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Thai Government To Close 400 Anti-government Sites
Will Lord writes "The Guardian is reporting that the Thai government plans to close down 400 anti-government websites and is asking ISPs to block 1,200 more. The response follows a declaration of a state of emergency which has seen troops take to the streets of Bangkok to police anti-government protests.
With web crackdowns like this becoming more and more frequent, do you think we will start to see similar (overt) activities from US and European governments?"
It won't be so much the government cracking down against *dissident* websites in the U.S., it will be the government and major broadband ISP's cracking down on websites based on file-sharing and "Intellectual Property" violations (at the behest of the MPAA/RIAA and their ilk). It's only a matter of time before typing in piratebay.org into your browser leads you to a page that says "This page is blocked for copyright violations" or something similar. The courts have already directly taken down sites like Torrentspy and Lokitorrent in the U.S.
People will learn to get around blocks with proxies, true, but how long before ISP's start blocking major proxy sites too? If my workplace can use Websense to block virtually any proxy list (and it's REALLY good at it too, BTW), there is nothing to stop my ISP from doing it too. And, like most people, I only have a couple of choices of broadband ISP's in my area (AT&T and Time Warner), so it's not like I could just take my business elsewhere.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
That wouldn't be in the best interest of the people, right?
With web crackdowns like this becoming more and more frequent do you think we will start to see similar (overt) activities from US and European governments?
I doubt it ... although, I think China & Russia will follow suit (if they aren't already).
... although I was getting a bit frightened there when it seemed for the longest time that a small select elite few wanted the war in Iraq. When Bush was re-elected, there wasn't much I could say however. I feel like half the country wanted it so there's no sense in me violently reacting to this. I'm certain the Thai feel much differently about their situation.
From what I've read, the short of this state of emergency is simply an elite urban ruling class that supports the Thai monarchy and abolished the prime minister back in 2006. The elite class is calling itself the People's Alliance for Democracy even though they have little to nothing to do with fair representation across the entire state. Again, I don't live there, this is second hand information.
Basically, violent protests from both sides are going down and people are dying. Hopefully shutting down the sites that point out the obvious will stop these clashes. I sincerely doubt it, this will clearly be more justification for the rest of Thailand to revolt against the Monarchy.
Unfortunately, Russia & China could both be seen in this same light with Beijing & Moscow being islands of wealth in an otherwise third world country.
I doubt the US and much of Europe need to do this
If you can't see healthy dissent in a country to some extent--something is terribly wrong.
My work here is dung.
No. You may see maneuvering by ISPs and content providers. I seriously doubt you'll see any crackdown by the governments.
This seriously reminds me of that yearly list of censored stories. I mean, you get the list, you whine they're censored, yet provide links to each one. Sorry, there's no censorship here, least of all against anti-government sentiment, whether the content is true or 100% false, as should be quite obvious by some of the sites out there.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
If you were standing next to a guy with a knife as big as the one in photo on the guardian site, would you even bother to get that "my penis is smaller than his" catapult out of your pocket?
Seriously though, I don't think many western governments will be doing what this desperate Thai government is doing, not until there is rioting through the streets and they are fearful of their power. In that situation western government would probably do a lot worse than shut down websites.
It's only a matter of time before typing in piratebay.org into your browser leads you to a page that says "This page is blocked for copyright violations" or something similar.
It won't say "This page is blocked..." it will say "Your IP address has been recorded and the FBI has been notified that you are attempting illegal activities."
If people rebelling is so much of a concern that you find yourself trying to regulate it, you just might be a facist!
Twinstiq, game news
The US government is controlled by financial interests. Whether the congressmen who vote because of local financial interests, or big oil causing wars.
So I would look to cases where sites are being cracked down where the sites protest against companies in an effective way. For example the RIAA, has been able to push DMCA and DRM through, which has been a disaster for all concerned. Yet they are now able to close down sites that share keytabs for guitars, many types of filesharing that in the past were just gray are now illegal.
This is America, the corporations ARE the government. Just check out all the lobbyists at the conventions.
Yeah, and then you get accused of being the Imperialist World Police who should mind their own goddamn business.
How will Western country X lose its freedoms because of what's going on in third world country Y?
So what should the West do? Occupy every country where human rights aren't up to our standards? Then we'll be blamed of imperialism and genocide and God knows what else. We can't save all the peoples of the world from themselves, and it's not like we don't have problems of our own.
Anyway, we're already doing aid work and peacekeeping, giving money to developing countries and making a big scene about human rights violations (both real and imagined) through groups like Amnesty.
I don't think developing countries on the other side of the world are heavily involved in protecting Finland.
The anarchists' website is still up - what are you talking about?
Maybe YOU think that "abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble" includes blocking public access to roads, but I disagree. You can protest, but you can't render public infrastructure unusable.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
I spent August 1973 to August 1974 in Utapao AFB in Thailand. Utapao was a short boat ride away from Phuket (pronounced "fuck it"; the Thais have a different alphabet than we do) At the time, Thailand was then a third world country. Utapao was in the southern part of the country, and there was no electricity nor running water nor natural gas in homes. The roads were unpaved. The business districts of Saddaheep and Bong Chong to the south of Utapao had electricity, but not the houses.
We had a Thai intern at work a few years ago, and from her account Thailand has industrialized and is no longer a third world country.
Once while riding a bhat bus (so called because it cost one bhat to ride; a bhat equaled five American pennies. The "bus" was a Japanese pickup truck with benches in the bed) flashing lights came up behind us, the driver skidded to a halt and took off running. I cursed and started to get out. "No!" a fellow passenger insisted, "Day keel you!" She was right; I watched in horror as Thai police shot the driver as he ran across the field.
I attributed it to the fact that Thaland was closer to Vietnam than St Louis is to Chicago, and the war was going on, but it appears that even though they may no longer be a third world country, their government is still authoritarian.
What's troublesome is my government, USA, seems to have been headed more and more towards authoritarianism and less free as time has gone on. So I fear that the answer to the question posed in TFS is "yes".
I wrote two K5 diaries about my Thailand experiences a few years ago, Gecko Poker and War and Sex if anyone is interested in hearing about the place.
While I was there I thought that a visit to Mars couldn't be stranger. Nothing was the same as here, even the dirt was a different color, the hills were a different shape, the vegetation was completely different. But the world seems to becoming more homogenous as time goes on.
mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
"In addition, a Thai court issued three orders to shut down about 400 websites, 344 of which, it claimed, carried material that was contemptuous of the country's royal family. The other blocked websites included two with religious content, one video sex game and five sites deemed to carry obscene content."
Ooh, contempt, content, games and obscenity. We wouldn't want any of that on our internet.
Q: With web crackdowns like this becoming more and more frequent do you think we will start to see similar (overt) activities from US and European governments?
A: No, they'll be as covert as possible.
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
You can thank the Noerr Pennington doctrine for that. I'd love to see it challenged but I don't know how we can do so.
Get rid of that, and you won't see corporations with lobbyists. Would fix a TON of shit in the US.
As soon as someone dips their toe in the water and realizes that, in addition to all of the other legal transgressions committed by the government in recent years, they can get away with this to.
By "get away," I mean that they can forcibly take down a website and the public reaction will be a bunch of angry blogging and a noisy protest march, both of which completely unfaze the government (nor does the direct action (aka vandalism, aka hissy-fits) of the so-called anarchists).
Considering that this was as much as anyone did when the government started a war under either deliberately false pretenses, cherry-picked intelligence, or outright incompetence, I think there are those already thinking about outright censorship, which they'll cloak in some kind of undead HUAC-style (except having to do with "terrorism") rhetoric. I don't think this is some dark conspiracy where they're twisting their mustaches and laughing easily. Rather, the urge of this government and the power behind it is a line on a project plan somewhere, mapped to some kind of sick bottom line.
The same was the result of monkeying with the electoral system, and the same is the result of the various crackdowns on protesters, illegal detention of supposed "combatants", extraordinary rendition, and so on. Angry blogging and impotent protests.
The issue here is that no one is really willing to risk their neck to confront the government, or those who are, are unwilling to commit legal or literal suicide in doing so when the most solidarity they can hope for is people posting a bunch of angry shit on the Internet when they are arrested or worse.
This administration is laughing in the face of our impotence as citzens. They've probably always felt this way about us, but are now doing it in our faces.
There's nothing we can do. We have made this military-industrial corporatist complex into a religion of sorts, and they have addicted us to it - our jobs count on it - and they've basically got our nuts in a vice. They've taken a whole lot already. You can bet they'll take more, and with the witless approval of between 40 and 60% of US citizens, too.
TRT = the old elected government deposed by the military
PAD = the wannabe government that called for the military coup
The leader of PAD owns a TV station (manager TV) this station promotes his cause. He claims to be democratic, but calls on the King and military to take control of the country away from Thaksin Shinawatra and the TRT party. His excuse was 'vote buying'. King said no, that would be undemocratic.
So Thaksin calls a snap election, says PAD should monitor elections closely, wins easily, but not an outright majority. Goes to King, King tells him, for the sake of unity of country step down anyway, even though you won.
Thaksin says OK, preps another election without him.
PAD claims he'll rig election for his successor, suggests maybe he'll do a U turn and not step down. Military decides to have a coup.
So PAD got it's coup, and the miltary took over, they rewrote the constitution, banned TRT, arrested a lot of its leaders.
The military leadership was crap, nothing got better, a lot of the allegations against Thaksin evaporated as false. Things they blamed Thaksin for got worse under the army. Especially the muslim insurgency in the south.
But with TRT banned and leaders locked up, PAD is sure to win right? Right?
Military ran elections closely monitored by the military and police.
Old TRT members that were not arrested formed PPP and won the election.
PAD are seriously pissed off, continue to make ever more serious allegations against the government, call for protests and demonstrations to bring down the government.
Thailand more divided than ever.
PAD+ military won't let the government rule, but people won't vote for PAD. The D in PAD stands for democracy, but their leader can't take it when they don't vote for him.
Hard copy porn and porn concerts?
So in other words, prostitution and orgies?
"Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
See here (Torygraph via Guido, with relevant thanks). Essentially the issue is that there aren't many pro-EU establishment blogs (because even an ardent Europhile like myself finds it impossible to justify things like the CAP or the fact that the Eurocracy hasn't had its accounts signed off, via the Adam Smith Institute).
The European Union has already taken corrupt and borderline illegal action to suppress an anti-fraud journalist, Hans-Martin Tillack, working for Der Stern, because he had the audacity to protect whistle blowers on the Eurostat scandal.
All intents and purposes. Not intensive purposes.
Funny? I wasn't trying to be funny...
Well, you sure are pleasant.
I was referring to the exact same thing as you. While I don't support raids without warrants, I also don't support blocking of roads to make a deranged point.
You think I've been brainwashed by the statist media, and I think you've been brainwashed by crazy people on the internet.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
>>Whether you are pro-life or pro-choice really shouldn't HAVE anything to do with what president you vote for, that's a matter for the courts.
The Supreme Court is populated by judges nominated by the President and approved by congress. We currently have a left-wing of the Court that is eager to use foreign laws as a lens by which to view our constitution and views it as a "living, breathing document" which changes in its meaning according to the times we live in. By contrast, the Court has a right-wing population that interprets the document in terms of the Original Intent of its authors and sees the meanings within as rigid. The result is either document which can mean anything the reader wishes (a legal Rorschach inkblot test?) or it has specific meanings that cannot vary. I find the former alarming since our rights and the very nature of our government would then depend highly on who is currently in power and could change like the weather.
Rights are inalienable and God given, not granted by man, and the Constitution is a document designed to limit Government, not grant it unyielding power. But so long as there is a risk of judges willing to "read between the lines" and ignore fundamental measures (such as the 2nd and 10th Amendments), I would argue the election of the President is tremendously important to the state of law in America.
Yup. Here's how we do it in the States.
You'll never hear about 90+% of the shutdowns because the takedown order will come with a legal threat (from the FBI) against even talking about it. A gag order.
-Matt
"With web crackdowns like this becoming more and more frequent do you think we will start to see similar (overt) activities from US and European governments?"
No, and equivocating a place that gets rocked by military coups to the most stable, progressive democracies in the world leads me to think your world view is wildly fucked up.
The right to criticize the governments of the west tend to have been enshrined in law at the most basic level for decades or even *centuries*. Our right to criticize the government is one of the civic cornerstones of our culture. Nothing short of catastrophe, revolution, and fascism will change that. Get out of the basement and get some perspective.
To all who will provide examples of recent "fascist" tendencies, I say these aren't recent - they've always been with us and they always will be, because we're human, and humans are horrible shits. Luckily we have very mature systems of government that minimize our tendency to be shits to each other, like representative government, independent courts, and the right to disagree enshrined in fundamental laws.
An important thing to keep in mind is that these latest protests are pro-military, pro-monarchy and anti-democratic. And they actually do threaten the stability of the country and its lawfully elected government.
Basically the protesters don't like how the election turned out.
Not saying censorship is the solution, but its kind of hard to judge them as an outsider.
It won't be so much the government cracking down against *dissident* websites in the U.S.
Yes, only on /. is it "Insightful" to compare an attempt to foil software pirates in the U.S. to the attempted annihilation of expressing political beliefs by those in another country.
The last I checked, both of our major political parties thrive on protesting each other. Somehow I do not see this changing anytime soon. The right will want people protesting the left, the left will want people protesting the right, etc. This is kind of a tradition here.
Anyone who moderates up this kind of garbage really should be ashamed. People in Thailand are up a creek without a paddle and you actually encourage bringing a discussion of U.S. piracy into the thread. Shame.
What's next? GWB isn't going to leave office peacefully when the new guy is voted in and immediately begin leading an army of robots to take over the world? That sounds "Insightful". /rant
"With web crackdowns like this becoming more and more frequent, do you think we will start to see similar (overt) activities from US and European governments?"
No.
Despite the cries from people who read 1984 too many times, we very far from living in a totalitarian state. Bush at his worst doesn't have the kind of power to make this sort of stuff happen. All of our checks and balances and the antagonistic relationships of all the actors between the gov't and commercial enterprise would make such an effort futile, followed by becoming a meme on YouTube or an SNL sketch. Many people seem to think our gov't is something monolithic and centrally controlled. It just isn't. The vast majority of gov't positions are just jobs, not elected or appointed. Most of those jobs are filled by relatively normal people. Not square jawed conspirators. Real life just isn't that interesting.
If Obama is elected *crosses fingers* the "Patriot Act" will probably go away and many of W's abuses will be uncovered, or at least won't go on. Unless of course the tin foil hat crew is right and both parties work for the Colonel, the Gettys, the Rothschilds etc.
Or maybe i haven't smoked enough pot/watched enough X-Files.
Also, the gov't doesn't give a shit about you downloading the anarchist cookbook. You're not that interesting or important. i seriously hope that Obama's election will put and end to the ego-centrism and paranoia of the last 8 years. It's hilarious, but tiresome.
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