doing my code then in the army in a tent with a laptop, trying to setup a network connection with the chances there are people who want to shoot me.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:I wondered about this by Gilmoure · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In basic training ('87): We are the button pushers, we have the bomb!

      -welcoming speech by TI

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    3. Re:I wondered about this by Dun+Malg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wow, given your description, it's a miracle the AF hasn't nuked the our own country into oblivion yet since it's clearly all filled with dumbasses while the army is loaded with geniuses. I never would have guessed it given that the AF has a higher standard for ASVAB scores and education than the Army. Not that you're biased or anything...

      His post is a bit extreme--- and undoubtedly hyperbole--- but having been in the Army myself, I know exactly what he's talking about. The Air Force is, in a way, a sort of "Bizarro World" armed service. The vast majority of AF personnel are non-combat, pure support staff. Subsequently, AF basic training is largely devoid of purpose. Army and Marine Corps training are both based on (to varying degrees) the "infantryman/rifleman first" theory, and even Navy personnel have to learn the basics of the rather serious business of surviving shipboard combat. Army, Navy, and Marine Corps enlistees need to possess a certain degree of drive, discipline, and maturity to get through such training. This tends to weed out the lazy, slack, and childish ones early on. Air Force basic training consists mostly of learning to make your bed and march in a straight line. The road marches, bayonet fighting, shipboard rescue, and the like just aren't there. It does require something to get through Air Force basic, getting up early 6 days a week and exercising regularly; but it just doesn't require as much of it as the other services training does.

      The practical upshot of all of this is that by the time enlistees get to their advanced training, you're going to see a lot more wrinkled shirts and immaturity among the Air Force folks. This isn't just anecdotal, it's universally recognized. Lots of Air Force guys won't admit it or might not even realize it, for that matter; but ask any member of the Army, Navy, or USMC who's served in a multiservice environment which service has the most goofballs, dingbats, and "ragbags", and you'll nearly always get the same answer: the Air Force. It's just the nature of the training. I served with plenty of sharp, squared away Air Force personnel, but there were a lot of exasperating dweebs too. It's nothing inherently wrong with the Air Force per se, it's more of a lack of purpose to the initial training.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
  6. disaster by Peter+La+Casse · · Score: 5, Funny

    This is a potential disaster. Millions, or even billions, of cyber warfare dollars are at stake that cannot be allowed to fall into the hands of the Army or Navy.

    1. Re:disaster by drspliff · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yes, leave some of those monies for poor little phishers and hacking groups like us :)

  7. Translation by religious+freak · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Some old fuck that doesn't understand tech probably got wind of the idea and shut it down because he doesn't understand it.

    So much for optimism in this arena.

    --
    If you can read this... 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011
    1. Re:Translation by sholsinger · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Negative. Their mission must be clearly defined before they can proceed with that mission. If the mission isn't clearly defined, well... then they have no real bounds to what they can do. And the ClearCube boxen are part of a military-wide shift to thin client computing.

      Not to mention without a clearly defined mission they could possibly step on toes of other similar divisions within other military branches. Even though they may not actually exist yet. This would be a large concern.

      I agree with other posters that this should be a consolidated effort. Perhaps a new branch even.

      Additionally the issues raised about SIPRNET and NIPRNET being physically close to each other has absolutely no merit. The SIPRNET network hardware is likely to be located in an entirely different building/room than the NIPRNET hardware. Which would be further physically secured than the NIPRNET hardware even. Although both would be physically secured. Not to mention that the users would probably have a separate smart card to authenticate themselves to each network.

  8. Air Force losing relevance? by BitterOldGUy · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Philip Coyle, senior adviser with the Center for Defense Information, a security policy research group in Washington, said he believes the Navyâ(TM)s Network Warfare Command and the Space and Naval Warfare Systems Center have led the way in cyberspace. The Army engages in cyberspace operations daily in Afghanistan and Iraq, said Coyle, who served as assistant secretary of Defense and director of its operational test and evaluation office from 1994 to 2001.

    I've never understood why the Air Force had to be split from the Army. It just ads more bureaucracy and as a result more overhead and costs to the taxpayer. I don't see any reason to keep the Air Force as a separate branch anymore. It should be folded back into the Army.

    I think it would also improve its effectiveness. I'm greatly impressed with the air and ground integration of the Marines which, from what I've read, is lacking with the Air Force and Army. Reading some military history, many battlefield problems were the direct result of the lack of communication between ground and air: Has to go up one chain of command (Army), then over and down the other chain of command.

    And now with "Cyber warfare", the other branches are currently doing the job; whereas, the Air Force is just getting started. WTF were they doing the last decade?

    At least this is the way I perceive it.

    1. Re:Air Force losing relevance? by Red+Flayer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It just ads more bureaucracy and as a result more overhead and costs to the taxpayer. I don't see any reason to keep the Air Force as a separate branch anymore. It should be folded back into the Army.

      Well, I stated my reasoning in another post in this thread, but did not explain it well or clearly, so apologies for some repeated material...

      The military, as an institution, is pretty resistant to divergent thinking. People complain about the groupthink here at slashdot, but I imagine anyone with military experience would snigger at what gets called groupthink here.

      The one thing that the Air Force provides that cannot be done by another branch of the military is an external thoughtline. The extra branch of the military creates more opportunity for different opinions, different strategies, and different analyses of strategies. It allows the high command an extra input for decision-making.

      The downside of having the Air Force conatained within other branches is that it risks being a bastard stepchild, neglected for surface vessels and ground units. The Air Force has been a deciding factor in a lot of engagements, and I question whether the Navy's air capability would be anywhere close to what it is now without the Air Force looking over its shoulder. Having the Air Force as a separate branch has allowed, and will continue to allow, lots of focus on ensuring we use our air capability effectively, and continue to develop new capability.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
  9. oblig by owlnation · · Score: 2, Funny

    All your base are belong to them.

  10. One China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why step down our efforts just as China is ramping up theirs?

  11. Dismantle? No way, now its a black program. by molo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think this is more likely a response to the Georgia-Russia "cyberwar". Having a public cyberwar program invites others to do so and provides a way to study and attack your program.

    I think now this will be a black program to avoid drawing attention. They are probably doing this to prevent others from learning from our public information.

    -molo

    --
    Using your sig line to advertise for friends is lame.
  12. WTF Air Force has to do with Cyber Security by D3 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Look at the background of some of the prominent folks in the IT Security field. People like Ron Gula (Dragon IDS, Tenable) came from an AF background. The AF has some very smart people (smart enough to join the AF and not get shot at) with lots of strong ties to NSA. That is why they should be heading up military presence in cyberspace.

    --
    Do really dense people warp space more than others?
  13. they disbanded due to laughter by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 5, Funny
    They would walk around the halls with their fist at their waists, and heads looking upward and off to the side and periodically bark nonsense like:

    I'm Captain John Doe of... (then look off in the other direction) THE CYBER COMMAND!!!!

    When people from other parts of the building would ask them - "hey where do you guys work?" They would, in unison, put their fist at their waists, look up to the left and say "We work for..." and then look in the other direction and shout "CYBER COMMAND!!!!"

    And then promptly burst into fits of giggling...

    The whole idea was so stupid they couldn't stand themselves - it was like Buck Rogers without the cool costumes. They all knew the Real Heavy Lifting was being done at the NSA, and this was just an offshoot of the White House being a bunch of paranoid dicks who didn't trust the Pentagon brass, especially after they consistently scolded the WH upon retiring - combined with forces within the Air Force looking for relevance when clearly the future belongs to drones.

    Other than mobile airbases (ACC's) I don't even understand why you need people on boats, for the most part... The only military than can't be replaced with machines and "at a distance" command is infantry.

    CYBER COMMAND!!!!

    BWAHAHAAAAAA...

    RS

    --
    Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
  14. Re:What a waste! by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Funny

    Did they ask any of the five people running for President what their opinion on it was?

    Five people? Did your reality filter break again or do you just need new glasses?

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  15. Momumentallty stupid by Enderandrew · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I say that without fear of hyperbole. Perhaps senior command missed how Al Qaeda is running circles around us online, how China bats around like a cat toy in cyber-space, and how even Georgia and Russia are firmly entrenched in cyber-war right now.

    The US has more to lose in a cyber-war than our enemies, we're more vulnerable, and we're not even going to try and focus on that battlefield.

    Monumentally stupid.

    --
    http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
  16. Re:What a waste! by MightyYar · · Score: 2, Funny

    any of the five people running for President

    I really don't think that it's fair that you single out the top 5 people running for president. There are at least 13 people running - at least according to Wikipedia.

    I mean, last time 'round 3rd party candidates scored huge wins. Few people are aware that the Prohibition Party scored almost 2000 votes in the last presidential election!

    </sarcasm>

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  17. Outsourcing by robmv · · Score: 5, Funny

    they will announce tomorrow the outsourcing of the Cyber Command operations to India

  18. Amateurs by 0racle · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Air Force Suspends Cyber Command Program

    It's THEM. This is just what they WANT you to believe.

    --
    "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
  19. Re:Dismantle? No way, now its a black program. by auric_dude · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Another view of things http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/08/air-force-suspe.html but if things turn black will we ever know?

  20. A job for Homeland Security? by Mizchief · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Not that I agree in the formation of the Department of Homeland Security, now that it is created shouldn't a "Cyber Command" be under it's jurisdiction for protecting the US military and commertial IT infrastructure? Offensive cyberwarfare should be an integrated tool in all of the millitary branches.

  21. As the saying goes... by WDancer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We are always prepared to fight the previous war. If the US ever goes against any country with a significant tech base, we will not be prepared. To be fair, though, the US is prepared to fight without the internet, it will just be an inconvenience. The Future Warrior program was supposed to rely heavily on digital information systems, but it is now mostly canceled. The military is still using the same methods they did in the 80's and 90's (dedicated sat-links and voice channels)before the net got so integrated into daily life. The real problem would be on the civilian front where massive cyber-attacks could blackout good-sized chunks of infrastructure. But, the civilian sector already has to deal with that from botnets attacking a company's online presence to coerce money out of them. Therefore, there is already defenses being designed to combat this. Maybe the military is just going to keep things totally separated from the net to make it hard for any attack to even start to cause problems.

    1. Re:As the saying goes... by Stray7Xi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      To be fair, though, the US is prepared to fight without the internet, it will just be an inconvenience. The Future Warrior program was supposed to rely heavily on digital information systems, but it is now mostly canceled. The military is still using the same methods they did in the 80's and 90's (dedicated sat-links and voice channels)before the net got so integrated into daily life. The real problem would be on the civilian front where massive cyber-attacks could blackout good-sized chunks of infrastructure.

      It's worse then that, you're thinking only of warfighting elements of military life. How do you think the military would fare if its pay system was shut down? Do you think they have a backup system ready that isn't computerized? Okay they're military, you can compel them to work until the pay issues get sorted... but what about all the elements that moved to contractors, such as gate guards?

      And I'm still assuming they're only targeting military. Our whole economy is completely dependent on computers and telecommunications. If a true all out cyber-war was conducted I have no doubt many people will die. Perhaps simply because they were unable to call 911 because the cell system was out of service.

  22. Complete Waste of Time by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In six months, Obama will be president, and this program will get changed yet again by yet another chief.

    Since every Bush "Cybersecurity Czar" has resigned in disgust since Bush created the office, that entire program will also have to be ripped out, too.

    America's Internet defense system also has to protect us from nonmilitary lawbreakers like phishers, crackers and leakers. Plus those somewhere between, like the Russian mob crackers who joined Russia's government to attack Georgia this week, but spend most of their time just breaking banks and extorting corporations and individuals.

    I'm really glad that we're going to get a new president who's actually smart for a change. We're really dodging a bullet with the Internet-illiterate WcCain offering a third term of Bush's catastrophic failures to protect anything except his own ass. Heckuva job, brownnose!

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  23. Sadness for Shreveport/Bossier by dragonxtc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is sad for the North-Western part of Louisiana, which is where I live and where Cyber Space Command was supposed to be put into place at Barksdale. I know many of the local universities have been pushing hard to put toghether cyber security circulums etc to give those in the local community a chance to work at this place once it was constructed. While I am sure it is not all for naught I do imagine a lot of time and money will have been wasted in the community by people other than the air force that were counting on this as a new job market especially with the layoffs we are having at our local GM plant and many other factories ( Not that the same people would work at these places )

  24. Doomed? Yes and No by DesScorp · · Score: 2, Interesting

    We just don't need them anymore. We have better missiles, and better drones.

    The only thing we need actually piloted aircraft for are close-in ground support, where things are too crowded/messy for computers to do a good job. And even then, remotely-piloted drones are taking over.

    First, we're a long way off from being able to turn airpower completely over to robotic drones.

    Second, I think you touched on the real question while missing the larger point... we're always going to need airpower... the military projection of power via aerial weapons. The question is, why do we need an Air Force? Why do we need an individual military branch with an identity based on airpower, when airpower is simply one facet of warfare that all branches need? The Navy has their own aircraft because oceans have skies over them too.

      To me, splitting the Air Force from the Army was like establishing a separate military branch just for armor, or establishing an independent infantry branch. Why? What makes it imperitive to seperate airpower from ground power over the land? We did just fine with the Army Air Corps being a part of a larger Army. Ask any soldier, especially career soldier, and they'll likely complain about how USAF puts such a low priority on boring ground support missions... they aren't sexy enough to sell on recruiting posters.

    Just as the Marines are tied at the hip to the Navy, the Air Force should more or less be a part of the Army. We don't live in castles in the sky. We live here on the ground, and ultimately, any air force's job is to support objectives on the ground when things are said and done. We have air superiority fighters because we don't want the enemy's aircraft hurting our guys on the ground.

    I think our previous model of splitting defense responsibilities via geography between the Army and the Navy was a better model than our current one, with the Air Corps (or Army Air Forces, if you will) and the Marine Corps subordinate to their larger sister services. USAF went independent because of the argument that airpower in and of itself should fight separately, which was an outgrowth of Billy Mitchell's ideas. The problem is that Mitchell was wrong about a lot of things. He thought armies and navies were largely obsolete, and history has proven him wrong on that.

    Airpower is just a tool, one that can be used by any branch. It doesn't justify a separate service, with all its associated costs duplication. Should we establish a separate service for submarines just because they're under the water? Of course not. Why establish a separate service just for airplanes?

    --
    Life is hard, and the world is cruel
  25. Home of the "Cybercommand"? by DesScorp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why the Air Force? It seems like such a reach outside their normal scope. I would think that the Army would be the proper place for such a command.

    The whole "Cybercommand" thing was yet another attempt by USAF to dominate an emerging military technology. It was a power grab. After WW II, they argued against other services having airplanes. They managed to get missiles and fixed wing aircraft taken away from the Army. They got the Army's Cheyenne gunship helicopter killed because it looked too much like a fighter plane. In Vietnam, they got SecDef McNamera to issue an order stating that Marine F-4's were to be limited to ground attack only... the fighter mission inland was for USAF alone. They could defend themselves if attacked by MiGs, but could not go MiG hunting on their own. Last year they tried to monopolize robotic aerial drones. And Cybercommand tried to monopolize military computer ops. USAF has a long history of not only protecting their turf, but moving in on others if it benefitted them. They have a reputation for arrogance. The Air Force Association's description of the branch was "first among equals"... as if any such thing could really exist.

    Just like any other military tactic or technology... intelligence, airpower, any single military technology... each service should have their own "cybercommand", with a unifying leadership and authority over all branches at DOD. And I think we're heading in that direction, with SecDef Gates sacking the USAF leadership recently. There was a lot of resentment in the other branches at the Blues' attempt to hog the cyber mission, and I think this stand down is at least partly attributable to Gates trying to bring USAF leadership back on the reservation and play nice with the other kids.

    --
    Life is hard, and the world is cruel
  26. Re:What a waste! by sm62704 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Actually, "Mighty Yar" is right when (s)he says "There are at least 13 people running - at least according to Wikipedia".

    I found a large list that is broken into the two major parties - the Democrats and Republicans; the three major "third parties" - the Libertarians, the Greens, and the Constitution Party. There are a long list of other paties running.

    The corporate media tells you that a vote for anyone but a Republican or Democrat is wasted because the others have no chance of winning. Well, since I think Obama has no chance of winning I should go ahead and vote for McCain? That's just retarded!

    The Democrats and Republicans are all solidly for the Bono Act (AKA the "steamboat willie preservation act"), DMCA, PATRIOT act, FISA; are for outlawing drugs, prostitution, and gambling, while I am against all of these things.

    Why should I waste my vote on a candidate whose views are diametrically opposed to my own?

    I know the Libertarians are on the ballot in 49 states, and IINM the other two "third parties" are on the ballot in enough states to win should they carry them.

    Right now the only major party candidate in any race I can in good conscience vote for is Dick Durbin.

    --
    mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  27. On Hold Because... by Gallenod · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think AFCyber may just be on hold because a new Chief of Staff of the Air Force started work yesterday and he want to see what this is before it goes any further. It's likely this may be part of a larger review of all the services cyber-warfare programs to make sure they don't overlap or compete in the same space.

    Also, this new CoS isn't a fighter pilot like the last 20 years of AF leadership, he's a special ops guy who flew cargo aircraft. He's probably more interested in business management than flash and, with a special ops background, may belive that if you're going to build a secret ninja hacker cyberforce, you might want to do it with a somewhat lower public profile.

    --

    TLR

    A man no more knows his destiny than a tea leaf knows the history of the East India Company
  28. They need them to help with the Stargate program by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 3, Funny

    and this is a cover