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Blizzard Awarded $6M Damages From MMOGlider

dw604 writes "The makers of MMOGlider have been found in breach of the World of Warcraft terms of service and are forced to pay Blizzard $6M in damages." There's a lot of sticky issues on this one. Mostly I'm amazed that MMOGlider had that kind of cash.

18 of 460 comments (clear)

  1. Finances & Conflict by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Mostly I'm amazed that MMOGlider had that kind of cash.

    MMOGlider is the application, MDY would be the holder of the finances. After scanning the article, it seems that he is estimated to have sold 100,000 copies at $25 a pop resulting in $2.5 million ... then you have all the costs of hosting and developing and lawyering and all that.

    And as the bottom of the article says:

    The case is due to go to court again in January 2009 when the remaining issues in the legal conflict look likely to be settled.

    At issue will be whether MDY broke the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act and whether Mr Donnelly will have to pay the damages from his own pocket.

    And there you have it, in all likelihood they are not sitting on $6 million. As the article says, it's a good thing MDY won its arguments about the 'damages' their program caused to Blizzard otherwise they would be looking at $12 or $18 million settlements.

    And there's your sticky issue, what exactly are the damages. I hate this because if I know it's happening, it ruins WoW for me. But on the other hand, does it really ruin the game if someone magically goes from 1 to 70 in two weeks without working for it? I might be jaded that I had to put in hours of muscle distrophying arthritis inducing clicking to get there ... but what's different now? So another player has more gold or resources, it's a tiny leg up in that game as the best items are won in PVP or require meticulous PVE to acquire.

    The stickiest issue is that a lot of us are conflicted. It pisses us off that WoW is a little less fair but on the surface this was a guy who avoided all technical attempts Blizzard tried to thwart him in a great game of cat & mouse. In the end, he could claim he was just selling software that users happened to use to violate Blizzard's TOS and EULA with. I've heard the same arguments about BitTorrent and would probably side with the software makers in this case ...

    I guess for me 'sticky' isn't a good description of it. No, there are two core ideologies which are conflicting here. The gamer in me says that games should be as fair as possible. WoW is already naturally flawed to some degree in this way and it is Blizzard's responsibility to keep the playing field level. MMOGlider upsets this 'fairness' and destroys the inherent fun in the game. On the other side of the issue he was just a guy writing software and selling it. I could throw him in with the likes of spammers and botnet masters but it was just a legitimate client program running on a paying user's machine.

    Add to this what we've suffered through from Blizzard including rootkits and unfounded bans and it's an issue that strikes very close to home.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Finances & Conflict by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 4, Informative

      You know that, even though the game is online, there has to be a player right? Glider is a computerized "player" that plays the game for you, doing mindless killing to level the character up.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    2. Re:Finances & Conflict by mollymoo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In the end, he could claim he was just selling software that users happened to use to violate Blizzard's TOS and EULA with. I've heard the same arguments about BitTorrent and would probably side with the software makers in this case ...

      It's not the same as BitTorrent at all. BitTorrent has legitimate, legal uses. Glider can only be used, and can only have been developed, in violation of The WoW licence. People don't just happen to use it to violate the licence, the very thing Glider is designed to do is in violation of the WoW license.

      --
      Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
    3. Re:Finances & Conflict by The+Empiricist · · Score: 5, Informative

      And there's your sticky issue, what exactly are the damages.

      From the court order itself (which you can download for about $0.40) there were a set of undisputed facts:

      1. MDY began selling Glider on June 14, 2005. Through September 10, 2008, MDY has sold approximately 120,000 licenses for Glider. The amount of gross revenues received by MDY from the sale of Glider from June 14, 2005 through September 10, 2008 is approximately $3.5 million dollars.
      2. Blizzard spends at least $942,614.57 per year responding to customer complaints as to bots generally and implementing a bot enforcement program to decrease the number of bots in the game. Glider represents the large majority of bots used in connection with World of Warcraft.
      3. Between December 22, 2004 and March 18, 2008, Blizzard received more than 465,000 in-game petitions from users complaining about bots. Several thousand of these petitions mention Glider by name. Blizzard has continued to receive complaints about bots generally, and Glider specifically, after March 18, 2008.

      There were also a set of disputed facts and legal conclusions:

      1. That MDY and/or Donnelly's conduct caused harm to Blizzard both in the form of the direct expenses used to combat Glider use and infringement, as well as in the form of lost subscription revenue, lost profits, and harm to Blizzard's goodwill and reputation.
      2. That Blizzard's damages expert would testify that the lost subscription revenue and harm to Blizzard's goodwill and reputation can be quantified to exceed $20 million dollars.
      3. That MDY and/or Donnelly's conduct was willful and wanton and an award of the highest amount of statutory damages--$2,500 per sale of the Glider software--would be appropriate.
      4. That Blizzard is entitled to an award of punitive damages against MDY and Donnelly for their intent to cause injury to Blizzard or because they were motivated by spite or ill will or because MDY and Donnelly acted to serve their own interests, having reason to know and consciously disregarding a substantial risk that their conduct might significantly injure Blizzard.

      It looks like the $6M are actually stipulated damages. That is, both parties have agreed that if there are to be any damages, they will be $6M exactly. Issues of liability can still be appealed. But, issues of what the damages should be are no longer in dispute. This means that Blizzard and MDY can both keep their legal costs down. Instead of sniping about damages (spending $10 to prove $1 in damages), they can keep their lawyers arguing a handful of core legal issues.

    4. Re:Finances & Conflict by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I still don't really see the motivation. That a computer can play the game better than a human is a good sign of a bad game. That people actually want a computer to play for them is a sign of a really badly designed game.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    5. Re:Finances & Conflict by MightyYar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That a computer can play the game better than a human is a good sign of a bad game.

      Computers can (and have) beat the best chess players in the world. Chess is not a bad game, even though I can never beat the computer on the hardest levels. I'm not defending WOW, since I've never played it - but I disagree with your premise.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    6. Re:Finances & Conflict by Duffy13 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually, bots usually play much much worse then real players. However, they have the benefit of being able to run all the time. The trade off is it may take longer to accomplish a level, but you don't actually have to sit there for it.

      --
      "Now you know, and knowing is half the battle!"
    7. Re:Finances & Conflict by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Funny

      The premise of a "discussion board" is apparently hard for you to grasp.

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      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    8. Re:Finances & Conflict by Sloppy · · Score: 4, Funny

      Why the flaming fugg would I pay for software to play a game for me, while also paying a subscription fee for access to the game itself?

      Perhaps you're a sociocyberpath. You see, normal people empathize with their computer, and feel bad at what all they put the poor machine through. So they give it the enjoyment of mindless repetitive tasks in a virtual environment with others of its kind, all without some stupid and demanding user sitting there at the keyboard. It's "computer time." How sad that you can't imagine this simple kindness.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    9. Re:Finances & Conflict by Jim_Maryland · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, bots usually play much much worse then real players.

      While leveling my priest alt, I ran several instances with players (amazingly mostly hunters...guess the "huntard" term is more appropriate than I had expected) that I would argue are worse than bots.

      I think the damage to the game is that by allowing the economies to be influenced by bots and players to gain a high level character without actually learning to play it, real players become disappointed with the game. While playing a character doesn't necessarily make you a good player when you hit level 70, it certainly helps. I could sell my mage (wearing a lot of T6 gear) to a new player to the game and I'm sure people could easily tell that they have no clue how to play. If the server were heavily populated by "bad" players, I'd either transfer to another realm or quit playing the game. This is one of the forms of damage that Blizzard can claim (not sure if they can back it up, but at least they can claim it).

    10. Re:Finances & Conflict by TarrVetus · · Score: 5, Funny

      Who asked you? Seriously?

      Who asked you to ask who asked him?

      Wait, who asked me to ask you to ask who asked you to ask him? And if no one asked us to ask, then why do we ask at all?!

      It's all been for naught. Our keyboards... useless, now.

  2. Finances have nothing to do with awards by gmezero · · Score: 4, Informative

    They might not have a penny to them. That has no relation to the award made by the court.

  3. Re:Desperation by Jaysyn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    World of Warcraft - A game so fun that people pay for programs to play it for them.

    --
    There is a war going on for your mind.
  4. Gold Farming by mrroot · · Score: 4, Funny

    Mostly I'm amazed that MMOGlider had that kind of cash.

    Maybe they just used their own application to farm some more gold. Just a thought.

    --
    I Heart Sorting Networks
  5. Re:Desperation by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Funny

    World of Warcraft - A game so fun that people pay for programs to play it for them.

    You're telling me! I can't wait for World of World of Warcraft to come out! I'm going to roll a 90 lb famished Chinese man working for pennies an hour!

    --
    My work here is dung.
  6. What you're missing by Moryath · · Score: 5, Insightful

    is that WoW killed this for the wrong reasons.

    The ability to set this to run completely unattended? BAD. I totally agree that botting is no good, it's killed a lot of MMO's.

    However, the ability to set this up to do ordinary tasks for users who have disabilities would be GOOD. It would enlarge the potential WoW audience. I'm not saying make it fine as-is, I'm saying that a "semi-unattended" setup where people playing the game just set up and monitor their macros isn't any worse than the normal mode of play (hell, wasn't that the entire control system of Final Fantasy 12?).

    A lot of potential WoW players (potential gamers in general, actually) have problems. Someone who has partial paralysis or has had a hand/arm amputated has trouble using the standard game controllers. Now think about the game systems that get around this. If you've got two good legs, you can do DDR or Wii Fit without arms. If you only have one good arm, you can use the Wiimote and at least 50% of the Wii's games (though you still can't play Zelda). On the other hand, if you go near the Xbox360 or PS3, you're pretty much fucked.

    Older titles didn't have this problem. If you have one hand, or even one of those face-stick setups with a single button, you can play Space Quest, King's Quest, and probably map the joystick to play single-button arcade games. If you have a working thumb and two fingers, you can get a two-button joystick and play NES titles.

    Do I really care if someone who has disability problems, or even carpal tunnel, is able to set off macros to do the same thing I would do in multiple steps? Not really. I can still group with them, or play the game without them.

    For some reason, however, the WoW designers don't want disabled gamers playing their game. They have ignored REPEATED entreaties from the disabled community to program in ways to make it feasible for disabled gamers to play. For quite a few, programs like WoW Glider were the fix. This is just one more symptom of the gaming industry not getting it when it comes to making their titles and systems accessible.

  7. hypotethically .. by savuporo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I i had a real robot ( no i dont mean biped humanoid ) that would be able to play for me using a mouse, screen and a keyboard .. they would sue the company that made the robot ?

    And its not that far fetched, as a hardware you need just a camera watching the TV, and two inputs to PS2 and USB ports on my puter ..

    So where do they draw the line ?

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    1. Re:hypotethically .. by yenne · · Score: 5, Funny

      [If] i had a real robot ( no i dont mean biped humanoid ) that would be able to play for me using a mouse, screen and a keyboard ..

      This is what children are for.

      "Suzy, it's your night to do the dishes. Johnny, gather and take out the trash. Joey, we need four primal fires."