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Dell's Subnotebook To Ship With Ubuntu
k33l0r writes "Dell's entry into the sub-notebook market, the Inspiron 910, will ship with Ubuntu preinstalled. This was confirmed this morning when Gizmodo published (leaked) specifications for the Inspiron 910." I hope that's not the final form of the keyboard, though -- lots of wasted space on each side.
I wish my EEE 901 had shipped with ubuntu too, instead of Xandros.
Not that it's bad for beginners, but I'm not sure I want such a toy OS. I know Ubuntu eee exists, but I'd musch rather have the official distro. Or debian...
Items of interest (to me at least): 8.9" WSVGA TL 1024x600 (WLED) screen 2.20 lbs w/ 4-cell battery Bluetooth via mini-card (apparently not included) CPU 1.6 GHz, 533 MHz, 512K single core Intel Atom N270 Diamondville Thanks. Hope it does come in at the $299 price...
Get it? Sub notebook?
Oh, alright! I'm going back to work...well, I'll just pretend I have work.
I hope that's not the final form of the keyboard, though -- lots of wasted space on each side
I reckon it IS the final look, given it's true what the source cited in the article says, and the thing is shipping next Friday.
Anyway, you can use that space for a couple stickers...
Dawkins Revisited: A person is shit's way of making more shit -- Steve Barnett, anthropologist.
I have an 8.9" eee pc running on the Intel Mobile Processor (read Celeron). I have both Ubuntu and XP running on dual boot but use Ubuntu more than often. XP is still **very** slow on the laptop and there is continuous disk activity while running it.
Help a man when he is in trouble and he will remember you when he is in trouble again.
This would seem a lot neater, if not more worth while, if it had a dock option. I just look at what HP did with the 1100 tablet and it's dock and think that they had the right idea with some slight short comings. Something in the same vein could have been done with this.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
The wasted space isn't the only problem. What's worse (and far, far worse IMHO) is the way the keyboard is laid out. The 3rd row down is placed too far to the left - the A and Q almost line up. Caps-Lock is WAY too short, and enter is too wide. Bit of the inverse of the crap Apple once pulled off. To add insult to injury, the >, <, ? and " keys have a different size.
Really, I'd run away from that keyboard FAST.
Of course it will, but at least you can seek better paid support elsewhere (Canonical) or indeed the quite excellent ubuntuforums.org for free. I love the way the UMPC market is exposing Linux to people who would never have heard of it otherwise, there was even an MS spokesdrone in our local computing press saying that "Yes, the Linux option is suitable for beginners but experienced users would prefer the Windows option on the EEE", laugh, I nearly wet myself.
"Linux is for noobs"-The new MS fud strategy
...then print Tux on that silly windows key please?
Might be obvious, but a little googling is all it takes to put Ubuntu on an EEE. Edubuntu 7.10 installed on mine with no real problems. But for normal people, yes it would be nice if it came preinstalled. The Intel Classmate comes with a version of Edubuntu 8.04 from Go2PC that is getting more stable every day. This may be Ubuntu's market if they can sign up more OEM's.
Maybe you posted as an AC just to get a quick jab in but I would pose that question seriously.
It seems that, with the gadget crowd, Linux support is always sweet in the beginning as they oogle over the new machine but as soon as something new comes out the old gadget is left to collect dust. Suddenly Ubuntu moves on a version or two and people still running the old gadget are left in no man's land with support issues. The people who really understand Linux are too busy with the new gadget to support the old. It's the long term user who's left holding the bag.
Will Dell continue to support this as the distro progresses or should the unit come with a sticker warning the user not to upgrade beyond the current version? It's kind of burned my ass the number of times I tried to pull some older gadgets over to Linux only to find that if I use the distro's 2 or 3 year old package I was fine but if I wanted the latest and greatest I was busied with the work of just getting basic functionality going. The upgrade cycle concerns me too much in some cases to give Linux a try if the only support I have is community based.
I likely will not go "100%" Linux for a long long time. Most of it has to do with working in a Windows shop and, frankly, liking my games. But even if that wasn't an issue I still haven't warmed up to the community support aspect.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
I'm involved with a fairly large Linux desktop deployment and I've noticed that whenever a blog post or article is posted for desktop Linux, a lot of MS apologist come in stating that Windows is a better deeper experience and you are shortchanging your students/workers by giving them Linux. While I'm a Linux zealot, I am willing to deploy Windows and MAC when I need to and it makes since from a performance/cost perspective. I don't believe this is a paid guerrilla advertising campaign from MS, but suspect that a lot of small ISV's that tied their livelihood to supporting Windows installations are nervous about the growing market share of Linux. It might be less than 1% of the market, but start paying attention when you walk into a call center, retail store, hospital or school. Actually paying attention may not be enough because they are well camouflaged.
Mandriva supports the Eee PC directly. Just get the latest version and install it. No big deal.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Experienced users are indeed more likely to prefer the Windows option -- as long as they are experienced as in they have Windows experience.
And Windows users who try to use their existing skills and habits generally also find themselves having many issues. In fact, Windows "Power Users" frequently have more problems with Linux than people with little or no computer experience, for this very reason. Typically, the most vehement "Linux is not ready for the desktop yet" arguments come from ingrained Windows users who reason that if they couldn't make the switch, a less-experienced user has no chance. But this is the exact opposite of the truth.
http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
When ideas fail, words become very handy.
I reckon a nootbook, or even a subnootbook, is a bit more than just a "gadget". Its in both the interest of people working on Ubuntu, and companies like Dell who use their product, to keep functionality going.
While the community based support for Linux have always been enough to cover my needs; there are a number of people offering Linux support who is more than willing to take your money and give you all the additional help you would require.
With the Open Source community continuing to grow I am certain it is only a matter of time until Linux gets the recognition it is beginning to deserve.
The Long Now Foundation
A gadget like this doesn't need support. You install Linux and then you leave it alone - don't fix it if it ain't broke. It will keep running for many years and keep working just like the day you bought it.
How often do you update the software in your refrigerator?
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
I likely will not go "100%" Linux for a long long time. Most of it has to do with working in a Windows shop and, frankly, liking my games.
Well that's clearly a non-argument.
"sudo apt-get install pixfrogger" should satisfy any gamer's needs for a lifetime.
There's actually a pretty widespread problem upgrading to Hardy, where it hangs at "generating locales". In fact, in Firefox, if you select Google from the search at the top right, start to type "ubuntu upgrade", then scroll down, you should see both "ubuntu upgrade stuck generating locales" and "ubuntu upgrade locales" out of the roughly 10 suggested searches. (not my searches, the suggested ones.)
You a little deliberately short on specifics, your comment might be worthwhile if you were able to pinpoint a device that shipped with Linux on it where the creator of that product has dropped support, but is still around. Even so, you're still very vague with what's supported or not.
It seems that, with the gadget crowd, Linux support is always sweet in the beginning as they oogle over the new machine but as soon as something new comes out the old gadget is left to collect dust. Suddenly Ubuntu moves on a version or two and people still running the old gadget are left in no man's land with support issues. The people who really understand Linux are too busy with the new gadget to support the old. It's the long term user who's left holding the bag.
This is a large company (Dell) buying software from another reasonably large company (Canonical) so it's not really fair to talk about devices that maybe never supported Linux in the first place, made by who knows, supported only by geeks.
You talk specifically about Ubuntu dropping support for features from a previous release and then ignoring the users left out in the cold because of the new-shiny. Could you name an example of that actually happening? Because it's been my experience that my hardware works better with each release, and I haven't seen forums bubbling over with ignored support issues with older hardware as you imply.
Will Dell continue to support this as the distro progresses or should the unit come with a sticker warning the user not to upgrade beyond the current version? It's kind of burned my ass the number of times I tried to pull some older gadgets over to Linux only to find that if I use the distro's 2 or 3 year old package I was fine but if I wanted the latest and greatest I was busied with the work of just getting basic functionality going. The upgrade cycle concerns me too much in some cases to give Linux a try if the only support I have is community based.
Not everyone in the world has the weak consumer laws that you're obviously subject to... if Dell release a product and drop support for it within an unreasonably short timeframe, in much of the world they'll be pilloried and made and example of by the law - because many countries don't allow people to drop a product and run unless they're out of business. So no, I'd say there's no chance whatsoever that Dell will not "continue to support" it, unless they want to be bankrupted in court.
At any rate there's far, far less chance that Dell will fail to support an operating system that they can pick up and fix themselves if necessary, than there is that they'll drop support for something where they have no recourse if the manufacturer decides to discontinue support. Like, Ooh... I don't know... Windows, and most of the third party device drivers for it.
I likely will not go "100%" Linux for a long long time. Most of it has to do with working in a Windows shop and, frankly, liking my games. But even if that wasn't an issue I still haven't warmed up to the community support aspect.
Yes, because Microsoft is just bending over backwards to support it's customers when they have problems. It's not like anyone has to google through forums to find solutions for windows problems because Microsoft's support is SOOOO outstanding.
Seriously, what does Microsoft offer in the way of support to a single home user that isn't available for a cheaper price for Ubuntu or another commercially supported distribution? This supposed support sounds like a fallacy to me, pretty much like the rest of this post. It's fine that you like Windows, but there's no need to make up FUD about Linux to justify your standpoint.
Windows seems like a perfectly fine solution for a certain class of user, and to them I say "To each their own, and mind your fucking bullshit when you talk about mine"
How often do you update the software in your refrigerator?
My current refrigerator doesn't connect to the Internet, so it's not vunerable to new exploits.
You install Linux and then you leave it alone - don't fix it if it ain't broke. It will keep running for many years and keep working just like the day you bought it.
It should be fine for *three* years (if you apply the security updates regularly) - that's when the support is currently scheduled to end for Ubuntu 8.04. If you are still using it then, it *is* important that you upgrade to a supported release, unless you're happy to have it exploited and expose (e.g.) your banking details.
Yes, you're a lot safer than with Windows; you're 99.999% certain not to get a virus; but you are vunerable to browser based privacy-type exploits.
Anything that connects to the Internet needs regular security updates.
Pre- is for events... not verbs. A machine with no operating system installed at all would be "pre"-installed. A "pre"-heated oven would be room temperature.
Curious, but both Merriam-Webster and the Oxford English Dictionary seem to disagree with you. Since you need to have a subscription to the OED, I'll quote what they say:
pre-, prefix
With verbs, or participial adjectives and verbal nouns derived from them, in sense 'fore-, before, previously, in advance'.
Would you like to amend your statement to say that the OED is killing the English language? Because that would be a pretty silly argument to make.
This guy's the limit!
However, are they pre-installing Ubuntu because XP will not run satisfactorily with the base system configuration (512MB RAM, etc.), or because XP is more expensive?
In a way, a combination of both. My 7-year-old Dell PC has a CPU and RAM comparable to today's netbooks (0.86 GHz PIII, 384 MB RAM), and it runs Windows XP, Firefox 3, VirtualDub, Lockjaw, and StepMania just fine. But then I keep it comparatively clean, without a lot of icons in the tray and with no antivirus other than ClamWin's weekly full system scan. I'm guessing that XP will run just fine on this system, but the trialware that subsidizes an XP license does not.
You wanna bet that they aren't already working on an "XP-Lite" version to counter this threat?
There already is Windows XP Lite. It's called Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PCs, intended to replace Windows 98 Second Edition in corporate environments. It's Windows Vista that needs to be made lite in order to run on a netbook.
Yes, that's a bug...and one I recently encountered. But the fix is easy (but admittedly not obvious). You just kill the processes that hang and then reinstall the locales package once you restart. I fully agree that manually killing processes is not something you want your average user to have to do, but the workarounds are out there and (for the most part) clearly documented in those links you speak of.
I think this discussion started from someone wondering if Dell will continue to support this laptop several years down the road. To me it seems that as hardware matures its support just gets better. Just think of how many posts you hear about people putting xubuntu on their "old P2 sitting around collecting dust" and it "just works" because that hardware is well understood. So as long as Dell provides enough information about the hardware at the onset, then it will be supported well at first and as bugs/issues arise they will be incorporated into the mainstream codebases.
When I have a kid, I want to put him in one of those strollers for twins and then run around the mall looking frantic.
Actually, I'm running Ubuntu on the EEE-PC due to update problems. To get the advanced Xandros desktop working, I had to do an upgrade. Somehow in there I ended up with a circular dependency involving python, I think, which made it impossible to revert back or go forward. Installing EEEUbuntu via USB thumb drive was the easiest way to fix the issue and get a full desktop.
Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
Yes, because Microsoft is just bending over backwards to support it's customers when they have problems. It's not like anyone has to google through forums to find solutions for windows problems because Microsoft's support is SOOOO outstanding.
Actually we had an issue in work during an AD upgrade, phoned MS they charged us £200 before taking to us, couldnt resolve the bug, we found a fix and told them, they said "umm should be ok to do that" (ie they had no clue). And we never saw our £200 again.. Now THAT is what i call real support!
On another note I have a dell vostro 1500 and ubuntu support for it out of the box was crap, 7.04 installed but wpa2 wireless was very unstable & ubuntu would not boot without me loading piix, same with 7.10 (to be fair though 7.04 was out before the vostro was released & 7.10 was out 2/3 months after it was released). 8.04 on the other hand is flawless out of the box wireless just works,no mucking about, install is fine again no mucking about. So essentially 1 release (I wont count 7.10 as it was released too soon after the vostro to have been able to really tested against it) after the vostro was released by dell ubuntu supported it flawlessly out of the box.
The other 10" netbook (MSI Wind) is selling on Amazon for $569. It seems that netbooks with 10 inches of screen (measured diagonally btw) are settling into that price range.
I must say, however, that $300 for an 8.9" screen is a darn good deal for a powerful netbook from Dell. --Though for 10" screens, the Asus eee line still impresses me more than any of the others so far; they've got a year's worth of product development under their belts at this point where everybody else is still scrambling, and Asus seems to be the only manufacturer which isn't shipping units with "crystal-bright" screens, which I know some people prefer, but for me clinched the deal by virtue of its absence. --The other perk is the presence of a massive user support community. This is the first time, possibly in my life, when I've found myself in with the popular crowd. It feels kind of weird to have the 'it' item. I can't decide if I feel dirty or elated. It's rare when "Popular" also means "Damn Good".
The other elements which I'm impressed with on the 1000H are the default 6-cell battery and its nice long life, the responsive and properly sized keyboard with its sensible layout, the screen real-estate, great audio, quiet fan/HD, and excellent body design, (it's nice and rugged; doesn't feel cheaply made like some of the other netbooks I've handled). I was also pleasantly surprised with the hibernate feature in XP; until it came through the door, I was resigned to putting up with long start-up times, but with the hibernate feature it goes from cold to me typing at full speed in about 14 seconds, though I suspect that would be longer if I doubled up the memory. It currently has 1 gig, but I've not noticed any limiting issues with that at all. A gig is a lot; though it might become a bit annoying if I decide to do any heavy Photoshop work on the thing, although I can't realistically see that happening very often.
The one thing I do find is that the trackpad keys are a bit too stiff for my liking. --But at least they're in the right place, at the bottom of the trackpad. I don't know what several other designers were thinking when they put them to the sides. Weird. The only other thing I would caution people about is that the eee1000 is just this side of being too big and heavy. You need a bit of muscle to hold it in one hand while typing with the other; it's best on your lap or knee or some other surface. A Blackberry it is not, but it still slides very nicely into a backpack and it's easy enough to treat like a book around the house rather than a piece of fold-up furniture.
I've not tried out the 8.9" eee, and it does seem that the competitors have some nice netbooks out in that range, so I don't know if I'd go with Asus for one of those if I wanted the smaller screen. This new Dell machine, aside from the glossy screen, looks like a pretty decent choice if they can deliver on the projected price.
-FL
In my experience, the big companies providing support often ends up being the ones that give me a headache. A few examples from real life:
1. We had a $300k predictive dialer from a (then) well known telephone equipment provider. We depreciate the investment over 5 years. After 3 years, the provide had been sold to a bigger company that stopped actively supporting the product. Suddenly, even the most obvious bugs (and there were many) in their system was really a feature upgrade that was only available for customers running their latest and greatest. We were left stranded with the choice of throwing another $2-300k dollars at the new company for their new "superior" dialer or support a proprietary solutions on our own. We opted for the second alternative and before 5 years had passed, the company was sold again and our version of the product dropped altogether.
2. We invested even more money in an Avaya switch. The local support in our little Nordic country was more or less nonexistent at the time. So we opted to buy support from another company in our group who had the expertise. After 2 years, Avaya did have support support but we couldn't buy it from them since parts of our PBX was already "out of sale" and would be "out of support" within 1 year. Instead, we were forced into a $200k upgrade.
3. We had roughly 200 Dell Optiplex SX280 in production, running XP. A lot of these machines have an inherit problem with their motherboard that causes them to overheat. Dell acknowledged the problem and extended the factory warranty to 5 years so that all machines had time to break while we could still get an free exchange motherboard. Only problem was that they had failed to mention that it wasn't really a 5-year warranty, they had limited it to a specific date less than 60 days into the future counting from the date when we first learned about the "5-years warranty".
4. We have rented an issue tracking system from a well known software developer. Since their system didn't really live up to what their salesman had promised us, they ended up doing a lot of custom work for us to fix a few of the problems. After 1 year, they released a new version that would have fixed a lof of the remaining problems we had. Needless to say, our customizations was not portable to their new version, so we ended up ditching their system to develop a derivate from a GPL'ed solution instead. Sure, we could have taken them to court, but in real life, we need to focus on delivering services to our customers.
In my experience (12 years in the business) enterprise support is about paying twice for everything and having someone to meet in court when sh**t hits the fan.
Since a few years back, my strategy is to hire skilled technicians and staying close to the main stream of open source software (=Ubuntu + Asterisk for this call center). From a 24*7 production perspective, that's the safest way.
Ho, ho! And the horses are at the gate!
Levono is being a bit coy, it seems. (Just went through their S10 info).
You get half the memory (512Mb) and half the battery size (3 cell) of the eee1000, and there's apparently no option on their sales page to upgrade either of these on the main package. Going through their accessories page, you can separately order a gig of memory for $35 and they don't even offer a 6 cell battery yet for the S10. I would hope they make that option available soon for the main package, (the press releases say they do, so perhaps it's just a matter of waiting a few days for their supply chains to catch up.)
If they don't, however, their batteries seem to be all in the $130 - $170 range regardless of cell number. If they force people to buy a second battery just to get up to 6 cells, then that would be a bad blow.
I note that the screen is a spot bigger than the eee1000, and the keyboard is a spot smaller, being 85% of a full keyboard, where the eee1000 is 92%. Overall the chassis is almost half an inch smaller in width, ringing in at 9.8" to the eee1000's 10.25" Very nice, if you don't mind the keyboard being a touch smaller. The screen also appears to have a mat-finish; another good move on their part.
All in all, it seems like a nice little package; 512Mb is a workable size, though it might be a little tight for XP in some cases. With the features upgraded to the same level as the eee1000, it might not be quite so competitively priced as it first appears. For me, a 6 cell battery is an absolute must and I wouldn't even consider the S10 until it became available. But the S10 does come with an all-in-one card reader to the eee's SD memory slot, and you can get the S10 in Ruby Red, which I have to admit looks pretty sweet.
And they're off!
-FL