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The Stigma of a Tech Support Background
An anonymous reader writes "Since the last semester of college I've been working as a first line tech support agent. At first it was just a way to earn some extra money; then it became a way to scrape by until I could find myself a real job. By now (almost two years in), it's beginning to feel like a curse. The problem I'm having is that no matter how many jobs I apply for, and no matter how well-written my applications are, I can't seem to get further than the first interview. For some reason it seems a lot of employers will completely overlook my degree in computer engineering, the fact that I can show them several personal projects that I've worked on, and that I can show them that I clearly possess the skills they are looking for. I've had several employers tell me to my face, and in rejection letters, that my 'professional background' isn't what they're looking for even when they've clearly stated that they're looking for recent graduates. In fact, a few have even told me that they decided against hiring me simply because I've worked in tech support at a call center for the last two years. I'm wondering if others have experienced similar problems and if there are any good ways to get employers to realize that my experience from tech support is actually a good thing and not a sign of incompetence."
I was a developer for 10 years then decided to get a new job. I got lots of rejection before I landed a new position. I think that's just the way it goes. I probably got rejected 20-30 times. If they didn't call back, oh well. I had plenty of interviews that seemed to go just fine, then never got called back. It could be the economy, there's probably lots of qualified candidates looking for work. Just keep trying, make getting a job your full time job, and you'll have one before you know it. The current one I have was landed through a headhunter, I'm making twice what I was previously with a far better working environment. Don't get discouraged, I think lots of rejection is par for the course.
I agree with the parent, the fact you got some interview means people are paying attention to what is on your resume and willing to spend the time seeing if you are more than your resume. Perhaps there's something about the interview itself you can work on. There's plenty of articles out there about how to be good on an interview, its mostly just normal public speaking tips though: good eye contact, clear voice, ability to answer the questions with a decent answer even when you have to admit you don't know the answer, and so on.
That's what it is all about. I know this isn't addressing specifically what you asked, but it does address how to get a job. The answer is the post topic.
While people can and do get jobs cold, you find far more get it through some kind of in. You know someone at a company, or someone who knows someone. A personal introduction goes a hell of a long way.
So what you really need to be doing is shaking down all your contacts. Talk to your friends, family, people you've worked with, professors, etc. See if they know anyone in the industry you want to work in. Have them introduce you, then see if maybe they know of a group that'd like to hire you.
You may even find a job springs up where there wasn't one before. Someone says "Well we aren't looking right now, but you know, I think you'd work well in this group so let me talk to them." They might not be actively looking, but if introduced to someone good, they decide to hire that person.
I was going to say the same thing. You suck at interviewing. I look at a lot of resumes and interview a lot of candidates - I am one of the technical gateways to getting hired.
I look at most resumes for an average of a minute. I am mostly looking for past experience to ask you about and to quiz you on skills you say you have. If I pass on you it's because you sucked in the interview, not because of anything that was on your resume.
Here are some things to ask yourself:
- Am I dressed and groomed appropriately?
- How is my hygiene?
- Am I well spoken and can I communicate clearly and effectively?
- Have I thought about real answers to the typical questions and not just canned responses (i.e. strengths, weaknesses, greatest accomplishment, long-term goals, examples of working in a team, etc.)? You need to have well thought-out responses to these questions that apply to you.
- During tech interviews, can I provide real world examples or am I spitting out algorithms and examples from text books?
Practice your interviewing skills.
After several years as a developer, I found a job in tech support. Now, years later, I still love it. This is not your typical call center stuff: my customers are engineers. I am respected, the pay is good, the customers are fun, and the challenges change frequently. Many tech support engineers use their position to get their foot in the door and skill up and move on to development, but I'm pretty happy in support.
The other thing I would add is try smaller companies.
I concur.
I think smaller companies have better interviewers, and are more likely to give someone a shot for 90 days.
Also important: never underestimate the importance of your references, personal and professional.
As someone recently escaping the technical support scene, I'd like to clarify something I feel is misrepresented here.
There is a lot of talk of the high turn over rate at a call center. There is a lot of turn over, an extremely high rate most of the time, but that is primarily your level one agents. Higher level support (Tier two or higher according to the company) has a much lower attrition rate.
Working for a major computer retailer as tier two technical support for just shy of a year, I saw only two positions for tier 2 (Tier two was tops here) agents in that time working at their largest call center state side. If you had bad timing or too much competition it was extremely hard to move up ranks.
I can see how employers may overlook these details (or may simply be unaware of them) however. That is the part that cannot easily be overcome.
Personally, if you had the opportunity to work outside the box a little for your call center in a programming sense, mention it!
For instance I wrote an interal website to manage the extra data and solutions the tier 1 agents had access to. Sure it was a simple HTML page I could have written in '94 due to time and a lack of internal webserver availability (we had one but I didn't have access to it at the time) but it was and is still being used there on a daily basis by hundreds of people making it a worthwhile project to a further employer. (IE: useful)
- you'll have more responsibilities...
- work long and late hours...
- get paid less than you expected ('cause you're - gonna get a position that will somehow won't qualify for overtime)...
- spend sleepless nights worrying about some system or code that's been kicking you ass...
and you'll wistfully remember those carefree days shortly after graduation when you had a carefree job that you could leave at the office. all joking aside, you'll find another job with a better opportunity for advancement and better pay. what are you, 22-24? give it another year or two before you panick... you have a scant amount of experience, and in these economically tough times, it's likely that even though an employer says "recent graduates" they have a really high expectation that can only be filled by someone with more experience.
get to know people within the field/market you want to work in... show the person you want to work for that you have a pair of stones and you have the talent to back it up! go to trade shows and press the flesh, email prospective employers and ask if they have an opportunity for you, canvas your friends and family, church, coffeehouse, etc.
did you every take a job hunting/resume writing/interviewing class in college? they used to have these life lesson classes in high school, and i'm sure they have them in colleges as well... IMHO you might need coaching in life skills:
- learn to start and hold conversations with strangers
- learn to speak without using "umms", "aahs" and "you knows"
- learn to read body language
- learn how to take an interview
and quit complaining on slashdot about your career shortcomings, man up and figure it out!
three can keep a secret, if two are dead - benjamin franklin
I had that problem about 3 years ago. Graduated, couldn't find a job, got a job in an unrelated field, then hung on to it for 4 years. I ended up getting into my "true calling" by starting up a skunkworks project in that 4-year-doldrum job. I completed that project on my last day there. It was about a 3 month project, and I was hired away within that time period.
That, and I "expanded" my resumé with the 4 years I spent in that unrelated job. They don't believe me? Prove that I didn't do it. I worked there. While I was there I did X, Y, and Z, which are all skills they're looking for on that resumé.
Everyone lies on paper. It's how you perform once they've taken a chance on you that really matters. But if you don't sell yourself well enough for them to take that chance, you'll keep looking.
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"It could also mean that the economy is shit and these were the only jobs they could find."
It won't get better for some time, so consider what I did back in 1981. Join the military in a non-bullet-catcher specialty. The new Webb G.I. Bill is a FULL four-year ride to college with a monthly stipend, so you can wait out the failing economy while adding something employers respect to your resume, then get paid to go to school for another four years. With your degree, you can try for an officer slot and work less for much more money.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Well, NCR did screw with a lot of people after AT&T bought them in the 80's. They are not the humanely profitable(nor innovative) employer they once were. Now they make do with clone machines and Dell/Gateway/3rd World Country rebrands.
That, and they've allowed a certain university roll over the town's history (Building 26). There is no good blood that exists that hasn't been forcibly removed from NCR.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Mod parent up. This is absolutely true. If you are getting an interview, you are past the first and biggest hurdle in getting a job. The first task of any hiring manager is to go through and, one way or another, grade the resumes into two piles: "Unqualified" and "Qualified on paper." They may automate this or not--doesn't matter. If you get an interview, there is nothing on your resume that repulses them, including your work history, which is already apparent to them before they call you in. They would not take the considerable time to call you in if they didn't think you were otherwise qualified.
So that leaves you. Coupla suggestions:
1) Go to an employment counselor or even a friend and set up a fake interview. Tape yourself. Grimace and look at the results. If you have a habit of picking your nose when you're nervous, well....you might not even know.
2) Learn more about the company then the interviewer knows. "I see this company has enjoyed a 30% growth rate over the last few years. If this keeps up you'll be the biggest company in the world in ten years. Since that can't happen, what are your plans? How will you stay focused?"
3) You've been to interviews. You know the questions. Develop some cracker jack answers. Where do you see yourself in five years? You KNOW they'll ask that. "What is your greatest weakness? strength?"
Anyway, good luck. It's tough.
How about a moderation of -1 pedantic.
in the US it is ILLEGAL for any company to give you a derogatory reference.
They can confirm employment dates .. and THAT IS IT.
I have personal experience with this. And even my local department of labor assisted with suing and recovery of 100k judgment against one of my former employers.
Also I did not know this company / former boss was giving bad references. Turns out that a previous boss was upset that I did not offer to bring him with me when I left the company. So he decided to be a prick when anyone would call about me.
While its always tough to prove. You can hire a reference checking firm and have them check your own references.Also your local department of labor LOVES to help with this kind of thing.
How would that type of law pass constitutional muster? That whole "freedom of speach" thing would seem to get in the way.
Do you have any citation for this? I don't doubt that many places have a policy of revealing nothing beyond dates, but that is due to fear of civil liability rather than illegality.
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