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Nuclear Decay May Vary With Earth-Sun Distance

KentuckyFC writes "We've long thought that nuclear decay rates are constant regardless of ambient conditions (except in a few special cases where beta decay can be influenced by powerful electric fields). So that makes it hard to explain two puzzling experiments from the 1980s that found periodic variations over many years in the decay rates of silicon-32 and radium-226. Now a new analysis of the raw data says that changes in the decay rate are synchronized with each other and with Earth's distance from the sun. The physicists behind this work offer two theories to explain why this might be happening (abstract). First, some theorists think the sun produces a field that changes the value of the fine structure constant on Earth as its distance from the sun varies. That would certainly affect the rate of nuclear decay. Another idea is that the effect is caused by some kind of interaction with the neutrino flux from the sun's interior which also varies with distance. Take your pick. What makes the whole story even more intriguing is that for years physicists have disagreed over the decay rates of several isotopes such as titanium-44, silicon-32, and cesium-137. Perhaps they took their data at different times of the year?"

19 of 418 comments (clear)

  1. Carbon Dating by Jaysyn · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Does this have any ramifications for carbon dating?

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    1. Re:Carbon Dating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yes, you can now only date graphite. Diamonds are no longer acceptable dating material.

    2. Re:Carbon Dating by meringuoid · · Score: 5, Informative
      I'd expect not. The variation would be over the course of a year, and carbon dating works on a timescale of centuries to millennia; it would even out. Besides that, we have other clocks to calibrate carbon dating against; you can carbon-date a historic artefact of known age, you can count tree rings or ice layers, stuff like that.

      On a timescale of billions of years, however, the luminosity of the Sun has increased substantially, and if that accelerates radioactive decays by some neutrino interaction then the uranium-lead clock would be off and the Earth might be considerably older than we thought.

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    3. Re:Carbon Dating by clickety6 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yes - but not enough to account for the difference between Joan Rivers' apparent and actual age.

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    4. Re:Carbon Dating by Vectronic · · Score: 5, Funny

      I dated graphite once, she wasnt very original, kinda flaky, and left dark marks on me... Diamonds, is still playing hard to get though...

    5. Re:Carbon Dating by The+Standard+Deviant · · Score: 5, Funny

      I take it you don't play with bucky balls then!

    6. Re:Carbon Dating by Bob-taro · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Also, it is only these two isotopes that are mentioned, presumably because most other isotopes tested do not have this sort of periodic effect.

      I wouldn't presume that. The very thing that makes this so interesting is that "the modulations are synchronised with each other and with Earth's distance from the sun." To me, that makes it likely to be a general effect on all radioactive materials. I don't know if this will lead to anything that supports a young earth theory, but it'll be interesting to see what comes from it. The article also mentions:

      It turns out, that the notion of that nuclear decay rates are constant has been under attack for some time. In 2006, Jenkins says the decay rate of manganese-54 in their lab decreased dramtically during a solar flare on 13 December.

      This is a good example of how many holes there might be in our theories about the universe. We have been making measurements for a few 1000 years in one solar system (mostly just on one planet) and things that we don't see changing, like radioactive decay rates, we consider constant. It's exciting to think how much more there may still be to discover.

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    7. Re:Carbon Dating by necro81 · · Score: 5, Informative

      I get your joke, but it presents an opening to state the following little known fact:

      Diamonds are not, in fact, forever

      Under normal temperature and pressure conditions, diamond is not the most stable form of carbon - graphite is. Using thermodynamic arguments and building a free energy curve, one can show that some fraction of a diamond must decay to graphite in order to achieve a minimum energy state. It does take a very long time for this to happen - geologic time - but even a "long time" is not forever. If you aren't that patient, heat the diamond up to, say, 1500 C to speed things up. Oh, but be sure to do that in the absence of oxygen, because diamond burns just like other forms of carbon.

      Some references: [1], [2], [3]

    8. Re:Carbon Dating by es330td · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm more interested to know if this has any impact on nuclear waste. If decay can be sped up artificially one of the biggest objection points against widescale adoption of nuclear power in the US goes away.

    9. Re:Carbon Dating by fatphil · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Take an old vinyl record. Punch a new hole just off-centre. Play the record. Sometimes it's too high pitched (fast) and sometimes it's too low pitched (slow). Yet the song still takes the same length of time to play.

      I.e. no.

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    10. Re:Carbon Dating by Scott+Carnahan · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It does take a very long time for this to happen - geologic time - but even a "long time" is not forever.

      The idea that a diamond will decay into graphite in geologic time is a popular fiction. The activation energy barrier for the diamond-graphite transition is high enough that substantial decay at STP will take far longer than the Earth will last, and the time scale is therefore not geologic. Several samples of diamond have been found that crystallized before the formation of the solar system, and some carbonados exhibit Xenon isotope concentrations in inclusions that suggest that they formed in distant supernovas and fell to earth.

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    11. Re:Carbon Dating by ozbird · · Score: 5, Funny

      No, dogs are best friends around here. What women read /.?

      Dogs read Slashdot?!

  2. It's a trick! by NuclearError · · Score: 5, Funny

    They are just trying to force me to buy new updated nuclear engineering text books. I won't fall for it!

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  3. Fine structure constant by kmac06 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    One possible explanation proposed in this paper is:

    In their theory, the Sun produces a scalar field which would modulate the terrestrial value of the electromagnetic fine structure constant EM.

    The fine structure constant (about 1/137) has been measured to a whopping 10 significant digits, one of the most precisely measure physical constants. If there is a seasonal variation enough to influence decay rates by .1%, wouldn't this show up in different experiments measuring the fine structure constant?

  4. openings for little known facts by BitterAndDrunk · · Score: 5, Funny

    Are the reasons your extensive diamond knowledge will never come in handy.

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  5. Re:Engineering Ramifications? by jschen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The Voyagers was the first thing that came to my mind, too. If the rate of radioactive decay is dependent on neutrino flux from the sun, then shouldn't their RTGs have long since gone dead as the rate of decay slowed (due to increasing distance), rather than maintaining better performance than originally anticipated (due to better performance of the thermocouple than anticipated)? (NASA link) Given that both spacecraft are alive and well out past the heliosphere, I think we can safely conclude that the rate of decay of the plutonium onboard is not meaningfully influenced by solar neutrino flux.

  6. One possible explanation by elrond2003 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As someone who made the equipment that the scientist probably used to do the counting, I have one possible explanation. Most Multichannel Analyzers (MCAs) of the time used a line clock to determine the time. They assume that the power company delivered 60Hz power (or 50 Hz in Europe), This frequency was almost never precise but varied by .1 to .2% (one plant where I measured the frequency put out 58.8Hz for example, a real mess for us) from time to time. A systemic variation due to power loads (heating in winter/ AC in summer) could easily bias the power frequency by about the right amount with the right periodicity. The universe might well be safe.

  7. Diamonds are Forever... by geobeck · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...only if they maintain the correct Bond.

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  8. Re:Engineering Ramifications? by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 5, Informative

    If I understood correctly, the variance in decay rate between Earth's aphelion and perihelion is .1%. Earth's distance from the sun doesn't change by that much in astronomical terms...

    But Earth's distance from the sun does change by more than 0.1% during its orbit:
    Aphelion distance = 152.1 million km
    Perihelion distance = 147.3 million km
    So aphelion distance from the center of the sun is 3.2% greater than perihelion distance. Alternatively, both aphelion and perihelion differ from their mean by 1.6%.

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