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Google's Floating Datahaven
PDG writes "Google has pending plans to take its data centers off-shore, literally. By moving their data centers to floating barges in international waters, they are able to save money on taxes and electricity (using wave based power) as well as reside their operations outside the jurisdiction of governments. There is mention of hurricane and other caveats, but I wonder how they plan to get a bandwidth pipe large enough and still be reliable. Seems like a chapter out of a Neal Stephenson novel." You might recall earlier discussions on the same subject.
Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer announces a multi-billion dollar investment in a fleet of submarines.
Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
You see, Neal was born in 2014, he was only allowed to come back in time if he wrote some 'science fiction' novels that would cover up the fact he was a time traveller by just making him look like he made some lucky guesses.
Google satellites of course!
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Pirates.
I hope Google is willing to defend those datacenters by themselves in international waters... it would be a shame if they were sunk !
From the article it's clear that they want to patent the idea.
I don't understand that. What's the use of a patent if somebody infringing it is also in international waters and not bounded to patent law?
I can't wait until they start burying pirated DVDs and stolen WoW cards in the islands on the coast of New England. Just imagine a bunch of digital pirates raiding an off-shore data center. Hilarious.
No, I haven't had my coffee this morning, not yet.)
It's like the Principality of Sealand
It's situated on an old abandoned British island fortress from WWII
Shameless plug alert: Game server control panel
This is a bad dupe at best.
From what I heard was that Google was thinking of putting these in ports as mobile data centers.
Putting them off shore would cause more problems than it would solve.
1. Power. Wave power? Not with a barge. You might get a small part of you power from waves but not a lot.
2. Bandwidth. Fiber is fast everything else is slow. Running a fiber line out to a barge is iffy at best.
3. Weather.
Now if you could put one on say an offshore drilling rig that might work. If you used stranded natural gas for power and sea water for cooling it might make a little sense.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
I suppose that could be offset against energy/cooling costs and ground rent, but ... I'm pretty sure that in terms of square feet, a yacht costs more than an apartment.
Forget taxes. What about when a person is required for maintenance? (For example: ship electrical systems) You will need more manpower as a land-based server farm, but now you have to have living quarters or several fast boats to get your people from the shore to the boat. I bet Google was just patenting this idea for patents sake.
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/09/06/1755216&from=rss
...tomorrow space will become the next place to host their data centers, and then they'll start colonizing worlds and start being referred to as "the company"
-- Sex is the antonym of pringles. Once you pop it's time to stop.
[..] but I wonder how they plan to get a bandwidth pipe large enough and still be reliable.
I don't think a pipe on the bottom of the ocean is your biggest concern when you put hundreds of thousands of computers on a man made island, exposed to possible tsunamis and hurricanes.
And while we're at it, have they thought of the possibility of terrorist attacks? If they're outside any jurisdiction, they also have no military power to protect them from planes, boats, subs and whatnot.
Full Tilt
I have visions of "Google-Stars" orbiting the earth, modelled after the Star Wars Death Stars. These will agther and beam the sum of Earth's knowledge. Plus they will be pollution-free running on abundant solar power above the clouds. Google will have their own private space fleet to service these. Google already leases NASA-Ames to run their private jets, and Sergey will be an experienced Cosmonaut in two years.
This is rather interesting... If they want to make themselves immune from any one nation's laws then they will also be making themselves immune from said nation's protection. Given that, would Google, or a company like it, form alliances and/or some sort of military?
I know this is thinking way ahead, but that prospect opens up a whole new can of worms. IMHO, I think I'd rather have companies answering to governments (depending on the government of course), but that's just me.
Erm, considering that national boundaries extend 12 miles from the mainland, that's hardly international.
America, Home of the Brave.
It would need its own defensive and offensive systems. Basically this floating data center is also a floating target. I could imagine a well placed "torpedo" accidently being discharged and watch the floating gold mine bubble its way down to the depths of the ocean
can be done with rolling seas..
You send something to the sea floor and secure it
the raising of the whole ship based on wave motion can drive a flywheel..... the displacement of the ship generates a LOT of power....
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
if they have any plans to deal with corrosive salts from the oceans?
They're breeding a dolphin/deer hybrid to swim around the facility and lick off the salt.
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
Either that or Google plans on hiring mercenaries...er wait.... private contractors for protection. International waters, they could have their own navy if they wanted.
as 'outside government jurisdiction'. A ship HAS to be registered and carry the flag of SOME nation, and it will be subject to the laws of that country. So a ship is no more or less outside the law than if you built your data center in that country.
Supposing someone has a ship which is NOT registered anywhere, then it is essentially 'fair game'. If say the US didn't like what you're doing they can just sail on up and do whatever they want with you. They could certainly board and seize any such vessel, after all who's going to object? In theory there might be some construction of maritime law that provides some protections, but without a government capable of objecting you're basically SOL.
So, there would be no consideration on Google's part of evasion of law. Possibly a way to choose a regulatory regime you like, but that's about it. Plus remember any large corporation is pretty much held hostage to its investors, insurance requirements, financing, and ultimately to whatever nations it has substantial business interests in.
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -- Jefferson
I would assume that it would be the same way ships handle this to cool engines. Its essentially a two or three stage system, with either pure water or a glycol mix on the second stage. This limits your corrosion to short lengths of pipe. The ship i was on used impressed current cathodic protection. Contrary to what you would expect, we never had any electrical problems. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathodic_protection
Slashdot needs to re-run the "Most Frequently Pirated" Poll, adding this Data-Barge to the list.
But several countries (Brazil and USA to name 2 cases) required Google to give their user's data to government agencias, or to censor content to comply with local laws.
"Don't be evil" looks like an ok policy. But following law is good or evil? and what if that law (or at least the people behind it) is evil?
1) What country will they be flagged under?
2) Will the international community hold that country accountable if the Good Ship GooglePlex starts doing things that are "evil" in the eyes of a more powerful country?
Seriously, if they fly under the flag of a small country, what's to stop China from threatening the small country if Google tries to actively evade the Great Firewall? What's to stop the US Government from threatening sanctions if Google stops cooperating with Washington?
On the other hand, if it flies under the flag of a country that's too big to sanction, then it's still at the mercy of that country's government.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Follow the law is neither good or evil. It's being lawful, which is the opposite of chaotic. That being said, as long as you're not a paladin, you don't have to worry about laws that aren't good.
"Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
Google has pending plans...
Nonsense. Google has a patent application. Which means that someone, somewhere, inside Google had this nifty idea, and a patent search thought it might be original. In corporations these days, the standing instructions are that if an idea is patentable, patent it - even if it is stupid or appears unworkable. This idea may be no more than bullshit round the water cooler.
Corporations want to build up a big patent portfolio. Financial types see that as good, which ups the stock price. And they want lots of patents in their pocket for when you get to a patent shoot-out (or to be so dangerous that one is pre-empted. The idea is that when someone accuses you of infringing a patent, you dump a huge pile of patents on the table and say "I bet you're infringing one of these".
So this article is a massive hype from a straw in the wind. Google is always thinking about datacentres, and this is a patent on an original, if not vary practical, thought.
Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
So will Google have to have armed guards to shoot pirates? Is killing people to protect your servers considered "evil" ?
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
I guess BlackWATER would be up to the task ;)
If a company can truly do this, I bet it's been done before. (Waiting for examples.)
East India Company
See "HTTP status codes": http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec10.html
No sig today...
Everyone laughs, but that doesn't change reality. Reality is that when you have a huge corporation with most of its assets tied up in advanced technology, then you have to pay to keep it protected.
If you move the technology off-shore to avoid taxes, then you lose the protection that those taxes provide. Both from criminals and from the police that are being paid by the taxes that your land-based operations incur. Does Google plan to hire Blackwater (the world's largest mercenary army) to keep people away from their floating data centers?
There is also the question of getting the money to build these floating structures. As I write on Monday morning Sept 15 2008, the banking structure of the USA is collapsing. The stock market is falling and several of the largest banks of the USA have declared bankruptcy. No banks means no capital for expansion. Granted this isn't such a big issue when Google has such a large stock value, but that stock value is mostly based on speculation and Google's price could fall as fast as it rose.
There is also the question of scale. One can claim that a huge data center could be powered by wave energy; it's another thing to actually do it. Especially when you are a public corporation and have to answer to entities that hold huge blocks of your stock.
Google is a company with an oversupply of young over-educated technological Grade-Point Angels (people whose most singular talent is to convince their teachers to give them high grades in order that the teachers will be able to reflect in their angel's glory). These people have a tendency to actually believe their fantasies, especially the fantasies that involve both ecology and advanced technology.
This factor has to be considered in all of their press releases and corporate projections.
They only have to go 12 miles, line of site. So say they go 20 for good measure. There are plenty of very high bandwidt solutions for that. Or they can run fiber. Of course whatever country their trunk lies in might have more than a wee bit of leverage with regard to how they conduct business and to whom taxes are paid.
So, Scientologists then?
How will the prepare our feeble wog minds for the attacks?
Tom Cruise in Mission Inaccessible?
Katie Holmes in Batman: Wrath of the Pinguin?
Seinfeld asking us "What's the deal with data?"?
The good news: You get quoted in the London Times, and they include a link to your web site. Sweet!
The bad news: They use the UK spelling ("data centre") in the link, and don't notice the 404s.
Worse news: The Times story get Slashdotted, and all those readers can't find your site.
Live and learn. Now we own datacentreknowledge.com as well. If anyone was actually looking, our link is below.
RichM
Data Center Knowledge
Why doesn't Google just buy Sealand?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand
---- "Logoff! That cookie shit makes me nervous!" - A. Soprano
"Or property" is usually specified because people don't necessarily alwys want to kill you, they just want your stuff. They're usually still threatening you to get it, though.
If they're unarmed and not threatening you, like an unarmed burglar, you just point a gun at'em and call the police. Unless you're Texan, in which case they're so very dead.
Best job EVAR
First, some URLs:
Long range acoustic device
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_range_acoustic_device
Ship Blasted Pirates With Sonic Weapon
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8DNUV2G3&show_article=1
Sonic Weapons Ward Off Pirate Attack
http://realmwaverider.blogspot.com/2005/11/sonic-weapons-ward-off-pirate-attack.html
Does LRAD Work?
http://maritimeaccident.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/does-lrad-work/
Cruise Lines Turn to LRAD
http://www.marinelink.com/Story/Cruise+Lines+Turn+to++LRAD-200811.html
This is almost a Security Theatre/Boondoggle Exercise all over again.
Any pirates wanting a particular ship, or even a random one that is known to be equipped with sonic blasters, but not protected by specially-trained anti-piracy personne with long-range weaponry will only need to fire RPGs, or laser-guided weapons, or use sniper rifles with HE/AP shells to take out the expensive, lone sonic mount. Even a frag blast *near* it may send it off-kilter.
To pull this off is a no-brainer. Typically, pirates already send one to 3 boats ahead of the target lying wait in the dark. They already would have paid out (dispensed) a line rigged between them as they separated sufficiently to ensnare the target. The target craft/vessel encounters the line, and forging ahead, draws the pirates in closer. They pirates use suction cups or grappling hooks, or some combination thereof and scale the hull.
Now, using sniper rifles with NVG-enhancement type equipment, a few well-placed sniper-fired rounds from one or more craft can take out the LRAD mounts -- unless so many multiples (fakes) are emplaced so as to cause the pirates to fire enough rounds do betray their location. Smart LRAD emplacements will have gear to detect and localize the source of incoming fire and train the operational/real LRAD to that bearing and elevation and dwell on the target. But, in congested areas, like the Strait of Malacca, using the LRAD can quickly become illegal if locals are sickened, ship-wrecked or otherwise harmed.
For a more recent article (but not one containing countermeasures such as mine, which anyone with half a brain can adduce/deduct/produce/educe in 45 seconds), see:
Maritime Reporter & Engineering News (www.marinelink.com) August 2008
If you are a sailor/yacht operator, you've probably already read:
"The New Piracy"
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v25/n24/glas01_.html
"Dangerous Waters: Modern Piracy and Terror on the High Seas", By John Burnette (I bought my copy in 2003)
http://www.amazon.com/Dangerous-Waters-Modern-Piracy-Terror/dp/0452284139
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
That's right cripple him so he can sue you in court. You saved your family, but your children's college fund is now empty and your house was foreclosed by the court.
Being dead is less expensive than being crippled. Getting sued by family members is less severe than getting sued by a quadriplegic in a wheel chair. Even a guy who has to have his two crushed testicles removed can be a major liability. In many places with bad courts (California) they figure since no amount of money will replace the function of testicles they might as well just take all your money and give it to the criminal.
If you ignore the morality of the situation and focus on the legal aspects, it makes no sense to shoot someone's kneecaps or punch him in the throat.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Someone wants to steal from you, harm you or something like that? Stop him. That doesn't mean "use deadly force". Try to talk to the guy in order to reduce the tension. That doesn't work? Just shoot his legs, punch him in the throat, kick him in the testicles or use any other non-deadly ways of -STOPPING- him.
Very, very bad advice.
The first part is good: If you can defuse the situation verbally, great. If that doesn't work, though, and the only way you can stop it is by resorting to violence, your suggestions are all bad, in the average case.
IF you're very sure that you can take him in hand-to-hand combat, then that's a reasonable approach. How do you know that you can, though? Unless you're a martial arts expert, there's always the possibility that he knows more about fighting than you do, which will result in your stuff being gone AND getting beat up. Maybe beat to death, depending on what sort of fellow he is.
Shooting the legs is never a good idea. If you draw and fire a gun, you're employing deadly force, whether you intend him to die or not, and whether you hit or not. If you're not legally and morally justified in escalating to deadly force, DON'T. Let him take your stuff. If you are justified, then don't mess around shooting at legs because (a) you'll miss, (b) your bullet may hit someone ELSE, (c) if he has a gun he's going to draw and start shooting back, and you just gave away a tactical advantage, (d) if you don't miss, he may still die (there are some big blood vessels in the legs) and (e) even if he doesn't die, you may still face attempted homicide charges.
For many of the same reasons, warning shots are a bad idea, and even making threats with a deadly weapon is usually a bad idea.
Try to avoid ever getting into a situation where you have to use deadly force, but if you end up in one, where if you don't someone will be seriously hurt, or will die, then don't screw around with half measures. In that situation, your goal is to cause repeated major trauma to vital organs until the threat is stopped.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
Once upon a time there was a family of economists.
This included Rose Friedman, her brother what's his name, her husband Milton Friedman, their kids David and Susan, and David's kid Patri Freidman.
The general theme of their work is that economies spontaneously organize, instead of being created and managed by governments or god.
Milton won the Nobel Prize, David wrote the groundbreaking "The machinery of freedom",and Patri, well Patri's thing is seasteading.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasteading
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patri_Friedman
Until quite recently, Patri worked for google.