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Apple Declares DRM War On Sneaker Hackers

Posted by kdawson on from the your-clothing-can-tell dept.

theodp writes "Nicholas Carr is not pleased that Apple has applied for a patent to extend DRM to tennis shoes and other articles of clothing. Apple apparently views tennis-shoe DRM as a way to head off a potential plague of sneaker hacking. 'Some people,' the patent application observes, 'have taken it upon themselves to remove the sensor from the special pocket of the [iPod-linked] Nike+ shoe and place it at inappropriate locations (shoelaces, for example) or place it on non-Nike+ model shoes.'"

40 of 330 comments (clear)

  1. Bizarro world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    God damn it, not another bizarro world. Hope I can slide again soon.

  2. The realm of what shouldn't be... by Provos · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm not sure which is more ridiculous - the patent application or the fact that there's an iPod link in a shoe.

    --
    I toggled a toggle and buttoned a button, but when I got done, I was done doin' nothin'.
    1. Re:The realm of what shouldn't be... by jddj · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, the sensor-in-a-shoe thing is pretty cool.

      Sounds really dumb if you're thinking that your shoe is just talking to your iPod. That's not all that's happening.

      While the shoe connects with the iPod to do data acquisition, and you can track your workout on the iPod, you can also share your workout stats with others, help build community, etc - sort of the antithesis of the "isolated runner with headphones on" kind of thing. Very Web 2.0.

      Something very sad about this kind of crap - it makes it harder to tinker. Would Johnny C. Lee be able to do all of his extremely cool Wiimote hacks? (N.B. - saw Lee's presentation at UXWeek 2008 - "extremely cool" doesn't begin to do the guy's work justice).

      Here's one of the evil shoe hackers Apple's trying to target.

      Honestly, is Apple trying to completely destroy its brand?

    2. Re:The realm of what shouldn't be... by cgenman · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It's still just a pedometer attached to a descently written application. There is no reason this would necessarily need to take place on an iPod or a Nike^TM brand shoe. This could just as easily be connecting a hip-mounted sensor to your Nokia.

      Further than that, the GPS in the iPhone should make that pretty much obsolete. Heck, use the GPS to detect distance, the built in accelerometer to detect impact, and the built in network connection to upload your data in realtime to a web server tracking your workouts. Suddenly you know exactly how far you went in exactly how many steps, and can compare that to a history of everything you've done at the gym on other machines. Gratuitous shoe tie-in not required.

      I think that's the rub, really. The patent is entirely gratuitous. The only reason that patents like this exists is to prevent other shoe makers from creating compatible shoes, and to prevent other exercise software makers from creating compatible systems. The patent exists only to stifle competition from interacting, as the systems have basically no merit on their own. Apple's own description is that the patent exists to stop legitimate competition. That just doesn't seem like the original intention of the patent system.

      --
      The ______ Agenda
    3. Re:The realm of what shouldn't be... by lysergic.acid · · Score: 4, Funny

      that hack seems harmless enough. however, i'm not so sure that Podophile is the best name for a website.

    4. Re:The realm of what shouldn't be... by Kamokazi · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'm sorry, I stopped reading when you used the term Web 2.0 like it meant something.

      --
      As our way of thanking you for your positive contributions to Slashdot, you are eligible to disable Slashdot 2.0.
    5. Re:The realm of what shouldn't be... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      While the shoe connects with the iPod to do data acquisition, and you can track your workout on the iPod, you can also share your workout stats with others, help build community, etc - sort of the antithesis of the "isolated runner with headphones on" kind of thing. Very Web 2.0.

      Except for that whole headphones-on-ensuring-no-one-talks-to-you-and-you're-not-as-aware-of-your-surroundings-as-an-average-person thing. I love it how people use new technology to isolate themselves socially from their surroundings and then consider themselves more connected, when whatever communication is usually to people much farther away and about shit of no real importance - no better topics than you could have with an average stranger and much less interesting and thought-provoking exchanges than you could have with a lot of the people around you. I mean I pretend to use my iPhone when crazy homeless guy on the Muni (bus) starts talking to me, but outside of the obviously insane it's kind of sad that an already socially inept country like America is becoming even more socially isolated outside of bars, schools, stadiums, work, and the internet. Pretty soon the Scandinavians will start looking like Brazilians compared to us in terms being socially welcoming.

    6. Re:The realm of what shouldn't be... by Firehed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I picked one up (though don't own Nike+ shoes, thank you very much). For $30, it's not a bad way at all to keep track of some reasonably accurate running data. Interestingly, I find myself much more inclined to move (and, indeed, move quickly) since buying one. I don't even look at the data, I just feel more inclined to exercise knowing it's being collected. One of those "it'll be good for something eventually" scenarios.

      But if they think they're getting me to spend another $lots on Nike+ approved running shoes, fuck that. I don't care if Nike is subsidizing the cost of the device or if Apple has a contract or if Steve Jobs has a shoosh fetish. The day I give up my Adidas Sambas is the day I lose my feet.

      I don't think Steve's insincerity with the whole "we hate DRM, but the producers make us!" thing was too subtle. He loves control, and the control over the hardware that legally runs OS X is actually helping them as a company. But the fact that they have DRM on most of their music (whether it's their choice or not) means that I buy 100% of my music from other sources, almost always Amazon. While the hardware control helps ensure quality, most of their software is based off of open standards (CalDAV calendar servers, IMAP email, UNIX/BSD running under the hood, etc) and almost all preference settings are stored in plist files, which are XML (rather strangely implemented XML, IMO, but XML nonetheless) and that has absolutely also helped strengthen OS X as a platform.

      For all the control that Steve wants, most of it is against customer wishes these days. Early on people didn't even realize they were buying DRM-infected music from wherever, and they got burned when they bought that new iPod. Of course a lot of people have ended up with music encumbered by a different type of DRM as a result, but they're at least aware of it if not weary. Lots of geeks complain that they can't drag-and-drop music on to iPods without iTunes - it doesn't bother me, but they wouldn't have to lose the iTunes interface in order to add this as an option; nor would it harm them at all to enable more formats to play on the thing (especially open formats like Flac and ogg).

      If they want to give me extra functionality when I buy a nike+ shoe, that's one thing. But if they want to break the thing if I'm not using one, fuck that. I just made the exact same rant a little while ago about DRM in games, and how the successful way to avoid piracy (if one could "pirate" a shoe) is to ADD value for people that DO purchase, not to attempt to remove value from those that don't as it almost always backfires.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    7. Re:The realm of what shouldn't be... by commodoresloat · · Score: 5, Funny

      podophile.com?! But this is about sneakers, which go on feet; wouldn't the proper prefix be...
       
      Oh. Never mind.

    8. Re:The realm of what shouldn't be... by dhaines · · Score: 5, Insightful

      >help build community

      Most times I see "community" these days, especially in a "Web 2.0" context, I think it's a euphemism for gathering personal data for marketing purposes.

    9. Re:The realm of what shouldn't be... by cgenman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not really. As you said, the original intent of the patent system was to encourage inventions and the spreading of knowledge through granting limited time monopolies. In this case, the patent has really nothing to do with inventions, so much as protecting uncreative business implementations from competition and interaction.

      --
      The ______ Agenda
    10. Re:The realm of what shouldn't be... by stoolpigeon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'd be interested in hearing how you've come to know that America is a socially inept country beyond your own observation. If that's all you have, my observations differ. Although, to be fair, I think most statements about America are as much about the rest of the world as they are about the US. This country really hasn't been here all that long and most people I meet still identify on some level with their ancestry - which by and large is made up of immigrants.
       
      Aside from that I'd say that technology does much more to remove isolation than build it up. This conversation I'm having right now is deeper than many I'll have today with people speaking to me in person about weather, sports and gas prices or current events. Not all will be that way, but many. I'm not sure how missing out on a few of those would be detrimental to anyone.
       
      And finally - to be really on topic. When I run I don't want to talk to anyone. I want to listen to music and think. I process things. There is absolutely no reason that every moment of our lives needs to be social. In fact, in order to be of some value socially, I think it is worthwhile to spend a decent amount of time reflecting and thinking - before we speak.

      --
      It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
    11. Re:The realm of what shouldn't be... by davester666 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "Pretty sure the patent app is only to satisfy their branding agreement with Nike."

      Unfortunately, I don't think so, giving the other wacky thing they done. To get video-out, which is an advertised feature of the iPod, you need to buy an adapter. However, Apple changed their implementation from just patching the iPod plug to video-plugs, to requiring a little DRM chip that tells the iPod the cable manufacturer paid an extra fee. So, if you actually want to use the feature that you have already paid for, you have to pay an extra, hidden Apple-tax to do so.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    12. Re:The realm of what shouldn't be... by n+dot+l · · Score: 5, Funny

      however, i'm not so sure that Podophile is the best name for a website.

      Best marketing pitch ever: iPod - so awesome, you'll molest it for hours.

    13. Re:The realm of what shouldn't be... by wellingj · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You mean it's much easier to guilt yourself into doing the something if you buy an expensive gimick and have to justify the purchase?

      --
      Money is the root of all evil?
    14. Re:The realm of what shouldn't be... by bigmacd24 · · Score: 4, Funny

      besides, that was a very pedestrian joke anyway.

    15. Re:The realm of what shouldn't be... by eiapoce · · Score: 5, Informative

      This could just as easily be connecting a hip-mounted sensor to your Nokia.

      Why? It's already integrated into the latest phones... here you go: http://betalabs.nokia.com/blog/2008/05/09/nokia-step-counter-beta-launched-track-how-much-you-walk-or-run-during-the-day/

      And on the plus side being DRM free it works with all the brands of shoes. Don't be afraid it won't work with your Puma or Adidas or Lotto...

    16. Re:The realm of what shouldn't be... by kasperd · · Score: 5, Funny

      used the term Web 2.0 like it meant something.

      Are you trying to tell me Web 2.0 does not mean anything? Then how exactly would you explain why so many web pages are served by hosts called www2.somedomain.tld?

      --

      Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
    17. Re:The realm of what shouldn't be... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'd be interested in hearing how you've come to know that America is a socially inept country beyond your own observation. If that's all you have, my observations differ.

      It's based on the observations of many people - including American friends living in or visiting South America, reporters, and journalists with extensive knowledge of other countries. It's also based on my own experiences living in various cities throughout the U.S., as well as the experiences of other people who have similarly moved around the country in various locations.

      Obviously experiences vary from place to place and person to person, but that doesn't mean general observations cannot be made or are of little value. For instance, Icelanders are known for being difficult to get to know initially, whereas many South American countries are both social and physically demonstrative even with platonic new acquaintances. America has been around long enough - and with only one in five Americans being first or second generation - that there are general observations to be made about American social interactions and relationships, albeit (again) varying by region, age, individual, etcetera. There is, for instance, the social phenomenon of the Seattle Chill aka Seattle Freeze.

      I don't mean to imply that we're completely inept or that people need to always be social, however things aren't so great for us. Americans are becoming increasingly socially isolated:

      Americansâ(TM) circle of confidants has shrunk dramatically in the past two decades and the number of people who say they have no one with whom to discuss important matters has more than doubled, according to a new study by sociologists at DukeUniversity and the University of Arizona. ...The percentage of people who talk only to family members about important matters increased from about 57 percent to about 80 percent...

      Worse, technology seems only to be exacerbating the problem:

      They found a direct correlation between participants? level of Internet use and their reports of social activity and happiness. As their use of the Internet increased, the participants reported a decrease in the amount of social support they felt and in the number of social activities they were involved in. They also reported being more depressed and lonely.

      Having an occasional good discussion on slashdot is cool, but it is not an adequate substitute for having a close group of friends or face-to-face interaction. While technology can, and in some cases does, help to bring people together - I have a second date tomorrow with a girl I met online who resembles Ally Sheedy in Wargames, but curvier in a very good way - so far it seems like overall it's hurting us more than it's helping us and we were already having problems.

  3. In other news.. by Peter+Cooper · · Score: 4, Funny

    The Martin Guitar company is considering whether to file a patent on DRM on its guitar strings - the company notes that "some players" are fitting Martin-manufactured strings to "non-Martin labeled guitars." IT'S AN OUTRAGE!

    Disclaimer: The above is not true - except the outrage bit.

  4. Doesn't Make Sense by stoolpigeon · · Score: 5, Informative

    It is possible to buy the sensor without the shoe. In fact, I had assumed that the sensor never came with the shoe - but that Nike sold shoes that had a built in pocket for the sensor.
     
    I bought a sensor and a nano - but I don't run in Nike shoes. But a few different companies make pouches designed just to hold the sensor, at the laces.
     
    I bought it before the application date on the patent.
     
    I ended up getting a Garmin Forerunner now that they are smaller. Much better as far as accuracy and amount of information. I still run with the Nano for music but not the pedometer. And I'm not positive on this - but I could swear that I saw an ad in Runners World for a nike thing that let you use the sensor without a nano.

    --
    It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
    1. Re:Doesn't Make Sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      And I'm not positive on this - but I could swear that I saw an ad in Runners World for a nike thing that let you use the sensor without a nano.

      Yup, you are correct. It's called the Nike+ Sportband.

  5. Embarassment by Nerdfest · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm not an Apple fan because of their tendency to use proprietary standards, etc, but I can appreciate that they build a good user experience for people that are perhaps not as technically inclined. But I think it's definitely moving towards the point where you (as TFA says) are embarrassed to be an Apple fan. This sort of action is just petty.

  6. Re:really? by globaljustin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think it's more of a counterfeiting thing

    We have laws for counterfeiting. We should enforce those instead of thinking up new redundant laws.

    Problem is, this won't be the last time we hear of DRM being applied places it has no business being applied. The whole concept of DRM is a joke, invented b/c lawmakers were unwilling or unable to draft legislation that properly dealt with online filesharing and piracy.

    --
    Thank you Dave Raggett
  7. There is absolutely no reason for this... by plasmacutter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You can't download an integrated circuit.

    To get the chips, a pair of nikes must be bought, guaranteeing the revenue no matter what the electronics within are use for next.

    I don't see why apple should care. I know I wouldn't give a damn if it were used on another pair of sneakers, modified to play old 8 bit game cartridges, or attached to tomahawk missiles.

    The fact they do care is rather disturbing, as it reflects a general trend toward companies asserting ownership over your stuff. I'm not talking about copyrighted works either, i'm talking about everything.

    They're walking a fine line, installing technologies designed to subvert people's right to modify and use their own devices for their own (sometimes unforseen) purposes.

    You are allowed to sell something any way you wish, but if they sue someone for modifying their own shoes, I expect them to lose, as it's related to physical goods rather than copyrighted material.

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
    1. Re:There is absolutely no reason for this... by Firehed · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And?

      If you bought the sensor, it's yours to use how you want. It doesn't have a EULA, usage terms, or a license agreement (I own one, and I do not use it with Nike shoes). I'll note that the website that you use to view the data probably does have a EULA, so they would be well within their legal rights to block sensor data determined to be from non-Nike shoes (but, like any DRM, it will cause problems for legit customers and backfire). They don't do that, but there's no reason they couldn't for new customers.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
  8. If I paid money for it, it is mine, surely. by mad+zambian · · Score: 5, Insightful

    'Some people,' the patent application observes, 'have taken it upon themselves to remove the sensor from the special pocket of the [iPod-linked] Nike+ shoe and place it at inappropriate locations (shoelaces, for example) or place it on non-Nike+ model shoes.'"

    So?
    As has been observed on Slashdot many times in the past, if I have bought [whatever], I can do whatever the hell I want with it.
    So I feel the urgent need to own a pair of iPod compatible sneakers, and duly buy a pair. I can now;
    Paint them purple.
    Shred them with a razor blade.
    Change the laces.
    Remove a sensor to see what it is and what fun I can have with it.
    Apparently not. Apple seem to think that they have some say on what I can do with my shoes. What are they smoking? DRM'd sneakers. FFS, give me a break.

    --
    Trying to associate Microsoft with "fun" is like trying to associate Satan with aromatherapy. -Tycho
  9. Beware of those "acting in your best interest" by nathan.fulton · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What is it with evilness generally claiming that they have to protect the stupid halfwits from themselves? Apple's patent app:
    "Since only authorized garments are configured to electronically pair with authenticated sensors, a user (or manufacturer) can be assured that the sensing data received by the sensor is both accurate and consistent with its intended use (a sensor designed for use with running shoes can not properly be used with dance shoes, for example)."

    Dear Corporate World:
    We are not complete tools... we can take care of ourselves. Believe it or not, we know the difference between dancing and running.
    Thanks Much
    -Consumers of the World.

  10. Re:really? by HomerJ · · Score: 5, Insightful

    here are tons of fake Nikes coming from Asia that are honestly way worse in quality, durability, and comfort.

    Not to be confused with the REAL Nikes coming from Asia that are bad in quality, durability, and comfort.

  11. DRM war on sneaker hackers? by zblack_eagle · · Score: 5, Funny

    I guess this spells the demise of sneakernet

  12. Re:Soul supplier by PC+and+Sony+Fanboy · · Score: 4, Funny

    True. They're trying to own your sole.

  13. Re:really? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Informative

    The whole concept of DRM is a joke, invented b/c lawmakers were unwilling or unable to draft legislation that properly dealt with online filesharing and piracy.

    I vote unable - because enforcement is impossible. Even the RIAA's highly publicized campaign of sueage currently near the 40,000 suit market is just a drop in the bucket of well over 10million simultaneous users -- only 0.4% at best.

    Of course I don't believe it is the politicians fault, its really the fault of the entertainment business for (a) being run by lawyers (the old every problem looks like a nail when all you have is a hammer situation) and (b) not accepting the obvious and ignoring new business models.

    --
    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  14. Apple-- by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Apple: Still not as bad as Micro$oft. But we're trying. God damn, we are trying.

  15. Did you read the EULA? by wisty · · Score: 4, Funny

    OK, I'd be careful of the whole social networking thing. I'm pretty sure that if you meet a potential spouse through this, the rights on your first born child are forfeit to Apple, Nike, and AT&T.

  16. Re:Oh please by TubeSteak · · Score: 4, Informative

    Sensationalist shit. What will Apple do if you move your sensor to something else? NOTHING. War? What kind of war? All you do is void your warranty.

    You seem to be misunderstanding the fundamental purpose of the proposed DRM.
    You won't void your warranty, because the DRM prevents you from using [device] in any way other than the one intended by the manufacturer.

    What kind of future will it be when even relatively simple electronics come with DRM to prevent 'misuse'?

    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
  17. Re:Bye-bye Apple by Lord+Kano · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I was exclusively a Mac user from 1990 through 1997. From 1997 through 2000 I was a three platform user. Windows for games, Mac for art and linux for servers. Steve Jobs' return to Apple crushed the core of the spirit that made me a loyal user. My computer is not a status symbol. It's not a lifestyle choice. It's not a part of my image. It's a tool. When Apple shifted back to the current "Image above all else" mode, I went to Win/Lin PCs. I don't have the time of the money to stroke Steve Jobs' ego.

    LK

    --
    "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
  18. Totalitarian regime by suck_burners_rice · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well, that's what happens when a totalitarian regime gets into control. They make sure you only use the brands THEY want you to use. Want this phone? Only with that service. Want a shoe with this feature? Only with the brand shoe we tell you. And if you do anything different... lawsuit! I find it amusing that many of /.'s readers recognize this sort of thing (and hate it) when it's done by this company or that, but simultaneously want to vote into government offices people who will implement this sort of thing on a national scale. And I find it even more amusing that they don't recognize that their political opinions are actually exactly the opposite of what they want.

    --
    McCain/Palin '08. Now THAT's hope and change!
  19. Not to mention the cost of it all.... by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Um. The cost is the whole point.

    By spending lots of money you're showing the world how committed you are to your workout regime.

    You people should definitely stay away from jobs in marketing. Your "functional" versions of this product would bomb in the market place.

    --
    No sig today...
    1. Re:Not to mention the cost of it all.... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Funny

      You people should definitely stay away from jobs in marketing.

      If for no other reason than your eternal soul.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  20. NEW: Anti-DRM fanbois!! by mccabem · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'm no DRM fan (not that this story really has anything to do with DRM) but I gotta break in on this little mutual admration society you've got going.

    First, my main bitch is with the blog being pimped. The dude hot-linked the authors image (New Scientist) in the posting. To me, that's bigger news than this Smart Clothing patent. Comedically it looks like the author from NS showed up in comments to give a smackdown.

    Second, if you read the actual article or maybe even the patent app. itself, instead of the POS submission, this is pretty much a lot of hand waving and acronym throwing over nothing.

    They want to make a sensor and clothing combo that can tell if the sensor is in the right place. To me that's pretty simple and even seems patentable compared to a lot of things I've read.

    Last, for this to be "bad", shouldn't this harm the "shoe sensor market" or "smart clothing market' if there even were such things? I don't see how this is going to stop anyone from making other systems or other sensors. Patent licensing is another opening for competition even if someone else produce from Apple's patent.

    Lame story. Now go harass that guy for hot-linking New Scientist's image. It's 2008 for crying out loud! :-)

    -Matt