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DIY Hybrid Car Kit
Hybride And The Groom writes "Building hybrids uses machinery that pollutes the environment. The solution? Ship the parts of a hybrid individually and get your customers to put the car together themselves. That's exactly what Robert Q Riley Enterprises is doing, according to a story on CNet today, with its XR-3 hybrid. It'll cost you $25,000 for the bits, plus zero dollars in manufacture, I hope. Better yet, cough up $200 for the blueprints and schematics and even build the parts yourself. It's no secret that many hybrid drivers are smug enough as it is. Allow them to brag about having built the damn cars themselves and we might be entering obscenely smug territory."
At least that way repair shops won't have to be all confused about fixing the new technology that they didn't have time to learn about yet cuz the owner can just swap anything out.
Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
At least that one looks cool but, really, who has the time to do this? If they have the time then do they have the interest or the money?
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
there are plenty of people doing nice electric S10's for under $10k including the donor car. The 40 miles round trip per charge is almost twice what I need.
I'll have the fries, please....
Only if your time is worth zero dollars.
NetInfo connection failed for server 127.0.0.1/local
Like so many of these things, it's a motorcycle - not a car. It only has 3 wheels so that they don't have to meet safety standards.
Who knew you could lighten up a car if you stripped out all of the safety equipment?
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Building hybrids uses machinery that pollutes the environment. The solution? Don't build anything!
That said, though, I looked up what would be required to build an all-electric vehicle and it was about $10k not including a vehicle to convert. Not a cheap hobby, unfortunately :/
=Smidge=
By providing prints and the ability to build parts/put the damned thing together to begin with it's not to give smug yuppies something to be conceded about. It's to give hotrodders the ability to make supped up hybrid! Seriously, I would love to get most of one of these kits, put two kits into a car if possible for the extra kick, throw in a powerful V6 instead of a four (or even three) banger, then put it all in the body of a Dodge Charger.
The electric part could actually take it off the line better than a gas engine, the gas engine would add the power, something like that should kick ass on the quarter mile then do a relatively slow victory lap without using any gas.
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Why not design the car yourself - using bits and pieces found at your local junkyard? Better yet - smelt the metal in your garage and take up blacksmithing to make all the bits. Sort of like building your own computer from discrete transistors.
My rights don't need management.
Uh, building a hybrid at home probably makes more pollution than making it in a factory.
The reason they sell it as a kit is to avoid all the federal vehicle rules. By passing on assembly to the end-user, it becomes THEIR problem to get the car licensed.
Also I don't quite get the "zero dollars to manufacture". Lots of the steps involve lots of time, welding, painting, trips to the hardware store. That all costs many $$$.
And you plan on shipping those parts using what exactly? I'm willing to be that the energy used to plant-machine the car then drive it to my house on hybrid power, and the energy used to fossil-fueled 18-wheeler ship a ton of crap to my house are at least on par-- if the latter is not even worse.
And what about packaging? Because seriously, if this is what cmos batteries take to ship, I'd had to see how many Styrofoam peanuts go into shipping a car.
UTF-8: There and Back Again
...getting it insured. Just ask anyone who's ever built one of those DIY motorcycle kits or a custom shop (like OCC).
- Despite popular opinion, I am not perfect.
"The electric part could actually take it off the line better than a gas engine,"
THIS.
The best part about that is you wouldn't need a bank of batteries to do the job. A large capacitor bank (or super-capacitors once they're available) would work great. Just enough juice to break the inertia of the car and lug it off the line is all you really need.
most hybrids (GM) at least basically have a motor wedged between the engine and transmission. The engine and drive line are exactly the same as the non hybrid versions.
This being said I recently purchased a trusty 92 Corolla which after a little tweaking and cleaning up gives me over 40 mpg. how hard would it be to mfg a adapter kit between the transmission and engine similar to what GM does.
a big part of the problem is we keep building unnecessary crap. I know in our economy this is not beneficial but why not take cars we already have and update them.
At $25000 for the parts alone, what idiot is going to buy this separately? Its cheaper to buy a pre-built vehicle like Prius or a Honda hybrid.
So has this thing been crash tested? Do you have to get the car certified after you build it, so that you can drive it on the road? Are you any more liable if anything happens to a passenger, motorist, or pedestrian, in such a car?
Twinstiq, game news
So, what happens when I build this thing, and try to get it registered at my local DMV?
DMV Drone: Make?
Me: Me
DMV Drone: No, who is the manufacturer?
Me: Me
DMV Drone: (sigh). Model?
Me: Mostly done in Solidworks.
DMV Drone: NEXT!
Can someone point us to hard data comparing overall carbon footprint, actual mileage, monetary cost to the consumer, environmental impact, etc. comparing hybrids and conventional cars? I am wondering specifically if the Prius beats a Corolla over a five-year span as a commute car. I suspect it does not, but do not have the facts.
...are we scared yet?
From the web site:
So the $25,000 is a guess at what you might be able to buy parts to build it for. It isn't an offer to sell a kit.
The preferred solution is to not have a problem.
All I want is a light, very efficient hybrid/electric vehicle, that doesn't look ridiculous. Even if its stripped down for weight, add a plastic body that has the same rough shape as a "real" car. I hope every innovation doesn't have to look like something brought here by Mork from Ork.
I don't see how this eliminates the carbon footprint of building the car. It only moves it. Unless all of your tools are alternative energy powered, and the vehicles used to deliver the parts to you are likewise alternative energy powered, nothing has been accomplished here except moving where the carbon has been emitted. I fail to see how this helps the planet.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
I also looked for a price on this engine. The first I saw was about $2800 for a remanufactured unit, with a $700 core charge. It's used in bobcats and similar. If you're building this "car," you won't have a core, so it's going to cost you $3500.
The preferred solution is to not have a problem.
I figure that if they are selling the frame, drive train, and batteries, then they can allow companies or individuals to put their own cars together. The idea of a kit makes sense. It would be extremely interesting, if Tesla's next car is built to allow for an energy generator to be added. i.e. a plugable system. That way, it encourages new add-ons.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
I submit that this project, though good in itself, would be of no use and therefore a waste of time in Ontario, Canada because the government over there will not license a similar project from a local manufacturer, Zenn http://www.zenncars.com/.
You wonder who these folks in government are working for. I suspect that they are protecting big oil.
Their argument is that these cars have not been proven to be safe on [Canadian] roads, though these same cars are available in the USA where they have not caused any trouble.
Has anyone used these cars? How do they perform?
Crimeny, having had a VW Beetle I would estimate that you would have to factor in the cost of a barn to keep enough spare exhausts, wings, sills, filler, primer, welding rods etc to keep 10 of the damn things operative (at least in the UK).
They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
I think this guy is pure genius.
Instead of creating his own auto factory and taking years of research, development, marketing, and infrastructure, he just sells out the blueprints so you can build it yourself.
He doesn't have to worry about competing with other auto manufacturers, pressure from Oil companies or ambulance chasers suing him because of some manufacturing flaw.
How long until somebody else takes his design and builds something much better? I would love to see the mythbusters guys building one of these.
HTML is obsolete. It's time for a new, simpler and richer markup language.
Just enough juice to break the inertia of the car and lug it off the line is all you really need.
Until it gets hilly!
A lot of people forget about hills - even mild ones. That tiny little gas engine won't climb hills very well, so you'd better have enough battery power to go up the largest grade you are likely to encounter - and then recharge fast enough for you to tackle the next one.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
No, the real reason for selling kits is to avoid safety and pollution controls. A manufacturer has to deal with those, but a kit maker doesn't, at least to some degree. I don't know all the ins and outs of it. Maybe kit makers avoid those problems only if the kit modifies an existing car. But I bet this guy avoids them too since he is not selling a car. Maybe the catch is that the builder (the kit buyer) will have to deal with safety and pollution controls, and probably not be able to register it.
Infuriate left and right
"...and performance like a conventional automobile."
With a top speed of 80, I don't think so. Except maybe during LA at crunch time, this car would get run over on pretty much another highway system going as slow as 80 MPH.
If you only intent to use it to commute to work and you don't need the highways, then maybe this is the car for you. But at $25k, you would have to commute to work for many years to recoup the investment.
Now, if you buy it for the ego factor, well then! $25k is cheap. But, I gotta say...when are these specialty car makers going to figure out that if they really want to impact the market, they are gonna have to offer up a price of $12k to attract the people who could really benefit from a 125 MPG vehicle? The average factory worker making $10/hr could really use this car, that is, if they can even afford a second car. This car ain't exactly family friendly, so maybe even Joe Bob Factory worker would never buy this car.
Bearded Dragon
Building hybrids uses machinery that pollutes the environment. The solution? Ship the parts of a hybrid individually and get your customers to put the car together themselves.
And shipping stuff doesn't pollute the environment? You ship a bunch of parts to somebody, and it's going to go by diesel truck, diesel-powered ship, and jet airplane, all notorious polluters. Plus all the boxes and packing materials are going to go into the trash bin and/or recycling bin, where they will be hauled away by still more diesel trucks.
I'm getting a little tired of these green gimmicks. People think they can spend a little money or put up with a little inconvenience and Save the Planet. They're fooling themselves — and supplying material to those Nuke the Whales assholes who think the solution to all environmental issues is to poke fun at environmentalists.
If you really want to StP, agitate for real measures. Unfortunately, real measures hurt: taxes on non-renewable resources, taxes on pollution, putting up with slow and inconvenient public transit instead of convenient private vehicles, using less convenient forms of distribution that don't rely on monumental use of packaging.
As any athlete will tell you, change hurts. People who want to be green without making real sacrifices are as much in denial as any global warming "skeptic".
It depends upon the regulations of the state or province. In British Columbia, Canada, a three-wheeled vehicle with an enclosed passenger compartment is considered an automobile. Some states call vehicles with 2 front wheels and 1 rear wheel cars, while others call the motorcycles. Some places it's a matter of engine displacement, body styles, etc.
I read Slashdot for the headlines, because the headlines, unlike the articles, are usually original and never duplicated
Great idea, too bad it's fugly, more expensive than Honda's new hybrid at $25k, and basically just a motorcycle.
Call me when they make a Prius kit, or a drop in electric engine replacement for the Civic. ;)
-- sudo.ca
rqriley has been selling "plans" for decades. they have been trying to get people to build the tri-magnum for 30 years without success...
http://www.rqriley.com/tri-mag.html
anyone with an ounce of mechnaical skill can do that without the "plans" and a regular car in less time with less cost.
Hell go get a smashed prius, a light car you want to make a hybrid and simply put the drivetrain in the car. All done, really easy and not rocket science.
Hell it's not hard to replace the ECM for the prius with something that is more hackable if you really wanted to.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Well, if you enjoy tinkering with stuff and would otherwise have the time free anyhow, then it might even be that the time is of a negative cost.
That is to say, if you spend $25k for the unit, but spend 200 hours being rather entertained by putting it together, then you've just spend $25k on the parts and saved $x on whatever else you might have spend that money on (movies, video games, trips, etc).
I do a lot of the additions/repairs around the house. If might cost *more* than a plumber/carpenter/etc if you count what my day job's hourly rate is, but for me the cost of supplies is paying for both the renos and the entertainment of doing them.
One man's burden is another man's leisure, I'd rather be working on neat projects around the house than baking under a hot sun swinging a stick at a dimpled white ball.
Well for those that would have the money to buy something like this, and the time to put it together, doing the above (or at least some of the above) might actually be a fun hobby.
It's not like people don't invest a lot of time and cash into restoring old cars or modding their own vehicles, after all.
Personally I want a Delorian with a flux capacitor...
Allow them to brag about having built the damn cars themselves and we might be entering obscenely smug territory."
Yeah, but by then their smugness is pretty much warranted.
You don't keep all 10 operative. You keep 2 operative and put your 8 organ donors in the barn. 4-to-1 seems like about the right ratio to keep an old Beetle together.
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
AMEN. I had a 79 diesel Volkswagen Jetta (52 whole HP!) It got 45-48 mpg all the time, with my foot to the floor most of the time, but it couldn't maintain 50 mph when driving on the hilly Interstates in West Virginia and Tennessee. Just move to the far right and hope not to get run over.
So new hybrids must have enough battery storage capacity to get over those hills, more than just to get going after a stop light.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain. --Friederich Schiller
Who's to blame for accidents if some poorly owner-assembled cars fall apart on the highways?
Drag racing generally isn't done on hills...
=Smidge=
First, its design is far safer than a motorcycle. In fact its safer than a trike, because most all three wheelers to date are made backwards, in that they are completely unstable while decelerating on a turn. This one is the right way around so it is much more stable during the evasive manoeuvres that count. I don't care a whole hill of beans how fast a vehicle accelerates, but its got to stop fast without flipping over or its just not safe enough to drive. If you added an active stability control system to this machine you would have a safer machine than most inexpensive cars on the street.
Second, loosing a wheel (4->3) does shed a lot of weight, and gives a major boost to the power weight ratio which directly translates to MPG. There is no 4 wheeled EV that is capable of making my home-to-work round trip, or I'd have bought it in a heart beat. By my own calculations I believe a three wheeled EV/Hybrid could do it easily. My poor Prius just broke 100K last week, and its less than 3 years old. I had played with the idea of designing and building something very close to this vehicle myself but I don't have nearly the kind of time needed to actually build one, and like many others have noted here, how do you get permission to actually put one on the road? If it does qualify as a motorcycle that would be a good thing. A kit would be nice, but I'd much rather buy one off the lot, which due to availability won't be happening any time soon.
If I could buy this off the lot I'd probably do it in a heartbeat.
If you sacrifice the bed, you can get a 92 mile range commuter vehicle out of an old S10.
http://www.austinev.org/evinfo/build/eva-selectingavehicle.html
http://www.evalbum.com/037
That may be much more than what you need, but the less you draw down your batteries, the longer your batteries will last. If you never let your batteries drain below 95%, they will last much, much longer than if you're draining them halfway down every day. In the long run, this may save you a lot of money, as battery replacement is the majority of the cost per mile for running an electric vehicle.
Sounds like a smorgasbord for lawyers all over the world. Bring on the personal injury and negligence claims! w00t!!
No, the POWER/Weight ratio of an electric system is amazing compared to all but the most high-end gasoline engines (read: high-strung racing engines that get completely rebuilt after every use).
It's the ENERGY/Weight ratio of batteries that pales compared to gasoline:
Gasoline: 47 MJ/kg
Pb-Acid Batt: 0.10 MJ/kg
NiCd Batt: 0.20 MJ/kg
Li-Ion Batt: 0.65 Mj/kg
All values are approximate, of course.
I other words, you can release stored energy from a battery at a much faster rate than you can from gasoline, but you can't store as much. There exists electric drag racers than can and do get under 12 seconds for the 1/4 - very much on par for gas engines.
=Smidge=
The way I understand it a motorcycle really has one and only one safety feature, maneuverability. You don't ever want to get hit and if you're careful you can often avoid getting hit when a car wouldn't be able to. A car on the other hand has size, crumple zones, mass, multiple airbags, decently strong building materials and so on which let it it take a hit without killing the occupants. This thing seems to fail under both criteria.
Exactly. You need to have a kilowatt hour or two of reserve charge to "average out" the hills. Optimally, your motor should be sized to haul you up an interstate at 5-6% grade (6% = legal max) at what you consider a reasonable speed, while your engine should be sized to manage a 1-2% grade (you generally won't surpass that as a running average of slopes on an interstate). Smaller mountain roads may be steeper and have higher average grades, but you won't be climbing them at nearly as high of a speed, either.
Do you work at Taco Bell? The guy at the drive-through said that to me last night.
Actually there's a legal Motor Vehicle Saftey Standard (MVSS) requirement from Transport Canada stating that they must meet crash requirements before they may be certified as road legal. Having pursued interest in Factory Five kit cars myself, they had to prove crash-worthiness (destroy 3 of them) before they could sell kits in Canada. These include things like airbags, disc brakes, braking distance, bumper size and momentum absorbed into the bumper....you get the picture. http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/menu.htm
No, the *energy* to weight ratio of batteries sucks. The *power* to weight ratio of modern automotive li-ions is incredible. AltairNano's can deliver as much as 4-5kW/kg. If you have something like the LightningCar with a range of 180 miles, and let's assume 200Wh/mi, that's 36kWh, divide by 90Wh/kg, that's 400kg, so about 1.8MW of power = 2,400 horsepower. The batteries aren't the limiting factor; the motor is (and electric motors are pretty light). Even if you assume 100kg, the weight of a typical non-sports-car ICE drivetrain, that's around 600 horsepower. And factor in that ICEs only deliver a fraction of their horsepower at most RPMs/torque requirements, while electric motors are at full power across most of the curve, so you really need to significantly increase those electric numbers.
Even with their low state of maturity, EVs are already challenging gasoline records. The eight-wheeled Eliica is trying to beat gasoline speed records, while Wrightspeed is convinced that the production version of their 0-60 in 2.5 second X1, known as the SR-71, will be able to beat a Veyron at 0-60.
As for energy to weight, comparing the raw energy in batteries to the raw energy in gasoline, and yeah, you'll come to the conclusion that they're atrocious. However, there are a few things to note. 1) Gasoline engines only get a small (~20%) fraction of the energy of the fuel out as torque; EVs get ~80-90% of the energy in their batteries out as torque. 2) Gas tanks are light, but internal combustion engines are heavy. Electric motors are light but batteries are heavy. The paradigms are reversed; batteries aren't competing against a gas tank for weight and space, but against the *engine*. Currently, for a vehicle of range comparable to that of your typical gasoline vehicle, yes, batteries lose -- however, not by a margin of nearly 100:1 as it may appear just by comparing energy densities, but only by a margin of about 3:1. And, quite honestly, some next-gen batteries may be able to give a three-fold or greater increase in energy density (silicon nanowires, silicon nanoparticles, tin nanoparticles, etc for the anode, and things like nanoscale-layered or fluorinated metal oxides for the cathode).
Do you work at Taco Bell? The guy at the drive-through said that to me last night.
are gearheads who don't care too much about hybrids, although I'm sure there are some out there. Interesting idea, but not sure I'd go for it. A kit car is not my idea of a great daily driver, which is all I would use a hybrid for. Given the suggested price, I'd have a Toyota hybrid.
Also, I should point out that making the parts pollutes a whole heck of a lot more than putting them together.
Several things wrong with this.
1) The amount of energy needed to produce a modern battery generally only measures a few charge cycles worth. Virtually every peer-reviewed study of cars shows exactly what you'd expect: that far more energy is consumed during their lifetimes than during their construction. Your average car will burn a couple times it's own weight in fuel over its lifespan, and none of that is "recycled" like most of the car's body.
2) Yes, EVs cost more to buy than diesel cars currently. They also consume electricity which averages $0.10/kWh in the US instead of diesel which averages, what, $4.30/gal? Your average 40mpg-diesel sedan would take about 250Wh/mi electric, which equates to 9.3 cents per mile diesel and 2.5 cents per mile electric. Assuming reasonable battery longevity (i.e., either NiMH, zebra, or automotive li-ions, not lead-acid or traditional li-ions), the total cost of ownership for EVs is very favorable to them over their lifespans. This allows all sorts of methods to work around sticker shock for those who are concerned, such as longer loans, leases, surcharges on electricity fillups or battery swaps, battery rental, or so forth -- all of which give you a normal up-front cost and monthly operations costs that are still lower than what the average driver would spend on gas or diesel. And this is just with current battery costs; they're falling fast. Ener1 (parent company of battery maker EnerDel), for example, expects their cell prices to be cut in half over the next few years. Most automotive li-ion aren't even close to being limited by raw material costs.
3) Most diesel numbers are quite distorted to boot. Yes, diesel engines are more efficient than gasoline engines. No, they're not *that* much more efficient. Most people will look at some european diesel and lament that they're getting 50mpg or so and we can't get it here.
A) Diesel is simply a more dense fuel -- about 15% denser. Gasoline mpg != diesel mpg. Just ethanol mpgs are going to be inherently lower than gasoline due to its lower density, diesel is inherently going to get an artificial 15% boost that isn't representative of, say, it's CO2 footprint or how much oil it represents.
B) The european drive cycle is more lax than the revised EPA drivecycle, and is more similar to the old EPA drivecycle. Remember how much nicer the official numbers used to look in the US? Remember how they worked out in the real world? Same issue.
C) Sometimes the "gallons" you see on mpg numbers for european cars are imperial gallons, not US gallons. Imperial gallons are larger.
In general, a diesel car will emit around 80% as much CO2 per mile and consume about 80% as much oil chemical energy. It's a difference, and even a relevant one, but not as big of a difference as it at first appears.
Do you work at Taco Bell? The guy at the drive-through said that to me last night.
Over here diesel is about 4.75 PLN and cheap vegetable oil in 3L bottles is 3.65 PLN per liter. I just hope there will be no en masse transition so that I can convert my future Diesel car to SVO and feel smug about it.
Those who would give up liberty to obtain working drivers, deserve neither liberty nor working drivers.
The answer to your question may be this South Park episode. It's all about the hybrid hype.
People in sports cars *are* smug, but then again, we don't spend all day trying to prove to the world how much we love the world.
In fact, can a few more of you order this kit / buy hybrids / take public transportation and balance me out? Despite displacing only 1.3 litres, my motor's motor is still pretty fuel-hungry, especially when pushed hard. Thank you!
Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!
Foy my brother. He was a custom fabricator, and he said the only problem was with bikes that actually had the frame fabbed. Most custom shops (OCC for example) use pre-fabbed frames, and those are no problem to insure.
To quote LongNoi "QZTR was right and won't leave me alone because I called him a moron when I was wrong" FYS
So why were you bringing up non-safety related advantages as though they demonstrated anything?
To quote LongNoi "QZTR was right and won't leave me alone because I called him a moron when I was wrong" FYS
This is Slashdot. Please stick to car analogies so we can understand.
Oh wait...
He thinks that will reduce pollution? Let's take a look at all the polluting steps he's just added to the car production process.
50+ trips to the hardware/autoparts store for the extra parts and tools you either break, lose, or just want because they're cool
30+ trips to the strip club because you're up til midnight in the garage and wife won't notice you're gone because she's asleep on the couch
You'd need to purchase a large assortment of tools
You'd need to talk to a large assortment of tools working in the hardware store.
Extra packing material used to ship this thing and the tools you'll have to buy
Karate chopping styrofoam blocks that come in the boxes thus scattering tiny pieces everywhere
Power to run the tools, A/C, lights, etc... for the countless hours you'll spend in the garage
Power to cool down the extra fridge you'll add in the garage so you won't have to walk so far to get a beer
Minimum 2 trips to the emergency room, see above point for reasoning
Minimum 1 trip to jail for DWI
Towing the car home after filling it the very first time with E85
Nothing you posted there has anything to do with safety requirements.
Do you even have an idea WTF is being discussed? You statement about the Nissan Micra makes it pretty clear you don't, as a cars performance on safety tests has NOTHING to do with the stringency of the requirements that governing bodies put in place.
You're trying to say one steak tastes better than another because it meets FDA standards, even though they both meet the standard and it doesn't measure flavor anyway.
To quote LongNoi "QZTR was right and won't leave me alone because I called him a moron when I was wrong" FYS
- Small shaft drive motorcycle IC engine.
Very good ideas, but are you sure of this one? My impression was that the real fuel economy of a hybrid is the use of an Atkinson cycle engine. I'm thinking a motorcycle engine will significantly cut into your fuel economy. It (Otto engines in general) provides power you don't need at a cost the design can't afford.
(But the rest is brilliant.)
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
"AMEN. I had a 79 diesel Volkswagen Jetta (52 whole HP!) It got 45-48 mpg all the time, with my foot to the floor most of the time, but it couldn't maintain 50 mph when driving on the hilly Interstates in West Virginia and Tennessee. Just move to the far right and hope not to get run over."
You must have had worn injectors or bad timing. I had an 86 Jetta, same engine and heavier body, and could do 80 all day long. It would occasionally complain on a steep incline, but a downshift to 4th generally took care of that.
Now, ACCELERATION was a different matter - 0-60 timed with an hourglass.
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
"Allow them to brag about having built the damn cars themselves and we might be entering obscenely smug territory."
I don't drive; I built my own bicycle.
If these things are even vaguely successful, someone will eventually start up a build-and-delivery service. If my commute didn't involve delivering the children to school, I'd seriously consider one myself.
Wake up - the future is arriving faster than you think.
You'd probably go through similar set of hurdles to insure the thing. Who would insure an unknown design with unknown QC of manufacture?
Thanks for the list of upcoming EVs and PHEVs. It looks like not many are available now and some of the cars available now are only for the wealthy (anything from Tesla Motors). I'd hardly say that debunks "the most common criticism of electric vehicles": "there's so little out there!" as that list says it does. That list seems to support that criticism quite well. None of this is your fault, as you didn't write the list or the intro hype found on that page as far as I can tell.
Furthermore, the list doesn't contend with on-the-ground realities: plans can be scuttled before or after a fleet of vehicles have been built. I think the movie "Who Killed the Electric Car?" shows this quite well with a couple of examples (GM's EV1 and the Toyota RAV4EV). Regardless of the reasons why those automakers offered then pulled their cars, consumers don't need their cars taken from them.
Unless the car is available now it's vapor and history shows that if it's not available to own the car can become vapor again even after someone drives it.
Digital Citizen
A slashdotter is calling others "smug" now?
Oh wait, I forgot, Slashdotters are right, that makes it not count as smugness!
I put together and drive cars that look like 1950's alien spaceships. It's just my thing, you know.
Forget the batteries. For the next 5years, I would be happy to buy a cool car for $10k that got 100mpg on diesel. Forget batteries. Thats like baking your own bread, yummy, but gets old quick.
Shipping all the parts on trucks that visibly spew tons of pollution just so the manufacturer doesn't put out as much? All this is doing is shifting who does the polluting. And in all probability, this maneuvering will cause more pollution. Lets look at this for what it is, a way for the manufacturer to save money by cutting out expensive laborer jobs.
Kind of remove the environmental benefits, though.
When we have the possibility to produce less, better & more efficient, why on hell do we produce more and as dirty as before???
4 a: marked by sham or hypocrisy b: marked by self-conscious virtue
Why the ridiculous chrome wheels? Those donkers probably weigh 25lbs each.
Because you implied that because it was a three wheeler, that inherently means that it has no safety features. All that it means is that if it's a three wheeler, it *can* have less safety features. But there are plenty of reasons to build a three wheeler apart from that.
Do you work at Taco Bell? The guy at the drive-through said that to me last night.
Do you think the cost would justify the time investment to build your own vehicle? I doubt it.
Eliminate the unknown with a tracking device
While you can register a home-built car as a Street Rod, there's strong opposition to you using it as a daily driver ... which was what I stated.
That's what the deal was with the Honda Accord hybrid - more power and acceleration than the normal Accord V6, and better mileage. No appeal whatsoever to the smug hybrid types, and the people who liked it complained that it didn't have a sun roof, and bought regular V6 models. Oh well.
When you said "Actually it does" then proceeded to post a reply that has nothing to do with the difference between mandated safety requirements, you demonstrated that you clearly do not know WTF is being discussed.
And no, your post has nothing to do with the difference between safety requirements of the US and EU, which is WTF is being discussed.
To quote LongNoi "QZTR was right and won't leave me alone because I called him a moron when I was wrong" FYS
1. Microcars are so short that any non-professional driver of any vehicle with an elevated driving position is not going to see them, and you do not want to be hit by a large vehicle in a Microcar.
2. They're pretty much useless in snow or mud.
3. Without adequate alternative electricity sources, plug-in cars run on coal. The energy per unit of pollution is better than gasoline, but when people drive more because they don't have to pay for gas...
War as we knew it was obsolete
Nothing could beat complete denial
- Emily Haines
Don't you have anything like low-volume type approval or Single Vehicle Approval in Canada? They're the more relaxed (eg no crash testing) regulations for low-volume and one-off vehicles in the UK. Not having such laws must be a highly effective way to destroy a car industry before it's even born.
Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
Or convert your S-10 to hybrid, with a system from guys who have been doing EV engines for years...
http://www.go-ev.com/EMIS.html
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
For a lifetime? Are you unwell?
They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
As far as the crumple zones and structure, the vehicle pretty much has that via the epoxy glass laminated foam core. That stuff can take a real pounding and adsorb a lot of force for its weight. Ever check out what a crash helmet is made from? I can tell you its not steel! Crash tests would be necessary to ensure that the proper thickness and shape is used for maximum protection. The lighter weight also is more susceptible to wind and high speed ground effects, but with the proper trim and airflow testing it could be made reasonably safe there too. There is also no reason the vehicle could not have air bags, stability control, and other safety features yet still remain light in weight. It would be high tech and perhaps quite expensive, but very possible. It is likely that any 'production' vehicle will have to have such devices. A kit like this one on the other hand is likely a bad idea for the average experimenter, because they would not opt to add the extra safety gear that would make it equivalent to a normal production car.
what they didn't tell you is you'll have to build 10 of them in order for the NHTSA to crash test your particular version
What's this stigma with hybrid owners being considered smug holier-than-thou sods?
You mean like most Linux users? Or people who light their homes with Compact Fluorescents? Or avoid overpackaged items? Bike to work when possible?
I fit all those categories, but I do them because they seem the right thing to do. Smugness doesn't come into it.
Okay so Hybrid tech doesn't seem quite "there" yet (hell I get 38mpg from my 2.0L station wagon so would expect a lot more from a hybrid), but these are still early days right?
Or is the hybrid what the cell phone/CD player were in the early '90s.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
.
Will anyone insure your work?
When the wheels fall off your little red wagon, what is your legal and financial exposure?
There's a reason that the South Park episode [toolazytolookitup.com] about hybrids causing 'smug' (instead of smog, clever guys) in South Park had people driving cars called 'Pious' (instead of Prius).
My point was that you can register a custom car as a normal car.
If you want the benefits of registering it with a special plate or designation, you can, but in every state you can register a custom car as a normal use street legal vehicle.
Make yer own transistors!
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Then I asked him what his amortized battery cost was and he reckoned it would be approx 15c per mile (cost of battery/battery lifetime in miles).
That's a lot more than it costs me to run a standard diesel SUV.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
I mean, does this self-assembled car pass any government mandated crash tests? Is it actually legal to drive it around?
I don't think he meant the old Beetle
Modding me -1 troll doesn't make me wrong.
The litres of fuel consumed per hundred kilometers are similar between say, the Camry and the Jetta TDI (2009) -- and this is partly due to the fact that diesel has more energy per litre than gasoline. (See wikipedia for a good explanation, if this isn't obvious.) However, the clean diesel has far lower emissions that gasoline hybrid engines in nearly every category, except CO2 -- CO2 tonnes over the life cycle of the vehicle is still expected to be somewhat higher than the hybrid gas. However, in my mind the effects of high amounts of CO are often much more directly felt than CO2. I recently built emissions models for both those vehicles, the results unfortunately on my hard drive at work, not here at my finger tips. Given the low emissions of a modern clean diesel engine, the motivation to go with a hybrid isn't at all clear.
I just can't help to think that one day we might have several hundred of these on our highways... on every other stretch of 25 miles of the highway one in every 7 was put together by some idiot that ALWAYS has a few nuts and bolts left over after the assembly of the car. They do the same with everything else they have ever put together. Slapping a build-it-yourself hybrid car together will be no different.
um... New rule for road maybe is in order?
Do not drive in front of, or behind one of these wanna be cars in your SUV. It could get messy.
Wallah, you have a car that you "didn't make" that you can register as a customized antique/whatever.
Who is this Wallah person to whom you speak?
In my experience, the part that breaks on the one you are using is already broken or worn out on the donor vehicles.
I suspect they design them that way.
Call it trolling if you like: as a Mac fanatic (I've got 4 Macs and an iPhone, my wife has 2 Macs and an iPod) I think of it more as what we call a "joke".
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
Ever heard of this?
When I have a kid, I want to put him in one of those strollers for twins and then run around the mall looking frantic.
V6? IL6 is much better for torque stability and vibrations, and if you are space constrained get a 180 degree defased crank (opposed to the regular 90) 4-cyl and GET A DAMN TURBOCHARGER! Or three!
I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
You did; I'll only respond to this one ;)
I'm not only talking about construction energy for the battery. There's the entire processing cycle for the nickel, which puts a hybrid at a profound disadvantage compared to a diesel from day one.
No, it does not. Just stop and think about this for a second. A new hybrid battery costs about $3k these days. Just assuming that everything else was *free*, and that the *only* cost in making it was was dirt-cheap electricity (i.e., maximizing the amount of energy possibly spent manufacturing it), and that there was *no* profit margin, *no* shipping costs, *no* labor, etc. That'd be about 30,000kWh, or 108 GJ, or about 800 gallons of diesel, or about the energy you can turn to torque from 200 gallons of diesel after losses, which, assuming 38mpg and the average 12,000 miles a year, works out to just over 1 1/2 years of fuel. This is assuming that the *only* costs are electricity, the cheapest form of bulk energy, and ignores that the nickel gets *recovered* by recycling. I mean, the concept doesn't even withstand the laugh test.
I'm also not assuming what you call "reasonable" battery life. I doubt they last more than five years without significant loss of capacity.
Then you doubt reality. NiMH RAV4EVs have been on the road since the late 90s, and they're still working great. Hybrids stress their packs a lot more than EVs (more charge/discharge cycles at a higher rate), and the packs for most hybrids have an 8 or so year warranty. In testing, the automotive variants of li-ions are even more durable than NiMHs. There's this widespread myth that you seem to have fallen for that somehow batteries must inherently die in short order. This is simply false; it's all dependant on the stability of the battery chemistry. Jay Leno owns an early 1900s Baker Electric that still runs on its original nickel-iron batteries.
I'm getting 50-60mpg depending on conditions.
Yeay, a data-free unsupported anecdote!
A) Fuel type is irrelevant for engines that only accept one type of fuel. mpg = miles / gallons. It's how far you can go per gallon of fuel.
If you're an idiot. Who only cares about the *number* of gallons that they burn? Most people care about how much oil they're consuming (15% more in a gallon of diesel), how much CO2 they're emitting (15% more per gallon of diesel burned), how much they're paying (diesel is more expensive per gallon), and so on. Heck, by your argument, we should all buy cars that run on a beryllium slurry, if all you care about is how many miles you go per gallon burned.
B) I also have a lower emissions class than a hybrid.
And you'll be more specific when...?
C) All the mpg figures are in imperial gallons. I'm European, you insensitive clod. km/l would be easier to compare.
Then comparing your numbers to US figures is, as you know, pure BS, as 1 imperial gallon is 1.2 US gallons.
You need to deal with the fact that the revised EPA drivecycle is a tougher drivecycle than the European (NEDC) drivecycle. Our standardized testing actually involves things like air conditioning, aggressive acceleration, higher speeds, etc. Yours does not. Deal with the fact that whatever your subjective experience, your rated vehicle numbers are laxer than our rated vehicle numbers. Whenever a European car makes it to the US, its mileage figures decrease. Example:
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2009 Ford Fiesta ECOnetic -- Estimated at 54 + mpgUS combined on the 08 EPA test cycles.
Cologne - Ford of Europe?s new Fiesta ECOnetic leads the Fiesta models at this year?s Paris Auto Show.
Do you work at Taco Bell? The guy at the drive-through said that to me last night.
On any given ICE vehicle that has inline drivetrains, this isn't an issue. Unfortunately, the Corolla is transverse mounted ICE, which means the engine and drive train sit across the front of your vehicle rather than running down it. To fit a motor between the ICE and tranny would widen the drive train (and front of the car).
Huh?
I would guess, by this writer's ending comments, that the author owns a Ford F150 or an equivalent. I have yet to meet a "smug" hybrid owner. (For the record, I own a Subaru Forester.)
You have to watch out if you do it yourself. I built things powered by electric motors (not cars) and the main problem is that if you need lots of force in an instant, the engine can deliver it (electric motors are very powerful) but the rest of the mechanics might not be able to stand the force or move it that quick and you'll end up twisting or breaking something down the line. A lot of constructions where electric motors power a driveshaft use special gearboxes for that.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com