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Photographers Face Ejection Over Lenses
destinyland writes "Zooomr CEO Thomas Hawk was ejected from a San Francisco art museum because the security guard apparently thought his expensive camera could be used to spy on female employees. Another photographer notes that 'many people consider a professional-looking camera a threat,' and the state of California has even passed a law against telephoto lenses being used to intrude on celebrities' private lives. Hawk is routinely confronting security guards who argue that photographing their buildings represents a 'security threat.' Ironically, four weeks ago while attending Microsoft's Pro Photo Summit, he was told he couldn't even photograph the lobby of a Hyatt Hotel."
I was stopped on Christmas Holiday day in Chicago's downtown Ogilvie Transportation Center, the terminal where half the commuter trains come and go. I was firmly admonished to cease and desist taking pictures of my girlfriend in fromt of a Christmas Display in front of one of the stored at the center. I joked that the camera had no film (get it, digital, ha-ha), but the security officer was not amused and said he would have to take my camera and arrest me if I took any more pictures. WTH?
I understand security is an issue, and scary stuff has happened, but stopping people from enjoying their holidays this way doesn't improve or increase our security a whit. Nada, Zip! If someone wants the information about what a building looks like, it's certainly easy to do on the covert. But, it's probably not even necessary, as blueprints and photos exist on the internet for any target one might find interesting.
This, in some oblique way is a victory for terrorists, they've cowed us into being such pussies that we no longer can live day to day and enjoy things freely as we should be able. Annoying. Frustrating. Embarrassing.
Have similar things happen to me while trying to get picture even outside of few building in and around NYC.
Have also seen security guards running after somebody whenever they notice them taking pictures of the buildings.
I am all the more concerned about this because on top of carrying a dSLR, I am also an immigrant and my skin color differs from the locals. That's one of the mains reasons I never got into public photography.
I am all the more concerned about this because on top of carrying a dSLR, I am also an immigrant and my skin color differs from the locals. That's one of the mains reasons I never got into public photography.
I'm so sorry about that. One shouldn't have to sacrifice their dreams for this shit.
Maybe there should be flash mobs of people going into public areas and taking a bunch of pictures to raise awareness about the change in policy due to 9/11.
Security guards on private property only have you the power to leave and, if you refuse, escort you from the premises. So, if they fuck with you, that's what you should say... "are you asking me to leave?".. as soon as they say no, you just say oh ok, thanks for the advice on your corporate policy. And hey, getting ejected from some random private property because you refuse to conform with their corporate policy is hardly something to be shameful about.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Just print out a real looking press badge, and put it in a plastic protector on a lanyard an put that around your neck. They'll let you take all the pictures you want. People like that are suckers for anything looks like authority. They'll only harass people that they think have none.
I'm professional photographer and it is more dificult actually take photographs on public places when you are using dSLR camera, because normal humans believe that photos goes right away to news papers etc.
But these days you can buy compact cameras what are actually better than dSLR on normal use, like camera what shutter speed is 40'000/1 and you can take 60 FPS on 6Mpix. Or you can have camera what has 28-420mm (35mm) objective with 10-12Mpix.
You dont get dSLR inside to music concert if you dont have press card, because guards takes your camera away because you cant take photos without permission of the show. But they dont stop you taking inside these ultra-compact cameras what has bigger zoom on them, what would mean that you need to carry a huge zoom lens if using dSLR.
This is now actually gone too far away, it is harder to take even document photos on streets without someone coming to yell to you that they dont like to be in photos. And it was hard enough ten years ago to tell some people that I dont need to remove photos if I take them on public places and they are not in embarrassed situation. Now it is almost impossible to tell someone that I HAVE rights to take photos on public place, and I can remove them if I want to please them, but if they come to yell to me, I'm bretty sure that I do opposite thing and I dont remove them.
I never shoot people in embarrassed situation, but when people just sees the dSLR, reaction for it is more like someone would say "We must support communistic party" in U.S on the 4th july.
But I can take photos easily without problems when using pocket or compact camera what has bigger zoom and more megapixels than my dSRL.
I own a Canon EOS 5D and a few lenses, one of them is a fairly large 70-200mm f2.8L. I usually bring it to outdoor events that my younger family members might be in (sports, graduation, anything where I'll be far from what I'm trying to shoot) and I always feel like people think I'm a creep. They see the huge camera and think "I hope he's not taking pictures of MY kid!"
I think people have an idea from movies that the bad guys always have some huge fancy cameras and they need to take dozens of photos before they can do their evil deeds. I don't think they realize there already exist hundreds of photos of any potential targets online, and someone would be better off with a small concealable camera, or even a hidden video camera recording the area as you go around.
There's so much paranoia about cameras, and this isn't just because of 9/11. It's been illegal to photograph the Verrazano bridge from on the bridge or at the toll booths for years before 9/11. I've almost had a camera confiscated taking a photo at the toll booth of a man on a motorcycle waving his ezpass around trying to get it to read.
I think there's something that's missed in all these discussions of photographers' rights: Why *do* people feel threatened by photography?
It seems that just about everyone feels anxious about being photographed by strangers: police, security guards, but even (most?) regular people.
Why? Is it a fear that somehow the photos can be used to cause actual harm? Is it the fear that a stranger photographing you can only be up to no good, even if you're not sure if/how he'd use the photos to harm you? Is it the fear that with so many laws on the books, just about anything you're doing is illegal, and photos can be used to help convict you?
There was a security guard yelling at people at 1 Wall Street when I visited NYC 2 weeks ago. If people took pictures he'd walk across the street "No pictures" and then harass them into leaving.
If my aunts would have walked slower I would have pushed the "Public place" policy. Hell If you were shooting down the street at the church you'd get a good portion of the building in the shot. Not to mention it's up in google street views (What idiot decided shooting street views at night was a good idea).
If he's only a security guard as soon as he leaves that buildings property he's "out of his jurisdiction"
Shortly after 9/11 (Oct. 2001) a security guard at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC issued me a pass to carry all of my photography equipment (ok, no tripod or lights, just an SLR body and about 5 lenses in a Lowepro) throughout the museum. And I didn't need to ask for it: he just signed off on it when he saw I had the equipment.
This is absolutely awful.
However, it's not limited to people of darker pigmentation of skin. I had some douche security guard accost me for having a camera at Mt. Tabor Park here in Portland, and I'm as white as they come.
I can't imagine why anyone would want to take a camera here...
Needless to say, I gave him the standard "am I under arrest? No? Then you don't get to see my camera, and you don't get to stop be from being in this publicly owned park unless you like Title 42 lawsuits."
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
If I could mod you to +1000, I'd do so.
For folks who don't realize how much so Quantum is dead on:
If you watch the improv everywhere group when they did the best buy stunt (linked), they explicitly ask the officers this when they try to threaten people. They say "are you asking me to leave" and "do you have the authority to ask me to leave?" after every time they are threatened with "this is illegal/not allowed".
From the link (the important part when people threaten about legality):
Agent Shafer confidently informed the cops that it was not, in fact, "illegal" to film in Best Buy and that they couldnâ(TM)t accuse him of trespassing until he had been asked to leave the store. He pointed out that he was perfectly willing to leave. A manger told Agent Shafer, "I don't come to your house and film you," to which he replied, "Who lives here?" The cops argued for a bit, but finally realized there was nothing they could do. They let the cameramen go and informed the manager, "The worst you can do is ask them to leave."
Also, the second rule of anything legal but people bullshit that it's not:never do something alone and never respond to any question an officer asks you at all. All things are "I don't know/I don't have an answer". Providing any answers = incriminating yourself and waiving your 5th amendment rights.
My husband was taking pictures of some industrial building (as reference for use in his model train layout in the future) when a security guard came puffing over the hill and demanded that he hand over the camera. Wisely, my husband said no.
The security guard was shocked and then demanded that my husband hand over the film. This was a digital camera. So he said no.
Once the guard realized it was digital he demanded that my husband delete ALL the pictures in the camera.
At this point my husband just walked away, leaving the guard standing there looking very upset that he couldn't do anything.
I will elaborate that my husband was on a public road, not on the private property, so trespassing would not apply. He was taking a picture of a building clearly visible to the public.
Even if the security guard had been a law officer (which they're not, no matter how much they want to be treated as such) there is nothing that will prevent you from taking pictures in public. There is no guarantee of privacy when you're in a public place. If he had planned on publishing the photos then there might be issues with people in the pictures but a picture of a building isn't protected.*
* I know there were some lawsuits in Chicago about people taking pictures of the sculptures displayed in Millenium Park and the artists were getting up in arms about their 'copyrighted works' being misued. I believe that went nowhere but this being Slashdot someone will come along with more information. If there is more information,
What your quick analysis (and the witness's comment) miss is that the lens in question was a 14mm prime, a super-wide-angle lens. It's about two inches long and wide--meaning it looks like the furthest thing from a zoom lens, or a long lens meant for getting close up shots.
An intelligent guard would have 1) known this, or 2) looked at the photographs on the camera, and seen that these were wide-angle crowd shots, not cleavage-stalking nn pr0n. Had an intelligent guard handled the situation, a publicity seeking ZOMGOppression! dick like Thomas Hart wouldn't have had an excuse for another round of "the man is keeping me down!"
Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
There may be some exceptions to this rule. For example, a Houston tourist was arrested in Austin for photographing two topless women in public. However that arrest is being fought using the logic that "being in a public place implicitly gives consent to being photographed."
This is interesting to me because on my drive to work today I saw 2 guys sitting on a sidewalk downtown with a video camera set up on a tripod next to them which I guessed was for a film project or something, but the thought crossed my mind "I wonder if they're planning something Evil(tm)?"
Now as a semi-thinking human being I immediately sent that stupid thought packing, but the fact that it crossed my mind is indicative of the level of bombardment we have been dished with by our media and government about how we should live in fear (and I barely watch TV news or read mainstream papers).
I wouldn't say the terr'wrists have won, but once enough of society gets to the point where we won't fight the powers that be as they slowly whittle away at our freedoms, it's pretty fair to say that they are winning thus far. There's always hope though.
careful observation and critiques of human nature always seem somewhat prophetic. Turns out that being human is pretty predictable.
No they don't (just), stop perpetuating THAT lie.
Their religious people are as crazy as ours. Our crazies (Cat-licks, etc) want everyone in the world to join their religion. That's why our (Western) past has so many religious wars - as everyone fought for and achieved some piece (even if only an armed stand-off) between the sky-fairy factions. When one of these groups arms itself, it has generally gone to war in the name of establishing its religious dominion. Ditto Mohamadanians.
Militant muslims *are* trying to convert everyone in the world - or kill them trying. Like many other religions have been trying since their inception.
Once you believe in a magical man in space who brings us all back to life (the good ones anyways) it's not a big stretch to believe he needs the souls of the unbelievers. And that it's not a (real) crime to do it.
If nobody was religious and I produced a Koran, or Bible, and professed to believe in it more than life itself, I would be called crazy. But with this nonsense floating around everywhere nobody sees it for what it is: A batshit insane persons manifesto for controlling the world through violence and brainwashing.
Osama BL's a self-declared devout follower of this "cleanse the unbeliever nonsense". His stated goal might be the USA out of SA, and that may even honestly be the biggest thing on his radar, but that doesn't mean that his religion hasn't taught him (and 50% of the co-religious populations who support him) to use violence to keep going that extra step and just deal with us unbelievers once and for all.
Admit it, if OBL won a military victory over anyone, they'd be under space-ghost law the next day, having heads lopped off for talking to women. Taliban style. (Which is Chinese style, with more sex-crime craziness and no organ harvesting.)
The fact that a religious murderer desires a certain political outcome does not imply that his violence will stop if he gets it. In fact, winning has a way of encouraging people. Today it's the USA out of SA, tomorrow what, Jews out of the world?