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Google Goofs On Firefox's Anti-Phishing List

Stephen writes "While phishing is a problem, giving one company the power to block any site that it wishes at the browser level never seemed like a good idea. Today Google blocked a host of legitimate web sites by listing mine.nu. mine.nu is available as a dynamic dns domain and anybody can claim a sub domain. All sub-domains are blocked regardless of whether phishing actually occurs on the sub-domain or not. Several Linux enthusiast sites are caught up in the net including Hostfile Ad Blocking and Berry Linux Bootable CD."

168 comments

  1. Good idea? by grasshoppa · · Score: 5, Interesting

    While phishing is a problem, giving one company the power to block any site that it wishes at the browser level never seemed like a good idea

    Actually, giving a single company this kind of authority is usually not a bad idea. Spamhaus and email, for example.

    The issue is about trust. Even with this goofup, I trust google ( although their response to this could change that ). Hell, I trust MS here too, to a limited extent.

    --
    Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
    1. Re:Good idea? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Actually, giving a single company this kind of authority is usually not a bad idea. Spamhaus and email, for example.

      I respectfully disagree. Giving a single, unaccountable group the effective power to completely kill some domain's e-mail is a bad idea, too. It's far too easy to game any one blacklist, and it's far too hard to get a domain that was added incorrectly (or that has been taken over by someone new who has no connection to the previous registrant) removed from the list again. I don't believe any sysadmin worth their salt filters based only on input from a single blacklist.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    2. Re:Good idea? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I won't trust MS. In their IM client they block *.sytes.net and *download.php, and they have been doing it for a year. Why will this be different?

    3. Re:Good idea? by satmd · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and spamhaus is a good example how to do things. But in reality, spamhaus has listed innocent hosts in the past AND wants a fee to delist them regardless the ban was unreasoned in the first place. Way to go.

    4. Re:Good idea? by RaceProUK · · Score: 1

      It gets worse: MS outsource the anti-phishing blacklist maintenance.

      --
      No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
    5. Re:Good idea? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While phishing is a problem, giving one company the power to block any site that it wishes at the browser level never seemed like a good idea

      Actually, giving a single company this kind of authority is usually not a bad idea. Spamhaus and email, for example.

      The issue is about trust. Even with this goofup, I trust google ( although their response to this could change that ). Hell, I trust MS here too, to a limited extent.

      I have a couple of forums running on .mine.nu subdomains and am not happy with this move. It's making more and more people use Microsoft Internet Explorer.

    6. Re:Good idea? by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      WTF? Spamhaus doesn't charge a fee, you may be thinking of SORBS (which is widely known to be a scam racket)

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    7. Re:Good idea? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you trust Google wholeheartedly (I assume), but only MS to "a limited extent"? Both these companies have the same goal, neither is angelic nor satanic (despite what slashdotters like to pretendt), and furthrmore, MS has shown itself to be much more competent in these matters. They had their anti-phishing in place before Google and never had an incident like this. They've had hotmail for years longer than Google has had gmail, but haven't had an incident of mass unrecoverable deletions of email accounts and/or deletion of all email within accounts, while Google has had multiple incidents of such wrt gmail. Google has been willing to turn over customer info to governments without a warrent. Google has allowed its customer info to be hacked multiple times (e.g. credit cards used on Google checkout and the like), much more than has Microsoft.

      I don't see why Google gets a free pass on these things.

      I'll tell you why I trust Microsoft more than Google. Microsoft's motive is to make money, and they make no pretense otherwise. They have a motive I can fully understand and trust in that they know that screw-ups regarding privacy and blocking sites would be counterproductive to that motive. Google, on the other hand, puts out this bullshit about "no evil", which I know is false, so right off the bat they're lying to my face about their motive and their behaviour. If they're lying about that, what's to prevent them lying about privacy and the like? And that self-righteous stance even gives them some cover to hide behind as they do whatever they please or screw up however badly (and it works, because slashdotters allow Google to get away with murder, either based on malice or incompetence).

      I'll trust the one who acknowledges he's out to make money over the one that claims to be doing God's will while lying to my face about it.

    8. Re:Good idea? by stry_cat · · Score: 1

      Actually, giving a single company this kind of authority is usually not a bad idea. Spamhaus and email, for example.

      Here's a suggestion that might help you in future debates. If you're going to provide an example to support your argument, it shouldn't be one that proves the other side's point. Spamhaus and all email blacklists are a bunch of power hungry nerds and should never be used. Giving any single organization that much control over your Internet is just setting your self up to be abused.

    9. Re:Good idea? by SenseiLeNoir · · Score: 1

      I won't trust MS. In their IM client they block *.sytes.net and *download.php, and they have been doing it for a year. Why will this be different?

      because maybe, just maybe, those are the two most common vectors for virus/scamware/etc

      --
      Have a nice day!
  2. Misleading desciption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "...giving one company the power to block any site that it wishes at the browser level never seemed like a good idea."

    How exactly would assigning maintenance of anti-phishing lists to different organizations avoid a problem like this?

    Isn't the implication that Google is intentionally blocking these innocuous subdomains (which share the same domain as phishing sites) just a tad disingenuous?

    1. Re:Misleading desciption by caramelcarrot · · Score: 1

      It's not just Google, MSN has been blocking my mine.nu address for ages. In order to send it to people I have to stick a space in. Unless Microsoft and Google use similar lists? Also, I noticed this today as I tried to work out why a website hosted locally was refusing to load javascript - turns out that the file was referenced by my mine.nu address and firefox was blocking it.

    2. Re:Misleading desciption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      If you had different organizations, and a final list decided on majority, then it would be impossible for one single company to intentionally block anything.

    3. Re:Misleading desciption by HobophobE · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Having a distributed system where individuals are responsible for rating resources (other individuals, websites, basically _anything_ with a unique ID or URI) would go a long way not just to combat phishing and malware, but other sorts of scams, trolls, etc. I call that system a "reputation system."

      We need a system where I can rate a site as vapid (ie, experts-exchange is a waste of my time in search results) and then people who choose to subscribe to my ratings will see those sites may not be worth their time.

      The key is to make it extensible such that it can encompass the internet at large and even things in real life like menu items in restaurants.

      It's one thing to get feedback about something from one or a handful of people. It is more valuable to have a large graph of opinions which you can prune at will to give you the best information available.

      --

      -HobophobE
      Nothing laughs forever.
    4. Re:Misleading desciption by something_wicked_thi · · Score: 1

      And quite likely impossible for all the companies to block anything, too. Let's please stick to realistic solutions. The only companies that are going to run a site like this are Google, Yahoo, and MS. Browsers can query all three, but the most likely thing they're going to do is block something if any of the three calls it malicious.

      Plus, if someone actually suggested doing that, I'd bet you'd be in here claiming it's a privacy violation faster than Bush can contradict himself. After all, you'd be sending your browsing history to three times as many satanic search organizations.

      Yes, Google screwed up. I'm sure they'll fix it. Get over it. It's not the end of the world. In fact, it's still better than what you suggest, even with a false positive every so often.

    5. Re:Misleading desciption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The system you are looking for is called PICS, and has been in IE since 1996. Feel free to start using it!

      It allows you to define arbitrary rating scales (e.g. sex, nudity, violence, vapidity, phishingness, or evilness), then create your own ratings for any particular page. A person then just has to set their browser to subscribe to your rating service and define what rules they want for restriction (e.g. block any site more vapid than expert-sexchange.com).

      dom

  3. I'm not sure how this is a goof by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's presume that I used my domain to provide subdomains for free. Lets also presume that I or one of my free subdomains did some phishing. It's not out of the ordinary for a network administrator to ban an entire domain to help secure his network. Do you know how much work it would be to go through a site with tons of subdomains to cherry pick which ones are malicious and which ones are not? What if the admin can't even get a list of the subdomains? What if the site has 10k subdomains? It's easier (and usually safer) to "deny all, allow some" than to spend your entire day finding every malicious website and blocking it by hand.

    Then, someone can come along who is a user of the network with the blacklist and complain to the network administrator. The administrator can fix the problem by unbanning a specific subdomain if they choose to.

    Isn't this just general network administration? I see it as a non story.

    1. Re:I'm not sure how this is a goof by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      It's only an issue because of the scale of the problem. There's a difference between administration of an internal corporate or personal network, and something that affects untold millions of users worldwide. If Google's anti-phishing efforts begin to accrue too much collateral damage, then one will need to reconsider how practical it is. The same applies to real-time black-hole lists for email for that matter: some of them get too damned aggressive as well.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    2. Re:I'm not sure how this is a goof by caramelcarrot · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Presumably if Google thinks some subdomains are malicious, they actually know which ones are in fact malicious? Owing to the fact that they found them in the first place? I'm wondering if the reason they just blocked the entire domain was because some attackers are just registering lots of subdomains as a fast-flux method.

    3. Re:I'm not sure how this is a goof by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "It's not out of the ordinary for a network administrator to ban an entire domain to help secure his network."

      Yes. I think this has a lot to do with Sturgeon's law: network administrators are not an exception for the 90% law.

    4. Re:I'm not sure how this is a goof by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Some years back "general network administration" made it impossible for me to see mail that came from Asia. That caused huge problems for me. The fuckwit that did this made the same argument you just did. If you are going to accept that sort of power you should learn the maxim "first, do no harm."

    5. Re:I'm not sure how this is a goof by silanea · · Score: 1

      Why was this modded down? "Do no harm" actually is the first thing we teach our fledgling admins.

      That something is "not out of the ordinary" does not automatically mean it isn't utter bollocks. Indiscriminate blocks are stupid in most cases. If a domain didn't cause trouble, it shouldn't be added to such a generic blacklist. That's just as stupid as blocking dynamic IPs from sending mail - the problem does not lie in the IP but in the mail, so the answer is to fix the mail system.

      --
      Rudolf Hess edited Mein Kampf. He was the very first grammar nazi.
    6. Re:I'm not sure how this is a goof by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Exactly. If blocking and accepting collateral damage is to be your policy, where do you stop? Blocking whole countries? Whole ISPs? Filtering all content using protocols like Usenet or BitTorrent because some of it is probably inappropriate?

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    7. Re:I'm not sure how this is a goof by HJED · · Score: 1

      Hotmaill did start rejecting all mail from the ISP I use (a very big one in AU).
      but they have stooped now

      --
      null
    8. Re:I'm not sure how this is a goof by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      IME, Hotmail seems to reject almost all mail from anyone who isn't already whitelisted. Certainly every local group where I help with the IT and my own personal e-mails all get rejected by default, and the sources for those span a whole range of different ISPs and domains.

      In some organisations I help, we became so bored of explaining to people with Hotmail accounts that we did send the information they asked for and it's probably in their junk e-mail store that we simply adopted a policy that if someone is stupid enough to use a mail host like Hotmail, that was their problem. We also redirect incoming mail to /dev/null if it tries to tell us we should adopt whatever non-standard, half-baked domain authentication standard the sender's personal ISP is stupid enough to filter on.

      I used to feel bad about this: after all, I volunteer to help these organisations, which in turn provide various information to others, for the benefit of the community. It's a shame that some people in that community now lose out. I don't feel so bad these days, though: I just consider services like Hotmail to be broken, and choose to spend my volunteered, uncompensated time on helping those who don't make it difficult for me to do so.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    9. Re:I'm not sure how this is a goof by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      IOW, you do basically the same thing Hotmail does.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    10. Re:I'm not sure how this is a goof by conlaw · · Score: 1

      I remember when we used to automatically block anything coming from Hotmail. Must be showing my age!

    11. Re:I'm not sure how this is a goof by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Well, what we do is closer to blacklisting than whitelisting, it's manual and based on a specific problem for us rather than automatic and based on some arbitrary criteria set by someone else, and if Hotmail get their act together then our systems will happily play nicely with theirs without anyone changing anything on our end. But apart from being completely different, sure, it's basically the same.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  4. Get a real domain then. by Restil · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Granted, I can see there are opportunities for abuse here, but if the owners of dynamic dns domains don't properly police their "customers" and spammers and/or other malicious websites start using it, then Google has every right to blacklist the entire domain. Of course, it's arguable exactly how much can be done to prevent it, but if you're really concerned about not getting your site blocked, go ahead and blow the $7 a year on your own domain, or use a smaller ddns service that can actually pay attention to the nature of the hosts it's serving.

    As far as having any one third party responsible for maintaining a blacklist, exactly how else do you intend to do it? You can always create your own blacklist, but that would first require you to "enjoy" the sites you would prefer get blocked automatically. You'll just have to trust someone to make that reasonable decision for you. Sure, there will be some mistakes, but that's the price you pay for protection.

    -Restil

    --
    Play with my webcams and lights here
    1. Re:Get a real domain then. by ccguy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Granted, I can see there are opportunities for abuse here, but if the owners of dynamic dns domains don't properly police their "customers" and spammers and/or other malicious websites start using it, then Google has every right to blacklist the entire domain.

      Countries have been banned from sites, email, IRC channels and so on with this argument.

      Just so you know, some ISPs have defacto monopolies in their countries, and everyone there get the same domain. Any idiot that say 'let ban *.il, or *.es, because I got 10 spam messages from there' should be fired on the spot.

      In fact, if he works at google whoever hired him should be fired, too.

    2. Re:Get a real domain then. by caluml · · Score: 4, Informative
      Sorry dude. I block whole netblocks that I/we don't have any business with, and that fill up my logs with annoying connection attempts, and portscans, etc. I'll show you my method for blocking about 80% of probes, scans, password guessing bots, etc:

      # wget -o /dev/null -O - http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space/ | grep whois.apnic.net | grep ALLOCATED | cut -d " " -f 1 | xargs
      # need to add in .0.0.0 though
      for asia in 58.0.0.0/8 59.0.0.0/8 60.0.0.0/8 61.0.0.0/8 112.0.0.0/8 113.0.0.0/8 114.0.0.0/8 115.0.0.0/8 116.0.0.0/8 117.0.0.0/8 118.0.0.0/8 119.0.0.0/8 120.0.0.0/8 121.0.0.0/8 122.0.0.0/8 123.0.0.0/8 124.0.0.0/8 125.0.0.0/8 126.0.0.0/8 202.0.0.0/8 203.0.0.0/8 210.0.0.0/8 211.0.0.0/8 218.0.0.0/8 219.0.0.0/8 220.0.0.0/8 221.0.0.0/8 222.0.0.0/8
      do
      $fw -A INPUT -s $asia -j DROP
      done

      I don't get why you are getting annoyed that I (and probably many others) do things like this?

    3. Re:Get a real domain then. by ccguy · · Score: 1

      I block whole netblocks that I/we don't have any business with,

      Until you happen to admin a major mail provider I couldn't care less.

    4. Re:Get a real domain then. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would you recommend a subdomain issued by a reputable registry like Verisign or would you go straight for a domain issued by the root registry?

    5. Re:Get a real domain then. by Anpheus · · Score: 1

      And when he does admin a major mail provider, I'd like to sign up.

    6. Re:Get a real domain then. by AmberBlackCat · · Score: 1

      Google links to an enormous number of malicious sites. Should they be blocked in all web browsers for failing to police all of the sites they point people to? Can we really trust their competence in this situation if they just copy and paste sites into the block list (not to mention copying and pasting EULA's) without actually looking at what they're blocking? How do we know they don't just look at certain top level domains and assume nothing of value would come from that area?

    7. Re:Get a real domain then. by novakreo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sorry dude. I block whole netblocks that I/we don't have any business with, and that fill up my logs with annoying connection attempts, and portscans, etc. I'll show you my method for blocking about 80% of probes, scans, password guessing bots, etc:

      # wget -o /dev/null -O - http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space/ | grep whois.apnic.net | grep ALLOCATED | cut -d " " -f 1 | xargs # need to add in .0.0.0 though for asia in 58.0.0.0/8 59.0.0.0/8 60.0.0.0/8 61.0.0.0/8 112.0.0.0/8 113.0.0.0/8 114.0.0.0/8 115.0.0.0/8 116.0.0.0/8 117.0.0.0/8 118.0.0.0/8 119.0.0.0/8 120.0.0.0/8 121.0.0.0/8 122.0.0.0/8 123.0.0.0/8 124.0.0.0/8 125.0.0.0/8 126.0.0.0/8 202.0.0.0/8 203.0.0.0/8 210.0.0.0/8 211.0.0.0/8 218.0.0.0/8 219.0.0.0/8 220.0.0.0/8 221.0.0.0/8 222.0.0.0/8 do $fw -A INPUT -s $asia -j DROP done

      I don't get why you are getting annoyed that I (and probably many others) do things like this?

      Your rule blocks most Australian IP addresses, for starters.

      --
      O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!
    8. Re:Get a real domain then. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Massively arrogant.

      For a start, you are assuming nobody in the asia pacific region will need to contact you to report abuse. I have experienced this before, when so-called competent administrators have been hosting malware or phishing scams, and I have had to use Gmail accounts to contact them.

      Also - I should point out to ALL the ignorant administrators doing this, APNIC is not just Asia, it is Asia Pacific, including Australia and New Zealand.

      Come back when you administer a real network moron.

    9. Re:Get a real domain then. by Mhtsos · · Score: 1

      I confess my geek-fu is not strong enough to understand what he does, can someone shed some light for the networksavvy-impared?

    10. Re:Get a real domain then. by shabble · · Score: 2, Informative

      I confess my geek-fu is not strong enough to understand what he does, can someone shed some light for the networksavvy-impared?

      Well...

      wget -o /dev/null -O - http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space/

      He's asking IANA for the netblocks... (click the link to see what does get returned)

      grep whois.apnic.net

      administerd by APNIC (Asia-Pacific)

      grep ALLOCATED

      currently in use (not legacy ones)

      cut -d " " -f 1

      culling everything from each line except the IP/mask (the first item)

      xargs

      and strips the carriage returns to generate a list of IP blocks in the AP region.

      # need to add in .0.0.0 though

      Of course he has to manually add in the .0.0.0 for each block for the next to work

      for asia in 58.0.0.0/8 59.0.0.0/8
      do
      $fw -A INPUT -s $asia -j DROP
      done

      He then sets up his firewall to instantly drop any packets coming from any of those IP blocks so he can't hear them.

      It's a bit sledgehammer/nut IMO.

    11. Re:Get a real domain then. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just so you know, im in asia. I have an ip in the 58.0.0.0 block and I read slashdot, hate spam, hate stupid hacks, hate worms and basically am a normal person that can't change several facts:

      1) that I am awarded this ip
      2) that i was born in asia
      3) that i can't move out of asia now since I have responsibilities to fulfill.

      Sure, if you services doesn't need any of us asians, fine.

      But like the other guy said, the moment you become an admin for something major, you might want to rethink your strategies.

    12. Re:Get a real domain then. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      part of 202.0.0.0/8 belongs to amnet/amcom, an australian isp.

    13. Re:Get a real domain then. by caluml · · Score: 1

      I actually was worried about this, but from what I can tell (resolving some Australian sites www.gov.au, etc), and checking they didn't fall in the list) they don't get caught under this system. I can't remember why now - I know you're thinking that APNIC do Australia too, which they do, but the "grep ALLOCATED" misses them - they are listed as "LEGACY" in there.
      But if you know of any Australian netblocks I've caught, please let me know.

    14. Re:Get a real domain then. by novakreo · · Score: 1

      Every IP address I can ever remember having falls in one of those 'ALLOCATED' blocks. In particular, 61/8, 121/8, 203/8, 210/8, and 211/8, but there are definitely more.

      I guess by checking .gov.au sites and the like, you've only found organizations who jumped on the internet bandwagon pre-APNIC.

      --
      O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!
    15. Re:Get a real domain then. by caluml · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that's what I was banking on - that most ranges would be "LEGACY". Hmm. This looks quite promising. http://www.ipdeny.com/ipblocks/data/countries/au.zone

      Could you have a look in there, and see if netblocks you know are in there?

    16. Re:Get a real domain then. by sjames · · Score: 1

      Granted, I can see there are opportunities for abuse here, but if the owners of dynamic dns domains don't properly police their "customers" and spammers and/or other malicious websites start using it, then Google has every right to blacklist the entire domain. Of course, it's arguable exactly how much can be done to prevent it, but if you're really concerned about not getting your site blocked, go ahead and blow the $7 a year on your own domain, or use a smaller ddns service that can actually pay attention to the nature of the hosts it's serving.

      Of course, .com seems even more popular for abuse. Shall we block it?

      I definitely do NOT trust any single entity to make the right decision. No matter who it is or how well intentioned it starts out, eventually some combination of power trip and laziness takes over. Next thing, the standard of evidence becomes "hearsay is good enough".

      For email, I take a poll of several RBLs. Anyone can land in a single RBL as collateral damage or other screwups. Landing in 3 or 4 generally indicates a real spammer.

    17. Re:Get a real domain then. by novakreo · · Score: 1

      That list looks pretty comprehensive, at least for the handful of ISPs I've used.
      I trust you'll be adding firewall exceptions for other APNIC states such as New Zealand, right?

      Nonetheless, I still think this kind of blocking is a bad idea. It relies upon an up-to-date list of netblocks, and you'll never know if a legitimate customer from a netblock you've deemed suspicious has simply taken their business elsewhere. But that's for you to worry about, not me.

      --
      O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!
  5. Split it off by pembo13 · · Score: 1

    If people thing this is a useful service, split it off, or ask someone like Spamhaus to do it,and add it some more checks and balances.

    Better yet, release the code to the web service, and allow any sysadmin to host the server side portion themselves, of course with the ability to update from a central list, and accept 0% - 100% of a given list as they see fit.

    --
    "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
  6. Block can't be bypassed... by GravityStar · · Score: 1

    Great, if the blocked site makes use of frames, you just can't bypass the warning. And there's no way to permanently unblock a site...

    <sarcasm>I feel safer already</sarcasm>

    1. Re:Block can't be bypassed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure you can remove it, just go to Tools -> Settings -> Security and turn off the "Warnings" about malicious sites. It'll let you through.

  7. Re:Trust by Bieeanda · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yeah. While I reflexively rankle at the idea of blocking a whole swathe of domains like that, it's unfortunately clear that services like dyndns and mine.nu are going to be overrun with phishers and scammers because they're just as convenient to them as they are to non-malicious Internet users.

  8. I hate that Google can do this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    In my mind giving this power to Google is the most objectionable thing related to the company. I know somebody who has had his legitimate business ruined because Google mistakenly added his site to this list. Why? Because it was hosted on the same physical server as a truly objectionable web site.

    People need to stop childishly sneering at Windows users and take their focus away from Microsoft. The terrible Goliath is clearly Google now. Even when it's not being evil it causes trouble just by being *clumsy*.

    1. Re:I hate that Google can do this by Ash-Fox · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because it was hosted on the same physical server as a truly objectionable web site.

      Google doesn't filter based on IP addresses, but hostnames and URLs.

      The terrible Goliath is clearly Google now. Even when it's not being evil it causes trouble just by being *clumsy*.

      If you don't like it, don't use it. It's not like you don't have any alternatives.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    2. Re:I hate that Google can do this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What? How can you misunderstand everything quite so much?

      No, Google doesn't filter by IP address. But because the site was hosted on the same server as a bad site it added a URL block for the innocent too. Do you see?

      Secondly, the issue isn't about me using Firefox/Google. It's about customers who did and were told that the site they had browsed to was malicious. The business lost a valuable customer this way and folded.

    3. Re:I hate that Google can do this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I am not a lawyer, so I should stop now, but I have to suggest that your friend talk to a lawyer regarding this matter. Google could potentially be liable for damages for libel.

    4. Re:I hate that Google can do this by Ash-Fox · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, Google doesn't filter by IP address. But because the site was hosted on the same server as a bad site it added a URL block for the innocent too. Do you see?

      Doesn't sound like a very professional business if it was using the same domain that the bad site was on. Considering one can get a .com for 6USD a year, there really is no excuse.

      It's about customers who did and were told that the site they had browsed to was malicious. The business lost a valuable customer this way and folded.

      This company obviously wasn't doing very well to begin with, or did things properly to begin with either - This is not surprising.

      You are not going to convince me that they couldn't of done anything to change the outcome, even when they became aware of the situation.

      What I do find interesting is the fact you claim Google did this, when the anti-phishing filter in the most popular browser, IE is ran by Microsoft. The most popular search engine is Yahoo! - which does not using any phishing data from Google.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    5. Re:I hate that Google can do this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Doesn't sound like a very professional business if it was using the same domain that the bad site was on. Considering one can get a .com for 6USD a year, there really is no excuse.

      I didn't say that! Why can't you understand *ANYTHING*? The site was hosted on the same *server* as a malicious site. The site had its own domain, it was just on a shared hosting machine that Google mistakenly judged to be a network of malicious sites.

      Do you grasp this now?

    6. Re:I hate that Google can do this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      No, Google doesn't filter by IP address. But because the site was hosted on the same server as a bad site it added a URL block for the innocent too. Do you see?

      I don't see. How would Google determine that two sites with different domains are hosted on the same physical server, if not by IP number?

    7. Re:I hate that Google can do this by QuoteMstr · · Score: 1

      But how can what you're saying be true if Google blocks by domain name, not IP address? Why would Google care whether your friend's site was on the same physical server if it doesn't look at IP addresses and your friend's site had its own domain?

    8. Re:I hate that Google can do this by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      I didn't say that! Why can't you understand *ANYTHING*? The site was hosted on the same *server* as a malicious site. The site had its own domain, it was just on a shared hosting machine that Google mistakenly judged to be a network of malicious sites.

      Google does not match by IP addresses and in this case, this would be the only way they could 'detect' the same site being used on the same machine.

      Do you grasp this now?

      No.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    9. Re:I hate that Google can do this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are a moron for not even reading what this guy wrote.

    10. Re:I hate that Google can do this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      This is ridiculous. Are all furries this stupid?

      Here is the process, step by step:

      1) Somebody at Google decided that a site hosted on a shared server run by a very small company was bad.
      2) They added this bad site's URL to the block list.
      3) The PERSON (not script—you keep using the word "matched" as if you think this is a script) at Google mistakenly believed the entire server to be a bad egg. Perhaps there were other malicious sites on there and he judged them all to be bad. Here is an example of a server with many bad sites on it: http://www.websiteoutlook.com/www.a-big-huge-giant-clits-hairy-wet-cunts.com (notice how websiteoutlook is able to tell that they are on the same server. This is NOT witchery, it's an easy thing to tell). Google clearly likes to take all of the sites down in one swoop.
      4) Every site on the server was blacklisted by URL, including the innocent site.

      DO YOU GET IT NOW

    11. Re:I hate that Google can do this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since google is clearly evil, they might have used some evil magic here...

    12. Re:I hate that Google can do this by mixmatch · · Score: 1

      On a shared host it is not uncommon to have multiple domain names resolving to the same IP Address. Most web servers, like Apache, can be configured to run multiple domains. Many hosts will not give you a unique IP unless you pay extra or buy space on some variant of dedicated servers. Yahoo's hosting service, for example, does not appear to advertise a unique IP. Reseller hosting is pretty much guaranteed not to give you a unique IP.

      Regardless of whether the IPs were unique however, Google could still tie them together based on DNS Servers or IP address blocks owned by the host. If they are blocking an entire sub-domain service, I would not be surprised to see them block a web-hosting service that was not aggressive enough about shutting down spamming clients.

    13. Re:I hate that Google can do this by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      This is ridiculous. Are all furries this stupid?

      A attack on my character, how sweet of you.

      1) Somebody at Google decided that a site hosted on a shared server run by a very small company was bad.

      Incorrect, a site was flagged by some users as being "bad".

      2) They added this bad site's URL to the block list.

      After Google confirms this, they would of added /A/ URL to the blocklist, be it some wildcard matching or such. Such as they did with mine.nu. where they blacklisted "http*://*.mine.nu/*" - Impossible to blacklist sites that do not have ".mine.nu/" in them.

      3) The PERSON (not script--you keep using the word "matched" as if you think this is a script) at Google mistakenly believed the entire server to be a bad egg. Perhaps there were other malicious sites on there and he judged them all to be bad. Here is an example of a server with many bad sites on it: http://www.websiteoutlook.com/www.a-big-huge-giant-clits-hairy-wet-cunts.com (notice how websiteoutlook is able to tell that they are on the same server. This is NOT witchery, it's an easy thing to tell). Google clearly likes to take all of the sites down in one swoop.

      websiteoutlook.com is the domain, and yes, it's possible that Google filtered the domain. They do not however add filters to blacklist IP addresses. If this company did indeed have it's own site on it's own domain, this is not possible.

      4) Every site on the server was blacklisted by URL, including the innocent site.

      Again, they should of got their own domain. 6USD a year for a company is not going to break their budget, if it is, the company is dead already. Additionally, I do not believe when they became aware of the situation that they couldn't of done anything about it, such as.. Oh, I don't don't know.. Getting their own domain perhaps?

      DO YOU GET IT NOW

      I understand this company was extremely unprofessional because the examples you give me lead me to believe it did not truly have it's own domain. I also believe this company was not doing so well, since apparently it couldn't maintain business long enough to resolve the situation.

      In fact, I even suspect that this whole business thing you came up with was a completely hypothetical situation that never occured.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    14. Re:I hate that Google can do this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unbelievable ignorance. You're the only person who can't follow what's going on here (see this message for somebody who CAN parse written information: http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=971047&cid=25096195). You should have stuck to your AC account to avoid embarrassment.

    15. Re:I hate that Google can do this by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Unbelievable ignorance. You're the only person who can't follow what's going on here (see this message for somebody who CAN parse written information: http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=971047&cid=25096195).

      Again, Google does not filter by IP addresses. Which, as the mentioned comment describes, is the only way for one to identify it being on the same machine. This does not invalidate anything I have said so far.

      You should have stuck to your AC account to avoid embarrassment.

      I suspect you knew you were wrong (perhaps even lying) from the beginning and why you remain as such.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    16. Re:I hate that Google can do this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's no contradiction here. Google blocks by domain but, for all you or I know, once Google has blocked one domain, it may automatically add other domains at the same IP address to its blacklist. Or perhaps they block all domains at an IP address if a sufficient proportion of known domains there are bad.

      Why do you assume that the AC (not me, btw) is lying or mistaken?

    17. Re:I hate that Google can do this by Ash-Fox · · Score: 2, Informative

      I would assume the original AC is lying because Google's practices on filtering bad sites were disclosed long ago on http://www.stopbadware.org/

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    18. Re:I hate that Google can do this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      go back to yiffing in hell, furfag

    19. Re:I hate that Google can do this by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1, Redundant

      You've learned the term "IP address" and you're trying to apply it to everything. You're right, Google does not filter by IP address. This is not what I or anybody else has claimed. Go back, read through properly and fill in the gaps. There are now yet more individuals posting to tell you that you don't understand this.

      I don't take any credence from a brand new Slashdot account. I know it's you, Mr. AC.

      Don't draw a naked wolf giving a blowjob to a horse please, furry.

      http://d.furaffinity.net/art/pinkuh/1190102989.pinkuh_cerisepony01.jpg - Oops, too late :(

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    20. Re:I hate that Google can do this by NothingMore · · Score: 1

      Do you not understand what the OP was trying to say. HE KNOWS THEY DO NOT BLOCK BY IP ADDRESS IMPLICITLY. What he is saying is that because his friends website was hosted on the same PHYSICAL MACHINE with the same IP ADDRESS as the bad site that it was blocked even though it had a different HOSTNAME. What the OP is claiming is something that could reasonably occur (i have no inside knowledge on exactly how google does its filtering, but its not unfeasible for it to remember ip address;s and ban other host on the same ip [but different hostname]).

    21. Re:I hate that Google can do this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stop being such an asshole. You know what he means. Don't lead him on.

    22. Re:I hate that Google can do this by hobbit · · Score: 1

      You really are an idiot, aren't you?

      1) Go to http://www.websiteoutlook.com/www.a-big-huge-giant-clits-hairy-wet-cunts.com
      2) Observe text which says "Other Site On 63.243.140.77"
      3) There is no step 3. Oh alright I'll spell it out for you because you're obviously not the sharpest tool in the box: 63.243.140.77 is what we in the trade call an IP address.

      --
      "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
    23. Re:I hate that Google can do this by Ash-Fox · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      It's not a brand new account

      No posts on the account, everyone on Slashdot is going to consider it brand new. Except perhaps for some possible next slur of posts by you.

      You've embarrassed yourself on so many levels. It's brilliant.

      And yet you tell me this, as if, you're trying to make this happen, but hasn't happened.

      Not that your kind has any dignity.

      Here you go again with your character assassination. Rather than debating the subject, you would rather go rampage on about how I apparently "embarrassed" myself by getting modded up to +5 Karma on two posts.

      I'm just going to go now and leave you to making yourself look foolish on your own merits.

      You are the one who is doing character assassination instead of coming up with a logical argument that cannot be refuted. I think you need to look in the mirror.

      Perhaps you should of done some more research into believable argument - something that didn't rely on a low percentage of web users that use Firefox (only browser I'm aware of that uses Google's phishing lists) and the fact that Yahoo (doesn't use Google's phishing list) and Google are pretty much on par with each other for user usage.

      Additionally not taking into account that the company in question could of reported a false positive and the fact that Google does not filter websites or match websites based on IP addresses.

      I would like to point out that, since you insist there was IP matching, I have to wonder what kind of business this was, since obviously HTTPS is specific to IP addresses and a specific domain, they couldn't of had a HTTPS site since you suggest it was the same IP address and there were other sites on the same machine.

      This "company" sounds really shady.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    24. Re:I hate that Google can do this by Ash-Fox · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Stop being such an asshole. You know what he means. Don't lead him on.

      Ah, I like this trick. By posting earlier in the thread it looks like I'm leading on the person. Nice character assassination.

      Moderators, I should caution you to look at the time of each post.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    25. Re:I hate that Google can do this by Annymouse+Cowherd · · Score: 1

      Slashdot is being clumsy, not Google. Dynamic DNS sites are usually pointed at home servers. These were linked to from the front page of Slashdot. Carnage ensued.

    26. Re:I hate that Google can do this by Fred_A · · Score: 1

      I don't see. How would Google determine that two sites with different domains are hosted on the same physical server, if not by IP number?

      I thought they used specially trained little Google elves or something...

      --

      May contain traces of nut.
      Made from the freshest electrons.
  9. first time by Toveling · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is the first time we've heard about Google (or any others) making a bad block. As long as Google fixes this expediently, I'd say that it's an acceptable margin of error and the amount of phishing sites blocked is by far worth it. Now, if wikileaks suddenly gets blocked for 'phishing', something is definitely awry.

    1. Re:first time by Smallpond · · Score: 1

      What makes you think that Google will change their minds? They have automated the collection of information.

      Google information for jumpbump.mine.nu:
      "Of the 4329 pages we tested on the site over the past 90 days, 0 page(s) resulted in malicious software being downloaded and installed without user consent. The last time Google visited this site was on 09/21/2008, and suspicious content was never found on this site within the past 90 days.

      Malicious software includes 7523 scripting exploit(s), 2911 trojan(s). Successful infection resulted in an average of 0 new processes on the target machine."

      So Google already knows that this site is not hosting malware, but blocks it anyway.

    2. Re:first time by vasko · · Score: 1

      Couple weeks ago they blocked icasualties.org for a few days.

    3. Re:first time by Tacvek · · Score: 1

      The big reason I think they will change is the fact that they have already de-blocked mine.nu.
      I think (hope) they may have placed the site on a list of sites to block only at the third-level domain not the second level. It may take time for the block list to be purged from browsers. On the other hand, My copy of Fx never got the version of the list with mine.nu included. I base the de-blocking on the removal of the warning page from clicking on the link, and the notice that the site is not currntly listed when querying the stopbadware.org clearinghouse.

      --
      Stylish sheet to fix many problems in Slashdot's D3: https://gist.github.com/801524
  10. Not google's fault by ninjapiratemonkey · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The summary reads as though it was google's fault that the entire domain was blacklisted, while it's more of a mozilla issue. Mozilla releases this list of "Attack Sites" and Google Search automatically blocks them. Even if I get to the site without google, FF3 still lists it as dangerous, and warns me.
    If anyone should receive blame (which IMO they shouldn't), it's Mozilla and their blacklist.

    --
    01110000 01010111 01101110 00110011 01100100
    1. Re:Not google's fault by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Um, no. The list is supplied by Google. When Firefox blocks a site, press the 'Why was this site blocked?' button to see Google's warning about it (http://safebrowsing.clients.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?client=Firefox&hl=en-US&site=http://mine.nu/ in this case).

    2. Re:Not google's fault by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you dig deeper then you'll find out it's not google, but a partnership. http://www.stopbadware.org/
      You can also reports errors there without registering with google.

      I was one of the persons effected by this. I run a none profit simple webserver at home for friends. I get 50~100 people visiting each day, who are not that tech savy. I had to explain to every single one of them what was going on, as they love some of the services I give.

      But in the end, I'm happy that they solved it this fast. Everything is back in order.

  11. Report Incorrect Forgery Alert by zidane2k1 · · Score: 1

    I dunno how much good it could do, but I suppose people could do the "Report Incorrect Forgery Alert" thing. I'd think it really would be better if they individually added the malicious subdomains individually, rather than blocking the entire domain, which (I'd guess) contains legitimate, or at least non-harmful, sites as a majority.

    (Oh, and btw, here's Google's Safe Browsing report for mine.nu.)

  12. Everybody makes mistakes, false positives by Mr.+Gus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Any maintained blacklist of any reasonable size is going to end up with false positives. It's one of those things you just have to accept. People notice and report it, the entry gets removed, and we move on.

    1. Re:Everybody makes mistakes, false positives by fxkr · · Score: 2, Informative

      Any maintained blacklist of any reasonable size is going to end up with false positives. It's one of those things you just have to accept. People notice and report it, the entry gets removed, and we move on.

      *If* the entry gets removed.

    2. Re:Everybody makes mistakes, false positives by bornwaysouth · · Score: 1

      I would agree. You have to accept false positives. Humans carefully checking stuff are too slow. The Sapphire Worm doubled in size every 8.5 seconds. See this. Phishing is going to be slower, but I do not want to rely on a bureaucratic check-with-my-lawyer system.

      One key point is the .nu in the address - Niue. Anyone running anything important out of Niue is essentially registered with www.cowboysandsharks.com. Enjoy the freedom if you are using it, but don't complain about the company you keep. Don't expect the Niue islanders to help. The place is a tiny island in the South Pacific, with about 1500 people (Wikipedia). Selling internet addresses is a cheap income source. They lack resources to police it.

  13. Remote monitoring possibilities by fph+il+quozientatore · · Score: 0, Troll
    Actually, it is even more scary than this. Have a look at the protocol: here's how it works:

    1- Firefox automatically downloads a list of 32-bit hashes of "dangerous" addresses
    2- when the user browses on a site matching one of these hashes, Firefox sends a request to Google for a 256-bit version of the same hash
    3- does the site match the 256-bit hash? If yes, warn user; if not, continue silently.

    Convinced? Well, here's how it really works:

    1- <insert name here> tells Google to monitor www.terrorist.com
    2- Google adds the 32-bit hash of www.terrorist.com to the list
    3- when the browser sends a request for the 256-bit hash of www.terrorist.com, Google replies with a hash that does not match www.terrorist.com
    4- the user notices nothing strange and continues browsing
    5- Google sends <insert name here> a list of all the people browsing on www.terrorist.com, identified through cookies (including their GMail password).

    Please forget the usual "??? - Profit!" jokes, and go warn the Firefox developers.

    --
    My first program:

    Hell Segmentation fault

    1. Re:Remote monitoring possibilities by volsung · · Score: 1

      You make quite a leap in step #5. There is no indication that Firefox sends any of the current browser cookies to Google in step #3. Google could certainly log IP addresses in step #3, which is the real privacy issue here.

    2. Re:Remote monitoring possibilities by fph+il+quozientatore · · Score: 1

      There is no indication that Firefox sends any of the current browser cookies to Google in step #3

      Evidence is here (section 3.7.1):

      The client performs a datarequest by sending an HTTP POST request to the URI:

      and here (section 4.3.4):

      When it sends a request to an origin server, the user agent sends a Cookie request header to the origin server if it has cookies that are applicable to the request

      --
      My first program:

      Hell Segmentation fault

    3. Re:Remote monitoring possibilities by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your www.terrorist.com example does not work very well.

      Firstly, the downloaded list of dangerous sites contains only partial hashes. This means there are collisions. That's why the browser requests a full hash. So in step 3, all that Google can determine is that someone has visited www.terrorist.com or another site that has the same partial hash.

      Furthermore, Firefox frustrates any such monitoring by sending not only the partial hash of the site you visited but also a few other nearby hashes from the dangerous sites list (see bug 419117 for details).

      Finally, any such monitoring properly violates the privacy policy.

    4. Re:Remote monitoring possibilities by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no indication that Firefox sends any of the current browser cookies to Google in step #3.

      Actually, they do (see bug 368255).

      Google could certainly log IP addresses in step #3, which is the real privacy issue here.

      According to http://code.google.com/apis/safebrowsing/firefox3_privacy.html, they're logged and kept for two weeks.

    5. Re:Remote monitoring possibilities by volsung · · Score: 1

      Wow, ok, I stand corrected. Building the protocol around cookie transmission is a very bad idea. Hopefully that bug gets taken seriously.

  14. Re:Trust by calmofthestorm · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We need to educate users to check the URL before entering anything. Any time you rely on a technological solution to a social problem you end up with woes.

    --
    93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
  15. Anti-Phishing makes Firefox slow by Anders · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Note that the anti-phishing feature makes Firefox slow over time.

  16. People never learn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is history repeating itself. At first, blacklists seem like a good idea, they gain a following and become more influential. With rising influence they draw the attention of their enemies. The black lists either become overloaded with evasive maneuvers or accept increasing amounts of collateral damage, either as a form of kin liability or simply as a time-saving broad brush. It's not a simple mistake which can be avoided with better care. It's inevitability. All blacklists do it. Blacklists are an inherently bad idea.

  17. This was a dumb idea anyway by CSMatt · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Putting anti-phishing filters into browsers just shifts the responsibility of good security practices from the user to some blacklisting company. What incentive is there to be weary about suspicious sites if you can count on the almighty Google to hold your hand while you browse the Web? This makes about as much sense as someone installing parental controls in their machine and declaring that their Internet connection is now "kid-friendly."

    I've never had these filters turned on, and I've never exposed my financial data to others by accident. Usually this has something to do with me hovering the mouse over links and checking the URL in the status bar.

    1. Re:This was a dumb idea anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most users are dumb. You can't change that in a significant way.

      That said, "good security practices" do not fit with the word "dumb" which is synonymous with the word "user."

      It is much easier to change the technology being used. Sure, it's not perfect. Nothing is.

      I'm glad you're safe without these technologies. MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT AND WILL NOT BE. Here's your gold star, you should be very proud that you are a better user than most.

    2. Re:This was a dumb idea anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What incentive is there to be weary about suspicious sites [...]

      You know what makes me weary? People that don't know how to spell wary.

      Hint:
      weary = wear me down = make tired.
      wary = ware = beware.

      Spellcheck can't help you if you are properly spelling the wrong word.

      Just saying.

    3. Re:This was a dumb idea anyway by thetartanavenger · · Score: 1

      At the moment my grandma is being taught to use the internet, we've taught her the basics of browsing and security, but there are so many things for her to keep track of that some are forgotten from time to time. It's not her fault as this is a completely new experience for her and I wouldn't expect her to be able to remember everything. Whilst the blacklist causes certain (in my opinion acceptable) drawbacks such as this, I'd much rather she had that little extra bit of protection. Calling it a dumb idea is dumb itself, it's not foolproof and can certainly be considered an inconvenience, but it's not dumb. And if the user is smart enough to work without it then they, like you, can turn it off, it's not as if they make that hard to do..

      --
      Who need's speling and grammar?
    4. Re:This was a dumb idea anyway by SnowZero · · Score: 1

      "Putting spell checking into browsers just shifts the responsibility of good language practices from the user to some software company."

      Just guessing what the response would be. He probably drives without a seatbelt and rides a bicycle/motorcycle without a helmet. After all, "I've never been in an accident, or lost my financial data." means you never will, right?

    5. Re:This was a dumb idea anyway by CSMatt · · Score: 1

      My grandmother has the same problem (she even called me saying that Firefox was broken and I later found out that she had resized the browser window) but she manages while I'm away by having books lying around about this stuff. To date I'm not aware of her exposing any unwanted details to an e-mail that looks like it came from a bank. Then again, she might not be either, but I'm assuming that it hasn't happened.

      It's a dumb idea because it gives people fish instead of teaching them how to fish. It's like the misperception that the existence of anti-virus software inherently protects a machine, and that you have no worries about whether to open those suspicious files. You and me both know that it is still more than possible to get hosed even if all sorts of security stuff is installed if the problem lies between the keyboard and chair. PEBKAC doesn't go away with more software. Only education can reduce it.

    6. Re:This was a dumb idea anyway by InfiniteLoopCounter · · Score: 1

      Most users are dumb. You can't change that in a significant way.

      Maybe so.

      ...the word "dumb" which is synonymous with the word "user."

      Here you are taking this too far though.

      I know this site has lots of traffic from people in IT, but seriously, this is a stupid mentality to have.

      While it may be technically fine to treat users as "dumb," when sentiment "evolves" like this it could be harmful to the productive capacity of a workplace.

      No one likes to be called "dumb." The irony of this is that the smart people who are not good with computers (think older generations of physicists, for example) won't find this place to respond to these comments.

    7. Re:This was a dumb idea anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hint:
      weary = wear me down = make tired.
      wary = ware = beware.

      I agree with your remark about spellchecking only working on the correct word. Also implicit reliance on any spellcheck is flawed. My copy of Firefox thinks "spellchecking" should be "speechifying". That said, the example you give might not help much because of ambiguity.

      wear: v. To carry or have on the person as covering, adornment, or protection: wearing a jacket; must wear a seat belt. (1st of 10 definitions)
      ware: n. An article of commerce.

      Indeed many dictionaries may not list the definition of ware that you give, considering it to be obsolete. Aside from that weary (wîr') is one of those adjectives which is pronounced differently to it's related verb so the relationship might be immediately obvious.

      I'm also just saying.

    8. Re:This was a dumb idea anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The post:

      I've never had these filters turned on, and I've never exposed my financial data to others by accident. Usually this has something to do with me hovering the mouse over links and checking the URL in the status bar.

      The sig:

      "Preview" is for wimps

      = hilarious

  18. Some pain needs to be applied by Animats · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you're serious about blocking phishing sites, you have to accept some collateral damage. Blocking by URL stopped working last year; most attacks have unique URLs now. Many have unique subdomains. So you have to block at the second-level domain level to be effective.

    We publish a list of major domains being exploited by phishing scams. Today, there are 46 domains listed. eBay, for example, is on the list, because eBay has an open redirector exploit. Click on that URL. It says "ebay.com", right? It looks like eBay, right? It's not.

    On the other hand, "tinyurl.com", which used to be popular with phishers, has been able to get off the blacklist by cracking down on misuse of their service. It's possible to do redirection competently.

    When we started our list last year, it had about 175 exploited domains. After some serious nagging and an article in The Register, we're down to 46. And only 11 have been on the list for more than three months; the others come and go as exploits are reported and holes plugged. So this is a problem that can be solved.

    I'm glad to see Google taking a hard line on this. It's necessary that sites that do redirection feel the pain when they accept redirects to hostile sites. Google can apply much more pain that we can. Few sites will want to be on Google's blacklist for long.

    1. Re:Some pain needs to be applied by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow. I didn't know you could use hex notation for numerical IP addresses.

      Parent's link redirects you to the site 0xc924a44, which is 12.146.74.68.

      For example, http://0xd822b52d/ is goatse. J/k. It's slashdot. You can trust me!

    2. Re:Some pain needs to be applied by russotto · · Score: 1

      If you're serious about blocking phishing sites, you have to accept some collateral damage. Blocking by URL stopped working last year; most attacks have unique URLs now. Many have unique subdomains. So you have to block at the second-level domain level to be effective.

      This line of reasoning ends only when the whole net is blocked.

    3. Re:Some pain needs to be applied by SnowZero · · Score: 1

      This line of reasoning ends only when the whole net is blocked.

      There are shades of gray, and you don't have to pick one of two extremes[1]. You can ban nuclear bombs without banning pocket knives, even thought they might both be weapons someone would like to own.

      [1] It might not seem like that in an election year though.

    4. Re:Some pain needs to be applied by russotto · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, if you've got a bias to one side or another and your "shade of gray" solution is ineffective, the tendency is to keep moving towards the extreme.

    5. Re:Some pain needs to be applied by Animats · · Score: 1

      This line of reasoning ends only when the whole net is blocked.

      No. That was the conventional wisdom when we (SiteTruth) started putting out that report. We originally thought that thousands of domains might be on that list. But no. The number of well-known domains (and we're using Open Directory, which is 1.4 million or so domains, to define "well known") being exploited stays around 50 ± 25, and as previously mentioned, only 11 of them have been on the list for more than three months. It's necessary to apply a clue stick to only a small number of webmasters to fix the problem.

      Some problems can actually be solved. This is one of them.

  19. Firefox's anti-* shouldn't be enabled by default by TheDarkener · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is something that strikes me as the first time Firefox really pushed something out by default that shouldn't be. Just for one example, people who are on LTSP networks, say, 200 users, will ALL download anti-phishing, anti-malware blacklists from Google, each in their own home directory. There's no way that I know of, anyway, to share this data - SQLite seems to make it impossible. That's the first mistake in creating a compatible, light web browser.

    The second mistake is enabling website blocking based on 3rd party blacklists by default. This is basically Microsoft UI thinking - "You *need* this because you don't know any better." Screw that. I mean, make it a checkbox on setup - "Use Google-provided anti-malware blacklists" Simple as that. I spent weeks trying to find out why, after just a few Firefox instances were launched on an LTSP server, none more would load - part of this was because every user logging in was trying to download the anti-malware stuff from Google, saturating the line, and preventing Firefox from loading for the first time.

    I hope the Firefox devs will take all scenarios into account when making changes. It seems lame that every user needs all of the stuff in places.sqlite. And even if you argue with that, at the LEAST make it cross-DB compatible, so you can put everyone's in a nice big central MySQL database.

    --
    It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
  20. Re:Trust by spazdor · · Score: 1

    My position is that dynamic DNS services have nothing to do with phishing and scamming. Since either way, the URL is phony, there's not much practical difference between running a fake hotmail site at http://h0tm4il.mine.ru/ rather than at http://24.64.197.48./ There aren't many people out there who would be fooled by one but not the other.

    --
    DRM: Terminator crops for your mind!
  21. Never ascribe to malice ... by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Never ascribe to malice what can be equally ascribed to incompetence.

    The corollary of this is, of course, that you should still be wary of single points of failure, even if you do not believe they will fail you on purpose.

    --
    Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
  22. Re:Trust by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

    But what about legit sites? I don't mean these dynamic that could be nice one day and nasty the next either. I have noticed for the past week and a half or so Firefox has been screaming Freeware World Team is a malicious malware site. I have been using FWT for nearly a decade to find little niche freeware to fill jobs me or my customers needed done and never had so much as a piece of spyware. So maybe we should have more than one group comparing their notes to make up our anti phishing/anti malware lists? Because it seems like a false positive could really hurt a business,and could possibly even be used by a rival to cause real damage when their competitor is in bad shape. But as always this is my 02c,YMMV

    --
    ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  23. Re:LOL by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

    Except that none of us use IE, so they could very well block the same domains in IE7's phishing filter and we'd never know it.

    --
    GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
  24. Re:Trust by GIL_Dude · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't know anything about the FWT site; it may be fine. However, do remember that just because a site is trustworthy over time doesn't mean it is trustworthy today , on this visit.

    I just had that driven home for me the other day. In my off time, I am a youth soccer coach. The website for our league has been fine for several years. Last week I visited it and got the malware warning from FireFox. I checked with the webmaster and sure enough, they had gotten hit with a SQL injection attack and had indeed gotten malware of some sort hosted on the site.

    So, FWT may be a false positive - but it is at leat possible that they also got successfully attacked.

    We really don't have a good system to evaluate trust on the fly due to the dynamic nature of internet content. A page that was fine 20 minutes ago may attack you now.

  25. Everything Makes FF 'Slow Over Time' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's why huge numbers of people have and are dumping it for Chrome.

    Firefox is an gigantic mess of a codebase that is years overdue for having a complete rewrite from scratch. Or even better just dump the shitpile that is the Firefox source and fork off a version of Chrome.

  26. Re:LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LOL: Dear asshole wishful thinking is not a good replacement for reality.

  27. Re:LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nice trolling here. The "anti phishing" option in IE7 slows down your surfing considerably, which is why most of our users (freemail service) disable it so they don't have to wait 10-40 sek. to log out of the webmailer (IE7 does not complete the logout until the URL has been "confirmed" being "good", which sadly takes "ages" even via DSL, let alone dialup...). MS keeps its own blacklist and it is naturally just a matter of time until they have bad entries there, too. Apart from that, who'd really trust MS to tell their browser what's good and what's bad?

  28. not only mine.nu by PaKud · · Score: 1

    anything within shacknet.nu subdomain - also provided for free by dyndns.com - got blacklisted as well.

  29. Oh no, someone made a mistake! by lattyware · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Shit happens. Yes, it sucks, but it happens. Now, should we try to blow up the googleplex? No. Google are not blocking based on a secret agenda here, and you can bypass it or turn off the feature. OK, it'd be nice if you could choose who provides the service, but overall, it's not that big a deal.

    --
    -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
    1. Re:Oh no, someone made a mistake! by Xentalion · · Score: 1

      I think you can change who provides the anti-phishing filter. Check browser.safebrowsing in Firefox 3's about:config.

    2. Re:Oh no, someone made a mistake! by lattyware · · Score: 1

      s/change provider/change provider easily

      --
      -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
  30. A Spamhaus Misunderstanding? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I believe that Spamhaus does not block anything. It reports opinions based on users' experiences and leaves it to individuals to make their own judgements and act accordingly

    1. Re:A Spamhaus Misunderstanding? by grasshoppa · · Score: 1

      Not an exact comparison, I grant you, although in reality that's all google is doing too; the end user is simply accepting the default behavior of "BLOCK".

      --
      Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
  31. Blocking themselves? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Whats about blocking Google, with their search users can be found malicious websites

  32. Re:Trust by santiagodraco · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's just not going to happen. We like to think that "everyone" is capable of understanding what is going on when they browse the web, but that's wishful thinking.

    It will be a LONG time until you can ever hope that the general public is as smart as the malicious few out there. Until then technology solutions will continue to be needed, desired and our best bet in combating this. Hell, they always will.

  33. Re:LOL by __aaqvdr516 · · Score: 1

    Except that none of us use IE, so they could very well block the same domains in IE7's phishing filter and we'd never know it.

    While you may not use IE, some of us do. Just use the right tool for the right job.

    Case and point: My online college coursework sometimes disappears if submitted using FF3. Using IE8 beta does not (and it worked fine under IE7 as well).

    Yet another case and point: Flash videos under Ubuntu 8.04 with FF3 crash the browser every 4th video. FF3 under windows works without a hitch.

  34. Re:Trust by caluml · · Score: 2, Funny

    Well, there's a pair of boobies poking out at you on the mine.ru page.

  35. this is where the line has been crossed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google search, email. advertising, mapping, etc., etc., and now self appointed non-reviewed internet police department.

    Uhm, that's a bad scene folks.

  36. Why was this blocked? by LingNoi · · Score: 3, Informative

    Safe Browsing
    Diagnostic page for mine.nu/

    What is the current listing status for mine.nu/?

            Site is listed as suspicious - visiting this web site may harm your computer.

            Part of this site was listed for suspicious activity 3 time(s) over the past 90 days.

    What happened when Google visited this site?

            Of the 4329 pages we tested on the site over the past 90 days, 0 page(s) resulted in malicious software being downloaded and installed without user consent. The last time Google visited this site was on 09/21/2008, and suspicious content was never found on this site within the past 90 days.

            Malicious software includes 7523 scripting exploit(s), 2911 trojan(s). Successful infection resulted in an average of 0 new processes on the target machine.

    Has this site acted as an intermediary resulting in further distribution of malware?

            Over the past 90 days, mine.nu/ appeared to function as an intermediary for the infection of 183 site(s) including culportal.info, mipt.ru, baikal-discovery.ru.

    Has this site hosted malware?

            Yes, this site has hosted malicious software over the past 90 days. It infected 932 domain(s), including bernard-becker.com, mipt.ru, dhammasara.com.

    How did this happen?

            In some cases, third parties can add malicious code to legitimate sites, which would cause us to show the warning message.

    Next steps:

            * Return to the previous page.
            * If you are the owner of this web site, you can request a review of your site using Google Webmaster Tools. More information about the review process is available in Google's Webmaster Help Center.

    1. Re:Why was this blocked? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't you get it? mine.nu is a reseller, so blocking the whole mine.nu makes about as much sense as blocking blogger.com because of a few blogs with malicious content.

      Weren't Google and Mozilla putting together some huge list of reseller domains just to avoid this happening? Apparently they still have a lot to do. mine.nu is not exactly unknown.

      And what does this mean:

      suspicious content was never found on this site within the past 90 days.[...] Over the past 90 days, mine.nu/ appeared to function as an intermediary for the infection of 183 site(s) [...] It infected 932 domain(s)

      Huh? If there is no "suspicious content", how can it infect other sites?

  37. Worst Slashdot Story Ever? by kayditty · · Score: 0

    The summary is terrible. It doesn't provide any information whatsoever, and makes a lot of claims that I'm apparently to take at face value. There's not even an article. Okay, that's not exactly new for Slashdot posts. Whatever. It took me several re-reads to figure out what the hell they were even talking about -- what the fuck does Slashdot have to do with Google? After sifting through the comments, I'm _guessing_ it has something to do with the new anti-phishing protections in Firefox 3 (and maybe they exist in Firefox 2 as well; I can't be bothered to check). But where the fuck does Google come in? No one even bothers to tell you, and apparently it's expected to be common knowledge (no one else has even asked).

    I have seen those stupid Google warning pages that I get when I try to visit a page it has "blocked" for "my safety," which is completely and utterly fucking ridiculous. If I didn't want to click on a god damn motherfucking page, I wouldn't click on it. That's one of the reasons I'm about to stop using Google. I don't need a fucking search engine to hold my hand. That's also the reason I've turned off anti-phishing in Firefox whenever I've seen the option, because I'm not a complete fucking idiot. So I'm going to make a WILD conclusion that Google is sharing this list with Firefox. One post suggested that a hash of an IP address and/or hostname was sent to Google to check against their list. If that's the case, then that's even more ridiculous than I had ever suspected.

    Both Firefox and Google can fuck off. They're both shit by now anyway.

    1. Re:Worst Slashdot Story Ever? by LingNoi · · Score: 1

      Saved me today. I visited a web page that some how turned off windows firewall before Firefox kicked in and blocked the page. First time something like that has ever happened to me, normally because I am using no-script on Linux.

    2. Re:Worst Slashdot Story Ever? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I visited a web page that some how turned off windows firewall before Firefox kicked in and blocked the page.

      If this is true, you are already infected with some sort of Malware - whatever turned the firewall off was *already running as admin* on your PC.

  38. Re:Trust by houghi · · Score: 1

    Although a great idea, it won't work. Even when you speak to each person individualy, they will not understand the danger unless they are either technicaly savy enough or if they have been abused in some way because of it. And even then they will most likely not care. They clicked on 10.000.000 links so the next one won't be so bad and they have a virus program, so they MUST be safe, right?

    It is as if you try to explain to RMS that personal presentation is importand for many people.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  39. Re:Trust by calmofthestorm · · Score: 1

    Maybe, but I'm still against the false sense of security these "anti-phishing" tools provide. And although I see it may be a necessary evil, it bugs me how many legitimate sites are going to be burned by this.

    --
    93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
  40. Re:Firefox's anti-* shouldn't be enabled by defaul by Karellen · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "There's no way that I know of, anyway, to share this data - SQLite seems to make it impossible."

    Well, I doubt it's SQLite that makes it impossible, it's more that you don't want ordinary users writing to a single shared blacklist. Because if a user can download and write good data to it, they can write bad data to it.

    Suddenly all it takes is for one user to click on the dancing bunnies, and they're running a daemon without knowing it that writes bad data to the blacklist, monitors the list for changes, and rewrites it if any of the other users change it back to what it "should" be. That fucks things up for *everyone*, which kind of defeats the whole idea of having separate user accounts that protect everyone from each other.

    "The second mistake is enabling website blocking based on 3rd party blacklists by default."

    If you don't do that then non-geeks - the people who need this most - will never find it to switch it on. If you're a geek and you don't like it and are smart enough to spot phishing attempts yourself (and good luck with that by the way; I've seen reports of many trials here on /. where even seasoned network admins don't get a 100% success rate at spotting them) then you're probably smart enough to find the checkbox to disable it.

    "And even if you argue with that, at the LEAST make it cross-DB compatible, so you can put everyone's in a nice big central MySQL database."

    Bleargh! You want a DB-abstraction layer so that ... everyone can write to the same DB? That will add bloat and do nothing to fix the problem.

    If you make the database writable only by root/Administrator and have a separate daemon/service that runs as that user to update, with all users having read-only access, that would solve your problem. But then someone else would complain that this service was running and creating network traffic uselessly when no-one was actually running firefox, or even logged in.

    For a home user, what they've got makes sense. If you're running a reasonable-sized network, or have something like LTSP, you should be able to set up Squid proxy (or similar) so that only one user causes the list to be fetched from the network and everyone else loads your cached copy.

    Make it do the right thing for n00bs out of the box. Experts can configure it differently for themselves because, well, they're experts.

    --
    Why doesn't the gene pool have a life guard?
  41. Re:Trust by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

    Which is why I use Noscript and have begun giving it to my customers and teaching them how to use it. JavaScript has become simply too dangerous,much like ActiveX was during its heyday. I have found that most sites work just fine without JScripting,in fact they usually load quicker.

    So does anyone know how to turn the stupid malware alert in Firefox off? With Noscript I don't really need it,and I'm certainly not going to any website by email links. but FWT has the best freeware search engine I have ever seen,and use the site several times a day to find freeware to do a niche job,and it is really irritating to have to click on the website two or three times just to get the thing to go away. So is there anyway to turn it off,or at least tell it to quit bothering me about FWT? Because it is beginning to bug me enough that I have been using Kmeleon with Noscript,but I really miss my other extensions. And as always this is my 02c,YMMV

    --
    ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  42. pay! buy! get your certr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    oh yes, ddns providers usually check what people do with each registered domain because they don't have anything better to do.. and for your super-practical solution "pay for your domain, pay for your ssl cert, pay for..." i know a much better bush-stile-solution: unplug your fucking internet connection to stay secure and leave us alone. it is NOT normal to ban thousends of domains because someone has used the service for pishing

    1. Re:pay! buy! get your certr by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      oh yes, ddns providers usually check what people do with each registered domain because they don't have anything better to do.. and for your super-practical solution "pay for your domain, pay for your ssl cert, pay for..." i know a much better bush-stile-solution: unplug your fucking internet connection to stay secure and leave us alone. it is NOT normal to ban thousends of domains because someone has used the service for pishing

      So you say that the blacklist maintainers should do what ddns providers don't have the time to do - because, hey, they sure don't have anything better to do?

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    2. Re:pay! buy! get your certr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Blacklist maintainers claim to blacklist malicious sites. It's kinda hard to do that without checking whether a site is malicious, don't you think?

  43. Re:Trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A page that was fine 20 minutes ago may attack you now.

    You're saying websites are like women?!?

  44. Re:Trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Preferences->Security
    "Tell me if the site I'm visiting is a suspect attack site"
    "Tell me if the site I'm visiting is a suspect forgery"

  45. The real issue is about control by davidu · · Score: 1

    First of all, let me point out that I started PhishTank.com, which is a free + community-managed version of what Google's anti-phishing service does. Our service is in use by OpenDNS, Yahoo Mail, Kaspersky and countless other large and small companies (and researchers, too), so my thoughts are both highly informed, but also biased.

    The main issue comes down to control. When something is blocked incorrectly, as it inevitably will, do you have the ability to by pass it easily? If you are the webmaster, do you have a clear path to get it resolved in a timely manner?

    The mechanism Googlefox uses to automagically enable and block malicious sites is very very aggressive and it's not very clear how users can disable the feature. Additionally, the "let me through to the site" often doesn't work, and it requires you to re-validate on every pageload. It's a user experience nightmare, effectively removing control from the user.

    As a publisher, it's not clear how to get yourself unblocked or how to escalate your concern. You can fill out a form with Google, but there is zero transparency into that process.

    At PhishTank, we allow all users, and site owners, to flag what they believe is a mistake. It almost never is a mistake, more often they've simply corrected the issue. We make it easy for publishers and users to see the history of data in our system.

    At the end of the day, you need to have an open system that is transparent and reliable. A security system that is inside a blackbox is no kind of security system at all.

    -davidu

    --

    # Hack the planet, it's important.
  46. blocked removed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This time google was fast.

  47. Re:Trust by seaturnip · · Score: 1

    I don't think it's a very bright idea to visit a reported attack site regardless of what browser and security addons you have. I'd leave it on and not use FWT until the alert goes away (presumably it's because it was hacked or has an evil third-party advertisement).

  48. I've seen it happen myself dozens of times by Trepidity · · Score: 1

    Basically any site that includes a forum can get blocked if someone in the forum links to something considered malware. I actually have no idea how places like Slashdot haven't gotten blocked for that (maybe they special-case high-profile sites?), but a bunch of smaller sites with forums like ratebeer and Gamasutra have gotten blocked repeatedly.

  49. I turned this off a long time ago by Trepidity · · Score: 1

    The biggest problem for me isn't the default blocking and a need for me to manually verify if I do indeed want to visit the site after seeing the warning. It's that I can't then tell it to go away. Even if I click "ignore", it'll then load the site, but it'll pop up the red block screen every single time I click on another link to another part of the site. It also throws away POST data when doing this, so I can't use search features on sites. There's no way to add an exception, like "foo.com really is OK, I mean it, now shut the fuck up about it forever".

    The only way to get that functionality is to turn the "anti-phishing protection" off entirely, so that's what I did of necessity, since it's not usable otherwise.

  50. Re:Trust by teh+moges · · Score: 1

    Maybe not h0tm4il, but what about hotmailsecure.mine.ru, or www.hotmail.mine.ru? Not everyone knows that Russia is a key area for phishing, and almost nobody technical would get the link between .ru and Russia anyway. Most people wouldn't be able to tell you how a URL is formed (the combination of little and big endian can be very confusing), and even if you get the basic concepts, there are other techniques that can be used to obfuscate the URL.

  51. Since Gmail.com can be blocked, why not? by kentsin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I do not recognize any proof or intention to proof that information is harmful (to child).

    Never, mind, people just use their power. Do you?

  52. Re:LOL by TheNetAvenger · · Score: 1

    URL has been "confirmed" being "good", which sadly takes "ages" even via DSL, let alone dialup

    Really, the server processes the confirmation request and sends back that byte of information over your connection slower if you are using dialup?

    Wow, you are super smart, can I be your friend?

    Geesh...

    MS keeps its own blacklist

    MS's blacklist is a community created and supported blacklist, not just a service or a list that one company can go 'bang' and kill a domain. Even MS isn't stupid enough to give themselves that kind of power. (Apparently Google is that stupid *cough*)

    You also seem to not understand how IE works with MS anti-phising, if you think it slows down the browser, as the content is downloaded while the URL is being checked, so it doesn't slow down page loads like OTHER browsers or anti-phising technoloogies do.

    Maybe research the Anti-Phishing technology MS uses next time and not make up crap on the fly.

  53. Re:LOL by TheNetAvenger · · Score: 1

    LOL: Dear asshole wishful thinking is not a good replacement for reality.

    I assume this is something you have experienced to the point of becoming an expert?

    OSS will kill Microsoft, the Desktop computer is a thing of the past, Firefox is more secure than IE7, OS X is more secure than Vista, Linux will replace Windows on the Desktop (insert year here).

    Sadly even as many times as this crap is repeated on SlashDot and other publications, it still isn't true, and looks like it won't be true for a long time if ever based on the current trend.

    Microsoft is stronger and richer than ever, hows that for reality?

  54. Re:LOL by TheNetAvenger · · Score: 1

    same domains in IE7's phishing filter

    But here is a part of the point being made. MS's Anti-Phishing doesn't block complete domains in one whack.

    URL based checking vs domain based seems a bit 'brighter' to me, and apparently with this example in the news, it is.

  55. Re:Firefox's anti-* shouldn't be enabled by defaul by TheDarkener · · Score: 1

    *snip* ...and rewrites it if any of the other users change it back to what it "should" be. That fucks things up for *everyone*, which kind of defeats the whole idea of having separate user accounts that protect everyone from each other.

    I think you're misunderstanding the usage of FF's anti-phishing blacklists. Think of it as anti-virus definitions. You only need ONE copy. See http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/phishing-protection/ for more information. Downloading individual blacklists per-user would be like downloading anti-virus definitions per-user. Completely redundant.

    You also seemed to miss my point regarding places.sqlite - it stores user history, bookmarks, and other things. Think of what you could do with multi-user access to this information (provided the DB tables are secured properly) - shared history, shared bookmarks...Mmmm...that's music to any administrator's ears that wants to share information, in say, a school. Shared bookmarks for each class. Shared history so someone can just say "go to my history" for a website. How cool would that be?

    --
    It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
  56. Re:Firefox's anti-* shouldn't be enabled by defaul by Karellen · · Score: 1

    "Think of it as anti-virus definitions. You only need ONE copy."

    Yes, but how is that one copy updated? If it's not by a central daemon/service that runs even if no-one is logged in, then it has to be run by a user while they're running Firefox. If that is the case, that user needs write access to the shared database in order to write the updated definition. In which case, if you have a malicious user (or code running as a malicious user, thanks to a dancing bunnies error) who can write to the database, they can erase or alter the contents of the blacklist for everyone on the system.

    "You also seemed to miss my point regarding places.sqlite"

    Oh yeah, I did miss that bit. It is a pretty interesting idea, and could have the potential to be awesome.

    But you still don't need a MySQL server to do it. SQLite (at least according to the docs I've read) can support a single writer/multiple readers of the same DB. So even with SQLite, if each users' places.sqlite is writable by them but readable by everyone, then you should still be able to tell someone to see your bookmarks, and have Firefox automatically look in "/home/[user]/.mozilla/firefox/[salt].default/places.sqlite" (or the Windows equivalent) to find it.

    You can use all the standard file permissions that you'd need to use anyway to share other data between members of the same project/class/etc...

    --
    Why doesn't the gene pool have a life guard?
  57. Re:Trust by cerberusss · · Score: 1

    Actually, only the torso on which said boobies are attached. The rest of the body is not visible so we don't really know whether she's human or some alien race we haven't met before.

    --
    8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
  58. Re:Firefox's anti-* shouldn't be enabled by defaul by digitalchinky · · Score: 1

    Install proxy.
    Block: sb.google.com

    Problem solved. :-)

  59. Re:Firefox's anti-* shouldn't be enabled by defaul by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe a solution to the line overload would be using a caching Web Proxy in the middle, if not directly in the L

    My 2c

  60. Google 'accidentally' blocks Ad-blocking site.. by wellingtonsteve · · Score: 1

    ... yeah right

  61. Re:Trust by caluml · · Score: 1

    Hot Russian space-babe?