Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Apple Declares DRM War On Sneaker Hackers

Posted by kdawson on from the your-clothing-can-tell dept.

theodp writes "Nicholas Carr is not pleased that Apple has applied for a patent to extend DRM to tennis shoes and other articles of clothing. Apple apparently views tennis-shoe DRM as a way to head off a potential plague of sneaker hacking. 'Some people,' the patent application observes, 'have taken it upon themselves to remove the sensor from the special pocket of the [iPod-linked] Nike+ shoe and place it at inappropriate locations (shoelaces, for example) or place it on non-Nike+ model shoes.'"

19 of 330 comments (clear)

  1. The realm of what shouldn't be... by Provos · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm not sure which is more ridiculous - the patent application or the fact that there's an iPod link in a shoe.

    --
    I toggled a toggle and buttoned a button, but when I got done, I was done doin' nothin'.
    1. Re:The realm of what shouldn't be... by cgenman · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It's still just a pedometer attached to a descently written application. There is no reason this would necessarily need to take place on an iPod or a Nike^TM brand shoe. This could just as easily be connecting a hip-mounted sensor to your Nokia.

      Further than that, the GPS in the iPhone should make that pretty much obsolete. Heck, use the GPS to detect distance, the built in accelerometer to detect impact, and the built in network connection to upload your data in realtime to a web server tracking your workouts. Suddenly you know exactly how far you went in exactly how many steps, and can compare that to a history of everything you've done at the gym on other machines. Gratuitous shoe tie-in not required.

      I think that's the rub, really. The patent is entirely gratuitous. The only reason that patents like this exists is to prevent other shoe makers from creating compatible shoes, and to prevent other exercise software makers from creating compatible systems. The patent exists only to stifle competition from interacting, as the systems have basically no merit on their own. Apple's own description is that the patent exists to stop legitimate competition. That just doesn't seem like the original intention of the patent system.

      --
      The ______ Agenda
    2. Re:The realm of what shouldn't be... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      While the shoe connects with the iPod to do data acquisition, and you can track your workout on the iPod, you can also share your workout stats with others, help build community, etc - sort of the antithesis of the "isolated runner with headphones on" kind of thing. Very Web 2.0.

      Except for that whole headphones-on-ensuring-no-one-talks-to-you-and-you're-not-as-aware-of-your-surroundings-as-an-average-person thing. I love it how people use new technology to isolate themselves socially from their surroundings and then consider themselves more connected, when whatever communication is usually to people much farther away and about shit of no real importance - no better topics than you could have with an average stranger and much less interesting and thought-provoking exchanges than you could have with a lot of the people around you. I mean I pretend to use my iPhone when crazy homeless guy on the Muni (bus) starts talking to me, but outside of the obviously insane it's kind of sad that an already socially inept country like America is becoming even more socially isolated outside of bars, schools, stadiums, work, and the internet. Pretty soon the Scandinavians will start looking like Brazilians compared to us in terms being socially welcoming.

    3. Re:The realm of what shouldn't be... by stoolpigeon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There are many better solutions than lugging around an iphone while you run. Not to mention the cost of it all.
       
      In fact if anything they are moving in the other direction with cheaper options than requiring a nano. I think Nike is seeing that the real strength of this is in the social networking aspect of their site. Which is a nice platform for advertising all their other running products.
       
      I would wonder if you've even hit on the fact that Apple may be trying to stop Nike from seeking out other partners - rather than just sticking with Apple.

      --
      It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
    4. Re:The realm of what shouldn't be... by BrainInAJar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      no, much as it is a podiatrist rather than a pedotrist.

    5. Re:The realm of what shouldn't be... by davester666 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "Pretty sure the patent app is only to satisfy their branding agreement with Nike."

      Unfortunately, I don't think so, giving the other wacky thing they done. To get video-out, which is an advertised feature of the iPod, you need to buy an adapter. However, Apple changed their implementation from just patching the iPod plug to video-plugs, to requiring a little DRM chip that tells the iPod the cable manufacturer paid an extra fee. So, if you actually want to use the feature that you have already paid for, you have to pay an extra, hidden Apple-tax to do so.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    6. Re:The realm of what shouldn't be... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      No. Expensive gimmicks usually end up collecting dust.

      Actually getting others involved helps a lot. Now whether shoes and an iPod can do this...

    7. Re:The realm of what shouldn't be... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'd be interested in hearing how you've come to know that America is a socially inept country beyond your own observation. If that's all you have, my observations differ.

      It's based on the observations of many people - including American friends living in or visiting South America, reporters, and journalists with extensive knowledge of other countries. It's also based on my own experiences living in various cities throughout the U.S., as well as the experiences of other people who have similarly moved around the country in various locations.

      Obviously experiences vary from place to place and person to person, but that doesn't mean general observations cannot be made or are of little value. For instance, Icelanders are known for being difficult to get to know initially, whereas many South American countries are both social and physically demonstrative even with platonic new acquaintances. America has been around long enough - and with only one in five Americans being first or second generation - that there are general observations to be made about American social interactions and relationships, albeit (again) varying by region, age, individual, etcetera. There is, for instance, the social phenomenon of the Seattle Chill aka Seattle Freeze.

      I don't mean to imply that we're completely inept or that people need to always be social, however things aren't so great for us. Americans are becoming increasingly socially isolated:

      Americansâ(TM) circle of confidants has shrunk dramatically in the past two decades and the number of people who say they have no one with whom to discuss important matters has more than doubled, according to a new study by sociologists at DukeUniversity and the University of Arizona. ...The percentage of people who talk only to family members about important matters increased from about 57 percent to about 80 percent...

      Worse, technology seems only to be exacerbating the problem:

      They found a direct correlation between participants? level of Internet use and their reports of social activity and happiness. As their use of the Internet increased, the participants reported a decrease in the amount of social support they felt and in the number of social activities they were involved in. They also reported being more depressed and lonely.

      Having an occasional good discussion on slashdot is cool, but it is not an adequate substitute for having a close group of friends or face-to-face interaction. While technology can, and in some cases does, help to bring people together - I have a second date tomorrow with a girl I met online who resembles Ally Sheedy in Wargames, but curvier in a very good way - so far it seems like overall it's hurting us more than it's helping us and we were already having problems.

    8. Re:The realm of what shouldn't be... by jddj · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Heck, use the GPS to detect distance, the built in accelerometer to detect impact, and the built in network connection to upload your data in realtime to a web server tracking your workouts. Suddenly you know exactly how far you...

      I hear this kind of stuff all...the...time on Slashdot. This place is such an echo chamber.

      Here's the thing: many of the folks posting this kind of response don't understand the difference between "could" and "did". You "could" do a lot of things. You "could" make something more powerful. You "could" make a better MP3 player than an iPod. You "could" thoroughly instrument the shoe. You "could" create a big strap-on rig that will work on any shoe at all. You "could" do a bunch of stuff. Apple and Nike did make this connection, bring it to fruition and (the hardest part) market it. Whether they got it right and made it do all it could do is really beside the point.

      If you (not you cgenman - I'm using the royal "you") want to get out of Mom's basement and into Steve Jobs' handicapped space at 1 Infinite Loop, you need to understand a couple things:

      1. The iPod is not an MP3 player. (not just "not a very good MP3 player" - it's not an MP3 player). It's an entry point into Apple's service ecosystem, as well as a dongle for their music store. There are many better and more capable MP3 players. The iPod rules not because of the commercials, but because of the ecosystem. The iPod is just the agent, the face on that ecosystem. If you don't get this, you're not ready to play.
      2. To matter, you have to deliver something. You don't have to deliver something perfect, but you have to do something other than describe how someone who has delivered something is doing it all wrong. They're looking back at you and...well...no they're not, they're busy delivering the next thing and not wasting time on people who don't deliver. Hey, I think Mom's gonna make spaghetti tonight!

      FWIW, I think DRM in all its forms is a dumb-ass idea. Makes it too hard for the honest folks, isn't any hindrance to the pirates. It's the wrong approach to use with customers you wanna keep.

      My take on patents: Patents are OK. Dubious patents (plenty of prior art, no "there" there, etc). are not. Software patents probably should not be OK, but I haven't seen a logical test that immediately makes me think "no software patent makes sense". If there's a single patentable example and the laws favor it, you'll have to change the laws to change its patentability.

  2. Beware of those "acting in your best interest" by nathan.fulton · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What is it with evilness generally claiming that they have to protect the stupid halfwits from themselves? Apple's patent app:
    "Since only authorized garments are configured to electronically pair with authenticated sensors, a user (or manufacturer) can be assured that the sensing data received by the sensor is both accurate and consistent with its intended use (a sensor designed for use with running shoes can not properly be used with dance shoes, for example)."

    Dear Corporate World:
    We are not complete tools... we can take care of ourselves. Believe it or not, we know the difference between dancing and running.
    Thanks Much
    -Consumers of the World.

  3. Apple HAS to file this... by SensitiveMale · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Apple knows they can't win this, but they have to establish a track record.

    IIRC, the classic example is that you own a lot of land. Your neighbor parks his dump truck on a part of your land that you don't use and you don't see. After several years, you want to develop that land. Since you allowed his to park there for years he can argue that he has your permission.

  4. Re:Bye-bye Apple by clang_jangle · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've been using a Mac since 1987. I rely on it for professional quality multitrack recording, but now am *very* eager to find FOSS alternatives. I've also been a Linux sysadmin for several years, so I keep trying out various multimedia software and distros when they come out or get updated, (like dyne:bolic, ubustud, ardour, ecasound, etc). Much to my chagrin, I can never get the multitrack recording to work for me in Linux. It seems jackd is always the problem, no matter which soundcard I try (and I've got several I bought because they were listed as "compatible" but they really are not, like M-audio with the envy24 set). I don't know what the hell is up with the jackd devs, but I do know that sooner or later, there will be a satisfactory Linux solution to multitrack recording, and when that happens it's good-bye, Apple. I am so sick of their control freak bullshit, I've not even upgraded my Mac since 2005 (and don't plan to). I'm still using Tiger, and I really hope it's my last Mac OS. I sure do hope we see a release of a functional jackd soon... But either way, this is my last Mac. I will record on it for as long as I have to, but will be switching to my Linux boxen for everything else soon. It's Apple's ridiculous policies that have completely turned me off. I remember when Apple was cool, it's sad really... Maybe if no satisfactory Linux solution comes up soon I'll build me a Hackintosh, just to spite the bastards. But I'd rather just run FOSS.

    --
    Caveat Utilitor
  5. Re:Bye-bye Apple by Lord+Kano · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I was exclusively a Mac user from 1990 through 1997. From 1997 through 2000 I was a three platform user. Windows for games, Mac for art and linux for servers. Steve Jobs' return to Apple crushed the core of the spirit that made me a loyal user. My computer is not a status symbol. It's not a lifestyle choice. It's not a part of my image. It's a tool. When Apple shifted back to the current "Image above all else" mode, I went to Win/Lin PCs. I don't have the time of the money to stroke Steve Jobs' ego.

    LK

    --
    "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
  6. Re:I wish... by Mutio · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Its only sort of hacking, but i had to mention how open Nintendo has been with their DS system. By buying a mod chip you are basically allowed to build any type of program you want, with no opposition. If you need an example simply look at the ds homebrew community that has sprung up, you will find an almost completely open platform ready to be modded.

  7. Re:really? by Zey · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There are tons of fake Nikes coming from Asia that are honestly way worse in quality, durability, and comfort.

    Probably more scary for American companies like Nike: the fakes are often of better quality manufacture, and often considerably.

    I definitely remember back in the 1980s and 1990s the cheapie Bali cassette albums were always far better quality than what the big studios were releasing. They used high quality tape, decent glue and strong cassette cartridges. Meanwhile the big studios used whatever was cheapest in order to inflate their profits that extra bit further.

  8. Re:Oh please by Dhalka226 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have trouble describing this as sensationalist shit, because I can't help but think that this can only be worse than it sounds. DRM on a shoe? Yeah, stupid, okay, but what's the point?

    Let's be realistic. This has nothing to do with the Nike+ or the iPod sensor. If they want to install some DRM in there to prevent me from legally yanking it out and putting in a different brand of shoe or whatever, it has absolutely nothing to do with patents. Anti-circumvention is part of other laws such as the DMCA. If I have some DRM, I don't need to spend thousands of dollars to register a patent in order to legally forbid somebody from circumventing it. Apple is not stupid, they certainly know this.

    So what is the business sense in paying thousands of dollars for something that's completely unnecessary to help you achieve a goal that's stupid to begin with? I can only think of two possibilities: One, that Apple wants to register it first because they think they're going to use this in other situations where it might actually have some effect; where people might actually give a shit more than moral outrage at the idiocy. Or two, that they're hoping somebody else does so that they can beat them with the lawsuit stick.

    Both of these are significantly worse to me than "ZOMG SHOE DRM LULZ!"

  9. Patent nonsense by russotto · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Wow. This thing pretty much hits all the points of non-patentability.

    1) Most of it -- the non-DRM stuff -- isn't at all novel; it has been done before by Apple, even. They're just re-iterating the prior art to bulk out the application. The stuff about analyzing the running style, I've been hearing about being used for athletes for years; commercializing it doesn't make it patentable.

    2) Nor is it non-obvious. The patent (again, aside from the DRM stuff) appears to be trying to cover a specific sort of telemetry. Telemetry has been done for a while -- likely from garments, even, if you consider a spacesuit or a diving suit a garment. Given that you have telemety, it's pretty obvious (here in 2008, or even in 2007) you can process it on a networked computer or receive it on a portable computer. And making that computer a portable multimedia player doesn't make it any different either.

    3) The DRM stuff isn't novel either. Using a physical device to provide authorization and authentication information goes back to antiquity. Using it in computers goes back to the days of "dongles". Using an RFID device to provide authorization and authentication... well, isn't that one of the originally envisioned uses of RFID? Using a hammer to drive in a nail isn't novel, even if the nail itself is.

    4) Not really related to patentability, but it's unlikely to be implemented, at least in the RFID embodiment. Providing enough power to ping passive RFID will kill the sensor's battery. And active RFID is likely to be too expensive and present manufacturing problems, not insurmountable but certainly greater than the "problem" of having people do other things with the sensors.

  10. Re:Oh please by russotto · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What kind of future will it be when even relatively simple electronics come with DRM to prevent 'misuse'?

    A future where embedded software people will have skills which demand a high price on the black market. How much would someone pay to have their Gucci watch work even when they aren't carrying the matching Gucci handbag? To use unapproved attachments on their Dremel tool? To disable that damn "fly-dropping" DRM on the Levi's which happens when you don't wear their partner's underwear?

  11. Re:Not to mention the cost of it all.... by mjwx · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You people should definitely stay away from jobs in marketing.

    If for no other reason than your eternal soul.

    What does that tell you when journalists are fleeing towards marketing jobs because they are more honest then journalism.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.