Slashdot Mirror
Will DRM Exterminate Spore?
AC Dude writes "Will an anti-DRM flash mob that's determined to give EA's latest sim game Spore a rock bottom rating on Amazon.com sink the game, or will Spore evolve and shed the DRM? Is this the beginning of the end for DRM-laden games?
'Over the past few years we've focused a lot on the music industry and how it has attempted to use DRM to control distribution. While DRM in this market segment has been unpopular, anti-DRM campaigns have largely fallen flat when it comes to attracting widespread public attention because of the fragmented nature of music. Games are a much easier target given the monolithic nature of their release — campaigners only need to spread the word on a handful of specific online outlets to reach a wide audience. A quick read through the Amazon reviews of Spore seems to suggest that the negative comments are already putting people off from buying the game.'"
and I'm a geek, a gamer (though mostly console) and a slashdot reader. The general public are screwed!
Spore is ace, and frankly if it wants to shaft my vista installation it's welcome to it. It's the only thing I use vista for.
Reminds me of Supreme Commander, they had 'securerom' with the original DVDs, but once installed it downloaded the usual patches, one of which disabled it. So, authenticate once and then you never have to worry about playing with the media in the drive.
I think its the best compromise we're likely to get.
I don't understand how the cost of developing DRM protection on games and then dealing with the support costs of having DRM can outweigh the "cost" of a few pirated copies of the game.
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If you don't believe in your cause enough to actually boycott the product, then you don't deserve to see your cause prevail.
Also, I believe it is counter productive. If you pirate the game, they will know people want the game enough to jump through hoops for it. EA will just try to make piracy more difficult than buying the product. You may be saying "Great, they will take out the DRM and the game will be easier to buy than pirate!" but you're wrong. They will litigate. Think of the RIAA and where they went when music piracy got too out of hand for them. Do you want to create another monster?
If you can prove that you can go without the product if they don't make it in a form you like, then they will be much more likely to remove DRM, because its the only enemy left.
I'm waiting until either the game comes out on Steam (the only DRM I'll tolerate, since it actually ASSISTS with roaming and such) or the DRM is removed. Bullshit, I'm not going to waste however much on a game that will only be reinstalled three times - especially given how it's marketed as a sandbox that you're likely to keep returning to.
You don't think that interested parties keep track of what's going on at the torrent sites? Granted, they may or may not be able to come up with a real number but if they can show their buddies in congress that it's one of the most active torrents going for any significant period of time they can easily make the case that "we would have had sales if they didn't have downloads."
I know someone is going to yammer on about how "people would have never have bought it, yadda yadda yadda" and that not everyone who downloaded it would have bought it, and this may very well be true but at least some of the torrent base was potential customers. The logic of "teh d0wnlo^d != l0st sales!!!onehundredeleven!!" doesn't go over well in the real world.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
DISCLAIMER: I'm a die-hard PC gamer. I go all the way back to the Commodore 64 and I've owned and I have had the privilege to play some of the best games of all time.
PC gaming is already in a fragile state. There is much competition from the Console market. Cheaper hardware, less compatibility problems, more stability and no DRM (at least until they go all download based). Assuming that DRM will eventually permeate every PC game, it could very well be the factor that pushes PC gaming over the edge. It just adds one more reason to choose Console over PC as a gaming platform. Soon, everyone will compare the two and most likely arrive at the following conclusions:
In today's day and age, consoles are unfortunately what most people want. They want to go buy a game at the store, plug it into their console and start playing right away. As much as I hate to say it being a long-time PC gamer, this is just one more nail in the coffin for PC gaming.
If the PC gaming platform is going to be saved there are many issues that need to be addressed. Gaming PC's need to be cheaper to be competitive with the price point of Console rivals. There has to be some sort of compromise about DRM. There has to be a way to raise the level of quality (stability, hardware support) of PC releases. Most PC releases, especially console ports, seem like they were just slapped together. Lots of products are released that are buggy as all hell and you have wait for 2 or 3 patches to get to play the game properly.
I sincerely hope that PC gaming lives on but right now it seems like it's fading away.
We'll make great pets
THQ (the publisher) forced Gas Powered Games (the developer) to use Securom. And the "law" part is just a turn of phrase in contemporary English, meaning they followed the exact wording of their contract. Thus allowing them to remove it later through a patch without breaking their agreement with THQ.
"Now you know, and knowing is half the battle!"
My father in law was an avid PC gamer too. Then he had two games in a row fail to work on his machine due to weird DRM incompatabilities with his hardware. We could never figure out exactly what the problem was, since he wasn't doing anything all that strange and although it was a custom-built system, it was all pretty standard hardware.
He solved the problem by buying an Xbox 360.
He expects that if he buys a game and puts the disk into his machine, it should run. DRM caused that to not happen. To me, it doesn't seem like an unrealistic request (and the Xbox has no problem doing it).
And people wonder what is killing PC gaming? Its the companies that make PC games.
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
The problem with the ANTI-DRM movement is the fact they don't separate themselves from good Non-DRM advantages vs Bad Non-DRM advantages.
Being able to copy a game and give it to a friend (who may give it to an other friend or post online) is exactly what they want to stop, they want people to pay for their copy. These aren't Not-For-Profit companies, They want to make as much money from their product as possible. If you don't understand that then move to Cuba. So any debate that goes I wouldn't get it unless it is free, will fall on deaf ears. Or Piracy as a marketing method, for the next version (that is why they give free demos).
In order to fight DRM you need to convince people of some real advantage that not having DRM will have to the Legal Copies Purchased owners who run on software and hardware that they officially support.
Back in them old days of the 1980s when games fit on a Floppy disk they had copy proctection on it. Normally putting a bad sector on a disk causing the disk copy method to skip that bad track. Allowing them to fairly successfully prevent illegal copying of programs. (pre internet day made it hard for someone to find the crack) however this only lasted a couple years and they went back to normal files (non Copy Protected). Why did this happen because the Copy Protection had a lot of flaws for legit use of their software.
1. Floppy Disks didn't last very well so a Backup Copy was considered good practice, where the game was actually normally run on the backup disk keeping the master disk safe. So Copy protection put their media at risk (chances are people wouldn't buy a new copy if it was gone)
2. Hard Drives were becoming popular they loaded faster and easier to and cleaner (no mess of disks flying around) People wanted to use this mass storage mechanism to run their products faster then before.
3. Upgrades those 5 1/4 disks drive systems were being replaced with 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 inch disk as well game size for new versions have gotten bigger. Wasting space for DRM was not efficient, on those small disks and people can often take 5 1/4 disks and put it on one 3 1/2 . As well they could see the end of the 5 1/4 disk so by forcing Copy Protection means once the drive goes so does their program.
None of this issue back then were about fluffy ideals (or as Fox news would call them, Crazy Hypi-Commi-Liberal UnAmerican ideals.) You need to prove that DRM is bad for the company and effecting its bottom line or will effect it soon. This thing on Amazon may or may not last. However people have been getting better at reviews and sifting threw the Glowing Reviews or Negitive Reviews and finding the middle stuff that actually give a good story of the product.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Corporations don't think quite the same way as individuals. The best way to reach an individual person is to convince them to do the right thing, and then morality and personal pride will often compel them to take your advice (provided you were convincing). When you're dealing with a big corporation, you have to bear in mind the fact that corporations don't work with pride or morals, they work with the bottom line. Ultimately, what you have to do is convince them that your way is the way that will make them more money, and if a boycott or bad ratings are the only way of doing that, then that's what you need to do.
I myself purchased the game, downloaded and installed the (cracked) pirated copy, then replaced the serial number in the system registry with the legitimate registration number. Illegal? Probably not, since I already own the software and I'm just downloading a backup. Breach of license? Definitely. That said, I bought their damn game. I don't intend to allow them to punish me for doing the right thing.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The old Maxis "games" (SimCity, SimEarth, SimLife, and so on) had a bit in their manuals about how they were toys, not games. You had to make up a goal if you wanted to actually play a game with them. It seems like Wright still has that philosophy about design, and people who liked the old Maxis toys and the Sims will probably like Spore too.
It's only propaganda if it's intentionally hiding/twisting the truth. So long as an adequate explanation of the single star is included (i.e. a description of the DRM and why it's a problem for the reviewer) I don't believe it falls under that category.
You might argue that the lopsided nature of the "flash mob" twists truth by weighting the overall rating in an abnormal manner. That's a tougher, more interesting argument.
Thunderclone: ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE! ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE!
People forget that the Amazon Comment storm stopped Quicken from continuing to impliment similar draconian DRM on TurboTax. In fact said comments and reduced sales actually caused them to reverse previous policies. They completely removed the DRM and actually allowed via the EULA more copy rights to the owner than previously existed in the next years version. I was part of that boycott, choosing that year to use TaxCut instead of TurboTax. Not only that but the executives at Quicken got the wake up call that the guys selling them the DRM were snake oil salesmen.
Don't discount the power of a comment boycott. It hurts a publisher in the pocketbook directly by informing customers of the DRM before purchase, rather than after. These potential customers now aware of the problems before purchase then avoid the game entirely choosing not to deal with the problem. Even if there are still sales the real power of the boycott can only be seen in the total sales, not the day to day sales. Amazon's comments are a powerful medium to educate consumers. Amazon comments in the case of quicken caused a media storm and dramatically hurt sales of the DRM laden TurboTax.
Based on previous comments from the executives of EA it will probably not make an impact on their decisions and motives, unlike Quicken. But if it keeps happening on every game they distribute then they will either vacate the PC game market or quit using DRM. Both scenarios are good for PC gamers as they are currently the biggest DRM publisher and PC Game developers will choose to use other publishers.
There is a way to support Will Wright, and screw EA.
Buy the game. Install the DRM free torrent. Call EA tech support at least once a day with DRM issues relating to the game. Will gets his payoff for designing a groundbreaking game, EA gets ginourmous support bills.
Hit 'em in the pocketbook, but don't suppress innovation.
Why, yes, I AM a Pagan Libertarian.
The DRM isn't helping, but the biggest problem with Spore is it's a huge disappointment.
I don't know about you, but I played through most of the game in one sitting. I started out as a little googly-eyed bacteria, and got to the space exploration stage. At that point, I got so intensely bored I just stopped playing.
There isn't anywhere near enough variety in the game to keep things interesting. The only challenge is patience, there is no skill involved, and very little thinking. The various creatures are interesting to see at first, but after a dozen races they all start looking the same. It's hard to specialize your critter, because the parts look different but have very similar stats. You can get the fastest legs, the meanest teeth, the strongest arms, all on the same char. There are no tradeoffs.
What's worse is one stage has little or no bearing on the next one. It feels less like evolution and more like 5 mini-games bundled together. Your race's appearance carries over, but the abilities/stats become irrelevant. It is difficult to lose in any phase, and downright impossible in some, thanks to unlimited lives.
I think we all got hyped up about the potential, but reality (EA) came along and made sure this game was anything BUT epic. They probably did this so they can release expansion packs later on, because had they delivered the game we thought we were getting, there would be no room for expansion.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
I only bought the game yesterday and only made it through the tribal stage, but the GP is pretty spot on from what I've seen so far.
The cell stage gives you some minor customization options, but really it's flOw. Replace customization with moving on to the next "level" in flOw and playing as a new creature type and you have the same game.
I initially had problems with the creature stage and was trying to tactically equip my creature to be able to befriend other creatures better. But then I realized that I should just add a companion (I forget what they're called right now). At that point the stage became trivial. I was a big fat bird with no offensive abilities other than bite and I and my recruits were destroying anything but the giant elite creatures. With one button.
The tribal stage was so short and shallow I'm surprised it was even in the game. It DOESN'T matter what kind of weapon you use. I had access to the flame sticks and axes and was planning an assault on the green village. When I got there I realized that I forgot to equip axes. Didn't seem to make a difference. I destroyed the villagers a few seconds slower than I could have I guess.
I spent 2-3 hours on the creature stage trying to collect parts for customization even after I was able to move on to the next stage. I didn't realize that this customization had almost zero effect on the gameplay that would follow and was mostly for aesthetic purposes.
I was disappointed that the creature stage throws out any semblance of evolution or heredity. When mating to create offspring you can completely throw out every single part that the parents had and create a completely new creature. And the entire tribe morphs into that new creature. Some restrictions or forced incremental steps would have been nice here.
As I said I'm about to embark on the civilization stage, so maybe that will improve my opinion. Right now I'd say the game is... neat, but I can't see myself playing it over and over again. These first stages have felt like flash games (not even the best flash games) with a great creature editor tacked on.