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Will DRM Exterminate Spore?

AC Dude writes "Will an anti-DRM flash mob that's determined to give EA's latest sim game Spore a rock bottom rating on Amazon.com sink the game, or will Spore evolve and shed the DRM? Is this the beginning of the end for DRM-laden games? 'Over the past few years we've focused a lot on the music industry and how it has attempted to use DRM to control distribution. While DRM in this market segment has been unpopular, anti-DRM campaigns have largely fallen flat when it comes to attracting widespread public attention because of the fragmented nature of music. Games are a much easier target given the monolithic nature of their release — campaigners only need to spread the word on a handful of specific online outlets to reach a wide audience. A quick read through the Amazon reviews of Spore seems to suggest that the negative comments are already putting people off from buying the game.'"

35 of 881 comments (clear)

  1. http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
    1. Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If you don't believe in your cause enough to actually boycott the product, then you don't deserve to see your cause prevail.

      Also, I believe it is counter productive. If you pirate the game, they will know people want the game enough to jump through hoops for it. EA will just try to make piracy more difficult than buying the product. You may be saying "Great, they will take out the DRM and the game will be easier to buy than pirate!" but you're wrong. They will litigate. Think of the RIAA and where they went when music piracy got too out of hand for them. Do you want to create another monster?

      If you can prove that you can go without the product if they don't make it in a form you like, then they will be much more likely to remove DRM, because its the only enemy left.

    2. Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0 by cliffski · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Excellent point. This is a very silly way to 'protest' about DRM. The best way to get companies to stop using DRM is to reason with them, contact them, and let them know how you feel. I can tell you 100% that no matter how many people would pirate my games, it wouldn't convince me to abandon DRM. What convinced me to do it was actually reading through what the people had to say when they emailed me on the topic.

      All rating the game badly will do is make amazon's ratings look unusable, piss off everyone who worked on the game (many of which oppose DRM no doubt), and reinforce the mentality that those who oppose DRM are doing so for childish reasons. Well-thought out, considered and intelligent emails to the publishers and developers will achieve a hundred times more, as will boycotting the game (both legal and illegal copies) and only purchasing DRM-free games.

      --
      DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
    3. Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0 by not+already+in+use · · Score: 5, Informative

      Still blows my mind that so few people know about httpS://thepiratebay.org....

      --
      Similes are like metaphors
    4. Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0 by Araneas · · Score: 5, Informative

      Don't email - spend a stamp and snail mail your comments.

    5. Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0 by alta · · Score: 5, Funny

      Wow, 3k seeds and 77k leachers... Sounds like a succesful game.

      --
      Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
    6. Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0 by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Random question: what's the difference between a well-thought out email sent directly to the publisher, and a well-thought out comment posted to Amazon?

      Random answer: it's much more difficult to find the address of someone who cares at the publisher.

      However, I like the approach. I will not buy Spore (partially because of the bad reviews, but also partially because of the DRM), but there is no easy way for me tell EA why I didn't buy it. Leaving a comment is a simple way for me to tell EA that piracy has nothing to do with the game doing badly - Securom, on the other hand, has quite a bit to do with it.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    7. Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0 by MBGMorden · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's not going to prevent much though. Secure transmissions like that help against hackers and ISP's trying to pry into your data. A company wanting to know who is transferring a torrent is going to connect to the swarm itself, not the http page for the site. Once there, even for encrypted data, the IP addresses of all parties involved will be shown because each client needs that information to download and/or update to those clients.

      So in general, I'm just not sure how HTTPS helps this problem at all.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    8. Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0 by init100 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      piss off everyone who worked on the game

      They should be clever enough to understand that the criticism is against the DRM, not the game itself.

      many of which oppose DRM no doubt

      Then they should not take the campaign personally, but understand that it is aimed at their publisher.

      But anyway, I guess you are right. For example, Gas Powered Games released a patch to Supreme Commander a fairly short time after the release that removed the copy protection. I really liked this move, and it contributed significantly to my decision to buy the game.

      reinforce the mentality that those who oppose DRM are doing so for childish reasons.

      I read a few of the "reviews", and they were not childish. They were reasonable complaints against a draconian DRM scheme, fairly comparing the so-called "purchase" with a rental scheme. What's childish about wanting to play the game even after EA stops supporting it? I still sometimes play games ten years old.

      Well-thought out, considered and intelligent emails to the publishers and developers will achieve a hundred times more

      I would surely do that, if I thought that it had any chance of actually being read. But unfortunately, I don't think that it would, so why waste my time?

      as will boycotting the game (both legal and illegal copies)

      That's what I do. I really looked forward to Spore, but the DRM is a showstopper. I won't buy the game until it is put in the bargain bin for $10, or (extremely unlikely) they remove the DRM. I will also not pirate the game.

      and only purchasing DRM-free games.

      Unfortunately, those are few and far between. I can accept games like Supreme Commander, which are initially copy-protected, but which have the protection removed by the game developers themselves afterward (as the DRM is usually demanded by the publisher, not the developers).

    9. Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0 by c0d3g33k · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Childish or not, it's attention getting, and sometimes that's what it takes to drive the message home.

      I've tried carefully crafted and reasoned emails, and even 'traditional' letters using paper and a stamp. I've written about why I didn't purchase the game (DRM), why I would enjoy playing it, and how much I would enjoy giving them my money if a mutually acceptable transaction were possible. I've praised companies in writing for doing something I support (reasonable protection, Linux support) and crediting that for my purchase. I've explained how I've been buying computer games since buying King's Quest for my Tandy 1000 and have several large bookshelves full of game boxes I've accumulated over the years. I've explained why my purchase of new games suddenly dwindled to nearly nothing as a result of DRM and why I support companies such as Introversion who don't use draconian DRM. I've explained why I haven't stopped playing games because I passed out of the target demographic and how I have more liquid assets available now than when I was young and poor. I've tried it all, and it has all fallen on deaf ears.

      I've been thanked for my thoughtful comments, but educated in the business realities that make my position untenable, though regrettable. I've been accused of being irrelevant, since I'm only one person and what does the loss of my $50 mean anyway - there are plenty of people who buy the game so who am I to question things. Hell, I've been accused of pirating just because I stated that I won't purchase a game due to DRM or other factors, since I must obviously be incapable of resisting the impulse of playing a hot game (eg. Bioshock) because no gamer would willing avoid playing (so if I didn't buy it, I must have pirated it).

      In other words, the reasoned approach has fallen on deaf ears, at least based on the fact that DRM and such has become increasingly more draconian as sales continue to dwindle for PC games.

      It's very difficult for even a motivated individual to have any impact because even statements like "I'll never buy one of your products again as long as you continue this undesirable practice" have no real meaning. What do I matter to the bottom line?

      I've concluded that organized efforts are more likely to get attention because the potential impact is much greater.

      Question the methods if you will, but I think people have figured out that organizing is the only way to get companies to listen.

    10. Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0 by mopower70 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I respectfully disagree. Everyone knows Amazon's rating system is usable and worth reading already. Game designers know that and so do customers. Writing a well written poor review panning your game because of this feature is like writing an open letter to the manufacturer. If I was in charge of a product that received that much well thought out, well written bad press on such an influential site as Amazon, I'd be looking for some heads on a platter.

    11. Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0 by scubamage · · Score: 5, Informative

      Excellent point. This is a very silly way to 'protest' about DRM. The best way to get companies to stop using DRM is to reason with them, contact them, and let them know how you feel. I can tell you 100% that no matter how many people would pirate my games, it wouldn't convince me to abandon DRM. What convinced me to do it was actually reading through what the people had to say when they emailed me on the topic.

      All rating the game badly will do is make amazon's ratings look unusable, piss off everyone who worked on the game (many of which oppose DRM no doubt), and reinforce the mentality that those who oppose DRM are doing so for childish reasons. Well-thought out, considered and intelligent emails to the publishers and developers will achieve a hundred times more, as will boycotting the game (both legal and illegal copies) and only purchasing DRM-free games.

      No it isn't. I'm pretty sure the way capitalism works is by speaking with your money. These are people who are vocally boycotting the game, and explaining why. Also, if you look at the actual 1 star ratings, they all give said ratings for genuine, factual reasons. If they were accusing the game of killing puppies, or eating babies, then I would say its juvenile. However, they aren't. They're stating that it installs software similar to a rootkit. They're explaining that if the servers ever go online (as they did in the case of PlaysForSure and Yahoo Music) that you lose all ability to play your game. These aren't infantile gripes - they're very valid concerns from their consumer base.

    12. Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0 by electrictroy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      BACK TO TOPIC: Look at all the negative reviews on amazon (link) : http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B000FKBCX4

      I didn't understand the issue until I read this: "You get three installs. That's it. No install returned for uninstallation, or anything else. You install it three times, then you're out $50." I agree one-hundred percent. As a gamer who still plays ancient games like Red Storm Rising or Pirates or Populous, the last thing I want is a game that will stop working after I upgrade to my next computer (about two years time).

      I want something to keep forever, not a rental.

      --
      The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to you.
    13. Re:http://thepiratebay.org/search/Spore/0/99/0 by shayne321 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      From what I've read I think people understand this perfectly well. If your hard drive crashes 3 times in 6 months you'll have to start calling EA to get your game reactivated.. Annoying, but not earth-shattering. Here's what I think people are up in arms about: what happens if you've burned through your 3 installs then want to install your game again in 3 years, when Spore 2 is out and EA decides they will no longer activate Spore 1? What about in 5 years time when Microsoft acquires EA and decides they will focus exclusively on the Xbox 2014 and will no longer activate PC games? What about in 8 years time when IPv6 is common on the internet and spore still requires an IPv4 network for activation? What about in 10 years time when Madden 2018 is such a bloated pile of suck that it collapses upon itself creating a super-massive black hole which swallows all of EA? Ok, so the last one is just an unprovoked shot at Madden, but the point is companies and technology change. Depending on a company to willingly activate a game you've *purchased* for $50+ effectively means you're renting the game. THAT'S why people are making this a Big Deal.

      The other side to this is people are now fully aware that people pirating the game simply grab the torrent, install, and go. It's the legitimate users who have shelled out the $50 that are jumping through the hoops. So in this case DRM has done NOTHING to thwart pirating, and everything to annoy EA's customer base.

      --
      Today I didn't even have to use my AK; I got to say it was a good day -- Icecube
  2. It might. by LWATCDR · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I really want this game but I will wait until a patch is available that turns off the DRM.
    Some would call it a crack but if I buy the game then I say it is a patch.
    A piece of code that improves the program is too my mind a patch.

    I have have had more problems using DRM software that I have paid for than I would ever have hunting down pirated copies.

    Companies have got to learn to stop treating paying customers and criminals.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    1. Re:It might. by gbjbaanb · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Reminds me of Supreme Commander, they had 'securerom' with the original DVDs, but once installed it downloaded the usual patches, one of which disabled it. So, authenticate once and then you never have to worry about playing with the media in the drive.

      I think its the best compromise we're likely to get.

    2. Re:It might. by Subliminalbits · · Score: 5, Informative

      Supreme Commander was a case where the developers were forced to ship games with Securerom, but they had no requirements placed upon them about removing it via a patch. Since that was the case, they abided by the letter of the law and then immediately stripped it off.

    3. Re:It might. by Cheesey · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Some Steam games have both the Steam DRM and something else. Bioshock, for example, came with SecuROM regardless of whether you got it from Steam or a physical shop. (This is why the demo didn't work on my PC, and this is why I didn't buy it.)

      Like the DRM used in games consoles, the Steam DRM is tolerable because it works properly, and the rules that it imposes are consistent across nearly all of the games (Bioshock being an exception). We do not see this "flash mob" rating all the XBox games as 1: why not? Because the DRM in that case doesn't get in the way.

      Many of the problems with DRM can be solved by standardisation, but the standard must not only involve a single DRM platform for all software, but also a single online service for authentication. This would be a trusted third party - like a bank. It would assure us that purchases will continue to function after the publisher goes out of business. Steam does both of these things quite well, although we are all assuming that Valve won't go bankrupt and sell its IP to a company with less of a clue.

      --
      >north
      You're an immobile computer, remember?
    4. Re:It might. by SleepingWaterBear · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Many of the problems with DRM can be solved by standardisation, but the standard must not only involve a single DRM platform for all software, but also a single online service for authentication. This would be a trusted third party - like a bank. It would assure us that purchases will continue to function after the publisher goes out of business. Steam does both of these things quite well, although we are all assuming that Valve won't go bankrupt and sell its IP to a company with less of a clue.

      Standardized DRM would do nothing to fix the primary problem with DRM, which is that it doesn't work. If you standardize DRM it will be no time at all before we have standardized cracks. Besides, there's no particular reason to assume that some third party will be more stable or reliable than game publishers.

      Given that their basic business model is broken (providing a service that makes products more difficult to use while failing to prevent piracy) I would in fact go so far as to say that any company like Steam is unlikely to be around in a year or two. The solution for game companies is to find a way to sell something other than the program itself which only they can provide. Given the degree to which games are becoming integrated with the internet, this isn't such an impossible idea.

  3. Hey by PunkOfLinux · · Score: 5, Informative

    I agree. DRM on games sucks. Thanks to DRM on games, it's nearly impossible to play certain games on Linux with Wine, because things like SecuROM don't like Wine. Pretty worthless 'rights management' if it prevents a legitimate customer from using it.

    1. Re:Hey by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 5, Funny

      Pretty worthless 'rights management' if it prevents a legitimate customer from using it.

      Many of us define DRM more accurately as "digital restrictions management".

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    2. Re:Hey by XanC · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, on the list of system requirements, I bet it says "Windows". I don't think it says "an implementation of the Windows environment".

      It's totally stupid for it not to work, but if you go by what's on the box...

  4. The idiots by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The server side community is an integral part of the game. What do they need DRM for? Are they so used to annoying their customers that they just added the DRM out of habit?

    1. Re:The idiots by thermian · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The server side community is an integral part of the game. What do they need DRM for? Are they so used to annoying their customers that they just added the DRM out of habit?

      Because they are too big as a company for people with a clue to make policy decisions. The DRM choice will have been made by upper management who weren't really understanding the impact it will have.

      After all, they still think DRM is a good thing.

      The DRM has made me certain I will not be buying this game. Its no loss anyway, there are plenty of games out there, and if the concept is good, someone else will do something similar soon enough.

      --
      A learning experience is one of those things that say, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' - D. Adams
  5. What is this about DRM? by Alonzo+Meatman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    All the reviews I've read about Spore have said the same thing - great toy, boring game. I'd think that would be far more likely to repel potential buyers than some scuffle over DRM.

  6. Re:What about my legal rights? by Constantine+XVI · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you read the EULA, EA owns your creations. You only get the rights to use them as they see fit.

    --
    "I think an etch-a-sketch with an ethernet port would beat IE7 in web standards compliance."
  7. Development of DRM: by O('_')O_Bush · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I don't understand how the cost of developing DRM protection on games and then dealing with the support costs of having DRM can outweigh the "cost" of a few pirated copies of the game.

    --
    while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
  8. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  9. Thank you, DRM! by Mascot · · Score: 5, Funny

    For once I find myself happy a game has DRM. I was going to buy Spore, until I heard of the DRM. Once that information became available it was off my to-buy list and I forgot about it.

    Then a few days ago I am informed there's a cracked version available. I decide to see if it lived up to the hype and install it. Three hours later, I delete it out of boredom.

    If it hadn't been for DRM, that would've been money out the window. There can be but one conclusion. DRM really is there for my benefit.

  10. if drm doesn't, being a terrible game will by Surt · · Score: 5, Informative

    Sadly it's just terrible. Horribly boring. Evolutions is largely meaningless. There's basically no point in playing more than once, even going down a completely opposite tree was an identical experience. Just painfully dull.

    --
    "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
  11. Re:Been bitten by domatic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Your emails would have more force if you explained you'd never buy it or even better will spend money with their competitors rather than pay them money. When you threaten to pirate, that is the only thing they are going to see or consider. Tagging yourself a pirate means you weren't apt to be a customer in their eyes anyway. You are also threatening to combat a wrong with wrong. The corporation may be faceless but a human probably reads your mail at some point and such a statement isn't morally impressive.

  12. Selling pretty well by kopo · · Score: 5, Informative

    A quick read through the Amazon reviews of Spore seems to suggest that the negative comments are already putting people off from buying the game.

    This line from the product page seems to suggest otherwise:

    Amazon.com Sales Rank: #1 in Video Games

  13. DRM could very well push PC gaming over the edge by zifn4b · · Score: 5, Interesting

    DISCLAIMER: I'm a die-hard PC gamer. I go all the way back to the Commodore 64 and I've owned and I have had the privilege to play some of the best games of all time.

    PC gaming is already in a fragile state. There is much competition from the Console market. Cheaper hardware, less compatibility problems, more stability and no DRM (at least until they go all download based). Assuming that DRM will eventually permeate every PC game, it could very well be the factor that pushes PC gaming over the edge. It just adds one more reason to choose Console over PC as a gaming platform. Soon, everyone will compare the two and most likely arrive at the following conclusions:

    • With a PC, I have to upgrade my hardware almost every year just to play the latest and greatest games. With a console, I just buy a game for my console and it's guaranteed to perform decent because the game developers develop specifically for that hardware.
    • With a PC, I have to install the game, download updated drivers and deal with software incompatibilities. In addition, most technical support departments are awful at helping users with these issues and more often than not leave them to fend for themselves. With a console game, it just works out of the box.
    • I can play a console game on as many consoles as I wish but it can only be one console at a time. I can only play a PC game on a certain number of PC's and after that I have to go through a time-consuming, annoying process to make my case to get additional activations.

    In today's day and age, consoles are unfortunately what most people want. They want to go buy a game at the store, plug it into their console and start playing right away. As much as I hate to say it being a long-time PC gamer, this is just one more nail in the coffin for PC gaming.

    If the PC gaming platform is going to be saved there are many issues that need to be addressed. Gaming PC's need to be cheaper to be competitive with the price point of Console rivals. There has to be some sort of compromise about DRM. There has to be a way to raise the level of quality (stability, hardware support) of PC releases. Most PC releases, especially console ports, seem like they were just slapped together. Lots of products are released that are buggy as all hell and you have wait for 2 or 3 patches to get to play the game properly.

    I sincerely hope that PC gaming lives on but right now it seems like it's fading away.

    --
    We'll make great pets
  14. Re:Wanted More from Spore by truthsearch · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you're bored after the first two stages, why would you move on to the third? A game is supposed to be fun. If it's not fun relatively quickly, there's no point in playing it.

    Maybe you're a masochist, but apparently he's not.

  15. Re:Game longevity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Spore is intended as a huge, open-ended game with user-created content and lots of gameplay "meat": the kind of game that should be lasting 5 or 10 years.

    Sadly, Spore does not come anywhere close to this. The best parts of the game are the Cell stage and Creature Creator... and that's not really saying a lot. [TL;DR version of this review at bottom.]

    First off, the cell stage plays almost exactly like flOw, so if you've ever played that game, you already know what this is like. You can try it out here for free.

    Next is the Creature stage. You design your creature using very limited DNA points, and the most basic body parts, and then you go out into the world. This stage consists of avoiding any creatures tougher than you [Which is most of them.] and befriending or killing any creatures weaker than you, then doing this while looking for bones laying around on the ground. [Finding bones gives you additional bodyparts in the creature creator.] Killing creatures consists of clicking on them until they die. Befriending creatures consists of repeating a song, dance, charm or other emote, and doing it several times in a row. If your creature sucks at social things, you won't be able to befriend much of anything. Basically this stage is grind grind grind grind to find bones and kill things/befriend things for DNA points until you have the parts you want, and the brainpower needed to advance to the next stage.

    After the creature stage comes the Tribal stage. Here you can change the outfits on your creatures to add to their gathering, hunting, or social skills. You spawn more creatures out of a hut, up to a maximum of 12 [once you've conquered a couple other tribes.] Once again, you can do two things: Conquer a tribe or befriend them. Befriending them is essentially the same as in the creature stage, except that you need to build musical buildings to give your creatures access to musical instruments so they can repeat what music the other tribe plays. The combat is essentially summed up as: click on an enemy and wait until he dies. If you die, respawn more creatures at your hut and do it again. There are no strategies involved beyond equipping your creatures with different weapons. [Axes, torches, or spears.] The difference between these weapons is pretty negligible, and don't really add to any strategies or tactics.

    Once you've befriended/killed 5 other tribes, you move onto the Civilizations stage. Here you have a city where you add a couple buildings to change how happy your citizens are, or how much money you produce. You can also add turrets. You are also given 1 type of unit for each unit type, for a grand total of 3 different units. You use these to capture spice mines around the planet, or other cities. You can capture a city economically, religiously, or militarily. Economics involves buying the city out, religion you target unhappy cities and convert them, and with military you right click on a city and select 'capture city'. That's really about all there is to this stage. The AI generally doesn't defend itself.

    Finally you get to the space stage. You're given a spaceship and told to go plant a colony on another planet. This stage has the most gameplay in the game, by far. But it has one incredibly annoying drawback: Every 3-5 minutes, [Literally. Sometimes even more often - I used a watch.] you will have one of your colonies attacked by pirates, unfriendly aliens, Grox, or you'll have to go and deal with ecological disasters on friendly alien planets. Typically the game tries to force you to do several of these all at once. I found myself going to an allied planet to stop an ecological disaster, only to find that my homeworld and colony are under attack by aliens. This stage would be fun if it weren't for these kinds of constant annoyances. Overall the gameplay for the space stage is similar to Star Control, though in my opi