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The Stigma of a Tech Support Background
An anonymous reader writes "Since the last semester of college I've been working as a first line tech support agent. At first it was just a way to earn some extra money; then it became a way to scrape by until I could find myself a real job. By now (almost two years in), it's beginning to feel like a curse. The problem I'm having is that no matter how many jobs I apply for, and no matter how well-written my applications are, I can't seem to get further than the first interview. For some reason it seems a lot of employers will completely overlook my degree in computer engineering, the fact that I can show them several personal projects that I've worked on, and that I can show them that I clearly possess the skills they are looking for. I've had several employers tell me to my face, and in rejection letters, that my 'professional background' isn't what they're looking for even when they've clearly stated that they're looking for recent graduates. In fact, a few have even told me that they decided against hiring me simply because I've worked in tech support at a call center for the last two years. I'm wondering if others have experienced similar problems and if there are any good ways to get employers to realize that my experience from tech support is actually a good thing and not a sign of incompetence."
No offense intended, but at least the tech support people I talk to on the phone just follow a script (which make you follow), so to me first line support means 'a hurdle I need to pass asap'. Last time I needed "support" they asked me to reboot my computer, then press the windows key, move the mouse to 'run', then type c-m-d then press enter, then type in the black box 'i-p-c-o-n-f-i-g', etc. This was my telco and the problem was I didn't have service. The woman on the phone said they only supported Windows and because I said I had linux she wouldn't open a ticket. I had to fake replacing the linux computer with a windows one ("luckily" I had a work laptop around) before having a ticket open.
Now, I'm not saying this is your case. But it's hard to believe that these kind of people are any good when it comes to computers. [I'm not saying they're stupid]
Two years doing that - looks like they just can't find a better job. If they didn't find another job elsewhere and they didn't get promoted in their absolutely low level job...well, it doesn't scream 'talent', does it?
You obviously had a chance to ask for more details, did you?
Anyway...this is what I'd think if I was interviewing you, but I might be completely wrong. I'd like to think you would have a fair chance to change my mind, though.
For some reason that unfortunate perception just keeps being spread by the people who use tech support.
Really, your career is now in tech. support and given the usual turnover in support staff, 2 years is a long time to be on the bottom rung (please don't take this as an offense, it's just an observation). It does show that for whatever reason, you haven't progressed in your current employment.
If you're looking for a career change (from what you're doing now) then the good news is that your CV is "marketable" as you're getting interviews, the problem must be what the interviewer sees when you're in the interview. Sounds like it's time for a makeover before you become institutionalised.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
Do like I did, intern for free at a local computer shop for 2 months, prove your worth and get hired. After that, go out and get your A+, its a little overwhelming at first but after you pass the exam you have a piece of paper saying you are worth something in the tech world.
Work at the shop for a year. Take whatever wage they sling you, they will give you a raise as soon as all the customers call up looking to speak to you directly especially if you start managing big accounts.
After you complete your one year with the computer shop and have your A+ Cert combined with your help desk experience you can finally get a real tech job.
or start selling hackintoshes....
Dr. D
A few years ago I hired a girl that worked in the desktop support group of a client I was consulting at. She had a CS degree, but I could care less about that. One day she showed me a project she was doing with Python and TurboGears. I had no idea she could code. After looking through what she had (and making sure she hadn't lifted it from somewhere) I gave her my card and told her to call me if she ever got tired of fixing PCs.
A couple of months later she was working freelance (from home), on a laptop provided by me, coding Python and pulling in 5x her old salary. Worked for me for about a year, then took a job with a startup that also employed her boyfriend.
I don't know how widespread this is, but I can tell you that I don't care about where you've been the past two years, what your degree (or lack thereof) is, or what god you pray to. If you can ace two days of technical and non-tech interviews, you're hired. These companies are definitely doing it wrong. In fact, I'd say working support might give you interpersonal skills that many developers lack. This girl certainly was a great person to work with, aside from just being good at coding.
And well... yes, she was cute. But also engaged =)
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...and, unfortunately, I have no useful advice to offer.
I worked tech support at a (then) Fortune 100 pc "assembler" and seller, including as a member of their corporate tech support group. After I took a job on the company's web team, I was laid off, went back to school full time and got a master's in comp sci.
I tried to find a job developing embedded systems, preferably in defense industry. I had / have a security clearance, decent grades, significant work experience... and finally after 18 months, one offer from a small company which I quickly took. Nine months later, they laid off 40% of their engineering department...
I never had anybody figuratively "turn up their nose" at my tech support experience. I think they just looked at it as non-specific work experience, i.e. "could hold a job for extended period of time without getting fired."
Since then, I've found very well paying work that is still in the IT industry, but really isn't what I had hoped to find.
Now I am in my early 40s and prospects of finding the kind of work I was interested in (and still am) are quickly fading.
I am trying to find satisfaction for my itch in personal projects.
I don't know what it is, but there must be something that I have been lacking or failed to show / demonstrate in interviews.
For what it is worth, I wish you well in your search.
I can't find a job because I have no experience. That is pretty bad when you first leave college, but after several years companies feel you're unemployable because no one hired you. My only hope for making any income is to create my own profitable software projects.
God spoke to me.
Let me add something, since the OP did mention his personal projects.
It's possible you just suck. Yes, your projects may compile and run, and do what you want, and your experience in school may have left you feeling like the head of your class. It's still possible to be bad at what you do.
That's not saying you are inevitably going to be a shitty programmer your whole life. Really, really being good at what you are doing takes a lot of effort.
Anecdotally, my first real programming job interview was with Jellyvision, who were making the (at the time) totally popular game "You Don't Know Jack." I had a long interview with their hiring people and they loved me. I came back the next day and spent all day interviewing with their programmers and design teams and hanging out at the office, which was pretty nice. They all thought I was great. Then I came back in for a third day; the third day I was to bring in a CD of my own code, explain it all, and participate in a code review of what I'd written. They never talked to me again after that, and I know why -- my code SUCKED. I mean, really, really bad. I found some of it on an old disk a year ago and was /horrified./
I'm better now. I'm not great, but I'm way better.
I used to have a friend who was a master of fudge. He was great at making up qualifications for jobs he wanted, and after a few years, he'd amassed a long list of jobs he'd gotten that way. The only problem was, he'd lost them all for the same reason: they kept finding out he'd lied to them and fired his sorry little ass. Once, he got a job as a trainee for tech support at an ISP; he didn't last until lunch on his first day.
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"I'm wondering if others have experienced similar problems . . ."
By "similar problems," I take it you mean, at least in part, pointless interviews conducted by H.R. weenies who don't know a USB port from a glass transistor?
They're robotic wind-ups, much the same as the typical third-world first-level "support" tech (you know--start with "A"--> If answer is "X" go to "B" else go to "C" unless "Y" is present). Same brain cells, different script.
You're after the hiring manager, not some dweeb with a B-school degree, so keep your eye on the ball. The trick is to get by the gatekeeper, so you sometimes gotta . . . lie a little.
You may find it's easier to leave the tech support stuff off the resume and just lean on the recent-grad-Comp Sci thing. You're also up against a shelf life problem in that if it takes too long to connect, you're no longer "recent." Now you know how people end up in grad school and even PhD's by the age of 27.
Never underestimate the value of a solid list of personal references. Any good or cool projects you did for anyone are worth mentioning.
The help-desk thing was just to pay the light bill, right? Forty years ago, some of us drove trucks or dug ditches or went military long enough to soak up whatever they were passing out. The military experience on my resume in the 1970s was there solely to show where I went to school, and fell off after 10 years. A college degree is good on a resume forever.
You busted your hump and did it the hard way. Why dilute that effort by mentioning what you did to pay the rent? Just a thought.
It's not going to make you feel any better, but things are a lot tougher now than in my day (1960s-1990s mini/micro computers). Sure, troubleshooting discreet circuits from a schematic and looking at an O'scope and little blinking lights was an entry level skill, but electronics isn't exactly a black art. The math is mostly high-school, and anything else you need to know you could dig out of a book. The coding was assembler, and you didn't have to deal with any really huge bunches of code.
About all I can do is wish you luck--It's a shame to see someone work so hard to get the paper only to be blown off by interviewers who obviously don't get it.
That also depends on the call centre
I worked tech support for Apple, I was front line on the phone, I did that for 2 years.
There was no real advancment for a technical person. The reason? Outsourcing. I worked, not for Apple, but for Minacs Inc. Mincas is not a computer company, they are a call centre company. So the promotion line was up to team leader and manager positions, which are just classic non-tech manager jobs: employee evaluations, quota targets, avg phone times, etc... Anyone with a degree in anything technical or scientific would be going in the wrong direction there. You could maybe get a job with the IT dept, if they were ever hireing and then you'd have to get them to hire someone off the call floor.
since we weren't Apple, we didn't have every dept. Tier 2 was in California, in fact we only had front line agents, so the only place I could got was to a management position that was usually filled with people who spent more of their day manipulating the call tracking system to make them look better on paper than the people who actually did their jobs well. Yeah the people who just hang up on you are the ones who are put in charge.
The jobs are good money for when you need it. But it can be hard to get out of it when it can take months to find a job in your actual field and sometimes a promotion at a particular company isn't actually beneficial.
If it's possible, have you thought about trying to move within your company? Tell them about your career aspirations, perhaps there are some opportunities there. It could be the foot in the door that you need.
Don't worry about rocking the boat. With your experience you could always find another tech-support job.
I've run into this time and time again. I've been mostly-unemployed (I'm told I should call this "self employed" or such) for the past year due to similar "shortcomings" which were either outside my ability to control (company layoffs shortly after starting) or, as you describe, resulting in a negative stigma.
My experience/training is more in IT than EE type work, but I've still not managed to escape the stigma. A friend, an animator, who has had a much more tumultuous employment history, with many more gaps, but has no problem picking up a new job whenever he wants one (and while he's talented, he's not a complete cut above the rest).
These are a couple guesses as to why this is happening to the both of us (and apparently many others):
1) Companies are very, very picky about hiring anyone for "computer related" jobs. The only thing I can figure is that HR types have been taught that IT/CS/EE = diploma mill hacks and shysters.
2) There really is a glut of IT/CS/EE graduates out there, for what the market can provide. Maybe, maybe not - but it seems to me that there are a lot of "entry level" IT/CS jobs which end up going to people with a fair amount of experience. I certainly think there are a lot fewer jobs out there right now than graduates, at least based on what I've heard from recruiters/etc.
3) HR types might just not know what they're looking at, or what they're looking for, when they look for technical people. They might prefer hiring someone with a more traditional degree who they think can "cut it".
4) Indian H1B workers. Who knows?
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
I won't go quite that far, but I've noticed that in interviews where my "give a damn" quotient and general interest in the position is low, I tend to get job offers. That might have something to do with the display of confidence,
An approach I've taken in the last couple interviews is somewhere between your (I suspect, overstated) example and the traditional "suit, tie, close shave, styled hair" look. Basically, it's a suit with a dress shirt, top button unbuttoned, no tie, casual shoes. The hair goes unbrushed (air dried - I keep it short) and the stubble is left there for around 12-24 hours or so, slightly more than "5 o'clock shadow" (so it's visible, but it's not quite unkempt - I suppose it'd vary depending on how quickly one's hair grows).
Given that it seems that most HR types are women these days, it works pretty well. I s'pose.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Remember: You don't need to tell the employer the job is a volunteer job unless they ask and volunteering for 5 hours a week as a database administrator for the local office of the American Cancer Society (or another well know charity) looks great on your resume.