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DIY Hybrid Car Kit
Hybride And The Groom writes "Building hybrids uses machinery that pollutes the environment. The solution? Ship the parts of a hybrid individually and get your customers to put the car together themselves. That's exactly what Robert Q Riley Enterprises is doing, according to a story on CNet today, with its XR-3 hybrid. It'll cost you $25,000 for the bits, plus zero dollars in manufacture, I hope. Better yet, cough up $200 for the blueprints and schematics and even build the parts yourself. It's no secret that many hybrid drivers are smug enough as it is. Allow them to brag about having built the damn cars themselves and we might be entering obscenely smug territory."
there are plenty of people doing nice electric S10's for under $10k including the donor car. The 40 miles round trip per charge is almost twice what I need.
I'll have the fries, please....
Only if your time is worth zero dollars.
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Like so many of these things, it's a motorcycle - not a car. It only has 3 wheels so that they don't have to meet safety standards.
Who knew you could lighten up a car if you stripped out all of the safety equipment?
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Why not design the car yourself - using bits and pieces found at your local junkyard? Better yet - smelt the metal in your garage and take up blacksmithing to make all the bits. Sort of like building your own computer from discrete transistors.
My rights don't need management.
Uh, building a hybrid at home probably makes more pollution than making it in a factory.
The reason they sell it as a kit is to avoid all the federal vehicle rules. By passing on assembly to the end-user, it becomes THEIR problem to get the car licensed.
Also I don't quite get the "zero dollars to manufacture". Lots of the steps involve lots of time, welding, painting, trips to the hardware store. That all costs many $$$.
most hybrids (GM) at least basically have a motor wedged between the engine and transmission. The engine and drive line are exactly the same as the non hybrid versions.
This being said I recently purchased a trusty 92 Corolla which after a little tweaking and cleaning up gives me over 40 mpg. how hard would it be to mfg a adapter kit between the transmission and engine similar to what GM does.
a big part of the problem is we keep building unnecessary crap. I know in our economy this is not beneficial but why not take cars we already have and update them.
So has this thing been crash tested? Do you have to get the car certified after you build it, so that you can drive it on the road? Are you any more liable if anything happens to a passenger, motorist, or pedestrian, in such a car?
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So, what happens when I build this thing, and try to get it registered at my local DMV?
DMV Drone: Make?
Me: Me
DMV Drone: No, who is the manufacturer?
Me: Me
DMV Drone: (sigh). Model?
Me: Mostly done in Solidworks.
DMV Drone: NEXT!
Can someone point us to hard data comparing overall carbon footprint, actual mileage, monetary cost to the consumer, environmental impact, etc. comparing hybrids and conventional cars? I am wondering specifically if the Prius beats a Corolla over a five-year span as a commute car. I suspect it does not, but do not have the facts.
...are we scared yet?
From the web site:
So the $25,000 is a guess at what you might be able to buy parts to build it for. It isn't an offer to sell a kit.
The preferred solution is to not have a problem.
All I want is a light, very efficient hybrid/electric vehicle, that doesn't look ridiculous. Even if its stripped down for weight, add a plastic body that has the same rough shape as a "real" car. I hope every innovation doesn't have to look like something brought here by Mork from Ork.
I also looked for a price on this engine. The first I saw was about $2800 for a remanufactured unit, with a $700 core charge. It's used in bobcats and similar. If you're building this "car," you won't have a core, so it's going to cost you $3500.
The preferred solution is to not have a problem.
Crimeny, having had a VW Beetle I would estimate that you would have to factor in the cost of a barn to keep enough spare exhausts, wings, sills, filler, primer, welding rods etc to keep 10 of the damn things operative (at least in the UK).
They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
I think this guy is pure genius.
Instead of creating his own auto factory and taking years of research, development, marketing, and infrastructure, he just sells out the blueprints so you can build it yourself.
He doesn't have to worry about competing with other auto manufacturers, pressure from Oil companies or ambulance chasers suing him because of some manufacturing flaw.
How long until somebody else takes his design and builds something much better? I would love to see the mythbusters guys building one of these.
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Smarts aren't actually that fuel efficient -- 35mpg hwy/31mpg city if I remember correctly. It's not even a regular hybrid, let alone a *plug-in hybrid*, like this vehicle. Of course, for this vehicle, ignore the BS mileage figures; most EV and PHEV manufacturers come up with fake "mpg" figures that assume you drive X miles on electricity and Y miles on gasoline, where X is much greater than Y, and then ignore the electricity. Still, it's hugely beneficial. Even from our current grid, according to a DOE study, due to the greater efficiency of power plants, you get a third lower CO2 emissions by going electric.
For those who are interested in going electric, and aren't into novelty kit cars, here's a list of 33 upcoming EVs and PHEVs, excluding motorcycles and commercial vans/semis, not counting concept cars, and not counting cars from new companies that haven't shown compelling evidence of working toward production.
Do you work at Taco Bell? The guy at the drive-through said that to me last night.
It depends upon the regulations of the state or province. In British Columbia, Canada, a three-wheeled vehicle with an enclosed passenger compartment is considered an automobile. Some states call vehicles with 2 front wheels and 1 rear wheel cars, while others call the motorcycles. Some places it's a matter of engine displacement, body styles, etc.
I read Slashdot for the headlines, because the headlines, unlike the articles, are usually original and never duplicated
rqriley has been selling "plans" for decades. they have been trying to get people to build the tri-magnum for 30 years without success...
http://www.rqriley.com/tri-mag.html
anyone with an ounce of mechnaical skill can do that without the "plans" and a regular car in less time with less cost.
Hell go get a smashed prius, a light car you want to make a hybrid and simply put the drivetrain in the car. All done, really easy and not rocket science.
Hell it's not hard to replace the ECM for the prius with something that is more hackable if you really wanted to.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Well, if you enjoy tinkering with stuff and would otherwise have the time free anyhow, then it might even be that the time is of a negative cost.
That is to say, if you spend $25k for the unit, but spend 200 hours being rather entertained by putting it together, then you've just spend $25k on the parts and saved $x on whatever else you might have spend that money on (movies, video games, trips, etc).
I do a lot of the additions/repairs around the house. If might cost *more* than a plumber/carpenter/etc if you count what my day job's hourly rate is, but for me the cost of supplies is paying for both the renos and the entertainment of doing them.
One man's burden is another man's leisure, I'd rather be working on neat projects around the house than baking under a hot sun swinging a stick at a dimpled white ball.
My wife has a Prius, and she gets about 225 MPG because most of the time she makes me drive her around in my car.
Help fight poverty: Punch a poor person.
You don't keep all 10 operative. You keep 2 operative and put your 8 organ donors in the barn. 4-to-1 seems like about the right ratio to keep an old Beetle together.
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
AMEN. I had a 79 diesel Volkswagen Jetta (52 whole HP!) It got 45-48 mpg all the time, with my foot to the floor most of the time, but it couldn't maintain 50 mph when driving on the hilly Interstates in West Virginia and Tennessee. Just move to the far right and hope not to get run over.
So new hybrids must have enough battery storage capacity to get over those hills, more than just to get going after a stop light.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain. --Friederich Schiller
> At least that way repair shops won't have to be all confused about fixing the new technology [...]
Yeah, they can be all confused trying to figure out what the user has done to the thing.
Let's take an example we can relate to. A company advertises that they can send you the parts to a PC and directions on putting it together. Many of the unwashed public take advantage of this. Local nerdshops are inundated with half-assed assembly jobs, and the natives get really unfriendly when they're told that the best thing to do is junk it as a bad investment and buy an assembled car, er, PC off the lot, er shelf.
One could argue that this deal is for people who know what they're doing. I submit that this is not exactly true -- it's for people with $25,000 who *think* they know what they're doing.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
If you sacrifice the bed, you can get a 92 mile range commuter vehicle out of an old S10.
http://www.austinev.org/evinfo/build/eva-selectingavehicle.html
http://www.evalbum.com/037
That may be much more than what you need, but the less you draw down your batteries, the longer your batteries will last. If you never let your batteries drain below 95%, they will last much, much longer than if you're draining them halfway down every day. In the long run, this may save you a lot of money, as battery replacement is the majority of the cost per mile for running an electric vehicle.
Several things wrong with this.
1) The amount of energy needed to produce a modern battery generally only measures a few charge cycles worth. Virtually every peer-reviewed study of cars shows exactly what you'd expect: that far more energy is consumed during their lifetimes than during their construction. Your average car will burn a couple times it's own weight in fuel over its lifespan, and none of that is "recycled" like most of the car's body.
2) Yes, EVs cost more to buy than diesel cars currently. They also consume electricity which averages $0.10/kWh in the US instead of diesel which averages, what, $4.30/gal? Your average 40mpg-diesel sedan would take about 250Wh/mi electric, which equates to 9.3 cents per mile diesel and 2.5 cents per mile electric. Assuming reasonable battery longevity (i.e., either NiMH, zebra, or automotive li-ions, not lead-acid or traditional li-ions), the total cost of ownership for EVs is very favorable to them over their lifespans. This allows all sorts of methods to work around sticker shock for those who are concerned, such as longer loans, leases, surcharges on electricity fillups or battery swaps, battery rental, or so forth -- all of which give you a normal up-front cost and monthly operations costs that are still lower than what the average driver would spend on gas or diesel. And this is just with current battery costs; they're falling fast. Ener1 (parent company of battery maker EnerDel), for example, expects their cell prices to be cut in half over the next few years. Most automotive li-ion aren't even close to being limited by raw material costs.
3) Most diesel numbers are quite distorted to boot. Yes, diesel engines are more efficient than gasoline engines. No, they're not *that* much more efficient. Most people will look at some european diesel and lament that they're getting 50mpg or so and we can't get it here.
A) Diesel is simply a more dense fuel -- about 15% denser. Gasoline mpg != diesel mpg. Just ethanol mpgs are going to be inherently lower than gasoline due to its lower density, diesel is inherently going to get an artificial 15% boost that isn't representative of, say, it's CO2 footprint or how much oil it represents.
B) The european drive cycle is more lax than the revised EPA drivecycle, and is more similar to the old EPA drivecycle. Remember how much nicer the official numbers used to look in the US? Remember how they worked out in the real world? Same issue.
C) Sometimes the "gallons" you see on mpg numbers for european cars are imperial gallons, not US gallons. Imperial gallons are larger.
In general, a diesel car will emit around 80% as much CO2 per mile and consume about 80% as much oil chemical energy. It's a difference, and even a relevant one, but not as big of a difference as it at first appears.
Do you work at Taco Bell? The guy at the drive-through said that to me last night.
Hmm, could you put this in terms of a car analogy?
You built it yourself. Why would you be taking it to a repair shop?
And what is with the can't do attitude? A constant theme on /. is the "anti-science" or "anti-intelligence" attitude in the US. Why is an "anti-ability to bolt a few parts together" attitude any better?
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
As an aside, I've never actually encountered a hybrid owner who was smug about it. A few of my friends own them and it has never even actually been mentioned other than when I was thinking of getting one and asked how it had been running.
At least that one looks cool but, really, who has the time to do this? If they have the time then do they have the interest or the money?
Right, I mean, we all have time for slashdot, but you can't exactly build a car in your cubicle without people noticing!
Prov 9:8 Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you.
Hey, everyone knows you always have parts left over when you do it yourself. You must be one of those 'safety' people who want to take power from the people. Enjoy your time in hell, communist!
Er, what I meant to say was,
I agree.
I don't like Linux. This doesn't make me a troll.
> You built it yourself. Why would you be taking it to a repair shop?
Because... it doesn't work? Because you've botched the ignition or torqued the steering improperly or pinched a wire somewhere?
> And what is with the can't do attitude? A constant theme on /. is the "anti-science" or "anti-intelligence" attitude in the US. Why is an "anti-ability to bolt a few parts together" attitude any better?
Oh, there's obviously going to be many successes. Lots of people have successfully built kit cars -- the AC Cobra replicas, Lotus Seven, etc. I'm not disputing that people who put together kit cars couldn't do this. I'm wondering aloud if this is a way to solve the carbon footprint of construction. I'm having a difficult time believing that the kind of person who wants to build a car to reduce their carbon footprint is the same kind of person who builds a Pagano in his garage.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Right, only two are available today. But the rest are coming out in the next couple years. Even if some (or even a large chunk of them) were cancelled or delayed, that'd still be a huge number of vehicles. And while perhaps a third of them are luxury or performance machines well beyond an ordinary person's price range, most are not. More expensive than a gasoline car, sure, but nothing that you can't make up in reduced operations costs.
Do you work at Taco Bell? The guy at the drive-through said that to me last night.
It happens all the time in the UK. There's a healthy market for kit cars (well, car kits) and some people design and build the entire thing themselves. You build it, the man from the VOSA comes round, makes sure the brakes work and so on, gives you your SVA (Single Vehicle Approval) certificate and you're good to go. The requirements are lower than for production cars (eg. no crash testing, for obvious reasons), but as long as the brakes and steering work and the wheels won't fall off it won't be a danger to other road users - the safety of the driver/builder is their own problem.
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I hear you.
I have friends and acquaintances who own hybrids, I live in an area where they seem to be fairly common, and I have never, ever encountered anyone being smug about it. I have, however, gotten seriously tired of self-righteous people complaining about these supposed hordes of smug hybrid drivers.
It seems to have become a requirement: "Any mention of hybrid vehicles must by law be accompanied by a reference to their smug owners."
Want smug? Try talking to a Hummer owner.
"I can't imagine a DIY vehicle getting approved over road safety."
All that is required in my state is to document a reasonable number of the major parts (to answer any questions like "how do I know they aren't stolen?") and coordinate with DMV to send an officer by to inspect it. Upon his approval title will be issued. Also works with antique vehicles from states that didn't require titles for transfer.
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