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PGP Leads Corporate Efforts To Save Bletchley Park

blake182 writes "CNET reports that PGP, together with IBM and other technology firms, is mounting a fundraising effort to benefit the ailing Bletchley Park, home of the Station X codebreaking efforts in World War II. 'We're calling attention (to the fact that) Bletchley is falling into disrepair, and that, probably, the world owes a debt of gratitude to that place,' said Phil Dunkelberger, chief executive of PGP."

35 of 83 comments (clear)

  1. Dunkelberger by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    That's Dunkin' Donuts answer to the Hamburgler, right?

  2. WWII by PunkOfLinux · · Score: 3, Informative

    We owe lots of stuff to lots of things from the second world war. Nice to see corporations like this getting involved; then again, this is part of PGP's history.

    1. Re:WWII by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I agree. IBM were instrumental in the holocaust.

    2. Re:WWII by psychodelicacy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Don't know who modded this offtopic, but they're probably not British. The parent makes a valid point, though perhaps the rhetoric is a little excessive! The fact that Bletchley is neglected while the government spends huge amounts of money on pointless projects (Google "Millennium Dome" for an example) shows a lack of interest in history. Bletchley gives us a welcome chance to celebrate something that shortened the war, rather than the usual glorification of bombs and weaponry. It's a history, maths, science and computing lesson all rolled into one, and the fact that the British government can't be bothered to save it is pretty disgraceful.

      --
      A closed mouth gathers no foot.
    3. Re:WWII by psychodelicacy · · Score: 4, Informative

      I hate to say it, considering the Godwinism, but the parent's right. It's pretty ironic that IBM should be putting in to save Bletchley, when during the war they were directly involved with Nazi Germany.

      "Offtopic" is not the same as "I'm annoyed by this comment"...

      --
      A closed mouth gathers no foot.
    4. Re:WWII by plover · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Perhaps they're still embarrassed by the Alan Turing fiasco, and don't want to ever bring it up again?

      Seriously, there's no reason to ignore this chapter in their history. It was certainly one of Britain's finest, and this from a country that prides themselves on their many fine contributions to history.

      --
      John
    5. Re:WWII by bugeaterr · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Perhaps they're still embarrassed by the Alan Turing fiasco, and don't want to ever bring it up again?

      I think you've nailed it there.
      Bletchly Park was the best British minds triumphing over the the best German minds.
      Why else would they want to bury it, but for shame of Turing's treatment?

      Every time this comes up, I am compelled to recommend The Code Book by Simon Singh.
      It has a gripping account of Turing's life and the cracking of Enigma.

    6. Re:WWII by Candid88 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think the problem is that a lot of people not interested in computer science or cryptography view Bletchly Park as just another one of the thousands of military installations Britain utilised during World War 2.

      The estate itself is relatively unremarkable compared to many in the area and has always had structural problems (it was actually soon to be demolished before war broke out and the code-breakers were stationed there).

      I have been to Bletchly Park and it is a great place, I've heard they even have a full reconstruction of the Colossus computer there now.

  3. How much? by bigtallmofo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I read the Slashdot summary, the entire news.com article, the second article in the news.com article linked from the first article and I still don't know how much they need.

    But at least I know that there's a problem and two separate foundations have turned them down for grant money. I guess that's a start.

    --
    I'm a big tall mofo.
    1. Re:How much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      There's no price-tag because this isn't the sort of thing you buy off a store shelf. The first thing they'll need is a budget to do is a museum-grade architectural survey.

      Have you seen Bletchley Park? It's not just the main building but the remaining temporary WW2 structures.
      http://www.digibarn.com/collections/locations/bletchley-park/bletchlypark-l-lewin/index.html

      The survey can produce a series of restoration & upkeep senarios, based on how much activity & cost can be devoted over what periods of time, and how much each year of delay will add to the costs and losses. Till that (expensive) survey is done, no one can quote remotely realistic figures.

      Another detail: when I was a renovation carpenter it was a firm requirement that any time a project required a wall to be opened, the client MUST have 60% over budget in the bank to deal with unpleasant surprises. Most of the houses I dealt with were less than 100 years old. Even houses built in the 60s regularly had surprise structural problems. About three of those required immediate work that was a good deal more than 60%.

      Getting a complex like Bletchley Park surveyed and a reliable maintenance schedule put in place is going to be a major work in itself. Then the costs and compromises (yes, the sheds will probably have to be let go. or replaced by replicas.) are going to be frankly enormous compared to what the place can draw in revenue. No wonder the usual sources have shied away. A serious influx of cash from special-interest groups as proposed is really the only chance the place has of getting to a (still expensive) maintainable state.

  4. Pretty Good Privacy Corporation by m3j00 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    For some reason that name for a business just cracks me up. Or have they re-tooled the acronym to something like Pervasive Grid Privacy to sound more 'industrial strength'?

    1. Re:Pretty Good Privacy Corporation by MadMidnightBomber · · Score: 2, Interesting

      People will forget the expansion, like for 3M Corp. and SUN.

      --
      "It doesn't cost enough, and it makes too much sense."
  5. Gates Foundation Said No by SlashDotDotDot · · Score: 2, Informative
    According to Wikipedia:

    In May 2008 it was announced that the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation turned down a request for funds because the foundation only funds Internet-based technology projects.

    --
    /...
  6. Ah... The irony of IBM helping Bletchley Park. by Cordath · · Score: 4, Insightful

    IBM was merrily outfitting the Nazis with equipment to help them manage their concentration camps (completely ignorant of their application, naturally) while Bletchley park was breaking Nazi codes. I wouldn't be surprised if, at the time, IBM was viewed as an adversary or, at the very least, completely untrustworthy.

    IBM's future would be built on top of key advances made at Bletchley Park, but they probably didn't know BP even existed at the time. BP, on the other hand, probably wouldn't have pissed on IBM to put out a fire. So the upshot is that, now that BP is irrelevant to IBM's future, IBM is offering aid to them, but back when BP was laying the foundation for IBM's future, IBM was completely oblivious to their existence. On top of that, had IBM known what was going on at BP and tried to invest in their own future, BP wouldn't have *wanted* anything to do with IBM!

    Somebody at IBM really appreciates irony.

    1. Re:Ah... The irony of IBM helping Bletchley Park. by thermian · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And? There was a lot of this going on, not just IBM. Coca Cola invented Fanta so they could continue to sell soft drinks in the European market during the War, Nissan were working with Nazi Germany to build their own V1/2 rockets. There are no doubt more examples.

      Businesses do this, that's because they are businesses, not governments. To be frank, they probably realise that more than a few wars are started for less than honest reasons, and they likely see no reason to stop doing what they do because of it.

      --
      A learning experience is one of those things that say, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' - D. Adams
    2. Re:Ah... The irony of IBM helping Bletchley Park. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 4, Interesting

      IBM was merrily outfitting the Nazis with equipment to help them manage their concentration camps (completely ignorant of their application, naturally) while Bletchley park was breaking Nazi codes.

      It was also manufacturing M1 rifles for the Allies. (Along with such companies as Rockola - the jukebox maker - and Saginaw Steering Gear. It's handy to convert a factory to guns when it already has equipment for drilling holes the long way down several feet of steel rod and other machines for building small and complicated devices composed of mechanical moving parts.)

      (Back when I was buying an old M1 carbine for participating in the Civilian Marksmanship Program training I picked an IBM-branded one just out of nostalgia. The rangemaster was impressed when I qualified with a carbine, rather than a full-length M1, on the first try. Shorter barrels make for less accuracy. B-) But I could have used a Field Engineer: While the steel parts worked fine, the wooden barrel cover kept popping off during recoil. B-( )

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    3. Re:Ah... The irony of IBM helping Bletchley Park. by pjt33 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Nissan were working with Nazi Germany to build their own V1/2 rockets.

      That would be Nissan the Japanese company, based in a country which was allied with Nazi Germany?

    4. Re:Ah... The irony of IBM helping Bletchley Park. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You misunderstand the mentality of little minds :-) :
      In the little mind, IBM=USA=bad. Nissan=Japan=victims of atomic attack by evil U.S.

      Little minds don't comprehend reality or facts, just left wing propaganda. Critical thought has been conditioned out. (Bell rings, college students protest reality.)

    5. Re:Ah... The irony of IBM helping Bletchley Park. by nbert · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Coca Cola invented Fanta so they could continue to sell soft drinks in the European market during the War

      Today when two countries are fighting it is most certain that Coca-Cola is present on both sides. Somehow nobody has a problem with that - it's not common sense that selling soft-drinks to the enemy is going to hurt anyone.

      Nevertheless I agree that IBM's role in WWII is not particularly evil. Hollerith punch cards were on the market since 1928 and were used for all kinds of legitimate administrative purposes. Since the public on both sides fighting was mostly unaware of the holocaust until around '43 (in Germany sometimes even '45) it is not very realistic to assume that IBM was knowing about the purpose of orders from nazi-Germany before the US entered the war. And after the US joined the war they can't be held accountable because the German subsidiary DEHOMAG got expropriated.
      Given the unique efficiency and cruelty of this genocide I even doubt they could have foreseen it.

    6. Re:Ah... The irony of IBM helping Bletchley Park. by Deadstick · · Score: 4, Funny

      Working with their allies? Ruthless bastards...

      rj

    7. Re:Ah... The irony of IBM helping Bletchley Park. by Stormwatch · · Score: 3, Informative

      Coca Cola invented Fanta so they could continue to sell soft drinks in the European market during the War

      Not exactly. The company's german arm, isolated from the american one, invented it to keep the plant in operation during the war, when they could not get the Coca Cola syrup.

      * http://xroads.virginia.edu/~class/coke/coke2.html
      * http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/fanta.asp

    8. Re:Ah... The irony of IBM helping Bletchley Park. by psychodelicacy · · Score: 4, Informative

      I think you underestimate. The book "IBM and the Holocaust" details how the CEO of IBM was closely involved with Nazi Germany, even receiving a medal. These systems were not off the shelf, but custom-built for the Nazis' needs. After the war, when everyone was aware what had happened in the concentration camps, IBM insisted on recovering its profits from the machines used at the camps. They have subsequently refused to apologise for the company's role.

      And just because the allies did nothing to stop the holocaust, that doesn't mean that it wasn't being reported. It was known about, especially at higher levels, but generally ignored.

      --
      A closed mouth gathers no foot.
  7. the big problem by thermian · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why do they have so few visitors? Because the site is presented in what I have to say is a very boring fashion. Yes, I have been there.

    If you know your history, and if you can carry your own commentary round in your head, then it rocks seeing a place that's so important historically, but if not then its not even slightly appealing as a location for a day trip.

    When I was there I saw a lot of extremely bored kids. If they'd added in some enthusiastic guides with a flair for storytelling they would have been able to draw on enough information to keep those kids engaged, but there was only a very sedate and, to be honest, bland, tour on offer.

    I'm not denying that its important to preserve this historical location, but what they really need is to make it more interesting to visitors.

    Historical importance alone is not enough, it has to be fun too if they want to survive as a tourist location.

    --
    A learning experience is one of those things that say, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' - D. Adams
    1. Re:the big problem by expatriot · · Score: 5, Informative

      I went there recently and I really loved it. My wife however was very bored. She found it more interesting however when there were speakers talking about the history.

      I preferred the really techy stuff - particularly seeing electronic commponents that I worked with when I first started making electronic projects. Unfortunately for me (but fortunately for the exibits) you could not touch them. Probably a good thing otherwise I might have been taking the Bombe apart to get a better idea how it worked.

      Perhaps they need different color coded streams:
      Children, young geeks, wives (or non-geek husbands), old farts.

      I hope they get funding sorted. This place is real history. More than almost any castle or birthplace tourist "adventure".

    2. Re:the big problem by DeusExMachinae · · Score: 3, Informative

      I am a crypto buff who happened to be in London last month, and took the train up to visit Bletchley Park, all a-quiver to see the rebuilt Bombe and the Colossus. The park is really just a architecturally-Frankensteined mansion and a collection of "huts" with a few exhibits of crypto equipment and wartime memorabilia. It was bloody fascinating to see all the equipment up close, albeit behind glass. The equipment was simultaneously clever and primitive and bulky. The huts were so rude and tiny! Imagine all those people doing the anxious codebreaking work in such environs back then. I don't want the experience of visiting BP to be Disneyfied, but the cramped, amateurish presentation was a bit of a letdown.

      Bletchley Park is not an amusement park. By that, I mean it is not as casually approachable as carnival rides and cotton candy. You'd have to be interested in some aspect of Bletchley to even seek it out. (BP is more than an hour's train ride outside of London, and the casual London tourist/resident is bombarded with advertisements for a buttload of attractive venues to visit, many of them historically important or beautiful or great fun, or all of the above.) This means the target demographic for BP is going to be relatively small. Unless you are into history or cryptography, you probably would prefer to hang out outside Buckingham Palace with the rest of the tourists and watch the guys with them fuzzy hats march around. (There were thousands of tourists ambling by Buckingham Palace one afternoon, compared to the trickle of visitors to Bletchley.)

      But subject matter aside, I agree with thermian that the exhibits are badly in need of better presentation and preservation. If you have made the effort to visit Bletchley Park, you want to be engaged. There are guided tours, but they seem awfully bland. I wandered around at my own pace with a map and one of those audio tour headset thingys. One hut was packed full of wartime comms equipment from various nations, but without much background or other info to accompany each item. I approached the tiny wizened docent soldering something in the corner and he was semi-informative. Lucky I visited on the one day of the week that this hut was open to visitors.

      However, it looked like they were setting up a new exhibit in one of the other huts, so maybe things are improving.

  8. Use it as location for Indy III and half! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    This way the site will be saved AND we will not see another Indy-against-the-Russians film. Plus, maybe, maybe, it would erase Indy IV from our memory. I would pay for that. A lot.

  9. We can help as well by fyoder · · Score: 5, Informative

    Consider purchasing a pocket enigma, or making a donation (link from their home page or as part of order).

    --
    Loose lips lose spit.
  10. The Independent has a campaign already by mbone · · Score: 4, Informative

    The British newspaper The Independent started a campaign to save Betchley Park on 20 August 2008. I wonder if these are connected ?

    Sounds like a great cause - it should definitely be preserved.

    1. Re:The Independent has a campaign already by Lincolnshire+Poacher · · Score: 2, Informative

      > The British newspaper The Independent started a campaign to save Betchley Park on 20 August 2008.

      On 29 May 2008 a friend started a petition on the Downing Street site to shame the Government into acting to save this element of World history. It is now the sixth largest petition on the site with over 14,000 signatures:

      http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/BletchleyPark/

      If you are a UK citizen please consider taking five minutes to sign the petition. Since it was started we have seen a lot of media interest in this topic and BP report that donations via their web site are increasing.

      Credit to MK News which originally broke this story back in May.

  11. Oh the shame of it .... by Alain+Williams · · Score: 5, Insightful
    as a Brit I feel ashamed that we can let something like this rot. If it had been an arts museum there would have been an outcry in the press, but something technical and the lovies in the media don't understand and their eyes glaze over.

    Little point in asking the govt for funding - they are too busy pouring cash into a 3 week sports festival in 2012 -- a complete waste of money.

  12. Re:So let me get this straight by FridgeFreezer · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Coding & cracking go hand in hand though, unless you can crack codes you can't work out how to make them more secure.

    I'll also add that it's a national disgrace that such an important site can be ignored in favour of arts projects.

    Bletchley Park not only paved the way for computing and helped win WW2 but also helped the telecoms industry in the hands of the Post Office, which became Post Office telephones, which became British Telecom. Thousands of engineers who built the UK's telephone network trained there.

    --
    There is no music - home taping killed it.
  13. Good that they werent next to University of Dayton by sethstorm · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...as they demolished a historical building after railroading about every obstacle in town, and putting some remains in an obscure spot.

    Had Bletchley Park been in the US(and next to the named university), they'd have let a local university just roll the town over and demolish it after buying the land from NCR for $1.

    It's a shame that PGP, IBM, and friends couldn't have come sooner to save NCR's Building 26.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
  14. They also served... by actionbastard · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Who only decrypted Nazi radio traffic. Those people at Bletchley Park who spent untold hours decoding fragments of Nazi radio traffic probably saved hundreds, if not thousands, of Allied lives. To allow such a place to fall into the state of disrepair that Bletchley Park is currently in, is completely disrespectful to the sacrifice that those who served there made.

    --
    Sig this!
  15. Re:There are lots of things worth remembering... by Mike610544 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What constitutes "important" and "worth saving" is a matter of nostalgia and self-aggrandizing for those who engage in it.

    I don't know about "worth saving" but it's hard to overstate how "important" that location is historically. Not only did the work done there have a major effect on the outcome of the war (those U-Boats weren't screwing around,) but they also built a lot of the foundations of computer science and engineering that stand to this day.

    --
    ... also, I can kill you with my brain.
  16. PGP's site is up now by blake182 · · Score: 3, Informative

    The PGP page for the effort wasn't up yet when the CNET story broke, but it is now. More information there.