Will DRM Exterminate Spore?

AC Dude writes "Will an anti-DRM flash mob that's determined to give EA's latest sim game Spore a rock bottom rating on Amazon.com sink the game, or will Spore evolve and shed the DRM? Is this the beginning of the end for DRM-laden games? 'Over the past few years we've focused a lot on the music industry and how it has attempted to use DRM to control distribution. While DRM in this market segment has been unpopular, anti-DRM campaigns have largely fallen flat when it comes to attracting widespread public attention because of the fragmented nature of music. Games are a much easier target given the monolithic nature of their release — campaigners only need to spread the word on a handful of specific online outlets to reach a wide audience. A quick read through the Amazon reviews of Spore seems to suggest that the negative comments are already putting people off from buying the game.'"

Comments

http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[Anonymous Coward]

http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn you! DRM stopped me getting a p1st fr0st here, I had to stop and enter my Slashdot authentication key due to a change in Web browser.

Can't you lot see what damage DRM is doing to the Slashdot community? Without snarky off-topic first posts this site is doomed!

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[Anonymous Coward]

If you don't believe in your cause enough to actually boycott the product, then you don't deserve to see your cause prevail.

Also, I believe it is counter productive. If you pirate the game, they will know people want the game enough to jump through hoops for it. EA will just try to make piracy more difficult than buying the product. You may be saying "Great, they will take out the DRM and the game will be easier to buy than pirate!" but you're wrong. They will litigate. Think of the RIAA and where they went when music piracy got too out of hand for them. Do you want to create another monster?

If you can prove that you can go without the product if they don't make it in a form you like, then they will be much more likely to remove DRM, because its the only enemy left.

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[MightyYar]

How the heck is EA gonna know whether he runs it or not?

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[cliffski]

Excellent point. This is a very silly way to 'protest' about DRM. The best way to get companies to stop using DRM is to reason with them, contact them, and let them know how you feel. I can tell you 100% that no matter how many people would pirate my games, it wouldn't convince me to abandon DRM. What convinced me to do it was actually reading through what the people had to say when they emailed me on the topic.

All rating the game badly will do is make amazon's ratings look unusable, piss off everyone who worked on the game (many of which oppose DRM no doubt), and reinforce the mentality that those who oppose DRM are doing so for childish reasons. Well-thought out, considered and intelligent emails to the publishers and developers will achieve a hundred times more, as will boycotting the game (both legal and illegal copies) and only purchasing DRM-free games.

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[east coast]

You don't think that interested parties keep track of what's going on at the torrent sites? Granted, they may or may not be able to come up with a real number but if they can show their buddies in congress that it's one of the most active torrents going for any significant period of time they can easily make the case that "we would have had sales if they didn't have downloads."

I know someone is going to yammer on about how "people would have never have bought it, yadda yadda yadda" and that not everyone who downloaded it would have bought it, and this may very well be true but at least some of the torrent base was potential customers. The logic of "teh d0wnlo^d != l0st sales!!!onehundredeleven!!" doesn't go over well in the real world.

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[MightyYar]

I think your solution, like other nice ideas, requires too many humans to change :)

For other well-known examples, see communism and abstinence.

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[not already in use]

Still blows my mind that so few people know about httpS://thepiratebay.org....

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[Araneas]

Don't email - spend a stamp and snail mail your comments.

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[alta]

Wow, 3k seeds and 77k leachers... Sounds like a succesful game.

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[NeutronCowboy]

Random question: what's the difference between a well-thought out email sent directly to the publisher, and a well-thought out comment posted to Amazon?

Random answer: it's much more difficult to find the address of someone who cares at the publisher.

However, I like the approach. I will not buy Spore (partially because of the bad reviews, but also partially because of the DRM), but there is no easy way for me tell EA why I didn't buy it. Leaving a comment is a simple way for me to tell EA that piracy has nothing to do with the game doing badly - Securom, on the other hand, has quite a bit to do with it.

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[MBGMorden]

That's not going to prevent much though. Secure transmissions like that help against hackers and ISP's trying to pry into your data. A company wanting to know who is transferring a torrent is going to connect to the swarm itself, not the http page for the site. Once there, even for encrypted data, the IP addresses of all parties involved will be shown because each client needs that information to download and/or update to those clients.

So in general, I'm just not sure how HTTPS helps this problem at all.

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[Lendrick]

Corporations don't think quite the same way as individuals. The best way to reach an individual person is to convince them to do the right thing, and then morality and personal pride will often compel them to take your advice (provided you were convincing). When you're dealing with a big corporation, you have to bear in mind the fact that corporations don't work with pride or morals, they work with the bottom line. Ultimately, what you have to do is convince them that your way is the way that will make them more money, and if a boycott or bad ratings are the only way of doing that, then that's what you need to do.

I myself purchased the game, downloaded and installed the (cracked) pirated copy, then replaced the serial number in the system registry with the legitimate registration number. Illegal? Probably not, since I already own the software and I'm just downloading a backup. Breach of license? Definitely. That said, I bought their damn game. I don't intend to allow them to punish me for doing the right thing.

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[init100]

piss off everyone who worked on the game

They should be clever enough to understand that the criticism is against the DRM, not the game itself.

many of which oppose DRM no doubt

Then they should not take the campaign personally, but understand that it is aimed at their publisher.

But anyway, I guess you are right. For example, Gas Powered Games released a patch to Supreme Commander a fairly short time after the release that removed the copy protection. I really liked this move, and it contributed significantly to my decision to buy the game.

reinforce the mentality that those who oppose DRM are doing so for childish reasons.

I read a few of the "reviews", and they were not childish. They were reasonable complaints against a draconian DRM scheme, fairly comparing the so-called "purchase" with a rental scheme. What's childish about wanting to play the game even after EA stops supporting it? I still sometimes play games ten years old.

Well-thought out, considered and intelligent emails to the publishers and developers will achieve a hundred times more

I would surely do that, if I thought that it had any chance of actually being read. But unfortunately, I don't think that it would, so why waste my time?

as will boycotting the game (both legal and illegal copies)

That's what I do. I really looked forward to Spore, but the DRM is a showstopper. I won't buy the game until it is put in the bargain bin for $10, or (extremely unlikely) they remove the DRM. I will also not pirate the game.

and only purchasing DRM-free games.

Unfortunately, those are few and far between. I can accept games like Supreme Commander, which are initially copy-protected, but which have the protection removed by the game developers themselves afterward (as the DRM is usually demanded by the publisher, not the developers).

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[c0d3g33k]

Childish or not, it's attention getting, and sometimes that's what it takes to drive the message home.

I've tried carefully crafted and reasoned emails, and even 'traditional' letters using paper and a stamp. I've written about why I didn't purchase the game (DRM), why I would enjoy playing it, and how much I would enjoy giving them my money if a mutually acceptable transaction were possible. I've praised companies in writing for doing something I support (reasonable protection, Linux support) and crediting that for my purchase. I've explained how I've been buying computer games since buying King's Quest for my Tandy 1000 and have several large bookshelves full of game boxes I've accumulated over the years. I've explained why my purchase of new games suddenly dwindled to nearly nothing as a result of DRM and why I support companies such as Introversion who don't use draconian DRM. I've explained why I haven't stopped playing games because I passed out of the target demographic and how I have more liquid assets available now than when I was young and poor. I've tried it all, and it has all fallen on deaf ears.

I've been thanked for my thoughtful comments, but educated in the business realities that make my position untenable, though regrettable. I've been accused of being irrelevant, since I'm only one person and what does the loss of my $50 mean anyway - there are plenty of people who buy the game so who am I to question things. Hell, I've been accused of pirating just because I stated that I won't purchase a game due to DRM or other factors, since I must obviously be incapable of resisting the impulse of playing a hot game (eg. Bioshock) because no gamer would willing avoid playing (so if I didn't buy it, I must have pirated it).

In other words, the reasoned approach has fallen on deaf ears, at least based on the fact that DRM and such has become increasingly more draconian as sales continue to dwindle for PC games.

It's very difficult for even a motivated individual to have any impact because even statements like "I'll never buy one of your products again as long as you continue this undesirable practice" have no real meaning. What do I matter to the bottom line?

I've concluded that organized efforts are more likely to get attention because the potential impact is much greater.

Question the methods if you will, but I think people have figured out that organizing is the only way to get companies to listen.

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[hairyfeet]

But you seem to be forgetting that buying congress critters seems to be the FIRST thing they go for,no matter what the data says! Do you HONESTLY think that if we got a massive boycott going that EA would actually BELIEVE that folks weren't buying their precious IP because of their DRM crap(and for the record I planned to buy Spore but now I won't. Limited activations on something I paid for is bullshit). No,what they would do is go to congress and say "They must be stealing the game from those Darknet things we have been hearing about! Or they are so busy stealing the games that don't use our excellent 'Secure Starforce Buttraper V.2' that we are losing sales. Lock down the tubes and make Super DRM mandatory!" And the congress critters will go "Ohhh! How much money? Really?" and we will have yet another draconian copyright law.

So steal the game,don't steal the game. The outcome will sadly be the same. The only thing we can really do is to scream bloody murder on every site like this one and Amazon ratings in the hope we give enough ammo for the developers to go to their bosses and say "This DRM crap is hurting our bottom line" because just as the record companies still think their numbers are going down due to piracy and not that everyone thinks the pre-packaged sh*t band o' the week ain't worth having,so will the game companies never believe that their new "Secure Starforce Buttraper V.2" is the reason gamers are avoiding their precious IP like a dose of the clap. But as always this is my 02c,YMMV

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[mopower70]

I respectfully disagree. Everyone knows Amazon's rating system is usable and worth reading already. Game designers know that and so do customers. Writing a well written poor review panning your game because of this feature is like writing an open letter to the manufacturer. If I was in charge of a product that received that much well thought out, well written bad press on such an influential site as Amazon, I'd be looking for some heads on a platter.

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[scubamage]

Excellent point. This is a very silly way to 'protest' about DRM. The best way to get companies to stop using DRM is to reason with them, contact them, and let them know how you feel. I can tell you 100% that no matter how many people would pirate my games, it wouldn't convince me to abandon DRM. What convinced me to do it was actually reading through what the people had to say when they emailed me on the topic.

All rating the game badly will do is make amazon's ratings look unusable, piss off everyone who worked on the game (many of which oppose DRM no doubt), and reinforce the mentality that those who oppose DRM are doing so for childish reasons. Well-thought out, considered and intelligent emails to the publishers and developers will achieve a hundred times more, as will boycotting the game (both legal and illegal copies) and only purchasing DRM-free games.

No it isn't. I'm pretty sure the way capitalism works is by speaking with your money. These are people who are vocally boycotting the game, and explaining why. Also, if you look at the actual 1 star ratings, they all give said ratings for genuine, factual reasons. If they were accusing the game of killing puppies, or eating babies, then I would say its juvenile. However, they aren't. They're stating that it installs software similar to a rootkit. They're explaining that if the servers ever go online (as they did in the case of PlaysForSure and Yahoo Music) that you lose all ability to play your game. These aren't infantile gripes - they're very valid concerns from their consumer base.

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[TheGeneration]

Why stop at Amazon, let's take it to every retailer with a review page:

Best Buy Spore Product Page

EBGames Spore Product Page

Toys R Us Spore Product Page

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[mxs]

Excellent point. This is a very silly way to 'protest' about DRM.

Indeed. Of course, the OP just posted a link, without giving any justification -- he might not want to protest the DRM at all.

The best way to get companies to stop using DRM is to reason with them, contact them, and let them know how you feel.

Been there, done that. EA does not give a fuck. EA's "customer service" representatives give even less of a fuck. There are more reasonable people out there, and there are more reasonable companies who are getting it right from the get-go, too. Those do deserve to be supported.

I can tell you 100% that no matter how many people would pirate my games, it wouldn't convince me to abandon DRM. What convinced me to do it was actually reading through what the people had to say when they emailed me on the topic.

What made you choose DRM in the first place ? Was it just a knee-jerk reaction and marketing department mathematics ? Nowadays there are several companies trying to sell DRM technologies (and succeeding) -- I wonder what their marketing pitch is.

All rating the game badly will do is make amazon's ratings look unusable,

Why ? If the rating is driven by the customer having a genuine gripe with the product and the way the company deals with its customers, then a bad rating does seem to be a perfectly valid way to represent that -- especially considering that you /have/ to deal with the company after buying the product -- say when you upgraded three of your computer's components.

piss off everyone who worked on the game (many of which oppose DRM no doubt),

Quite frankly : good. Not to slight Will Wright here, but the way the game is delivered is also part of the experience you deliver. An excellent movie with crappy cutting, post-production, or delivered on bad film stock deserves to get bad ratings, too -- even though the acting may have been spectacular.

Amazon allows you to post comments. You can elaborate on why the game got one star and not five.

and reinforce the mentality that those who oppose DRM are doing so for childish reasons.

I can't subscribe to that notion. Besides, if the company delivering the game feels I am childish and should not be taken seriously -- good riddance. I can spend my money elsewhere, at a company that will actually treat me with respect.

Well-thought out, considered and intelligent emails to the publishers and developers will achieve a hundred times more,

In some cases, it may. In the VAST MAJORITY of cases, your mails will be filed away under "handled customer support queries", or thrown straight in the wastebin. We had this discussion with EA on Mass Effect. Guess what. Nothing changed. They just don't care. They know the gripes, they know the reasons for them, I assume they have intelligent people there who understand the issues having been brought forward. The only thing I can conclude from their actions is that they don't care.

as will boycotting the game (both legal and illegal copies) and only purchasing DRM-free games.

That will actually help. (I can't see how boycotting illegitimate copies helps in this case, but it's not a good thing to do for other reasons)

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[charlesj68]

May Cthulhu bless you!

Ahhh ... is that an expression of thanks ... or damnation?

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[Firehed]

Yes, and once again my whole point was that it's damn near impossible to get in touch with the appropriate people at EA, whereas support@someindiedeveloper.com could plausibly get forwarded along to the next cube over (the lead developer).

It would be very ignorant to assume that nobody at EA reads slashdot or shops at Amazon. It only takes one guy to start the "hey, did you see this?" chain, but when you're dealing with a company the size of EA, this has to be a fairly major thing, rather than the irate ramblings of one non-customer to the support department.

Of course, it's perfectly conceivable that they just don't care. A former employer doesn't list any of their prices on their website, and despite all of the people bitching about it through the contact form on the site, management had their minds made up. I doubt a lot of sales were lost as most of the people complaining couldn't have come close to affording the product, but it would have at least saved the sales team a whole lot of wasted time and effort by allowing people to disqualify themselves rather than wasting hours on the phone with the sales guys who had real prospects to chase down.

Obviously the sales model is a bit different between a $50 game and a five-figure piece of software, but my experience has almost universally been that the bigger companies get, the less care about what customers have to say. At least for games, that's a pretty significant mistake to make.

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[Anachragnome]

Fuck that. I dislike DRM as much as you do.

But, I fucking HATE disinformation regardless of where it comes from, more so then DRM. Even for a just cause. You're simply dishing out your OWN recipe of propaganda, fucking jerk.

I prefer to speak with my money, or in this case, the lack of it.

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[electrictroy]

BACK TO TOPIC: Look at all the negative reviews on amazon (link) : http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B000FKBCX4

I didn't understand the issue until I read this: "You get three installs. That's it. No install returned for uninstallation, or anything else. You install it three times, then you're out $50." I agree one-hundred percent. As a gamer who still plays ancient games like Red Storm Rising or Pirates or Populous, the last thing I want is a game that will stop working after I upgrade to my next computer (about two years time).

I want something to keep forever, not a rental.

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[stg]

Interesting that you mention Supreme Commander...

I bought it on-line, as a download on GamersGate, a couple of weeks ago. After downloading (5 GB) and installing, it asked for the DVD. Upon contacting GamersGate, they immediately issued a refund. They also removed the game from sale at the site - looks like mine wasn't the only complaint.

I can only imagine no one remembered to try the game out when releasing it as a download. This is a very silly way to lose money...

BTW, I also won't buy Spore with that DRM grade.

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[MeanderingMind]

It's only propaganda if it's intentionally hiding/twisting the truth. So long as an adequate explanation of the single star is included (i.e. a description of the DRM and why it's a problem for the reviewer) I don't believe it falls under that category.

You might argue that the lopsided nature of the "flash mob" twists truth by weighting the overall rating in an abnormal manner. That's a tougher, more interesting argument.

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[AmberBlackCat]

I don't know about computer games, but I think it is perfectly legitimate for my Amazon rating for CD's to be affected by DRM. I basically buy compact discs to feed my iPod. So any disc that won't play in the computer is of little value to me, and deserves a 1-star rating, especially since they don't always mention that it's not technically a compact disc.

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[paganizer]

There is a way to support Will Wright, and screw EA.
Buy the game. Install the DRM free torrent. Call EA tech support at least once a day with DRM issues relating to the game. Will gets his payoff for designing a groundbreaking game, EA gets ginourmous support bills.
Hit 'em in the pocketbook, but don't suppress innovation.

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[Goldberg's Pants]

Plus these people are COMPLETELY WRONG! After you burn the 3 installs you have to contact EA. While it can be a tedious process and you may have to wait a while, you are NOT OUT $50 WHEN YOU'RE DONE WITH 3 INSTALLS. If you're going to start an organized protest against Electronic Arts at least get your facts right.

Don't get me wrong. EA suck. I bought Spore yesterday, and the first thing I did when I installed it was to use the crack. I'm happily running the game on 4 machines, none of which have any issues, and I've burned zero of three activations in doing so. I almost never buy EA stuff because I don't like supporting them, but my love for Will Wright's stuff outweighs their evil in this case for me.

The protest is a great idea to draw attention, but really, GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT FIRST! Just like I keep reading supposedly knowledgeable people saying it's got Starforce!

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[Joebert]

So the games creator uses EA as a publisher because he likes to watch the people who play the game get screwed over, is that it ?

Come on, if you kill the distribution channels how are you supposed to get the game ?

If you don't have muscle men making sure the game creators get paid, you're not going to have any good game creators left after awhile.

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[JCSoRocks]

After seeing a few stories about EA support like this I have my doubts about whether or not you'd get any additional installs or just how pain free that process would be.

How many do you get / how often do you have to call before they cut you off? I rebuild my machine pretty regularly for one reason or another (hardware upgrades, "cleaning up", playing with different configurations...) and I generally reinstall all of my favorite games immediately after I do. I don't want to have to jump through a hoop every time I want to install a game I purchased. It's like calling GM and asking them if I can drive my car every morning after the first 1,000 times I've driven it. It's madness.

Steam is the exact opposite of this ridiculous garbage. Steam is actually my favorite way to purchase games now... I just buy a game once and then every time I rebuild I just leave my computer to download and install all of my games again overnight - simple.

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[shayne321]

From what I've read I think people understand this perfectly well. If your hard drive crashes 3 times in 6 months you'll have to start calling EA to get your game reactivated.. Annoying, but not earth-shattering. Here's what I think people are up in arms about: what happens if you've burned through your 3 installs then want to install your game again in 3 years, when Spore 2 is out and EA decides they will no longer activate Spore 1? What about in 5 years time when Microsoft acquires EA and decides they will focus exclusively on the Xbox 2014 and will no longer activate PC games? What about in 8 years time when IPv6 is common on the internet and spore still requires an IPv4 network for activation? What about in 10 years time when Madden 2018 is such a bloated pile of suck that it collapses upon itself creating a super-massive black hole which swallows all of EA? Ok, so the last one is just an unprovoked shot at Madden, but the point is companies and technology change. Depending on a company to willingly activate a game you've *purchased* for $50+ effectively means you're renting the game. THAT'S why people are making this a Big Deal.

The other side to this is people are now fully aware that people pirating the game simply grab the torrent, install, and go. It's the legitimate users who have shelled out the $50 that are jumping through the hoops. So in this case DRM has done NOTHING to thwart pirating, and everything to annoy EA's customer base.

Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0

[Anonymous Coward]

Look... we all have a choice of purchasing the game or DLing a copy off of the internet.

I'm not sure if you noticed this, but believe it or not there is actually a third choice here: neither buying the game nor downloading it. I know, I know, it's a crazy idea. But this way, you can not only vote with your wallet, but you also don't have to do anything illegal or immoral.

Of course, you end up missing out on the game this way. But that's ok, because this is entirely about the principle of the thing, not about you wanting to get free stuff you don't deserve. Right? Surely you'd be outraged enough with the DRM to actually stage a proper boycott, and not this fake "I don't want it...but I'll still get it anyway" boycott, that I'm sure only applies to those other, evil pirates, and not the decent, respectable pirates like yourself.

It might.

[LWATCDR]

I really want this game but I will wait until a patch is available that turns off the DRM.
Some would call it a crack but if I buy the game then I say it is a patch.
A piece of code that improves the program is too my mind a patch.

I have have had more problems using DRM software that I have paid for than I would ever have hunting down pirated copies.

Companies have got to learn to stop treating paying customers and criminals.

Re:It might.

[gbjbaanb]

Reminds me of Supreme Commander, they had 'securerom' with the original DVDs, but once installed it downloaded the usual patches, one of which disabled it. So, authenticate once and then you never have to worry about playing with the media in the drive.

I think its the best compromise we're likely to get.

Re:It might.

[Subliminalbits]

Supreme Commander was a case where the developers were forced to ship games with Securerom, but they had no requirements placed upon them about removing it via a patch. Since that was the case, they abided by the letter of the law and then immediately stripped it off.

Re:It might.

[McBeer]

As with most things, a crack to remove the DRM has been out since day one. Enjoy.

Re:It might.

[caramelcarrot]

I'm waiting until either the game comes out on Steam (the only DRM I'll tolerate, since it actually ASSISTS with roaming and such) or the DRM is removed. Bullshit, I'm not going to waste however much on a game that will only be reinstalled three times - especially given how it's marketed as a sandbox that you're likely to keep returning to.

Re:It might.

[Cheesey]

Some Steam games have both the Steam DRM and something else. Bioshock, for example, came with SecuROM regardless of whether you got it from Steam or a physical shop. (This is why the demo didn't work on my PC, and this is why I didn't buy it.)

Like the DRM used in games consoles, the Steam DRM is tolerable because it works properly, and the rules that it imposes are consistent across nearly all of the games (Bioshock being an exception). We do not see this "flash mob" rating all the XBox games as 1: why not? Because the DRM in that case doesn't get in the way.

Many of the problems with DRM can be solved by standardisation, but the standard must not only involve a single DRM platform for all software, but also a single online service for authentication. This would be a trusted third party - like a bank. It would assure us that purchases will continue to function after the publisher goes out of business. Steam does both of these things quite well, although we are all assuming that Valve won't go bankrupt and sell its IP to a company with less of a clue.

Re:It might.

[Duffy13]

THQ (the publisher) forced Gas Powered Games (the developer) to use Securom. And the "law" part is just a turn of phrase in contemporary English, meaning they followed the exact wording of their contract. Thus allowing them to remove it later through a patch without breaking their agreement with THQ.

Re:It might.

[Subliminalbits]

The game was release Feb 16, 2007 and the no SecuROM patch was released on March 5, 2007. That wasn't as short as I had thought, but then again its not as long as you had claimed either.

Re:It might.

[SleepingWaterBear]

Many of the problems with DRM can be solved by standardisation, but the standard must not only involve a single DRM platform for all software, but also a single online service for authentication. This would be a trusted third party - like a bank. It would assure us that purchases will continue to function after the publisher goes out of business. Steam does both of these things quite well, although we are all assuming that Valve won't go bankrupt and sell its IP to a company with less of a clue.

Standardized DRM would do nothing to fix the primary problem with DRM, which is that it doesn't work. If you standardize DRM it will be no time at all before we have standardized cracks. Besides, there's no particular reason to assume that some third party will be more stable or reliable than game publishers.

Given that their basic business model is broken (providing a service that makes products more difficult to use while failing to prevent piracy) I would in fact go so far as to say that any company like Steam is unlikely to be around in a year or two. The solution for game companies is to find a way to sell something other than the program itself which only they can provide. Given the degree to which games are becoming integrated with the internet, this isn't such an impossible idea.

Re:It might.

[Emperor Zombie]

And this time I don't feel quilty one bit.

I guess you're not a quilt then.

Re:It might.

[harl]

Read your license agreement again. You rented the game. You didn't even get a discount for buying a crippled copy. They can cut you off at any time.

Steam is the furthest you can get from acceptable DRM. Please see the stories on here about people loosing their content because the company they bought it from decided to shut things down.

Hey

[PunkOfLinux]

I agree. DRM on games sucks. Thanks to DRM on games, it's nearly impossible to play certain games on Linux with Wine, because things like SecuROM don't like Wine. Pretty worthless 'rights management' if it prevents a legitimate customer from using it.

Re:Hey

[Just Some Guy]

Pretty worthless 'rights management' if it prevents a legitimate customer from using it.

Many of us define DRM more accurately as "digital restrictions management".

Re:Hey

[Just Some Guy]

Technically, you probably have no right to play the game on WINE.

Strangely enough, I don't see that contract clause on the outside of the box so that I can give informed consent.

Re:Hey

[bluemonq]

No, no, no; you've got it all wrong. It's not your rights that are being managed; it's the company's.

Re:Hey

[XanC]

Well, on the list of system requirements, I bet it says "Windows". I don't think it says "an implementation of the Windows environment".

It's totally stupid for it not to work, but if you go by what's on the box...

Re:Hey

[Just Some Guy]

Listing supported configurations is one thing, and honestly, I don't expect them to care whether it runs under Wine. That's a totally different issue of whether you're legally allowed to try to run it under Wine, as the GP poster is claiming.

Re:Hey

[PhilHibbs]

No right to run it on Linux? Like you have to be granted that right by someone? Do I have the right to use it as a coaster, a frisbee, or a shaving mirror? Where are these rights listed? Your attitude that they have the power to grant or restricts our rights is fundamentally flawed, you've fallen right into their trap and assumed that copyright holders are our benevolent dictators.

I hadn't heard about SecuROM

[Nursie]

and I'm a geek, a gamer (though mostly console) and a slashdot reader. The general public are screwed!

Spore is ace, and frankly if it wants to shaft my vista installation it's welcome to it. It's the only thing I use vista for.

Re:I hadn't heard about SecuROM

[Reapman]

My understanding however is it actually limits the number of installs your allowed to do. EVER. I can't play it since i'll be outa the country for a bit, but when I do I'll be picking up the game and installing whatever crack is necessary so I never have to worry about this DRM.

The idiots

[Anonymous Coward]

The server side community is an integral part of the game. What do they need DRM for? Are they so used to annoying their customers that they just added the DRM out of habit?

Re:The idiots

[thermian]

The server side community is an integral part of the game. What do they need DRM for? Are they so used to annoying their customers that they just added the DRM out of habit?

Because they are too big as a company for people with a clue to make policy decisions. The DRM choice will have been made by upper management who weren't really understanding the impact it will have.

After all, they still think DRM is a good thing.

The DRM has made me certain I will not be buying this game. Its no loss anyway, there are plenty of games out there, and if the concept is good, someone else will do something similar soon enough.

Re:The idiots

[_xeno_]

The DRM has made me certain I will not be buying this game.

No kidding. I'm going to skip Spore due to the DRM.

Its no loss anyway, there are plenty of games out there, and if the concept is good, someone else will do something similar soon enough.

And this, right here, is really the heart of the matter. It's a freaking game. Entertainment. It's not a necessity. I don't need Spore. I may want to play it, but if they make it painful to use, then forget it. It's not like I really lose anything. I'll just do something else.

When will publishers realize that? It's not like we have to play their game. It's just entertainment, and there are a million other options out there. I'm not going to blow money on something just to be treated like a criminal.

What is this about DRM?

[Alonzo Meatman]

All the reviews I've read about Spore have said the same thing - great toy, boring game. I'd think that would be far more likely to repel potential buyers than some scuffle over DRM.

Re:What is this about DRM?

[Lord Ender]

So was Sim City a toy or a game? And did it matter?

Re:What is this about DRM?

[Sefer]

The old Maxis "games" (SimCity, SimEarth, SimLife, and so on) had a bit in their manuals about how they were toys, not games. You had to make up a goal if you wanted to actually play a game with them. It seems like Wright still has that philosophy about design, and people who liked the old Maxis toys and the Sims will probably like Spore too.

Re:What about my legal rights?

[Constantine XVI]

If you read the EULA, EA owns your creations. You only get the rights to use them as they see fit.

Nope, neither.

[Anonymous Coward]

Will an anti-DRM flash mob that's determined to give EA's latest sim game Spore a rock bottom rating on Amazon.com sink the game, or will Spore evolve and shed the DRM?

Neither. This strategy will result in more people discovering that Amazon ratings are simply manipulated by both corporate shills or advocate shills, devaluing the ratings system itself.

Hopefully, this will result in Amazon cracking down on shill reviewers, and modifying the system so that those who attempt to game the system in either the positive or negative direction have a substantially reduced score.

Development of DRM:

[O('_')O_Bush]

I don't understand how the cost of developing DRM protection on games and then dealing with the support costs of having DRM can outweigh the "cost" of a few pirated copies of the game.

Re:Development of DRM:

[gfxguy]

I don't understand how the cost of developing DRM protection on games and then dealing with the support costs of having DRM can outweigh the "cost" of a few pirated copies of the game.

Pirated copies that likely wouldn't have resulted in sales, anyway.

I'm not defending copyright infringement at all, especially on something so non-essential as a game, but it's been quite clear to me that accepting some amount of pirating and SAVING money by not having to pay for (or develop) the technology that only pisses off your honest customers is probably a pretty good way to go.

Re:Development of DRM:

[spire3661]

Copyright infringement needs some defending. Companies fight over the bottom line only, while the customers are saddled with morals. Its sad that companies can twist the law anyway they choose, but when an individual does it, its bad. Whats that old saying "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god"

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

3 Install limit is the kicker.

[RyanFenton]

All the messageboards commenting on the game are discussing the issue - and most everyone realizes that they tend to move games from machine to machine over the years, or at least are forced to reinstall windows enough that a 3 install limit is FAR too limited a deal. Oh, and uninstalling the software anecdotally does NOT appear to give you 'back' installs of the game so far.

I've worked making software protection schemes on occasion - from encrypted dongles with 'click counters' to sequentially mutating upgrade codes linked to custom hardware to send customers to extend licenses, all to make sure software was limited in terms of what users could do with it under license. This is one limit that really is too far for honorable customers.

The biggest suspicion is that all this was done to minimize the chance and value of the reselling the game. I can see that perspective... but if it's at the cost of actually selling the game in the first place, or of pissing off future customers, they've made a terrible mistake.

Ryan Fenton

Thank you, DRM!

[Mascot]

For once I find myself happy a game has DRM. I was going to buy Spore, until I heard of the DRM. Once that information became available it was off my to-buy list and I forgot about it.

Then a few days ago I am informed there's a cracked version available. I decide to see if it lived up to the hype and install it. Three hours later, I delete it out of boredom.

If it hadn't been for DRM, that would've been money out the window. There can be but one conclusion. DRM really is there for my benefit.

if drm doesn't, being a terrible game will

[Surt]

Sadly it's just terrible. Horribly boring. Evolutions is largely meaningless. There's basically no point in playing more than once, even going down a completely opposite tree was an identical experience. Just painfully dull.

Re:if drm doesn't, being a terrible game will

[Surt]

Who the heck moderated this 'offtopic'? Will Wright?

DRM used to be a nuisance, now it's a hazard

[topham]

At one time the various methods of DRM used to be a nuisance. However, in the last few years they have become a hazard. Getting tired of this crap, if I ever have to fix another PC that gets screwed over by bullshit DRM (screwed up CD/DVD drivers, etc) I'll be filing a lawsuit.

Re:Been bitten

[domatic]

Your emails would have more force if you explained you'd never buy it or even better will spend money with their competitors rather than pay them money. When you threaten to pirate, that is the only thing they are going to see or consider. Tagging yourself a pirate means you weren't apt to be a customer in their eyes anyway. You are also threatening to combat a wrong with wrong. The corporation may be faceless but a human probably reads your mail at some point and such a statement isn't morally impressive.

Bad experience with Mass Effect DRM

[Tridus]

I own Mass Effect PC. No, really. As in went to the store and bought a copy. The game is great.

But the DRM? Not so much. A few days ago it just decided to stop working for a while, and instead of running would tell me that I wasn't authorized to run it. Seems odd, since not only was I running it just fine before that happened, the box is still sitting on my desk. Why am I not authorized to run a game that I paid for, while some guy who pirated it can run it just fine (and with shorter startup times due to the lack of SecuROM)? Nobody has ever really had a good answer for that other then "bend over and take it."

Since then it started working again as inexplicably as it stopped working in the first place, but the whole thing put a bad taste in my mouth.

Now, throw the three install limit on top of that, and I'm really not sure why I should ever give EA another dime. In fact I am sure, I'm not buying anything from EA again until they start acting like they care about paying customers more then pirates.

Spore is the first on the "would have bought, but won't due to DRM" list for me. It won't be the last. EA can try to blame it on piracy all they want, but the fact of the matter is that they're doing more damage to their own sales then any pirate ever did.

Selling pretty well

[kopo]

A quick read through the Amazon reviews of Spore seems to suggest that the negative comments are already putting people off from buying the game.

This line from the product page seems to suggest otherwise:

Amazon.com Sales Rank: #1 in Video Games

That's why they call them Block Puzzles

[CorporateSuit]

I don't know about you guys, but the DRM is the most exciting part of the game I've seen so far! Find out what programs must be stopped before proceeding, navigate the legal work, avoid deadly lockdowns! They are like today's minotaur's maze -- for free!

Actually, the game isn't all that great...

[Emperor Shaddam IV]

I'm an avid gamer. My first games were games like Zork II, Ultima I, II, II I played on my C-64 and 20 or 30 carts I had for my 2600. I've played most of the major Sims, Strategy Games, and RTS titles. Everything from Dune II to Warcraft III. From Sim City I to CIV IV. From MOO to the demo copy of Sins of a Solar Empire, which I'm about to try.

And let me say, Spore is an interesting game, but after playing it yesterday for the first time, I think it was a real let-down considering the type. I would say that its a GOOD game, and I actually had some fun during the creature stage "tweaking" my creature, but the cell stage was a boring arcade style game. And the tribal stage was a let down because basically all you do is collect food and either kill the other tribes or play "music" to impress them.

Not really an "in depth" game like I was expecting. I'm on the civilzation stage, and I was a little disappointed to find out that you have to "harvest spice". Come on, how original is that? That goes all the way back to Dune II and Dune 2000 from Westwood. At least they could have come up with something original like "Smithore" ( M.U.L.E. )...

So I think the negative reviews are probably just that. Negative reviews.

Although one cool thing was that I encountered one of the creatures I designed about a month ago with creature creator show up in the creature phase of the game in "EPIC" size! It proceeded to "eat" half my population...

DRM could very well push PC gaming over the edge

[zifn4b]

DISCLAIMER: I'm a die-hard PC gamer. I go all the way back to the Commodore 64 and I've owned and I have had the privilege to play some of the best games of all time.

PC gaming is already in a fragile state. There is much competition from the Console market. Cheaper hardware, less compatibility problems, more stability and no DRM (at least until they go all download based). Assuming that DRM will eventually permeate every PC game, it could very well be the factor that pushes PC gaming over the edge. It just adds one more reason to choose Console over PC as a gaming platform. Soon, everyone will compare the two and most likely arrive at the following conclusions:

• With a PC, I have to upgrade my hardware almost every year just to play the latest and greatest games. With a console, I just buy a game for my console and it's guaranteed to perform decent because the game developers develop specifically for that hardware.
• With a PC, I have to install the game, download updated drivers and deal with software incompatibilities. In addition, most technical support departments are awful at helping users with these issues and more often than not leave them to fend for themselves. With a console game, it just works out of the box.
• I can play a console game on as many consoles as I wish but it can only be one console at a time. I can only play a PC game on a certain number of PC's and after that I have to go through a time-consuming, annoying process to make my case to get additional activations.

In today's day and age, consoles are unfortunately what most people want. They want to go buy a game at the store, plug it into their console and start playing right away. As much as I hate to say it being a long-time PC gamer, this is just one more nail in the coffin for PC gaming.

If the PC gaming platform is going to be saved there are many issues that need to be addressed. Gaming PC's need to be cheaper to be competitive with the price point of Console rivals. There has to be some sort of compromise about DRM. There has to be a way to raise the level of quality (stability, hardware support) of PC releases. Most PC releases, especially console ports, seem like they were just slapped together. Lots of products are released that are buggy as all hell and you have wait for 2 or 3 patches to get to play the game properly.

I sincerely hope that PC gaming lives on but right now it seems like it's fading away.

Science terrible?

[rk]

Because it's supposed to be a game. If it were truly evolution-style, the player would have nothing to do but watch. Games that are made to be realistic are oftentimes dull as wet cardboard. That you design your creature I hope doesn't come as a shock to you, since every Spore tech demo Will Wright gave in the last two to three years showed exactly that.

Personally, I really enjoyed it until I got to the space thing. I wasn't aware that I'd have to play a broken tech-demo version of Master of Orion to finish the game. I was in constant space combat using a control/camera system that I'm sure was designed to make space combat as painful as possible. And my race had been pretty much a peacenik during the whole history. None of that mattered anymore, apparently. The cell, creature, and tribal stages I thought were fun. The civ stage was okay. Once you get to space, just quit and go load up Sins of a Solar Empire instead.

Re:DRM?

[Seakip18]

If it's anything like they are saying, it will be like Bioshock/Mass Effects DRM. I'm sure it's in more detail around here.

Basically, on install, it calls home to check if the unique DVD you got has been installed more than three times. If so, it halts the installation process until you call EA and get it removed. The problem should be apparent.

No internet? In this day and age, hard to believe but I'm sure someone out there had their internet being fixed, etc.

Problems with EA's connection/equipment? A bit more believable

What if EA doesn't believe you/you don't fulfill their requirements? No install for you.

EA goes under/stops support for activation servers? Don't expect an official fix.

Honestly, go find a cracked version, and install that. You did your part in paying for it.

Re:Wanted More from Spore

[truthsearch]

If you're bored after the first two stages, why would you move on to the third? A game is supposed to be fun. If it's not fun relatively quickly, there's no point in playing it.

Maybe you're a masochist, but apparently he's not.

Re:OS X

[Orii]

I installed on OS X last night. The installation was a piece of cake, though it does ask for your root password to install (for the DRM, I'm sure). The only things I noticed with regard to DRM were a few small notes in the manual and readme file, usually along the lines of "you have to be connected online to play." Otherwise it seemed fairly transparent/hidden.

I'm not happy with the DRM but decided it wouldn't affect my usage patterns much. Should the time come where I do need to reinstall it more than the DRM wants, I'm sure I'll be able to find the "unofficial patch" to allow it.

Re:DRM could very well push PC gaming over the edg

[Tridus]

My father in law was an avid PC gamer too. Then he had two games in a row fail to work on his machine due to weird DRM incompatabilities with his hardware. We could never figure out exactly what the problem was, since he wasn't doing anything all that strange and although it was a custom-built system, it was all pretty standard hardware.

He solved the problem by buying an Xbox 360.

He expects that if he buys a game and puts the disk into his machine, it should run. DRM caused that to not happen. To me, it doesn't seem like an unrealistic request (and the Xbox has no problem doing it).

And people wonder what is killing PC gaming? Its the companies that make PC games.

Chalk up another lost sale

[BDaniels]

I was also looking forward to the release of Spore, until I heard that they were using SecureRom.

I'm not installing an app that causes that much headache just for one game. I might look at it when it releases on the 360, but the bad reviews I'm seeing are making it less likely. And if they hadn't used SecureRom, I'd have bought it on release day, without waiting for reviews.

I don't know how long it's going to take for publishers to understand this simple truth:

Copy protection pisses off the paying customer, and makes the pirate laugh.

Let me make that clear for MBA's - the only people inconvenienced by your protection are the people who paid for the game!

From a gamer who buys all his games, and is old enough to remember when Electronic Arts was a great company. "Can a computer make you cry?", indeed.

DRM Debate Problem.

[jellomizer]

The problem with the ANTI-DRM movement is the fact they don't separate themselves from good Non-DRM advantages vs Bad Non-DRM advantages.

Being able to copy a game and give it to a friend (who may give it to an other friend or post online) is exactly what they want to stop, they want people to pay for their copy. These aren't Not-For-Profit companies, They want to make as much money from their product as possible. If you don't understand that then move to Cuba. So any debate that goes I wouldn't get it unless it is free, will fall on deaf ears. Or Piracy as a marketing method, for the next version (that is why they give free demos).

In order to fight DRM you need to convince people of some real advantage that not having DRM will have to the Legal Copies Purchased owners who run on software and hardware that they officially support.

Back in them old days of the 1980s when games fit on a Floppy disk they had copy proctection on it. Normally putting a bad sector on a disk causing the disk copy method to skip that bad track. Allowing them to fairly successfully prevent illegal copying of programs. (pre internet day made it hard for someone to find the crack) however this only lasted a couple years and they went back to normal files (non Copy Protected). Why did this happen because the Copy Protection had a lot of flaws for legit use of their software.

1. Floppy Disks didn't last very well so a Backup Copy was considered good practice, where the game was actually normally run on the backup disk keeping the master disk safe. So Copy protection put their media at risk (chances are people wouldn't buy a new copy if it was gone)

2. Hard Drives were becoming popular they loaded faster and easier to and cleaner (no mess of disks flying around) People wanted to use this mass storage mechanism to run their products faster then before.

3. Upgrades those 5 1/4 disks drive systems were being replaced with 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 inch disk as well game size for new versions have gotten bigger. Wasting space for DRM was not efficient, on those small disks and people can often take 5 1/4 disks and put it on one 3 1/2 . As well they could see the end of the 5 1/4 disk so by forcing Copy Protection means once the drive goes so does their program.

None of this issue back then were about fluffy ideals (or as Fox news would call them, Crazy Hypi-Commi-Liberal UnAmerican ideals.) You need to prove that DRM is bad for the company and effecting its bottom line or will effect it soon. This thing on Amazon may or may not last. However people have been getting better at reviews and sifting threw the Glowing Reviews or Negitive Reviews and finding the middle stuff that actually give a good story of the product.

Re:DRM Debate Problem.

[init100]

In order to fight DRM you need to convince people of some real advantage that not having DRM will have to the Legal Copies

How about this: If Spore didn't have DRM, I would have bought it in an instant. But since it has DRM, especially a particularly draconian DRM scheme, there is not one chance in hell that I'll buy it. I'll not pirate it either, since that would tell EA that I couldn't stand abstaining from playing it, which I surely can.

So in my case, the DRM equals a lost sale, nothing more, nothing less.

Bingo

[Moraelin]

Neither. This strategy will result in more people discovering that Amazon ratings are simply manipulated by both corporate shills or advocate shills, devaluing the ratings system itself.

Bingo.

The waking call for me was when I stumbled upon the preorder page for Gothic 3, mostly out of sheer surprise that it existed already and it showed an unrealistically close release date. Back then it wasn't even in _alpha_. Even the official site and press releases had nothing more than a couple of "look what the engine can do" screenshots. There was no information about the story, the world, or anything. And again, nobody had a playable demo yet. Probably not even the devs, yet. So it seemed way premature to even have a preorder page.

Well, a few fanboys had already taken upon themselves to post glowing reviews. If you listened to them, it was the greatest game ever. Superb gameplay, the best fantasy story since Tolkien himself, no bugs, the best graphics ever, etc.

Needless to say, when the game was released a year later, it was nothing like that. I suppose the other categories are subjective, but let's just say that the "no bugs" part was waay off the mark. And the "a hamster can kill godzilla if it hits first, because it'll then keep interrupting the other" gameplay way at least for me a huge turnoff.

I can't remember the exact games, but I remember I looked at another couple of yet unreleased games the same day, out of morbid curiosity. Yep, you guessed, the fanboys or maybe shills (take your pick) had already written tons of glowing reviews.

So anyone who takes the Amazon ratings as anything more than comedy relief, is bound to have a bit of the surprise sooner or later. Probably sooner.

Mind you:

1. The situation isn't Amazon-only, nor games-only. When you give zealots, fanboys, trolls, and shills, who already exist to force their opinions and views upon everyone else, a forum whose purpose is just that... well, what did anyone expect?

2. Even without that, the amount of sheer stupidity in user reviews online is either hillarious or worth losing faith in humanity. I haven't yet decided which. (And I mean, seriously, stuff like, for a soundproofed Sennheiser headset, where the whole _point_ is that they massively dampen outside noises, someone hat taken the time to write a review to the effect of, "OMG, they're crap! If you put them on, you can't hear anything else, not even the doorbell or phone! Stay away from them!" And that's actually one of the milder examples of online stupidity.)

3. The whole point about tastes is that they're subjective. What may be TEH GRATEST GAME EVAR ;) for me, might be the most boring thing ever for you. I can see a point in trusting a reviewer or forum member who you've already established that he has the same tastes as you. Or maybe taking a reputable source and taking just the facts and ignoring his opinions of them. (E.g., "ok, he hated it because it's turn based, I like turn based, sound interesting.") But trusting some random guy online to tell one what to buy? Why? How stupid is that?

So, on the whole, that yet another group of zealots has taken it upon itself to pollute that already-polluted resource... well, it's a bit like spitting down the hole of an outhouse. Amusing, but won't make the contents any worse than they already were.

Hopefully, this will result in Amazon cracking down on shill reviewers, and modifying the system so that those who attempt to game the system in either the positive or negative direction have a substantially reduced score.

I'm not opposed to the idea, but I'd wonder about how would it work. How do you distinguish between, basically:

A. Some hypothetical corporate shill, giving everything from company X top marks just because he was paid to.

B. Jenny Gamer who likes to play with dolls, bought The Sims because it sounded just like that, and genuinely liked it. And then bought the 7

"Is this the beginning of the end for DRM...?"

[IronChef]

A hugely anticipated game ships with the most oppressive DRM yet. Aside from a handful of educated gamers not buying it, the backlash consists of Amazon comment spam... and this is supposed to be the end of DRM? It looks more like just the beginning.

Tell you what, when a hugely anticipated triple-A title from an outfit like EA ships with no DRM, why don't we call THAT the beginning of the end.

Re:"Is this the beginning of the end for DRM...?"

[rahvin112]

People forget that the Amazon Comment storm stopped Quicken from continuing to impliment similar draconian DRM on TurboTax. In fact said comments and reduced sales actually caused them to reverse previous policies. They completely removed the DRM and actually allowed via the EULA more copy rights to the owner than previously existed in the next years version. I was part of that boycott, choosing that year to use TaxCut instead of TurboTax. Not only that but the executives at Quicken got the wake up call that the guys selling them the DRM were snake oil salesmen.

Don't discount the power of a comment boycott. It hurts a publisher in the pocketbook directly by informing customers of the DRM before purchase, rather than after. These potential customers now aware of the problems before purchase then avoid the game entirely choosing not to deal with the problem. Even if there are still sales the real power of the boycott can only be seen in the total sales, not the day to day sales. Amazon's comments are a powerful medium to educate consumers. Amazon comments in the case of quicken caused a media storm and dramatically hurt sales of the DRM laden TurboTax.

Based on previous comments from the executives of EA it will probably not make an impact on their decisions and motives, unlike Quicken. But if it keeps happening on every game they distribute then they will either vacate the PC game market or quit using DRM. Both scenarios are good for PC gamers as they are currently the biggest DRM publisher and PC Game developers will choose to use other publishers.

Bait and switch is against the law in many

[Nicolas MONNET]

Bait and switch is against the law in many jurisdiction; at least I know it is around here. People invest time and money to go to the store and buy something, therefore if you sell them something on false pretenses, or hide an important caveat, you are basically ripping them off, even if you offer a refund. And btw, just try exercise that right to a refund; it sure as hell ain't easy to recoup the Windows tax even though it's explicitly stated in the EULA that you can get a refund if you don't agree.

Re:Been bitten

[Hyppy]

Tagging yourself a pirate means you weren't apt to be a customer in their eyes anyway.

No, no, no. The music, film, and now game industries have all agreed that every pirate could have been worth at least 10 sales. 20 if said "pirate" is an elderly grandmother.

I hope it kills it in time to save Dragon Age.

[guidryp]

I don't care about Spore. But I won't buy a game with call home DRM. When the servers aren't working someday, you can't play your game. No thanks. Just look at Microsoft and Yahoo music services to get a clue how long these servers will run.

So if the game I am waiting for actually has this crap. I won't buy it. This is after buying BG1, BG2, NWN and all expansions, plus KOTOR. I love Bioware games. But I will not buy into this kind of DRM nonsense.

And you know what. It will still get busted and copied, they are just alienating the purchasing customer. Or soon to be former purchasing customer.

But hey it's OK, I still have NWN and 10000 mods for my RPG fix if these guys don't want my money.

Re:Wanted More from Spore

[HolyCoitus]

Have someone step on your scrotum over and over. I've seen some videos where people like it. You just have to keep going until it gets good, just like everything in life.

More issues than just DRM

[whoop]

I installed the game, and clicked the icon. The screen went full screen and black, then it kicks out with a GPF error. I try again. I reboot and retry, still could not play the game.

After some more uninstalling, rebooting, etc, I finally got it to start up. So I go to create the EA account to use all the wonderful online content they've touted for the last few years. What happens there? "An unknown error has occurred, please try again." Try again as much as I want, and it does not want to create me an account.

So then I dig through years of email and find I did have a general EA account created some time ago. Groovy (or so I think). I try to log on with it at EA's web site. Oh, there's a message that you have to use an email address instead of the old system's username/password. There's a handy link to convert my old account to this new system. Ok. I click through a few screens, agree to the terms of service, etc. "The EA account (email address) and password you entered appears to be invalid."

Try as I might, I guess they really, really don't want me to play this game...

Re:Been bitten

[Guysmiley777]

If you're really serious and upset about something, send a snail-mail letter to the CEO of the company calmly and reasonably stating your complaint.

THAT may actually get some attention. Email is just too easy to shift-delete.

What DRM?

[nicklott]

As far as I can see no commenter yet has actually installed this game, it's just a bunch of "EA Sucks"/"I won't buy this (but I wouldn't have anyway)"/"It will run under WINE" rants based on stories they've read on slashdot.

I bought it and installed it and, aside from the usual serial number, I've not noticed any DRM yet.

And probably I won't because I won't be playing it again. DRM won't kill Spore, brain dead gameplay will kill Spore. Such a beautiful and well executed concept has been ruined by Will Wright's desire to go for the Sims-level market. There's nothing even remotely challenging about the first stages, though the concept and execution are great, then the last stage over-compensates by being impossible (it's basically Elite II without the tedious flying bits, but you always start next to large and aggressive empires who give you not a chance). I truly hope that they have a change of heart and produce some kind of advanced gamer mode patch to make the promising pre-space stages deeper and longer, but having read WW's unapologetic response I won't be holding my breath.

Amazon reviews brought a tear to my eye

[TravisO]

It both surprised and made me proud of my fellow consumers that so many people do care about the unacceptable DRM being used in this game.

EA marketing can spin it all they want, but they will kill their DRM servers the moment:
1. The game no longer makes money
2. The server gets a non compatible "upgrade"
3. EA gets bought out by another company
4. EA smartens up and realizes DRM was just a bad idea that only punishes the legal users (and if this happens too late, nobody will be create an EA patch to the game)

What if I wanted to still play Spore in 2026, that's not as unrealistic as it sounds because as you read this I'm playing many 15yr old PC games still. There are many DOS games I still enjoy (legally) to this day in DOSBOX.

What EA needs to realize is pirates aren't their demographics, some people will just steal the game, protection won't change them either way. Meanwhile, intelligent consumers like myself, who actually had an interest in the game, will not either boycott or get the game using more nefarious means. Mind you I am an active consumer, I've purchase two new PC games in the last 6 weeks.

Finally keep in mind there's another reason behind this kind of DRM: to prevent the sale of used copies, Half Life 2 did the same thing when they tied the game to Steam. I'll bet the shirt on my back if you were to call EA and say you bought the game used and want a 4th authorization, they'll turn you down. It's both a moral and a technological abuse.

Just say no to rent-ware masquerading as a product!

Re:DRM?

[Koiu Lpoi]

Also considering the game was cracked and out for download several days before it hit stores, for no pain and no price, it's no wonder people are fed up. Once again, you get better support from the pirates than EA.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

I've often wondered about this

[Sycraft-fu]

As far as I know, no publisher has bothered to do a study on the topic. However I'd be suspicious that the sales gained by DRM preventing copying are not enough to offset the cost of said DRM. Most companies don't develop their own, they buy an off the shelf one. SafeDisc, Securerom, etc are all products you can buy. Like most things of that nature, the prices aren't listed on the website. However, I'm going to guess they aren't cheap. Most development tools, modules and such for games aren't.

So they would not only have to result in higher sales, but it would have to be by a non-trivial factor to be worth the money. If your DRM costs $200,000, and you only get 5,000 more sales out of it, chances are you didn't make any money (remember for a game to be $50 retail, the publisher is probably getting less than $20/copy).

I think it is just kinda accepted on faith that DRM is worth it by publishers. I've never seen any sort of study from them, or anyone else, showing that yes indeed it does increase sales by an amount significant to offset the costs.

Game longevity

[JMZero]

Completely agree. I've installed Starcraft probably 20 to 30 times. More if you count multiplayer "spawn" installs and what not.

(And I've bought it 3 times now. Not because it quit working, but because I lost the discs once, and once gave my copy away.)

Spore is intended as a huge, open-ended game with user-created content and lots of gameplay "meat": the kind of game that should be lasting 5 or 10 years. 3 installs isn't going to work for that for a lot of people. Not just people who upgrade a lot or move around or crash a lot - just regular people who like the game for more than the first year or two - are going to get bitten by this.

Re:Game longevity

[Anonymous Coward]

Spore is intended as a huge, open-ended game with user-created content and lots of gameplay "meat": the kind of game that should be lasting 5 or 10 years.

Sadly, Spore does not come anywhere close to this. The best parts of the game are the Cell stage and Creature Creator... and that's not really saying a lot. [TL;DR version of this review at bottom.]

First off, the cell stage plays almost exactly like flOw, so if you've ever played that game, you already know what this is like. You can try it out here for free.

Next is the Creature stage. You design your creature using very limited DNA points, and the most basic body parts, and then you go out into the world. This stage consists of avoiding any creatures tougher than you [Which is most of them.] and befriending or killing any creatures weaker than you, then doing this while looking for bones laying around on the ground. [Finding bones gives you additional bodyparts in the creature creator.] Killing creatures consists of clicking on them until they die. Befriending creatures consists of repeating a song, dance, charm or other emote, and doing it several times in a row. If your creature sucks at social things, you won't be able to befriend much of anything. Basically this stage is grind grind grind grind to find bones and kill things/befriend things for DNA points until you have the parts you want, and the brainpower needed to advance to the next stage.

After the creature stage comes the Tribal stage. Here you can change the outfits on your creatures to add to their gathering, hunting, or social skills. You spawn more creatures out of a hut, up to a maximum of 12 [once you've conquered a couple other tribes.] Once again, you can do two things: Conquer a tribe or befriend them. Befriending them is essentially the same as in the creature stage, except that you need to build musical buildings to give your creatures access to musical instruments so they can repeat what music the other tribe plays. The combat is essentially summed up as: click on an enemy and wait until he dies. If you die, respawn more creatures at your hut and do it again. There are no strategies involved beyond equipping your creatures with different weapons. [Axes, torches, or spears.] The difference between these weapons is pretty negligible, and don't really add to any strategies or tactics.

Once you've befriended/killed 5 other tribes, you move onto the Civilizations stage. Here you have a city where you add a couple buildings to change how happy your citizens are, or how much money you produce. You can also add turrets. You are also given 1 type of unit for each unit type, for a grand total of 3 different units. You use these to capture spice mines around the planet, or other cities. You can capture a city economically, religiously, or militarily. Economics involves buying the city out, religion you target unhappy cities and convert them, and with military you right click on a city and select 'capture city'. That's really about all there is to this stage. The AI generally doesn't defend itself.

Finally you get to the space stage. You're given a spaceship and told to go plant a colony on another planet. This stage has the most gameplay in the game, by far. But it has one incredibly annoying drawback: Every 3-5 minutes, [Literally. Sometimes even more often - I used a watch.] you will have one of your colonies attacked by pirates, unfriendly aliens, Grox, or you'll have to go and deal with ecological disasters on friendly alien planets. Typically the game tries to force you to do several of these all at once. I found myself going to an allied planet to stop an ecological disaster, only to find that my homeworld and colony are under attack by aliens. This stage would be fun if it weren't for these kinds of constant annoyances. Overall the gameplay for the space stage is similar to Star Control, though in my opi

Re:Game longevity

[mr_gorkajuice]

Have you actually played the game, or just done extensive review reading?

Cell Stage: Resembles flOw indeed, except the way you design your cell has impact on your tactics, both short and long term (flOw doesn't allow you to equip yourself with poison glands to kill off anything that chases you).

Creature Stage: Designing your creature right will give you special abilities such as sneak, spit and charm - the limitied DNA currency forces you to make tactical decision - the fact that you don't know which parts you'll find to unlock means that even two tactical powergamers with the same ideas will not necessarily breed creatures with similar skillsets. That fighting is simply boiled down to clicking your target repeatedly is just plain false (or how you would play if you don't know any better, cause yes - it's an option).

Tribal Stage: Are you deliberately excluding the shaman staff, that turns units into healers, from the equation to benefit your conclusion of weapon choices being insignificant? Also, the fact that axes are good vs. living things, whereas torches are good vs. buildings is not tactically unimportant. Personally, I rarely use the spears, as most of my creations have been inately able to shoot (which along with various degrees of sneak capabilities and flying are other ways for the creature designer to have impact on gameplay). I've managed to complete tribal stage with very few casualties, so zergrush being the only tactics is just plain false.

Civilization stage: Grand total of 3 different units is just plain false. You can reach 9 different units if you control both military, religious and economic costal towns (I've personally had 4 active types at once - economic and military versions of both ships and airplanes). That the AI doesn't defend itself is false on Hard difficulty. The vehicle designer actually affects the properties of your vehicles (I like my military vehicles sturdy and full of firepower, while my economic vehicles are fast and with good capacity, but frail).
It just dawned on me that I actually might even think you're able to create a fast military aircraft in one city, and a slow, powerful one in another... but that needs some checking up.

Space Stage: I haven't played Star Control. Basically, I must agree that the constant attacks are a nuissance. The space stage has a lot of potential, it's just too bad that I'm constantly too busy fighting stuff off to actually check out that potential.

Basically, I'm under the impression that some 60% of the actual depth in this game is lost on you.

Re:Game longevity

[twosmokes]

I only bought the game yesterday and only made it through the tribal stage, but the GP is pretty spot on from what I've seen so far.

The cell stage gives you some minor customization options, but really it's flOw. Replace customization with moving on to the next "level" in flOw and playing as a new creature type and you have the same game.

I initially had problems with the creature stage and was trying to tactically equip my creature to be able to befriend other creatures better. But then I realized that I should just add a companion (I forget what they're called right now). At that point the stage became trivial. I was a big fat bird with no offensive abilities other than bite and I and my recruits were destroying anything but the giant elite creatures. With one button.

The tribal stage was so short and shallow I'm surprised it was even in the game. It DOESN'T matter what kind of weapon you use. I had access to the flame sticks and axes and was planning an assault on the green village. When I got there I realized that I forgot to equip axes. Didn't seem to make a difference. I destroyed the villagers a few seconds slower than I could have I guess.

I spent 2-3 hours on the creature stage trying to collect parts for customization even after I was able to move on to the next stage. I didn't realize that this customization had almost zero effect on the gameplay that would follow and was mostly for aesthetic purposes.

I was disappointed that the creature stage throws out any semblance of evolution or heredity. When mating to create offspring you can completely throw out every single part that the parents had and create a completely new creature. And the entire tribe morphs into that new creature. Some restrictions or forced incremental steps would have been nice here.

As I said I'm about to embark on the civilization stage, so maybe that will improve my opinion. Right now I'd say the game is... neat, but I can't see myself playing it over and over again. These first stages have felt like flash games (not even the best flash games) with a great creature editor tacked on.

Re:What. Is. The. Big. Deal?

[Lord Bitman]

"EA's DRM does nothing to prevent torrents. Cracked copies were released even before the official game. This proves that DRM is necessary."

read that over a few times.

DRM is just one nail in the coffin

[billcopc]

The DRM isn't helping, but the biggest problem with Spore is it's a huge disappointment.

I don't know about you, but I played through most of the game in one sitting. I started out as a little googly-eyed bacteria, and got to the space exploration stage. At that point, I got so intensely bored I just stopped playing.

There isn't anywhere near enough variety in the game to keep things interesting. The only challenge is patience, there is no skill involved, and very little thinking. The various creatures are interesting to see at first, but after a dozen races they all start looking the same. It's hard to specialize your critter, because the parts look different but have very similar stats. You can get the fastest legs, the meanest teeth, the strongest arms, all on the same char. There are no tradeoffs.

What's worse is one stage has little or no bearing on the next one. It feels less like evolution and more like 5 mini-games bundled together. Your race's appearance carries over, but the abilities/stats become irrelevant. It is difficult to lose in any phase, and downright impossible in some, thanks to unlimited lives.

I think we all got hyped up about the potential, but reality (EA) came along and made sure this game was anything BUT epic. They probably did this so they can release expansion packs later on, because had they delivered the game we thought we were getting, there would be no room for expansion.

Mac: no disk in drive

[Jack Conrad]

I purchased Spore and I have a MacBook Pro for gaming that runs Mac OS 10.5 and Vista 64 bit. I chose to install it under Mac OS and have had no problems.

My optical disk drive is toast. I had to install from my fiancee's drive from targeted disk mode. My Spore disk is never, ever, in my drive. I have not had Spore complain once.

(I know its a little late in the game to respond, but, I haven't seen any crippling DRM; but, they probably just didn't think about crippling the Mac version).

I was actually very happy the game included both PC & Mac versions all for one cost.

(Of course, I've posted this so late no one will read this comment.)