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Lessig On McCain's Technology Platform

Agthorr writes "Lawrence Lessig has created a video analyzing John McCain's recently released technology platform (available here). Lessig's video touches on broadband penetration, competition, and network neutrality." Note that while Lessig has come out as a supporter of Barack Obama, this video is not from the Obama campaign.

30 of 156 comments (clear)

  1. To sum it up... by Jack9 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    McCain's has the foresight and intents (and motivations like "faith") of GWB. Not that Obama is a saviour, but let's try to minimize the severe damage the internet will suffer under either candidate (in America).

    --

    Often wrong but never in doubt.
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    Everyone knows me.
    1. Re:To sum it up... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Anyone who expects an openly non-religious person to be 1) nominated by either major political party, and then 2) elected president, is at least as crazy as as any church-goer. It's an empirical fact that belief in the supernatural is necessary to be elected to the office.

    2. Re:To sum it up... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The difference is that Obama's faith isn't the rigid taking-orders-from-god kind, but rather the kind that's supportive of using logic and rationality to decide issues. He's on record supporting atheists and denying that religion is a requirement for morality. http://obama.senate.gov/speech/060628-call_to_renewal/

    3. Re:To sum it up... by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So, which is worse, they guy who people say is old, slow, from another era and believes it, or the guy that's presented by the media as a brilliant, towering intellect... who has such a flawed grip on reality that he still believes it?

      It doesn't matter if McCain has a better grip on reality than Obama, because it doesn't change the fact that everything* about his platform is wrong!

      (*with perhaps the sole exception being his support for the 2nd Amendment -- if only he felt that strongly about the rest of the Bill of Rights!)

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    4. Re:To sum it up... by Tenek · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Well, 50 years ago it was an empirical fact that being white was necessary to be elected to the office.

      If you're an optimist, this means that all those cold hard facts can eventually change, and everyone will be free! Yay!

      If you're a pessimist, this means that Americans are just as bigoted as they were back then, only now it's the gays and atheists destroying America instead of blacks and Jews. Progress?

    5. Re:To sum it up... by ScentCone · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You guys

      Huh? I'm not registered with either party. I already know where McCain's coming from, religiosity-wise. He really hasn't changed in any way - though it would be nice if he woke up one morning and realized it was silly.

      I'm paying more attention to how interesting it is to watch people on the left try to reconcile their mental image of Obama as a cerebral, rational, pillar of tolerance and understanding (and promoter of science and education) even as he loudly proclaims that he's an adherent to all-powerful magic invisible friends and whatnot. That's what's fun to watch.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    6. Re:To sum it up... by ScentCone · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Just because you believe that there is something out there larger than yourself does not mean you turn your brain off

      Just the part that processes things like the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny.

      the last poll I saw ~80% of the adult population in the US believed in God (not necessarily Jesus but a creator) so why do you find it surprising that the candidates would pander to a group that large?

      No, the real question is, why would someone who calls himself the Candidate For Change, and who is proclaimed by all of his media talking point specialists as a staggering intellect, a man of science and reason and "progressive" thinking (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean), not use the opportunity of having the public spotlight to actually see about making it less fashionable to proclaim belief in the supernatural? How many of those 80% do you suppose just say that because of peer pressure? I expect it's a huge share of them. Obama says he doesn't like the "old" ways of doing things... but at the same time he says he gets his entire ethical framework from a frequently mis-translated collection of 2000-year-old (and more recently edited, obviously) mythology that includes descriptions of an all-powerful, all-loving God that - oddly - still to this day likes to kill innocent children with lukemia and bolts of lighting.

      Everyone has filters that they see the world through. Which set are you using?

      Here's an intereting notion: how about seeing it as it actually is, rather than filtering it? You could even consider seeing your candidates that way.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    7. Re:To sum it up... by ultranova · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No, the real question is, why would someone who calls himself the Candidate For Change, and who is proclaimed by all of his media talking point specialists as a staggering intellect, a man of science and reason and "progressive" thinking (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean), not use the opportunity of having the public spotlight to actually see about making it less fashionable to proclaim belief in the supernatural?

      Perhaps because even intelligent people don't necessarily agree about things, especially when talking about the existence or nature of supernatural, which is by definition impossible to verify either way with science. It is possible to be intelligent and a man of science and still believe in supernatural; "intelligent" doesn't mean "thinks like I do".

      A more cynical part of me suggests that he's using that intellect to predict the reactions to such proclamation, and has decided it would likely cost him more support than it'd gain.

      How many of those 80% do you suppose just say that because of peer pressure? I expect it's a huge share of them.

      You know, "I think they lied" is not a very convincing way of rebutting statistical data you don't like. Some might even suggest you're not being very scientific, and not looking at reality as it is, but rather through a filter ;).

      Everyone has filters that they see the world through. Which set are you using?

      Here's an intereting notion: how about seeing it as it actually is, rather than filtering it? You could even consider seeing your candidates that way.

      Sadly, that is impossible. At it's most fundamental known level the world is just a list of properties (spin, place, velocity, etc.) of various particles. Extracting any kind of useful data out of that requires interpreting them; for example, your ability to see is based on your brain interpreting the chemical changes in your retina as reflecting the energy of photons hitting it, while your ability to read this text is your brain interpreting certain patterns of black and white as equivalent to speech.

      Basically, there is no objective reality beyond that fundamental level; everything besides the list of properties of basic particles is just you interpreting that list with a filter that gives you information you consider relevant. A photon in a particular state is in that state objectively, but a dead rabbit might be a curiosity, insignificant, or a meal, depending on who you ask; if it's been dead long enough, some might even argue that it isn't rabbit but dust.

      This gets even worse with political candidates, because the very same candidate, who's message is understood and character and abilities judged in the exactly same way by two people, might be considered entirely differently by them, depending on the filter of what they consider desirable.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    8. Re:To sum it up... by EveryNickIsTaken · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Despite what many people here think, science and religion are not mutually exclusive.

  2. To save you 16 minutes, by Mumei+no+koshinuke · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Lessig says the only two issues at stake are broadband penetration and net neutrality. McCain will try to solve the broadband penetration "problem" by providing subsidies to the cable and telecom monopolies, and he will oppose net neutrality.

    Obviously Lessig would prefer to see more competition and open networks.

    Personally, I think the broadband penetration number ("our rank has fallen to #22") is a bit of a red herring because the US is far less densely populated than most other countries and thus perfect broadband penetration is not feasible. And while I'm all for net neutrality, that issue alone is not going to determine who I vote for.

    Despite the current lack of regulation I think I get a fairly fast, unrestricted Internet connection at a fairly low price. I think that as long as there are at least two providers available in any locality the market will force reasonable prices and net neutrality.

    1. Re:To save you 16 minutes, by DragonWriter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Personally, I think the broadband penetration number ("our rank has fallen to #22") is a bit of a red herring because the US is far less densely populated than most other countries and thus perfect broadband penetration is not feasible.

      Lower population density may mean that universal broadband access isn't as profitable for commercial vendors as it might be otherwise (ditto with access to electricity, running water, telephone service, mail, etc.), but it certainly does not mean it is not feasible.

    2. Re:To save you 16 minutes, by Foofoobar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is a good argument for selling the 'last mile' to consumers. Some companies are looking into selling the last mile to consumers or smaller communities that way they do not have to pay for the cost. This also would make a much better argument for net neutrality in consumers and communities owned the last mile.

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    3. Re:To save you 16 minutes, by thanatos_x · · Score: 4, Informative

      Allow me to elaborate on the broadband issue. If you look at average and top speeds available in NYC, LA, Chicago, or any other major city, you'll find that they are 2-5 times slower than the average available to the whole country of Japan, South Korea, France and Sweeden.

      The fastest speeds you can currently get from Verizon (via FiOS) are 50/20 (down/up), for which you'll pay $145 a month. This is below the average of what you'd get in the above countries, and I'm almost certain it costs 25-33% of the above rate.

      A more reasonable 20/20 or 20/5 costs 70 or 57. The bottom line is that IF you can get the service, you'll pay 3-6 times the cost per mbps as you would in another country. One could argue that markup is to pay for further penetration, but eh... we're still well behind in internet speeds even in our metro areas.

      To my knowledge Verizon offers the fastest service plans available for residential access, and I'm guessing their $/mbps is competitive as well. I'm glad that they're at least offering a 20/20 or a 50/20 package, but don't kid yourself - we're still pretty far behind in our coverage.

      --
      I am not an expert. If I am misled in something, please correct me.
    4. Re:To save you 16 minutes, by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The trouble with the "less densely populated" argument is that even in wealthy and thickly settled areas our broadband is expensive and crap. It would, I agree, be wholly unrealistic to whine about how rural Idaho has internet access that would make Tokyo cry. Obviously so. The fact that even in major metropolitan areas, we face an effective duopoly; both options fairly lousy, is not at all unrealistic to be upset about.

    5. Re:To save you 16 minutes, by natedubbya · · Score: 2, Interesting

      by providing subsidies to the cable and telecom monopolies

      Not quite. What McCain proposes is tax cuts to these areas to spur development. Lessig, of course, calls them subsidies. A subsidy is very different from a tax cut. Of course, one shouldn't be surprised that Lessig makes this confusion as his political leanings tend to assume that tax money originates and belongs to the government, not the originating source of the income. The word subsidy also makes it sound like McCain wants to fill evil telecoms' pockets with undeserved cash.

      If you don't see the distinction ... imagine calling a decrease in your personal income tax a subsidy :)

    6. Re:To save you 16 minutes, by mariushm · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have cable 20/2 Internet connection, and I'm in Romania (a small country in Europe with neighbors Hungary and Bulgaria for people with less knowledge of geography).

      Inside the country, I can max the connection anytime, full 20mbps. Outside the country, the speeds are on average 13-14mbps.

      This is the result of heavy competition between two ISP that bought almost all the small ISP companies in the country.

      Also, no bandwidth caps and it costs about 20 dollars. Bundled with cable TV (576p, about 55 channels) the total cost is 40$.

      For an additional 10$ a month, the company can give me a set top box that takes digital tv out of the same cable (still 576p but digital up to the set top box so crystal clear. HD is still in testing in the country).

      About two years ago, for the same price I would have received 2mbps download, 256kbps upload.

      So what I'm trying to say is that it's quite possible to saturate your connection, if I can for example by downloading two linux iso's from two different servers in my country.

      It's your provider that doesn't invest enough to have the backbone capable of handling the speeds.

    7. Re:To save you 16 minutes, by forkazoo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Personally, I think the broadband penetration number ("our rank has fallen to #22") is a bit of a red herring because the US is far less densely populated than most other countries and thus perfect broadband penetration is not feasible. And while I'm all for net neutrality, that issue alone is not going to determine who I vote for.

      Yeah, population density explains it. That's why a typical Canadian broadband connection is faster that a typical broadband connection in the US (or any particular part of the US, regardless of population density.)

      Looking at the post from the fellow in Romania, I think it's interesting that HDTV is normal here is the US, but basically doesn't exist in Romania, while the reverse is true for fast Internet. It's not a matter of technology level, or wealth. It's just a matter of priorities. Romania invested in a key enabling technology that has impacts in education, the economy, and individual political empowerment. The US invested in American Idol with extra pixels. And, this makes me sad. I know we could do better, and I just don't understand why we as a society choose not to.

    8. Re:To save you 16 minutes, by thanatos_x · · Score: 4, Informative

      I attempted to compare apples to apples. The population density in NYC or LA has to be greater than the population density of any of those countries outside their cities. Nowhere did I mention our average broadband speed, which even in the best of states is under 5 mbps IIRC. I didn't mention the average (under 3 mpbs), and I certainly didn't mention Alaska (under 1 mpbs)

      Now an above poster mentions that a former USSR country (Romania) gets 10-15 times faster actual download speeds (20/2) than a 20/5 person in the US, and pays 1/3 as much.

      As for your argument about density - Romania's average density is 236/sq mi. There are 11 US states with a density greater than that, according to wikipedia.

      In my opinion (not to disparage Romania at all), but when a country that was under Communist control until 20 years ago has better internet speeds for 1/3 the price of the US, it should be entirely unacceptable.

      Since you like economics, you should know duopolies (which are what most local ISPs are) and oligopolies (nationwide ISPs) don't allocate resources efficiently in many cases and reduce consumer surplus.

      I'm also pretty sure U.S. telecoms have been given subsidies and/or tax breaks in return for guarantees on broadband penetration and speed. For the most part, telecoms are years behind where they promised to be if they got said subsidies.

      If there's anything else you have a question about, let me know.

      --
      I am not an expert. If I am misled in something, please correct me.
    9. Re:To save you 16 minutes, by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How am I not losing money now to have broadband delivered to me? I pay every single month, and I have no equity in anything I'm paying for. I call that lost money. I'm quite certain I've paid the prorated installation cost of the cable to my house several times over in the past 6 years, and if nothing changes, I can look forward to paying it all over again in the next 6 years. I am also absolutely certain that the prorated cost of transit for my traffic is a microscopic portion of my monthly payment.

      So tell me again how an unprofitable utility loses me money?

  3. Re:I can't watch this by kesuki · · Score: 2, Insightful

    sadly those who have banned flash on their pcs can't access content that could have easily been done with 2-5 small images and a text based blog entry instead of making a 2 minute shockwave flash video and wasting everyone's bandwidth.

  4. Lovely... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    > McCain will try to solve the broadband penetration "problem" by providing subsidies to the cable and telecom monopolies

    Great. So regulation to protect Net Neutrality by preventing people from making an open market closed is bad, but giving tax money to monopolies is good?

    As for broadband rank, I would like to point out that the Nordic countries do find in spite of having lower densities than we do. Also, if you look at coverage, it's concentrated in the rich areas.

    I'm in the _middle_ of the 5th largest metropolis in the USA, and my choices are:

    * Cable (With a pathetic 20 GB/month download limit, but decent speed... usually).

    * 144 Kbps DSL (Which costs over $100/month, BTW. Those are kilo BITS per second; so downloads top out at 15-16 KB/s).

    * A T1 line (I'm tempted, but it's something like $400/month and I don't have the income to support it).

    * A city wireless network that I'm on the far end of the range for (and can't connect to reliably).

    * Satellite (laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag).

    * Dial-up.

    Supposedly there's FIOS to be had, but not in my area. Only over in the high-income areas. If we were smart, the government would set up some major fiber optic backbones and such to the population centers, then lease lines to local businesses. So the public would OWN the infrastructure (and therefore, care for it), while the businesses would innovate in making use of it.

    Instead, we've given billions to telecoms and gotten nothing in return, because they want to keep the money and cherry-pick the areas they service without making expensive infrastructure investments.

    And you can't do that on the state level, because it becomes "competition" to service people the telecoms *refuse* to.

  5. Population density by overshoot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Personally, I think the broadband penetration number ("our rank has fallen to #22") is a bit of a red herring because the US is far less densely populated than most other countries and thus perfect broadband penetration is not feasible. And while I'm all for net neutrality, that issue alone is not going to determine who I vote for.

    Was the USA more densely populated eight years ago?

    I'll point out that Arizona is more urban than the Netherlands. Almost all of Arizona's population lives in major urban areas; the Netherlands has a higher net population density but a much higher percentage of their population lives in nonurban villages.

    This is by way of saying that population density is a red herring, because broadband penetration is measured by people, not square miles. The USA's ranking isn't being driven down by the lack of broadband on the Yuma Proving Grounds or the Plains of St. Augustin.

    --
    Lacking <sarcasm> tags, /. substitutes moderation as "Troll."
  6. Re:I can't watch this by mariushm · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here's the video in mp4 format, for those who won't enable the Flash plugin for a few minutes:

    ftp://definethis.org/video.mp4

    It's 57.3 MB (60,102,443 bytes), straight from Google's servers.

    For those complaining about dial up, here's only the sound:

    ftp://definethis.org/sound.mp3 (22050, mono, 3.82 MB (4,016,064 bytes))

    Links are ftp to allow for bandwidth limit in case download goes overboard.

  7. Re:I can't watch this by bsDaemon · · Score: 2, Interesting

    How many people who might vote for mccain either know or care who Lessig is anyway? I won't be voting for McCain, and I'm only marginally aware myself.

  8. tax cuts vs subsidies by j1m+5n0w · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A subsidy is very different from a tax cut. Of course, one shouldn't be surprised that Lessig makes this confusion as his political leanings...

    Lessig first refers to them as tax cuts; he obviously is not "confused" about the distinction, he quite deliberately equates tax cuts with subsidies, and the end result of a selective tax cut and a subsidy (assuming the subsidy is not larger than the amount taxed) is the same thing, as you well know.

    If you don't see the distinction ... imagine calling a decrease in your personal income tax a subsidy :)

    I would have no problem calling a tax reduction on a demographic I don't belong to a "subsidy" rather than a tax cut, especially if the tax cut seems to have been applied arbitrarily. If it applied to myself, I might be able to fool myself into calling it a tax cut, but the only one fooled would be myself; to everyone else who didn't qualify, it would be a subsidy.

    his political leanings tend to assume that tax money originates and belongs to the government, not the originating source of the income.

    ...

    The word subsidy also makes it sound like McCain wants to fill evil telecoms' pockets with undeserved cash.

    You seem to be basing your arguments on the notion that the money rightly belongs to the taxpayer, and than it is wrong for the government to take it. However, McCain is not proposing to repeal taxes altogther, but to take tax money from some and not from others. Supposing we were to agree that taxes are a necessary evil in order to support a civil society. Which would you consider in general to be the best policy: tax everyone equally, or tax some people and not others? (And I am aware that current tax policy does not tax equally, but that's an issue for another time.)

  9. All I want to say about McCain is by andy1307 · · Score: 4, Funny

    John McCain has a comprehensive economic plan that will create millions of good American jobs, ensure our nation's energy security, get the government's budget and spending practices in order, and bring relief to American consumers. Click to learn how the McCain Economic Plan will help bring reform, prosperity and peace to America.

    1. Re:All I want to say about McCain is by Pork+Flavour · · Score: 2, Funny

      Click to learn how the McCain Economic Plan will help bring reform, prosperity and peace to America.

      Peace? Oh, that John McCain cracks me up...

    2. Re:All I want to say about McCain is by jannone · · Score: 5, Funny

      McCain's website is written in ASP. Obama's is in PHP. I rest my case.

  10. Re:I can't watch this by grahamd0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    My argument is just as strong as the argument I was responding to, which claims that the quality of the media affects whether or not someone is going to listen to an argument -- ie, judging the book by its cover.

    Except that it does, and people do.

    Can you honestly tell me that you've never seen anyone get modded up for a well written post that didn't really say anything? Or conversely someone with a valid point get modded down because they write like an idiot?

    That video added nothing to the point Lessig was trying to make, and in fact, actively detracted from it. I agree with every word he said and I thought that video was terrible. It was 16 minutes of poor PowerPoint emulation, bad parodies of Apple marketing, the implication that AT&T is *not* a villainous entity in the same vein as Comcast, and blatant political pandering (all of that Iraq war commentary was a distraction from his main point). Did you actually watch the video or do you just like arguing?

    If I'm judging a book by it's cover, then you're too busy trying to see the forest to realize that the trees suck.

  11. Lessig is a hack by Scudsucker · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I lost all respect for Lessig when he described the opposition to telecom immunity as "leftist hysteria". It's like if Richard Stallman suddenly called opposition to DRM the work of "Linux zealots".