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Saudi Arabia Begins To Realize Supercomputer Ambitions

An anonymous reader writes "Saudi Arabia is building a supercomputer that could rank among the 10 most powerful systems in the world. And the country isn't stopping there. It has plans to turn this marquee system for the Middle East into a petascale system in two years, and, beyond that, an exascale system."

191 comments

  1. What does it run? by SL+Baur · · Score: 3, Informative

    TFA does not name the O/S it runs, though a linked article from TFA says the Iranian's supercomputer runs Linux.

    Inquiring minds want to know, I think.

    1. Re:What does it run? by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 3, Funny

      The article quotes on of the leads as saying that they have no legacy restrictions, so they are probably going to go with something very fast and very state of the art.

      IOW, ForthOS.

    2. Re:What does it run? by SL+Baur · · Score: 2, Informative

      I googled Blue Gene/P after posting that. It's from IBM, it's a supercomputer. Duh. What else would it be running?

      The article quotes on of the leads as saying that they have no legacy restrictions, so they are probably going to go with something very fast and very state of the art.

      From http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/21791.wss

      The Blue Gene supercomputer operating system is based on the open-source Linux operating system. Applications are written in common languages such as Fortran, C and C++ using standards-based MPI communications protocols. The Blue Gene/P supercomputer is compatible with the diverse applications currently running on the Blue Gene/L supercomputer, including leading research in physics, chemistry, biology, aerospace, astrophysics, genetics, materials science, cosmology and seismology.

    3. Re:What does it run? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Iranians are more likely to run any BSD-like OS, you know, they represent the axis of evil!

    4. Re:What does it run? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More importantly, why do they need it? They already have a time honored system for setting the price of oil.

    5. Re:What does it run? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought they needed the supercomputer because they had a license for Vista. Isnt that the recommended system requirement?

    6. Re:What does it run? by Adam+Hazzlebank · · Score: 1

      My understanding is that custom hardware supercomputers like BlueGene are generally moving away from operating systems and more toward compiling code that runs pretty much directly on the metal. The IO/head nodes runs Linux, the compute nodes run a minimal OS.

    7. Re:What does it run? by SL+Baur · · Score: 1

      My understanding is that custom hardware supercomputers like BlueGene are generally moving away from operating systems and more toward compiling code that runs pretty much directly on the metal.

      I am not an IBM employee, nor am I privvy to any IBM strategery, but ... I can reverse engineer the design decisions behind what I see their engineers posting to LKML.

      "Compute nodes" on a supercomputer do not need a "minimal O/S", they only need to be designated as such and then left alone when scheduling decisions are made. There are Linux kernel patches to do this; I'm not sure whether Linus has accepted them yet or not.

  2. "Marquee"? by goose-incarnated · · Score: 1

    Pun intended?

    --
    I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
  3. Obviously by nawcom · · Score: 0, Redundant

    this baby is gonna be powered by homosexual people and Saudi feminists running on giant hamster wheels. I'm not trying to be funny. I wouldn't be surprised one bit.

    1. Re:Obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      We should liberate Saudis too. Vote for McCain.

    2. Re:Obviously by shawn443 · · Score: 1

      At least not be funny with some standards.</br>
      <blink>this baby is gonna be powered by homosexual people and Saudi feminists running on giant hamster wheels.&nbsp;I'm not trying to be funny. I wouldn't be surprised one bit.</blink>

    3. Re:Obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am sure Saudis must be touched by your deep concern for their gays and their feminists.

    4. Re:Obviously by Caedes.Leighton · · Score: 0

      While the american supercomputers are run on homosexual people and immigrants on hamster wheels? And yes, I am trying to be funny.

  4. from TFA by goose-incarnated · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... will be located at King Abdullah University of Science and Technology (KAUST), a research university that was announced in 2007 and is due to open in a year from now ... "The best thing about KAUST is we have no legacy systems and no legacy thinking," Majid Al-Ghaslan, the university's interim CIO, told Computerworld.

    Kind of an odd way to run a research institution - research is all about legacy.

    --
    I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    1. Re:from TFA by raju1kabir · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Kind of an odd way to run a research institution - research is all about legacy.

      Not odd if you've ever been to a Saudi university. They'll spend millions on this so they can say they have it, then it'll just sit there using electricity and being used to play Tetris.

      --
      "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." -- GBS
    2. Re:from TFA by goose-incarnated · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I dunno, they seem quite genuine - TFA says it's to be used for:

      Al-Ghaslan said the system will be used by researchers for a wide range of computational work in life and physical sciences, as well as in high performance-computing research, to improve the performance of code on systems of this type.

      And all scientists but us computer geeks want tons of computational power - talk to any biologist or physicist and they always moan about how long their projects take. Every research institution should have access to a high-performance computing lab, so this is possibly a good thing.

      Although, bomb simulations also come under the heading of "research" ;-)

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    3. Re:from TFA by Da_Scotch · · Score: 1

      Totally agree. I've seen it happen befor in former comunist countries in East Europe and I have a very strong feeling the same thing will happen to the Saudi Supercomputer.

    4. Re:from TFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Computer geeks know how to code and don't need big computers.
      Biologist and physicist don't know how to code and need big computers.

      Coincidence? I think not.

    5. Re:from TFA by laddiebuck · · Score: 1

      Those countries have an extremely strong computational and intellectual legacy. Don't knock them. Saudi Arabia is completely different.

    6. Re:from TFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think he was possibly going for "we're going for cutting edge research and cutting edge research systems".
      Either way, it's interesting ambition - and it's a rich country, so I'm sure they're fairly well equipped to do efficient research.

    7. Re:from TFA by Profane+MuthaFucka · · Score: 5, Funny

      Step up one level. You'll find two princes who both have the same fastest cars in the world, the two fastest race horses in the world, the two largest private jet aircraft in the world, and the largest palaces in the world.

      It's just the next competition.
      Prince A: "My research lab has 1000 scientists!"
      Prince B: "Oh Yea? Well I have 1000 scientists and I'm hiring 10 more next week."
      Observer: "What are they working on?"
      Prince A&B: "Mine's bigger!"

      --
      Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
    8. Re:from TFA by johndmartiniii · · Score: 1

      Ditto. It's the same in Egypt right now. Organizations and institutions here spend billions to keep up with the neighbors as far as just having shiny, good-looking new things, but its all for show. One university here just moved its whole campus, which is now filled with students, faculty and nothing works. It looks pretty, but there are no science labs, no public computing spaces, student services are a joke, the phones don't work half the time, the internet is dodgy at best, half of the buildings are vacant/incomplete. But it's new! It's pretty! And we've got it.

      --
      If you don't know what you're doing, you can't make mistakes.
    9. Re:from TFA by belmolis · · Score: 2, Informative

      You forgot to mention the really crucial point: there are no women.

    10. Re:from TFA by belmolis · · Score: 2, Informative

      Oops, I think I wasn't clear. I meant the Saudi University. In Egypt, there are women.

    11. Re:from TFA by Entropius · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Except many computational physicists do in fact know how to code, and their stuff still requires big computers.

      What do you think they're doing, running COBOL on them? The lattice QCD code that I've seen is all in C. (Maybe you can teach them how to code? It's GPL, after all...)

      There are legitimate scientific uses of that many cycles.

    12. Re:from TFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kind of an odd way to run a research institution - research is all about legacy.

      A conservative opinion pushes conservative models. You blew my mind.

    13. Re:from TFA by Da_Scotch · · Score: 1

      Maybe some of them. I am born and raised in Romania and I've seen first hand a similar project: the state university bought a few million dollar server from Sun - they put it in some place and they let it rot in there. There were a few guys who leaarned programming and Unix on it, but other than this... nothing. They could do that on a few workstations. It was supposed to be the core of the Romanian research with scientists loggin in from all over the country: at first they did login, the brave ones even issued some ls or ps commands and then they didn't know what else to do... It could be the same with the Saudis, because if you don't have any tradition with computing you tend to look at it and scratch your head....

    14. Re:from TFA by laddiebuck · · Score: 1

      OK. I'll admit I have no firsthand experience of Romania. I'm Hungarian, and I do know that the Hungarian and Russian traditions are very strong.

      I do agree with what you said though -- in Saudi Arabia it will probably gather dust.

    15. Re:from TFA by laejoh · · Score: 0, Funny

      Ibn Tufnel: The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and...

      Abdul Al-DiBergi: Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten?

      Ibn Tufnel: Exactly.

      Abdul Al-DiBergi: Does that mean it's louder? Is it any louder?

      Ibn Tufnel: Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?

      Abdul Al-DiBergi: I don't know.

      Ibn Tufnel: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?

      Abdul Al-DiBergi: Put it up to eleven.

      Ibn Tufnel: Eleven. Exactly. One louder.

      Abdul Al-DiBergi: Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder?

      Ibn Tufnel: [pause] These go to eleven.

    16. Re:from TFA by mapkinase · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Don't you think you are reading too much into this statement? It surely does not mean that they did not study previous research, only that since previous research has not been carried in a particular institution they do not have psychological inhibitions of overcoming bad legacy.

      The fact that Newton who said famously Pigmaei gigantum humeris impositi plusquam ipsi gigantes vident did not stand on the shoulders of his biological father, does not mean he did not stand on the shoulders of his scientific fathers.

      --
      I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    17. Re:from TFA by mapkinase · · Score: 1

      It does not matter what the intention was of the government to build "shiny new" facilities, many researchers in those institutions benefited from those facilities and most importantly made contribution to the science.

      What's w/ all bashing today?

      --
      I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    18. Re:from TFA by mr.witherspoone · · Score: 2, Funny

      A supercomputing center with no women? It's the same in the US!

    19. Re:from TFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kind of an odd way to run a research institution - research is all about legacy.

      Not odd if you've ever been to a Saudi university. They'll spend millions on this so they can say they have it, then it'll just sit there using electricity and being used to play Tetris.

      are you sure you haven't mistaken Saudi university for Kuwait's university? :P

    20. Re:from TFA by zoefff · · Score: 1

      and, boy, are they friendly to women in Egypt...

    21. Re:from TFA by houghi · · Score: 2, Funny

      I thought you were talking about /.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    22. Re:from TFA by Otter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A number of different factors are required for successful research, and the Saudis and neighbors have no interest in any that can't be accomplished solely by writing a check. As others are saying, this is absolutely typical of them.

    23. Re:from TFA by goose-incarnated · · Score: 1

      A number of different factors are required for successful research, and the Saudis and neighbors have no interest in any that can't be accomplished solely by writing a check.

      The biggest thing required for research is the cheque. Trust me on this :-)

      When friends and family ask me "Why do you guys do research anyway", I confidently answer "To get more funds" :-)

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    24. Re:from TFA by daveime · · Score: 1

      They like cutting edges in Saudi ...

    25. Re:from TFA by Otter · · Score: 1

      I'm a researcher too, and we both know the difference between joking like that and seriously pursuing it as an administrative policy.

    26. Re:from TFA by TheMidnight · · Score: 1

      I was Hungarian, then I ate lunch.

      Seriously though, isn't this in the tradition of the UAE where they don't know what to do with all the oil money and just try to buy the biggest skyscraper in the world?

    27. Re:from TFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not quite.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Saudi_Arabia

      The Last census showed that 50% of Saudi male students go to college after high school and that 60% of female students go to college after high school.

    28. Re:from TFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      So, no women and all the real work is done by guys from India.

      This differs from the average IT shop how?

    29. Re:from TFA by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I have no firsthand experience of Romania. I'm Hungarian, and I do know that the Hungarian and Russian traditions are very strong.

      So it's only the Polacks that are stupid?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    30. Re:from TFA by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      It's the same in Egypt right now. Organizations and institutions here spend billions to keep up with the neighbors as far as just having shiny, good-looking new things, but its all for show

      Of course they won't admit to that, ever.

      See, they're all in de nile.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    31. Re:from TFA by ksheff · · Score: 1

      counting their money and keeping track of their toys, of course.

      --
      the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
    32. Re:from TFA by ksheff · · Score: 1

      I guess some of the guys that I knew didn't view it that way. Obtaining the funds was what they did for work. The research was the hobby the funds enabled them to pursue.

      --
      the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
    33. Re:from TFA by CapitanMutanda · · Score: 1

      You can start by googling Elbrus or BESM and see that russians had real shitty hw but the knowhow was there http://mailcom.com/besm6/index_ru.shtml http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbrus_(computer)

    34. Re:from TFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not so much the language as the coding patterns and algorithms. For example:

      - using a hash_map instead of doing a linear search in an array,
      - using an O(n*log(n)) sorting algorithm instead of O(n^2),
      - moving expensive computation that doesn't depend on the index of a for-loop *outside* of the for-loop.

      Not only do many computational scientists not know these solutions, they can't even see that a problem exists.

  5. Re:Simulating... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    What would Muslims need a supercomputer to simulate?

    I would think it would be more for the oil industry.

    http://www.epcc.ed.ac.uk/news/press-releases/two-award-nominations-for-scottish-supercomputer

    http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,2090687,00.htm

    http://www.hpcwire.com/industry/oilandgas/Worlds_10th_Fastest_Supercomputer_Helps_Find_Oil_and_Gas.html

  6. Supercomputing's Top Systems by sleeponthemic · · Score: 1

    Right up there with world's tallest building. Even for a geek this list holds very little interest.

    --
    I record my sleeptalking
    1. Re:Supercomputing's Top Systems by edalytical · · Score: 1

      I disagree. While building a taller building has no real benefit, that is there is no reason not to build a wide building or gasp multiple buildings. (Honestly I'd be more impressed with safer buildings). Supercomputing does have benefits, the faster you can do calculations the better for many scientific problems. While I don't really care who has the fastest supercomputer, advances in supercomputing are welcomed achievements and I applaud those that put the work into progressing the field. I wish my school could get funding for something like this.

      --
      Win a signed Stephen Carpenter ESP Guitar from the Deftones: http://def-tag.com/?r=0008781
    2. Re:Supercomputing's Top Systems by raju1kabir · · Score: 2, Insightful

      building a taller building has no real benefit, that is there is no reason not to build a wide building

      There is, if you like windows.

      --
      "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." -- GBS
    3. Re:Supercomputing's Top Systems by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 1

      building a taller building has no real benefit, that is there is no reason not to build a wide building

      There is, if you like windows.

      Uh...

    4. Re:Supercomputing's Top Systems by stjobe · · Score: 1

      Building the world's largest building has several important benefits:
      1. It's a statement of superiority (why did you build that building? Because we CAN, and you CAN'T.)
      2. It facilitates development in a number of related fields (construction, materials science etc)
      3. It encourages national pride and a spirit of can-do in most areas of society.

      IMO, the day we stopped building the tallest buildings is the day we started to fall behind.

      --
      "Total destruction the only solution" - Bob Marley
    5. Re:Supercomputing's Top Systems by raju1kabir · · Score: 1

      Building the world's largest building has several important benefits:
      1. It's a statement of superiority (why did you build that building? Because we CAN, and you CAN'T.)
      2. It facilitates development in a number of related fields (construction, materials science etc)
      3. It encourages national pride and a spirit of can-do in most areas of society.
      IMO, the day we stopped building the tallest buildings is the day we started to fall behind.

      Here in Malaysia we had the world's tallest buildings for a while. I think it only had benefit #1 - and only until someone else built a taller one, which didn't take that long. The towers here were built by Korean engineering firms, which gained benefits #2 and #3. In the same way that not many countries have the wherewithal to build the world's tallest buildings on their own, I don't think many would have the ability to develop record-breaking supercomputers from scratch. So again it really comes down to the nyah-nyah factor, and proof of having at least briefly had a lot of money to spend (or good credit).

      --
      "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." -- GBS
    6. Re:Supercomputing's Top Systems by tempestdata · · Score: 1

      A Link to some info about Burj Dubai. The tallest man made structure ever built.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burj_dubai

      See where the architects are from? The contractors? Structural Engineers? Dubai's ONLY contribution to this feat of engineering is money.

      --
      - Tempestdata
  7. Re:Simulating... by siddesu · · Score: 1

    they have to respond to Iran's nukular ambitions somehow, don't they?

    since live testing is kinda out of question for the moment, they can just buy the simulation software as well.

    come next year, it may be pretty cheap ;)

  8. There are better uses for their money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Having been there a few times, I would suggest they use that money to buy some bars of soap for the population. Those who've been there will know what I mean.

  9. Too bad they didn't address the basics first by iamacat · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Like letting women drive and hold jobs, or letting men listen to music. The only purpose of a country is to treat its citizens right, and technological achievements do not mean zip if they are not applied for that purpose.

    1. Re:Too bad they didn't address the basics first by mazarin5 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Maybe they'll run some simulations to see how that pans out :)

      --
      Fnord.
    2. Re:Too bad they didn't address the basics first by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

      The only purpose of a country is to treat its citizens right

      Um... Most countries came about because one particularly bloody family killed off all their competition and expanded into their territory.

      I suggest you take a short look at world history.

       

      --
      Deleted
    3. Re:Too bad they didn't address the basics first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hm... interesting point, and you are who?

    4. Re:Too bad they didn't address the basics first by kitsunewarlock · · Score: 1

      Actually, the primary purpose of a community or country is to secure the safety of citizens and their possessions. Everything else evolved from whiners.

      --
      Ginga no Rekshiya Mata Each page.
    5. Re:Too bad they didn't address the basics first by Fumus · · Score: 1

      I'm not wanting to flame, but just think about it for a second.
      It's their religion and their country. Using a slightly less controversial topic:
      If you didn't eat pork because you think it's unclean, would you give a rat's ass about all those crazy people eating it and trying to force it down your throat?

      It's all fun and games, until someone starts a religious war.

    6. Re:Too bad they didn't address the basics first by tgd · · Score: 1

      Um, historically the only purpose of a country is to organize the peasants under some rich and powerful leader, and to provide some convenient way to refer to groups of them in aggregate. Its all about who is paying taxes to whom.

      Taking your narrow twisted viewpoint, by that measure technology exists to increase productivity and thus taxes collected and to ensure your taxpayers keep paying taxes to you, not your enemy.

    7. Re:Too bad they didn't address the basics first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go to hell, feminist.

    8. Re:Too bad they didn't address the basics first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hear they're going to use it to calculate how the brains of a mr. Michael Jackson, that lives in nearby country UAE, works out..

      Maybe they'll be able to calculate up if he's really Black or White..

    9. Re:Too bad they didn't address the basics first by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      I don't care if people don't eat pork. I care if they refuse to let their neighbors who like pork eat pork.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    10. Re:Too bad they didn't address the basics first by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      How they originally came about has very little relation to their current function.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  10. Search for the hidden peace message by jarek · · Score: 0, Troll

    Obviously, Saudi Arabia are feeling the pressure and have decided to use super-computer to find the peaceful verses in the quran, just to prove the so called islamists wrong. I wish them success.

    1. Re:Search for the hidden peace message by kj_kabaje · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So the majority of /. mods today find bigoted statements just fine. Lovely.

    2. Re:Search for the hidden peace message by elrous0 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      There is always at least a kernal or truth to every bigoted joke, whether you PC types want to admit it or not.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    3. Re:Search for the hidden peace message by mrops · · Score: 1

      I don't find anything funny in this statement. Not sure if everyone has karma to burn or what, how come this comment got +4 Funny!

      There are a substantial amount of Muslim's in the IT world who visit slashdot, myself included. And how the hell a country of 20 million Muslim represent 1.6 billion Muslims is beyond me!

      There are 53 million muslim's in europe alone, a majority of them would be a more preferable example of Muslim's.

      Few border line terrorist creating stereotypes and a few border line folks from the west creating stereotypes, screwing up things for the rest.

    4. Re:Search for the hidden peace message by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I grinned.

    5. Re:Search for the hidden peace message by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      Disagreeing about the content of a book doesn't make one a bigot. If I say the bible is a fairy tale of an evil deranged megalomaniac god, that's simply a literary review. If I say Christians are all evil deranged megalomaniacs, then that's bigoted.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    6. Re:Search for the hidden peace message by dbrutus · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, the Saudis pay for a lot of mosques and imams and they have an outsized influence due to their control of the haj. Most people don't understand that US Islam is tremendously penetrated by Saudi financing as is Islam in many other countries. Cut the purse strings loose and you'll likely lose the associations.

      It's not irrational to conclude that he who pays the piper calls the tune and the Saudis have been paying for a lot of pipers.

  11. Culture by dotslashdot · · Score: 0

    But will they unVEIL it to sharia it with the rest of the world? Only if they replace their shoes with BURQAnstocks to save the souls of their feet.

    1. Re:Culture by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 2, Informative

      WTF? Did you actually think that was worth posting?

      I appreciate the diversity of thought and opinion here at Slashdot, and I encourage people of all stripes to post here. But that post was just retarded.

    2. Re:Culture by raju1kabir · · Score: 1

      That's putting it kindly.

      --
      "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." -- GBS
    3. Re:Culture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And using the word 'retarded' is OK as well? If you are worried about being politically correct at least TRY to stay consistent.

      Kettle calls pot black.

  12. Re:Simulating... by Chrisq · · Score: 3, Funny
  13. I once sold softwar to Saudi Arabia by viking80 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The software was a big mess: A hospital management system (basically an accounting package) written in FORTRAN!.

    It had evolved over decades. It was pretty much unsupportable, but we had the old developers in-house, so they were able to solve the weird bugs usually.

    To our surprise, they did not want the regular compiled version with customer support. They just wanted the source code.

    We told them that the source code was not for sale. It was also too embarrassing to release.

    They then put an enormous amount of money on the table, and promised to keep it in house.

    We said OK, and expected a lot of support calls at least for them to compile and install the system.

    We never heard from them again. Ever.

    Best sale ever.

    Maybe IBM has entered into the same kind of deal. Would be great to get a follow up in a few years to see how this computer is being used.

    --
    don't cut it off www.mgmbill.org
    1. Re:I once sold softwar to Saudi Arabia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pah, everyone's sold soft war to Saudi Arabia, you're not a real man until you've sold them some hard war nukes!

    2. Re:I once sold softwar to Saudi Arabia by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      An oil-rich fool and his money are soon parted.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    3. Re:I once sold softwar to Saudi Arabia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's because the intelligent wealthy in the mid east have either moved overseas, or joined up with terrorists.

      being royalty in the mid east requires the ability to survive assassins and terrorists and minor wars, which obviously leaves them with very little time to really think about how they are living. mid east nations that got their riches in trade and tourism instead of oil tend to have less problems with terrorists and have more intelligent and capable people working in various industries, but the oil rich nations are just survivalists,

      remember for that past 78 years the americans and europeans and for the past 30 or so years the asians have been doing everything in their power to consume as much fossil fuels creating a consumerist economy so that people can have jobs... and for this to work energy had to be as cheap as possible, which involved significant covert ops and the exploitation of poor people around the world by taking away their land with natural resources and then polluting their rivers and air to get the 'good' stuff like gold, tin, platinum, diamonds and gemstones. and now even uranium containing materials.

      so like i said people of intelligence found ways to escape oil rich nations, or joined terrorist groups out of hatred for what the 'rich' nations of the world were doing to the rest of the world all for what? barbie dolls and fast food? well, the challenge for human civilization is ultimately the same one that brought down the roman empire. how do you balance basic needs vs limited resources, vs people becoming lazy and dependent upon the labor of the poor/slave cast.

    4. Re:I once sold softwar to Saudi Arabia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they'll use the super computer to find more oil.

    5. Re:I once sold softwar to Saudi Arabia by ksheff · · Score: 1

      FORTRAN for an accounting system? I would have expected COBOL, but FORTRAN?

      --
      the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
    6. Re:I once sold softwar to Saudi Arabia by PingPongBoy · · Score: 1

      The software was a big mess: A hospital management system (basically an accounting package) written in FORTRAN!.

      It had evolved over decades. It was pretty much unsupportable, but we had the old developers in-house, so they were able to solve the weird bugs usually.

      To our surprise, they did not want the regular compiled version with customer support. They just wanted the source code.

      We told them that the source code was not for sale. It was also too embarrassing to release.

      They then put an enormous amount of money on the table, and promised to keep it in house.

      Stranger than fiction. With that much will to spend and that much tolerance for crap, especially when it would have probably been cheaper to just hire a couple of people and let them start from scratch, it seems they could have shopped around, probably did, and no one else was biting, for even more money. They scraped the bottom of the barrel. Is it naivite or laziness in shopping? I suppose no one else would trust them with the source code (but maybe they just liked a certain feature set in the program).

      --
      Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
  14. At least it does something for secular education by Animats · · Score: 5, Informative

    In some ways, it's encouraging. Until recently, 90% of the advanced degrees awarded in Saudi universities are in "religious studies". Most useful work is done by foreigners, and the country has a 25-30% youth unemployment rate. About four years ago, King Abdullah decided to throw money at the problem. KAUST is part of this. The university is still being built and has no students yet; opening is scheduled for September 2009. It's a graduate school only, and is intended to have about 275 faculty members. Faculty will not be tenured; they'll be contract employees.

    Presumably somebody thought that having a big supercomputer would help with recruiting or image. There are no research programs underway yet to use it. The logical application for that would be seismic processing for oil exploration, a classic supercomputer application, but that's moving to GPUs.

  15. neurosys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    /me puts aside all biases and slow-claps in awe.

    "...Sweeeet...."

  16. Re:Simulating... by cyhiz · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    nope... i just laugh your stupid opinion... :))

  17. Considering the state of Saudi Arabia... by Zombie+Ryushu · · Score: 0, Troll

    Would it not be better to send them SkyNet, a few hundred T-800 Endoskeletons? You know, the kind with the plasma cannons that shoot at anything that moves?

  18. Re:Simulating... by grajzor · · Score: 1

    What, because he didn't jump the gun and demanded another war in the middle east? Go figure!

  19. Yeah, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    is it Sharia compliant?

  20. exascale supercomputer? what for? by v4vijayakumar · · Score: 3, Funny

    to do alternate energy researches..? ;)

    1. Re:exascale supercomputer? what for? by magus_melchior · · Score: 1

      You know, given the reports that their oil reserves are running low, that would be an ingenious way to use their massive wealth and gain a leg up on the US.

      --
      "We are Microsoft. You shall be assimilated. Competition is futile."
  21. Re:Simulating... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why do you hate America?

    Hmmm. Epic lulz, from the epic trulz.

    Welcome to Slashdot ladies and gentlemen, where truth is stranger than fiction. Except for the idle section of course. That's where truth is exposed as being utterly boring.

    Me? I'm waiting for idol.slashdot.org -- so we can keep up with Pop/American Idol. And you'd best put the British version up too; remember who thought up the show in the first place, you teabags!

    (shit, did I just admit that the greatest thing to come out of Britain in the last few years is Pop Idol? Oh well, at least they haven't found out who thought up Big Brother and Who Wants to be a Millionaire tee hee!)

  22. Re:At least it does something for secular educatio by belmolis · · Score: 1

    What I've heard from Saudis who have returned to Saudi Arabia after grad school abroad is that it is almost impossible to do much research because their family obligations are so time-consuming.

  23. Re:Simulating... by pisto_grih · · Score: 0

    Big Brother was thought up by the Dutch.

  24. Re:Simulating... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Liberals get tired of hating Republicans, so they switch gears and turn to hating America...

  25. Re:Simulating... by mavrsus · · Score: 2

    No wonder, soulless people without anything sacred...and I thought it was americans who came up with it...

  26. Oh no! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh no! How DARE they compete with us - they're obviously all just terrorists who're trying to topple the USA from its rightful, God(tm)-given #1 spot.

  27. Re:I once sold software to Saudi Arabia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    At one of the conferences I attended here in Beirut, the chair of the department of pathology at King Faisal Specialist Hospital and Research Center, Riyadh (I think his name was Fouad Al Dayel) one of the top SA hospitals was asked about their hospital system and how much it costs. He answered without a blink, Cerner for $ 50 Mil.

    I then noticed that these people would never accept to fund research for any software development in SA or other universities; if they pay a couple a mil per yr, they may have something at least for the smaller hospitals few yrs later.

    Almost all Arab countries (especially the oil rich ones) are only consumers. They even refuse to invest in anything other than their luxury and BIGGER stuff...

    Off this topic, what worries me is that with this oil price surge the money donated by the gov and by individuals for religious stuff- Zakat (religious i.e. including "fundamentalists = terrorism") will increase exponentially.

  28. Just plug in the Ka'bha by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

    They still haven't figured out that the Ka'bha is really the biggest Connection Machine ever built.
    They just need to pug it in and all the LEDs will light up!

    --
    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  29. Re:Simulating... by apathy+maybe · · Score: 1

    Big Brother is Dutch. Just so you know.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Brother_(TV_series)

    --
    I wank in the shower.
  30. TFA has incorrect info by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The current fastest machine is not at Lawrence Livermore. The machine the article incorrectly cites is Roadrunner at Los Alamos National Lab.

  31. Re:At least it does something for secular educatio by Yvanhoe · · Score: 2, Informative

    Note that this one rare country in the world where unemployement is not a problem : it just mean you don't work. In this country, citizens don't pay taxes but get a part of the petroleum money. They have, in fact, negative taxes. So, not working is possible and done by many people.

    --
    The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
  32. Re:Simulating... by OeLeWaPpErKe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But this is their typical reaction. They buy something expensive, that looks good. Then they let it rot.

    A fool and his money ...

  33. Amazed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I am amazed to see this coming out from Saudi Arabia...
            I am also amazed to see slashdot to put a terrorism tag with an academic endeavour...
                On one side we put blame on saudis, about not having simple human rights. (like women can't drive cars etc).}
            But are we any better than saudi govt. by labeling an educational activity as terrorism?

    1. Re:Amazed! by raju1kabir · · Score: 1

      But are we any better than saudi govt. by labeling an educational activity as terrorism?

      You pose a deep and profound question that may well shake the cultural gap between east and west to its very foundations.

      But upon reflection, yes, I think there might be a small difference between systematically denying human rights to millions of people for generations... and sticking a flip one-word tag on a Slashdot story.

      --
      "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." -- GBS
  34. Re:Simulating... by oldhack · · Score: 1

    But they seem to have brains. Makes you jealous, don't they?

    --
    Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
  35. NUKE 'EM, NUKE 'EM FOREVER (in 3-D) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Good game. One of my favorites, though I only ever played it a few times. So DIVERSE, and new.

  36. Underground Supercomputer by squoozer · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When I think about Saudi Arabia though one of the first things that comes to mind is that it's very hot. Building a super computer in a hot country must be quite a challenge from a cooling point of view.

    I was wondering was if anyone has considered building a supercomputer in an underground cavern. They are, after all, naturally pretty cool. You would still need cooling to keep it that way but you would be sheilded from the worst of the sun.

    --
    I used to have a better sig but it broke.
    1. Re:Underground Supercomputer by bemo56 · · Score: 0

      Underground cabins are also damp, which requires heating to prevent condensation. Almost a no win situation :P

    2. Re:Underground Supercomputer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I have heard that past a certain depth, the temperature under earth is constant all around the globe. For northen countries, is is something like 3 feet (1m.) under the permafrost layer (I could be wrong on the exact numbers though). That temperature happens to be the best to keep wine for a long time without degradation or altering the aging process;-)

      I don't know how that fact holds for warm or hot countries, and if thge type of soil (earth, rock, sand, etc.) affects the depth or tempearature but it could definitly help.

      This becomes irrelevent anyways because they can just spend enourmous amounts of cash on a cooling system.

    3. Re:Underground Supercomputer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's actually not too far from what's done here already, at least for the really big Big Iron setups.

      I haven't been there myself, but the mainframes and supercomputer rigs in King Saud University are housed two floors underground. Over a facility roughly 20,000ft square. Very, very well insulated, and with a very robust HVAC system.

    4. Re:Underground Supercomputer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I think about Saudi Arabia though one of the first things that comes to mind is that it's very hot. Building a super computer in a hot country must be quite a challenge from a cooling point of view.

      I was wondering was if anyone has considered building a supercomputer in an underground cavern. They are, after all, naturally pretty cool. You would still need cooling to keep it that way but you would be sheilded from the worst of the sun.

      Money doesn't matter. They'll pay for cooling. There's an indoor ski resort in the UAE. Ski Dubai

  37. Re:Simulating... by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What would Muslims need a supercomputer to simulate?

    Lol! Shows what you know.

    Those bomb simulations you linked to are not about making bombs - they are about being able to avoid live tests of current stocks. I.E. they don't really simulate explosions of different bomb desings, they simulate the effect of time passing on the stockpiles of bombs that the US already has.

    Without the big computers they would need to explode a bomb or two every couple of years in order to verify that the remaining warheads are still functional and within specifications, which is not only nasty business in general, but would be a violation of international treaties. These supercomputers were actually a key part of the passage of those treaties back in 1992.

    Besides, you don't need a supercomputer to design a bomb, the first few were done with pencil and paper after all.

    --
    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  38. Re:At least it does something for secular educatio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No tenure? In a heavily religious state, that's a deeply bad sign, and one that makes it pretty clear they're not committed to research and education.

  39. Perhaps they could work on the bible next then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess they could parse the Bible next to find the nice bits amongst all the scary messed up sections in that crazy book. Maybe point the research outcomes at the Christians to stop another crusade...

    1. Re:Perhaps they could work on the bible next then? by dbrutus · · Score: 1

      The crusades, every one of them, were defensive wars to recover lands invaded by muslims. Stopping crusades is easy, stop invading christian lands.

  40. Is there a lawyer in the house? by plasmacutter · · Score: 1

    I distinctly remember hearing, from what at the time seemed a credible source, about a national security related trade regulation which made the export of game consoles to certain nations illegal because the computing technology within could (in the legislators' irrational minds) be used in missile guidance systems.

    Can I get a confirm or deny on this one?

    If I wasn't just hearing fud, does this mean we're allowed to send PS3's there now?

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
    1. Re:Is there a lawyer in the house? by AlecC · · Score: 1

      I recall having to work out a complicated formula to show that the very ordinary CPU in a product we were about to ship was under some critical limit for export. Civil servants work on a much slower timescale than Moore's law, so it would not surprise me at all if a latest-generation console had more bogomips than some arbitrary level set, say, eight years ago. The Cell processors in the PS3 amount to an impressive amount of crunch - some universities have already been linking them for DIY supercomputers.

      But that is Moore's law for you. I was recently looking up a cheap microcomputer for a simple job. The one I found cost $3 in quantity, and is more powerful than computers costing many tens of thousands that I worked on thirty years ago.

      --
      Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
    2. Re:Is there a lawyer in the house? by mikael · · Score: 1

      Sony's High-Tech Playstation2 Will Require Military Export License

      Sony's PlayStation2 may be more than just a toy.

      Japan's Trade Ministry will require special permits to export the new, hot-selling game after labeling it a device that can be adapted for military use, the Mainichi newspaper reported Sunday.

      Parts of the machine resemble a small supercomputer in their ability to process high-quality images quickly-a characteristic of missile guidance systems, according to another newspaper, Asahi.

      Trade Ministry officials were not available to comment Sunday, but Sony spokesman Kenichi Fukunaga confirmed that special export regulations had been imposed on the game, which is due to hit U.S. and European markets this fall. He declined to comment on the reported military applications.

      Under Japanese export and trade law, those who wish to export more than $472 worth of products that can be used for military purposes must get a license from the Trade Ministry, the Mainichi said.

      Given PlayStation2's $376 price tag, anybody wishing to ship or carry more than one machine out of Japan would first have to obtain special government permission. Failure to do so could result in a maximum five-year prison sentence or a $18,900 fine, the Asahi said.

      Fukunaga said that the company expects to receive an export permit to market the PlayStation2 machines, 1.4 million of which have been sold in Japan since it debuted there in March.

      He added that other Sony products have in the past come under the export control law for goods that have potential military uses.

      The PlayStation2 can carry four times as much information as the original PlayStation system, which was released in 1994. The console has stereo-quality sound and vivid graphics and can connect the user to the Internet.

      Missile-guidance systems typically consist of a missile-mounted camera that transmits images to a remote firing station, where an operator can send signals to adjust the rocket's trajectory. Officials are apparently concerned about rogue states that have military hardware but lack the sophisticated technological components.

      Fukunaga said government regulation will do little to hinder already intense competition among game makers to produce more powerful machines.

      "The technology in this machine is at the cutting edge, but the competition is catching up, so the regulations will eventually have to be reviewed," Fukunaga said.

      Sony rival Sega Enterprises launched its Dreamcast game console with Internet access last year. Nintendo Co., maker of N64 and the portable Game Boy, will release its new machine this year.

      Meanwhile, Microsoft Corp. plans to introduce its own video game machine, the X-Box, in late 2001.

      Sony owns about 60% of the game-machine market in the United States and Japan.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
  41. Working in the above mentioned place.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Posting Anonymously for obvious reasons.

    Actually this is quite a late realization. They have known that for a fact for the past few years but cared less to get into a competition. The computers are used for Oil reservoir simulation (predicting fluid flow and oil in place, production/injection rates over time), and their simulator is one of the best in the industry besides Schlumberger's "Eclipse", which it's based on scientifically, and is considered to be an industry standard.

    They dont only stop there, also "Visualization Clusters" perform parallel graphics rendering (thats what I do actually) due to the enormous amounts of data needed to be displayed on multiple screens. I also know for a fact that there is not a single country in the middle east besides KSA that has such technology (Do not know about Iran, but thats not ME anyway, or is it?)

    There are other applications running on SEVERAL clusters.

    KAUST which is mentioned in the article is actually overlooked by the national oil company Saudi Aramco (which has all the clusters I am talking about)

    P.S. I am not Saudi, but I do have the pleasure to be working with them on this technology, and I am telling you they have some of the best minds on the planet.

    1. Re:Working in the above mentioned place.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      P.S. I am not Saudi, but I do have the pleasure to be working with them on this technology, and I am telling you they have some of the best minds on the planet.

      Which are foreigners and contract employees :D

    2. Re:Working in the above mentioned place.. by SteelAngel · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      P.S. I am not Saudi, but I do have the pleasure to be working with them on this technology, and I am telling you they have some of the best minds on the planet.

      Which are foreigners and contract employees :D

      Quoted for truth. Native Saudis are not known for their intellectual rigor among the professoriate.

    3. Re:Working in the above mentioned place.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I confirm this. ARAMCO hires the best people in the industry and they do ALL of their work ie exploration to production and leave only the menial of jobs to large service companies like Halliburton and Schulmberger.

      But considering that oil is their lifeline I am not surprised.

    4. Re:Working in the above mentioned place.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was true in the past. For the past few years, the have educated a selected few and sent them on scholarships all over the world for their PHD's and masters.

      I would like to confirm though, that despite the fact that they do have the best educational qualifications, they lack vision and innovation.

      That said, you have to realize that they were smart enough to spend money on a top notch platform, and realize that it needs top notch ppl to utilize, and hired them, i.e. they realized that their experience is not mature enough to fully utilize this, which is smart by itself.

    5. Re:Working in the above mentioned place.. by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      The computers are used for Oil reservoir simulation ... they have some of the best minds on the planet

      Too bad those minds are not used for improving solar panels etc.
             

    6. Re:Working in the above mentioned place.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for providing the first informed post (that I noticed, at least). It was starting to look like FARK in here.

  42. Re:Simulating... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Spoiler alert!
    The "House of Saud" are *NOT* real Muslims. Have you not been paying attention?

  43. Re:Simulating... by boltik · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    What would Muslims need a supercomputer to simulate?

    They don't need to simulate nothing. They dig a hole in the ground, and get all the money they need (actually, much more than they need) from that hole. If they decided to have a nuke - they not going to "simulate" it, they buy equipment that produce it, and they buy professionals to operate it. For example , Iran decided to have a nuclear bomb (Syria did too, but we safe for now, thanks to Israely Air Force). When they want to use the bomb - they will send suicide bomber (i apologize , i meant to say "martyr") to bring it to the target, and press the switch to activate it. They don't need a supercomputer for that. They want to own super computer because they want to be like everybody else (or bigger). Europian countryes have a super computers. America have super computers. Asian coutries have them. Israel have super computers. Arabs don't have one. Well, soon they will. They maybe don't have anything usefull to do with "one of the 10 most powerful systems in the world", but they can afford it together with "some of the best minds on the planet" to operate it . I personaly think that "one of the best minds" that choose to stay idle in exchange for bigger income is not really "best mind", but that is an opinion of some guy who can't afford a Rolls-Royce.

  44. Actually, it wasn't a game as such... by Moraelin · · Score: 5, Funny

    Actually, it wasn't a game as such. See, one of the Saudi princes got taunted about his 3DMark scores once too often, by someone with an overclocked compressor-cooled 2x6 core Dual Xeon 7460 system with 3x nVidia GTX 280 SLI.

    And as everyone(*) knows, your 3DMark score is not just the measure of your worth, but verily an accurate measure of penis size. In fact, they're in a feedback loop. It's true. If you fall out of the top 10, your Y chromosomes will spread their legs and go, "fuck, we were X all along". And the Penis Police will show up at your door with a rusty hedge scissors and revoke your right to pee standing. It's no laughing matter.

    And, well, the royal family represents the whole country and people. The collective penis of the whole Saudi Arabia could be at stake, because someone didn't upgrade their machine to beat the best score. And the last thing you want as a ruling dynasty is to wake up one morning and find a mob of former men in front of the palace gates, wanting to beat you up with their handbags for what junior's lame machine did to them. You really don't want to go down in history as that kind of a ruling family.

    So, anyway, it started kinda innocent enough. You know, _quad_ 6-core Xeons, liquid nitrogen cooling, stuff like that. But then they hired a consultant for the rest of the spec and it kinda snowballed from there ;)

    (*) ... who wastes their time willy-waving about their system on those boards

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  45. Yeah by MyLongNickName · · Score: 1

    So, IBM is building it, but Saudi Arabia is "building it" according to the article summary. Hey guys, I built a gray minivan. By build, I mean I went to the dealership and bought it.

    --
    See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
    1. Re:Yeah by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Hey, I built my house. By built I mean I hired some guys to build it to my specifications.

      Buildings, large ships and supercomputers are commonly referred to that way.

    2. Re:Yeah by smithmc · · Score: 1

      Hey, I built my house. By built I mean I hired some guys to build it to my specifications.

      Buildings, large ships and supercomputers are commonly referred to that way.

      By "specifications" did you mean "I want to have the biggest house in all the desert!"?

      --
      Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
    3. Re:Yeah by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Nah. The desert is for losers. I've always wanted to live on an island. There weren't any around though, so I had to build one. Then I built a couple hundred for my friends when they stay over. For kicks I made the whole thing look like a map of the planet.

  46. Re:At least it does something for secular educatio by bockelboy · · Score: 1

    In the industry, you see similar ambitions usually followed by failure.

    The truth is, you can't just buy a honking computer and declare "users will come". You start small, build up institutional technical knowledge and a user base who is increasingly educated about HPC. Scientists new to computing will have no friggin' clue how to use the resources, and most often won't use them efficiently or often.

    Start with a resource big enough to provide an incentive for using your resource and come to that computing area - then start building it larger and larger if you have the money.

    The worst thing in the world is idle cycles.

  47. Note to world by daemonburrito · · Score: 1

    I can't believe that the jingoism in the above comments can possibly be representative of slashdot users.

    Hopefully more sane people with mod points will come along, and counteract the right-wing team-mods.

  48. Re:Simulating... by bornyesterday · · Score: 1

    They'll be following in a lot of footsteps. Landing the planes in flightsims was always the hardest part. But maybe next time, they won't have to pay for actual flight school lessons.

  49. Re:Simulating... by ZiggyStardust1984 · · Score: 1

    That's obviously to run Vista

  50. Re:Simulating... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You probably hit the nail on the head. The oil industry has been using super computer services from companies in the USA for many years - to provide visualization of underground structures in order to locate the best spots for drilling.

    If the Saudis could do this at home, they wouldn't need to shell out the dough for that to the infidels.

  51. Re:At least it does something for secular educatio by jlar · · Score: 1

    About four years ago, King Abdullah decided to throw money at the problem.

    I don't think you will establish a scientific culture by "throwing money at the problem". The problem in Saudi Arabia and many other muslim countries is not lack of scientific institutions it is lack of a rational world view.

    If Saudi Arabia wants to do science they have to address that problem. This means abandoning and actively combatting many islamic doctrines (Quran is the word of God, religious critique must be punished and so on).

    When people grow up in a culture and with a religion which discourages critical thinking and encourages superstition and persecution of critics they won't become scientists.

  52. Re:Simulating... by somersault · · Score: 2, Funny

    There's only two things I hate in this world: people who are intolerant of other people's cultures, and the bloody Dutch.

    --
    which is totally what she said
  53. What if I told you they had HPC systems way back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well you need to have worked there like I did to understand more about Saudi. It's like they are one foot in the 21st century and another foot in the 16th century. Having said that they do have some of the most talented and ambitious minds out there. When it comes to Supercomputing, back in the 80s they bought a CRAY machine and there was only 2 in the world 1 in the US and the other in Saudi, used for Oil & Gas modeling and analysis needed to make sure we get our gasoline at the pump. I know since I was part of that project. Now this University is something else and different (very different) women will work and conduct research next to men, they will have all the rights in the world and it's a big deal in the country and amongst academics right now. There hasn't been this kind of influx of money and talent into any university in the world before + this is open to all ... yes folks a kind of a first for Saudi (The University is OPEN TO EVERYONE) http://www.kaust.edu.sa

    One last point before the right wing group hits back ... this machine "from my sources" will follow an open model, meaning any scientist out there wanting to do a big simulation or crunch some serious numbers that have a big impact on science will be able to work with them. Like the way the national labs here in the US do, but without the long wait while Los Alamos is conducting some nuclear simulations.

  54. Re:At least it does something for secular educatio by raju1kabir · · Score: 1

    Mainly because men have to leave work four times a day to drive their wives around on errands - women can't drive, there's almost no public transport, it's too miserable to walk, and a taxi would be scandalous.

    --
    "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." -- GBS
  55. Title of article should have been by bugeaterr · · Score: 2, Funny

    Saudi Arabia to become supercomputing Mecca.

  56. Re:At least it does something for secular educatio by SteelAngel · · Score: 1

    "When people grow up in a culture and with a religion which discourages critical thinking and encourages superstition and persecution of critics they won't become scientists."

    They become Engineers. Seriously - I have never met a Saudi in a basic sciences degree program. They seem to gravitate toward Engineering, where all the answers are pre-solved for them and all they have to do is apply the geneal solutions to their problems.

    In a way, it's just like their religious training back home. With Math.

  57. their Arab's, i have my doubts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I've worked with a lot of Arab's and they are all talk, only interested in inflating their job titles and generally poor workers who give you "Allah willing" any time you ask them to do something. what ever they are saying their super computer can do, you can safely cut it in 1/2 and assume it was really built by a western contractor.

    i'll admit to being cynical and jaded and that yes there are some decent Arab's, i just haven't met them yet.

  58. Re:Simulating... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They are trying to figure out why people react to strange when they say: "We are a peaceful religion, if you say otherwise, we will kill you in the name of Allah!"

  59. Terrorism?? by schmim · · Score: 1

    And this was flagged as terrorism because of what .. geographic location? Its like me flagging every story that comes out of the south with racism.

    Unrelated, and unfair tag for a wholy tech story.

    --


    Imran Ahmed, Linux Inthuziast
    -----------
    "I like to dissect women. Did you know I'm totally insane?"
  60. Not if you have your own country. by master_p · · Score: 1

    It's called 'Saudi' for a reason: it belongs to the Saudi family.

    Imagine America being owned by the Bush family!!! What would it be called? "Bushiland"? "USB" ("United States of Bush")?

    How the hell do these people accept their country being named after a single person?

    1. Re:Not if you have your own country. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How the hell do these people accept their country being named after a single person?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerigo_Vespucci

  61. Re:At least it does something for secular educatio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Note that this one rare country in the world where unemployement is not a problem : it just mean you don't work. In this country, citizens don't pay taxes but get a part of the petroleum money. They have, in fact, negative taxes. So, not working is possible and done by many people.

    If the west kicks their mid-east oil habit, that might not be a reality anymore.

  62. Bullshit by Moraelin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There is always at least a kernal or truth to every bigoted joke, whether you PC types want to admit it or not.

    Honestly, I'm not a muslim (to paraphrase George Carlin, I used to be a christian until I reached the age of reason;), but I haven't found that much war-mongering in the Quran. Or at least in the translated copy of it that I still own. It seemed not much better or worse than the Bible, to be honest. I wish more people would actually read the damned thing before going on a mindless bashing spree based on rumours they heard from some idiot on TV... and which also hasn't actually read it.

    Yes, it contains a few things which can be taken out of context and used as justification for blowing shit up. Same as our Bible does too. You can find inciting to slavery, war crimes, rape, murder, and almost anything else if you want to take certain verses from the Bible literally as God's commandment as to what you should do.

    I mean, just as a random example, in Numbers, the Lord through Moses commands no less than complete genocide (including killing the women and children of the Midianites), with the exception being the virgin women... to be taken basically as slaves and distributed to the jewish men. I.e., way I understand it, nice way to add rape to slavery. You know, 'cause if you started the list with mass-murdering civillians, killing children and slavery, it would be a shame to not add rape to it too. They go well together, ya know?

    That's the kind of punishment a loving and kind Lord wishes upon those of another religion, who end up spreading their religion to the Lord's flock. The "sin" of the Midianites was merely that some Jews married their women, and some of those Jews ended up converting to their wives' religion. And for causing that "corruption", every single man and non-virgin woman, even "among the little ones" had to be put to the sword. In fact, Moses is annoyed that the soldiers didn't kill the midian women and chidren in the first place. I mean, duh, it should have been obvious.

    I could go on and give more examples, but let's just say: that's the kind of thing that's right there in the Bible. So if you want to split hairs and go "see, religion X incites to violence", you have equally good verses in the Bible. That's your kernel of truth.

    But do christians or christianity as a whole actually act that way? No, I don't think I've seen any people who think we should, say, go mass-murder India because some Christians joined a new-age Guru and converted to some eastern tantric stuff. I mean, it'd the direct equivalent of what the people of Midian did in the Bible, no? We don't actually do what those verses say. Most people don't even think about them.

    Same with the Quran, way I see it. Yes, it contains _some_ verses which can be considered an incitation to violence. And a few groups of nutters actually do. Most of the Muslims don't.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    1. Re:Bullshit by daveime · · Score: 1

      But do christians or christianity as a whole actually act that way? No, I don't think I've seen any people who think we should, say, go mass-murder India because some Christians joined a new-age Guru and converted to some eastern tantric stuff.

      Well the Spanish Inquisition did a pretty thorough job for 350 years.

      Jews, Protestants, Muslims were all persecuted in various ways for not following the "correct" religion. And we're not talking comfy chairs or soft cushions either.

       

    2. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, actually, there's a specific verse in the Qu'ran saying that in war, it's prohibited to kill women, children, the infirm, and non-combatants in general.

      "Except those who seek refuge with a people between whom and you there is a covenant, or (those who) come unto you because their hearts forbid them to make war on you or make war on their own folk. Had Allah willed He could have given them power over you so that assuredly they would have fought you. So, if they hold aloof from you and wage not war against you and offer you peace, Allah alloweth you no way against them." ~ An-Nisa, 004.090.

      Really shows you how closely terrorists follow the book, huh?

    3. Re:Bullshit by dbrutus · · Score: 1

      You really ought to look at research on what ancient warfare actually was like. Complete genocide down to the last individual was a completely normal thing to do in our pre-history. The casualty figures are staggering. The Old Testament is a history of a progressive reduction in the bloody scale of warfare and brutal punishments. By the time the muslims came around, complete genocide had been largely denormalized in the monotheistic traditions, though the Mongols made a good run at bringing it back in style.

      The problem right now is that the muslims have lost control of their own theology and aren't keeping their nutters sufficiently marginalized. That lack of control is a legitimate criticism and good enough cause to thump them until they clean their own house up, said thumping is currently being administered by social shame, economic campaign (energy independence efforts for example) and the occasional military campaign. Hopefully the muslims will get their shit together soon and we can stop this.

  63. Long ago, and quite different by Moraelin · · Score: 1

    Well,

    1. the inquisition worked quite a bit differently than most people seem to assume.

    For a start it _only_ had jurisdiction over Christians, and only over faith matters. So if you had declared yourself a Jew or a Muslim, the Inquisition could kiss your ass.

    The Inquisition only had a problem with (A) people who were gaming the system by declaring themselves Christians to gain the secular privileges those had in Spain, and then went and prayed to Allah or whatever, (B) clergy who did all sorts of crap from selling church favours to fucking boys, and (C) protestants. Ok, out of the three groups you noted, if you were a protestant, you were well and properly fucked.

    So technically, no, not even the Spanish Inquisition applied those verses. They were bad people, no doubt, but even they weren't out to kill you for merely not being a Christian. To even fall under their jurisdiction at all, you had to have declared yourself a Christian in the first place.

    2. You do notice that you had to qualify that as "Spanish", right? There was _one_ group which did excesses in the name of the bible. Hardly representative for christianity as a whole, eh? Im the same period, I don't think there were that many unbelievers persecuted by, say, the Swedish Inquisition. Did they even have one? They had people praying to the old Norse gods for _centuries_ after they had theoretically become a christian nation. Or I don't think I've heard of a Polish Inquisition.

    Even then, it wouldn't have been quite fair to paint the whole Christianity with the same brush as the Spanish Inquisition.

    3. And that goes doubly so for nowadays. We don't still burn heretics, you know?

    Same with the Muslims, you know? Yes, there are a few sub-groups of one sect, which take that religion to ridiculous extremes. I don't think it's fair to paint the whole Islam with the same brush as Al Qaeda.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    1. Re:Long ago, and quite different by denttford · · Score: 1

      It is rare to find someone who knows that the inquisition was officially directed at baptized Christians; it is confusing that your portrayal of the circumstances of your group A is mired in bias, skewed past the point of falsehood. Perhaps it is unintentional; that, I cannot say.

      1. You could not declare yourself a Jew of Muslim if you had ever been or suspected to have been baptized. The Inquisition would not kiss your ass, they would get (late) medieval on it.

      2. Any rumor or statement by a Catholic that a Jew or Muslim was an apostate would be sufficient to put them under the jurisdiction of the Inquisition. Convenient for eliminating enemies, business competition, or plain old spite. Did I mention that the "convicted" would have their property siezed by the crown?

      3. Protestants didn't exist until after the Inquistion started, and in Spain, well after. Perhaps that's why the death toll included a couple of thousand Marranos and perhaps a hundred or so Protestants. Not really "fucked."

      4) "Gaming the system... to gain privileges" Sure, if you consider not being expelled and losing all you own a privilege. You neglected to mention that you could not legally *be* a Jew or Muslim past 1492 in Spain (1497 in Portugal).


      Wikipedia's article on the subject is ok, give it a read. Better is the reference list.

      --

      Leben Sie jetzt die Fragen.
    2. Re:Long ago, and quite different by dbrutus · · Score: 1

      One of the nasty parts of history is that if you were a minority living in another king's lands, protectors of Islam, Catholicism, Calvinism, etc. would feel free to traipse across the border if you were abused. This led to continual warfare and, eventually when everybody was exhausted, the Peace of Westphalia and the modern system of sovereignty. So having a minority in your lands was something of a dangerous thing, geopolitically. All sorts of mischief could and often did ensue. The princes who expelled minorities were mean bastards but they weren't exactly irrational for doing it.

  64. Re:At least it does something for secular educatio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "If the west kicks their mid-east oil habit, that might not be a reality anymore."

    Now it's the West and the Far East.

  65. Re:At least it does something for secular educatio by kbahey · · Score: 1

    I have to dispute the figure of 90%.

    Having lived there for more than a decade, most Saudis I have worked with had secular degrees, mainly in engineering, computer and IT. Some in HR, ...etc. Most of them have Masters or Ph.D degrees from US universities, some from Europe. These were all on government grants. After 9/11, they shifted to Canada and Europe because the US would not be the welcoming place it used to be given the climate.

    If you are talking of post-graduate degrees in religious studies, then it would be understandable if they are more than secular degrees. The reason is that this type of education cannot be gotten from the USA or Europe. Even not from other universities in the Muslim world, such as Egypt's Al-Azhar, or others in Morocco, ...etc. due to ideological differences. They belong to different schools of thought that make it not an option for the Saudi religious establishment to encourage such exchange.

    So, yes, Ph.D and Masters in religious studies will be heavily biased towards in-country institutions, but it does not convey the whole picture.

  66. Oil geology by DrYak · · Score: 1

    I don't know, maybe they don't follow the mainstream geological theory ?
    Maybe their weird geological model require more computing power to analyse ?
    But stay reassured, they won't find anything. Everyone knows that the earth is 6500 years old and oil was put under the surface by the intelligent designer for us to use it ~

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  67. Funding by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    When you have enough spare funds, you can do anything.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  68. Re:Simulating... by WindBourne · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Same as you or me; Jobs. For the most part, the middle east is no different than another country. In fact, I would say it is a LOT like USA. We have LOTS of radicals here. Moral Majority (though mostly gone); Focus on the Family; Timethy McVae; Alamo family down in Texas; The polygamists down in Texas; etc.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  69. Re:Simulating... by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

    Oh, they had computers at the Manhattan project. They were just female and pretty.

  70. And what's all that horsepower for? by Number6.2 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    It's probably going to be used to track pilgrims in real time. Have a safe Haj!

    --
    "If god did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him" --Voltaire
    1. Re:And what's all that horsepower for? by Number6.2 · · Score: 1

      Flamebait! Yeowch! Tell me where Mecca is, Einstein!

      --
      "If god did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him" --Voltaire
  71. Re:At least it does something for secular educatio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    citizens don't pay taxes but get a part of the petroleum money. They have, in fact, negative taxes.

    No we don't. *Is Saudi*

    True, there are no taxes. But citizens don't get anything of the oil revenues directly. Unless you count the public services and institutions funded by it.

    Education is free, though. Better yet, college students get a modest pay out of it (About $300 a month).

  72. Re:At least it does something for secular educatio by belmolis · · Score: 1

    I suppose they could have special taxis for women, with a driver and two older women as chaperones. Of course, that wouldn't leave much room for passengers.

    Seriously, though, my understanding is that Saudis are also expected to attend a great many family social events: not only weddings and funerals and so forth as in other countries but audiences and various other things.

  73. Re:I once sold software to Saudi Arabia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At one of the conferences I attended here in Beirut, the chair of the department of pathology at King Faisal Specialist Hospital and Research Center, Riyadh (I think his name was Fouad Al Dayel) one of the top SA hospitals was asked about their hospital system and how much it costs. He answered without a blink, Cerner for $ 50 Mil.

    I then noticed that these people would never accept to fund research for any software development in SA or other universities; if they pay a couple a mil per yr, they may have something at least for the smaller hospitals few yrs later.

    Almost all Arab countries (especially the oil rich ones) are only consumers. They even refuse to invest in anything other than their luxury and BIGGER stuff...

    Funny how they also donated $44 million into your country's educational system seemingly on a whim.

    http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/db900sid/MYAI-7JP2DE?OpenDocument

    And before that, donated $50 million to Lebanon during the last war with Israel. And then promptly injected $1 BILLION into the Lebanese central bank to save the economy. Then held a Telethon with Saudi donations reaching $32 million.

    http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story_s.asp?storyid=1093122658
    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2006/07/mil-060729-irin01.htm

    So far Saudi Arabia is the Arab worldâ(TM)s major donor to Lebanon. On Wednesday, Saudi Arabiaâ(TM)s King Abdullah ordered the transfer of US $1 billion to Lebanonâ(TM)s central bank, in an effort to consolidate the stability of the Lebanese pound. Although the Lebanese central bank had some US $14 billion of foreign reserves, pressure was mounting on the pound and there was increased demand for the US dollar.

    (...)

    A further donation of US $32 million was raised through a Saudi television appeal on Thursday. A similar telethon conducted on Friday in the United Arab Emirates (UAE) raised Dh49 million (US $13.5 million). The telethon was organised by Dubai Media Incorporated, the Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Humanitarian and Charitable Foundation and the UAE Red Crescent Authority.

    Damn them cheap ass oil barons! Never thinking about helping anyone else.

  74. Re:Simulating... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fucking cheeseheads. I hope the Germans steal all their bikes again.

  75. Maybe They're Upgrading to Vista by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How did this one not make the comments already

  76. Why bother? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are they trying to calculate how many camels can dance on the tip of a needle?

  77. Re:Simulating... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    I don't know what are them using the supercomputer for, but one thing can be taken for granted: the supercomputer will be programmed to stop three times per day to sent prayers to Mecca (maybe the whole thing will be built oriented to Mecca), and also in Ramadan results will be released only at night.

  78. Re:At least it does something for secular educatio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Why? Many scientists were/are religious w/o conflict with their profession(IIRC, Newton spent more time working on his religious stuff than anything else). They won't have to abandon anything.

    "Is there any conflict between science and religion? There is no conflict in the mind of God, but often there is conflict in the minds of men."

  79. Re:Simulating... by xnixan · · Score: 1

    You can compare between Saudi Arabia before 30 years and now to see if you are right or wrong! unless you are not aware of how it was.

  80. Re:What if I told you they had HPC systems way bac by stm2 · · Score: 1

    The University is OPEN TO EVERYONE

    Also Israel citizens?

    --
    DNA in your Linux: DNALinux
  81. Re:Simulating... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh, they had computers at the Manhattan project. They were just female and pretty.

    Imagine a beowulf cluster of those!!!

  82. I didn't vote for them by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    it belongs to the Saudi family

    How'd they get it then? I'll tell you how - by exploiting the proletariat! By hanging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society...

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."