Future Sony MMOs Will Be On Consoles

The MTV Multiplayer Blog interviewed John Smedley, President of Sony Online Entertainment, about the future of MMOs. He discusses some of SOE's current projects and comments that they'll be focusing on consoles for all of their upcoming MMOs. "I would say that we would be one of the early adopters on [bringing MMOs to consoles], and we plan on becoming one of the dominant players in the MMO space on consoles." Sony's plans may include games for their hand-held console, the PSP. Smedley goes on to talk about bringing existing, popular franchises into MMO development, and remarks, "It's pretty safe to say that 'EverQuest' has not seen its last game."

Comments

Everquest 3?

[Anonymous Coward]

I worry though about console MMOs. MMOs focus a lot on communication between people for grouping/raiding. Unless the console this is being written for supports headsets for a Teamspeak-like interface, communicating on a raid will be very difficult, especially with a game controller.

EQOA is a good MMO, but its almost empty of population.

Maybe the best compromise would be allowing both PCs and PS/3s to both play.

Re:Everquest 3?

[Ariven]

They introduced voice chat into everquest 2 recently.. it went very smoothly and works great.. so I think they have the voice chat angle covered.

Re:Everquest 3?

[narcberry]

Also introduced voicechat into Everquest recently. EQ2 = EQ1, why'd you guys ever leave?

Re:Everquest 3?

[Anonymous Coward]

Everquest 2 is a well rounded MMO. I just wish more people played it. Its a great place for almost anyone except the hardcore PvP-er who wants battlegrounds 24/7. You can advance a character is a lot of ways, either by crafting (adventure level and crafting level are two distinct things -- you can be a level 80 crafter and a level 1 adventurer), running quests for AA (similar to talent points in WoW), raiding (downed named mobs give you status to buy items, as well as guild status), and good ol' mob grinding.

It also features a couple things that Call of Heros has -- mentoring for example. You can help out a low level character with your high level, and gain bonus exp in the process.

Finally, it offers a decent house and guild hall system.

Re:Everquest 3?

[Ariven]

Wait, there was another Everquest?

I thought the 2 was cosmetic, for effect..

Re:Everquest 3?

[electrictroy]

>>>Sony's plans may include games for their hand-held portable, the PSP. >/b>

Question: My PSP has stopped working. I was playing Patapon when suddenly the thing just shutoff.

Now if I move the power-switch, then greenlight blinks for a second and then shutsoff. Even when I plugin my AC adapter, it only turns yellow and refuses to turn-on. I've charged it overnight and it's still the same results. Any idea what has happened to my PSP and how to fix it? Bad fuse perhaps?

Re:Everquest 3?

[drsquare]

MMOs focus a lot on communication between people for grouping/raiding. Unless the console this is being written for supports headsets for a Teamspeak-like interface, communicating on a raid will be very difficult, especially with a game controller.

1. Nearly anyone who's played games such as Call of Duty online have headsets.

2. There's no reason an MMO needs to revolve around communication or raids.

Re:Everquest 3?

[Supurcell]

2. There's no reason an MMO needs to revolve around communication or raids.

MMOs absolutely need to revolve around communication. What's the point of playing with a massive number of people if you aren't interacting with them? Teamwork is the core of an MMO, and to work together effectively, you need to be able to coordinate with each other.

Re:Everquest 3?

[Chris Mattern]

Geez, how many people are this ignorant? YOU CAN HAVE A FREAKING KEYBOARD!

Re:Everquest 3?

[Anonymous Coward]

IF you had not already noticed, PS3 supported keyboard and mouse out the box (wired, wireless USB, or Bluetooth). YOu even have the option of the DualShock clipon keyboard too.

Who cares and good riddance.

[rufusdufus]

See these charts:
http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart1.html
http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart2.html

Notice the arcs of SOE's products. This company is washed out. And no wonder; the way they jerk their players around is unbelievable. This company is run by sociopaths.

Re:Who cares and good riddance.

[Atriqus]

I knew Blizzard effectively shamed the rest of the MMO genre, but I had no idea it was to that extent.

Re:Who cares and good riddance.

[lysergic.acid]

i agree with you about Sony (it's not just limited to their game publishing arm), but those charts show that all MMOs (and probably all games) follow an arcing popularity curve.

a few games like WOW and Tibia seem to have longer popularity arcs than usual, but they will still wane in popularity eventually. and FF XI actually seems to be doing better than a lot of other games.

their anti-consumer business model/attitude, and incompetent corporate leadership, etc. have resulted in many mismanaged products. but i really don't see what would suggest that their development studios are washed out. the game developers have little to do with company policies or customer relations. it's mostly the management-level decision makers that are delusional sociopaths.

Re:Who cares and good riddance.

[leathered]

Don't use mmogchart.com as even a guide to players subs. Only Blizzard are up-front about their numbers, and why wouldn't they when they are so far ahead of the pack? For most MMO publishers, subscription figures are secret and never make it outside of the boardroom. For these publishers, Mmogchart.com can only resort to speculation and heresay to arrive at their figures.

You sound like another bitter ex-SWG player who can't let go of the fact they ruined *your* game. Yes they fucked up, and Smedley has admitted as such, though people often overlook the influence LucasArts had over the changes and lay the blame totally on SOE. Get over it and move on.

Re:Who cares and good riddance.

[Jimmy King]

Yeah, WoW is insane as far as subscriptions goes. It had tons of problems at launch with servers always being overpopulated and not being able to keep up with the load. Blizzard said it was because they had gotten way more subscribers than they had expected based on the number of subscribers other MMOs historically had and so weren't prepared for the number they really got.

Re:Who cares and good riddance.

[Jestor Rodo]

Their future has to be console because they have burn the bridge to their PC MMO past with lies, fraud and Piss poor customer service. WoW spanked their ass but they turned around and screwed the players out of their games trying to become more WoW like.

Re:goodluckwiththat

[Hairy Heron]

Yep it's not like anyone played FFXI or anything.

Console controllers for long-term playing?

[compumike]

Maybe it's just me, but for something that I'll be playing even for more than half an hour, I really prefer a PC mouse/keyboard (and sometimes joystick) to a console controller. Since these MMOs tend to focus on people who are going to be playing for a long time very frequently, I hope they've considered that effect. I'd get very uncomfortable with any of the popular console controls (Wii/Xbox) and just don't find them particularly effective. Additionally, text chat seems to be an important part of MMOs.

This isn't a show-stopper, as I'm sure they could adapt conventional PC controls, but I'm still not sure if it's a step in the right direction or not.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[RightSaidFred99]

I think it is a showstopper. MMO requires keyboard/mouse - period. Or at least, a standard console controller won't cut it.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[Hairy Heron]

Exactly why is a keyboard/mouse required? It's amazing how hundreds of thousands of people had no problems playing FFXI without a keyboard/mouse.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[RightSaidFred99]

FFXI not real MMO. Go look at e.g. WoW, AoC, Warhammer, etc... Not playable with console scheme. They'd have to be way dumbed down.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Your point is fair, console controls are substantially inferior for certain purposes(RTS is the worst, FPS is pretty bad, MMO isn't much better than FPS). However, it should be noted that the all contemporary consoles have USB ports, and all but the 360 have bluetooth(except maybe the most cut down ps3, I can't keep them straight). USB HID and/or bluetooth peripheral support would be trivial enough to add, and USB or bluetooth peripherals are ubiquitous and cheap.

The consoles have absorbed enough PC that controller suckitude is optional.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[Hairy Heron]

FFXI not real MMO.

Ummm.. lol? Exactly how is it not an MMO?

Go look at e.g. WoW, AoC, Warhammer, etc... Not playable with console scheme.

In what way? All you would do is have macros set to key combos to do things just like the vast majority of people do in other mmos on PCs.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[rtb61]

It is not about playability, as that is nothing more than what accessories are available ie. remote keyboard and mouse. What it is about is an alternate sales scheme for game consoles. Join an MMO, sign a long term contract, pay the subscription fee and get a free game console as part of the package.

This creates an opportunity to create a major MMO whilst also providing an opportunity for additional sales and licence revenues. The only question is whether it would work or not and how many failed rental contracts Sony might get stuck with in these turbulent economic times but, the rental model often works better when finances are tight.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[Anonymous Coward]

I can play FPS's just fine on a console, thank you. It all depends on what you're used to. I've played consoles a lot longer, so I can control them better than using a keyboard and mouse.
Oh and Final Fantasy XI wasn't that great, but it wasn't to bad on PS2. The game itself was what was bad, not the controls. Sorry if I made any FF XI fans mad ;)

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[Hairy Heron]

FPS is pretty bad,

And yet apparently 10s of millions of people seem to manage playing them just fine on consoles. I think the issue is a personal failing on your own part in light of this. BTW I play FPS on both PCs and consoles and have no issues with either and never understand when people complain about this.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[spire3661]

PS3 fully supports Kb/mouse via bluetooth and USB.....

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

I'm not looking to start a flamewar over matters of taste; but I will note that autoaim is considered a cheat on the PC, and a feature on the console. Go figure.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[Hairy Heron]

but I will note that autoaim is considered a cheat on the PC, and a feature on the console. Go figure.

And I will note that I've not seen any serious console player ever use autoaim if it even exists in the game, which is almost never.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[Hairy Heron]

I should amend my comment and say that that at least applies to any of the online multiplayer modes I've ever played.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[Darinbob]

It's because you are special, with double jointed fingers able to wrap around a tiny controller and manipulate 2 joysticks simultaneously while pressing left+triangle+B. Just because I can't do it doesn't mean I'm lame, and just because you can do it doesn't mean everyone else can.

Consoles have a completely different viewpoint from PCs. On my PC I am currently playing a game that is more than ten years old. Is anyone on an XBox pulling out dusty boxes from their closets to replay them? Anyone on a console alt-tabbing out of an MMO to check their email? Consoles basically grew up around kids, designed for families who can't afford computers or understand them, whereas computer games are designed for people who already have computers. Consoles are all about having the latest gizmos, with corporate controlled games; PCs have a good market with independent and smaller game makers (though getting rarer), and most people don't buy a new one or upgrade every two years. Consoles are designed around the idea of playing on the couch or living room floor usually, and PCs and PC games are designed around a desk and chair.

When consoles are able to do what PCs can do, then they will essentially be the same as a PC - ie, add a mouse and keyboard and internet and hard drives and DVDs and a monitor, then you've essentially got a home computer.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[rabbit994]

FPSes on Consoles are quite different then on console. Most FPS on consoles are at ranges that would have already been decided and done for on the PC. Most FPSes on Consoles feel like knife fights with guns.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[carlzum]

Why don't console manufacturers offer games designed for a keyboard and mouse? If they're serious about competing with PC MMOs, why not address the biggest barrier to switching for gamers? They could still support a standard controller with macros and limited flexibility. Plus, branded keyboards and mice create additional peripheral sales. I'd bundle a wireless keyboard and mouse will new consoles. The console manufactures keep talking about their products as media centers. If they're serious, encourage people to stay on their PS3 or XBox to check email, surf the web, and play games only available on PC today.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think fuzzy was getting at the "shoot in the general direction of the enemy and get a head shot" aiming on console FPS games as opposed to the "I missed a head shot by 3 pixels" aiming on PC FPS games. Most console FPS games use this sort of aiming system for the simple reason that most people can't do pixel perfect aiming with a thumbstick. It also helps to increase the accessibility and fun factor of console FPS games.

You still have to know which weapon to use, when to fire, how many rounds to fire etc, but there is less precision involved in aiming. Note that I say less precision and not less skill. Someone who's played purely PC FPS games for 20 years won't instantly have godlike abilities at console FPS games.

I think this has a lot to do with why console game developers don't support using a mouse/keyboard in their games even if the console supports it natively. How do you balance the two aiming systems against each other without making one inherently better than the other?

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[CronoCloud]

Why don't console manufacturers offer games designed for a keyboard and mouse?

They did/do, ever since the PSone days (with certain PSone mouse centric games) just not many of them. Both current console MMORPG's on the PS2 have keyboard support and almost everyone had one, those that didn't were subtly encouraged to get one.

The console manufactures keep talking about their products as media centers. If they're serious, encourage people to stay on their PS3 or XBox to check email, surf the web, and play games only available on PC today.

Sony does, to a certain extent, though they don't promote or advertise such abilities to the mass market: http://www.playstation.com/ps3-openplatform/index.html

[CronoCloud@mideel ~]$ cat /etc/redhat-release
Yellow Dog Linux release 6.0 (Pyxis)
 
[CronoCloud@mideel ~]$ cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor : 0
cpu : Cell Broadband Engine, altivec supported
clock : 3192.000000MHz
revision : 5.1 (pvr 0070 0501)
 
processor : 1
cpu : Cell Broadband Engine, altivec supported
clock : 3192.000000MHz
revision : 5.1 (pvr 0070 0501)
 
timebase : 79800000
platform : PS3

And before the PS3, I did pretty much the same thing with my PS2 that had a Linux kit installed on it.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[CronoCloud]

Where have you been for the past 8 years. What does EVERY PS2 have on the front of it? 2 USB ports. And what could people plug into them? Keyboards for text chatting in the two PS2 MMORPGs, EQOA and FFXI.

What does a PS3 have on the front of it? 2 or 4 USB ports. And what can people plug into them? Just about anything, but personally I always have a keyboard and mouse plugged into my PS3.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[CronoCloud]

Anyone on a console alt-tabbing out of an MMO to check their email?

It's possible, Runescape does run on Firefox under Yellow Dog 6 on the PS3.

Consoles are designed around the idea of playing on the couch or living room floor usually, and PCs and PC games are designed around a desk and chair.

I actually have my consoles on a computer desk, connected to a 19" HDTV. It's a useful setup for me because I run Linux on my consoles, currently a PS3, but I've done it on a PS2 as well.

When consoles are able to do what PCs can do, then they will essentially be the same as a PC - ie, add a mouse and keyboard and internet and hard drives and DVDs and a monitor, then you've essentially got a home computer.

And what did most C64 owners use their machines for? Games. There were plenty that only played cartridge games on them with joysticks and didn't use the computer functionality much at all. What is a PS2 or PS3 with Linux installed but a home computer, that's why Sony always refers to the PS2 and PS3 as a "computer enterainment system"

This stuff isn't new, Sony released the PS2 Linux kit in 2001 in Japan, 2002 outside of Japan and the first PS2 MMORPG was released in February of 2003.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[MBGMorden]

As another user already pointed out: consoles today are often connected to HDTV's that rival computer monitors in display resolution. Most have hard drives. If you add a keyboard and mouse, and the ability to check email, surf the web, etc, then the whole idea of a "console" is gone. It's just become another PC platform that happens to have good game support.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[carlzum]

It's just become another PC platform that happens to have good game support.

I think that's MS' and Sony's strategy. They want people to use a console to buy and watch movies, play games, and organize music and photos. Why not include the few things most people still use a computer for? The features and support are built in. Embracing a keyboard and mouse as standard peripherals seems like an easy way to get people to spend more time in front of their console.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[Colonel Korn]

Console mmorpgs will likely be quasi fps games in a persistent world. When Sony released the new combat system for SWG the idea was to expand to consoles (or so I read on gaming news sites). It should give you a rough idea of what SOE's ideas were for console mmorpgs a couple years ago. For reference, the new SWG was a horrible embarrassment that finally sealed the coffin on a game that probably should have died awhile before it was introduced.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[drsquare]

I think it is a showstopper. MMO requires keyboard/mouse - period. Or at least, a standard console controller won't cut it.

Why? What is it about online multi-player gaming that requires a keyboard and mouse? Millions of people play sports games and FPSes online with controllers. The only real difference between those and an MMO is the number of players. Talking about WoW or Warhammer is laughable, as they were designed to be played with a keyboard and mouse.

I'd like you to explain why an MMO designed to be played with a controller, would be unplayable with a controller.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[Talgrath]

You can use USB mice and keyboards with the PS3.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[Anonymous Coward]

I wouldn't much mind an actual console MMOFPS, the style of Planetside. RPGs are not the only kind of online game, even though fantasy MMORPGs are the most oversaturated niche out there currently, at least in the 'persistent server state' category.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[Anonymous Coward]

Posting to undo mismoderation. Was laughing too hard at the phrase "serious console player" and clicked wrong.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[Anonymous Coward]

Take two players of roughly equal skill, give one keyboard and mouse, the other a gamepad. 'Nuff said.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[Anonymous Coward]

PS3 has 2 - 4 usb ports (depending on model) and firmware support for standard usb keyboard and mouse. It's also posible to connect bluetooth keyboard, mouse and headset.So there should be no problem with MMO controls.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[Merls the Sneaky]

switchblade for wow, Uses xbox 360 controller.

http://www.switchbladegaming.com/

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[Chris Mattern]

I think it is a showstopper. MMO requires keyboard/mouse - period. Or at least, a standard console controller won't cut it.

So have a keyboard and mouse. Your console supports a standard USB keyboard and mouse. What's the problem?

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[Chris Mattern]

f you add a keyboard and mouse, and the ability to check email, surf the web, etc, then the whole idea of a "console" is gone. It's just become another PC platform that happens to have good game support.

No, because you miss the most central point of the console: control of the hardware. A given console has only one possible set of video hardware, not dozens (or hundreds). One processor type. One motherboard. It's all the same, for everybody who uses it. And console makers leverage that control of the hardware to have control of the software, too. Console makers would LOVE their stuff to become "just another PC platform that happens to have good game support" because it would massively open up their market while they retain control of the hardware and software and they would make piles of money. The problem has been that that control limits the range of what the platform is capable of and also limits the range of what software is available, which has kept consoles just playing games.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[tukkayoot]

Who says that an MMO has to be extremely difficult/complicated?

I think the defining characteristics of an MMO are 1) large, online playerbase (it's in the name, after all) and 2) persistence.

It doesn't have to be an RPG, it doesn't have to be centered around questing/raiding.

Though I agree that for the current model of MMO, a keyboard/mouse combo is really the only way to go. However, this can be addressed on consoles via peripherals.

The main weakness of a console-based MMO, I think, would be a lack of user-interface customizability (at least to the degree seen in games like WoW). Heck, this is a showstopper for me on PC MMOs that lack interfaces that can't be extensively modified, such as EVE-Online.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[elrous0]

I'm sorry, did God anoint you as the chosen one to decide what is and isn't a real MMO while I wasn't looking?

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet apparently 10s of millions of people seem to manage playing them just fine on consoles. I think the issue is a personal failing on your own part in light of this. BTW I play FPS on both PCs and consoles and have no issues with either and never understand when people complain about this.

People eat McDonalds as well, even though it barely passes as food. Just because they're ignorant asses along the lines of yourself doesn't change matters.

It's not a personal failing, it's just that fucktards like you are content with a butter knife (such as a PS3 controller) and men like me demand high resolution and high speed via the katana (as in a gaming mouse and keyboard). I want precision and speed when I headshot your sorry ass.

Sorry, but those who play FPS on consoles are generally those "casual gamers" who have no chance in competitive play on a PC.

Go ahead, run your mouth. You know damned good and well that if you take on an experienced gamer and you've got a joypad and he has a mouse/keyboard setup that you're going to get hammered.. and at the moment mouse and keyboard are an afterthought even on the latest generation of USB equipped consoles.

Now STFU and prepared to get run over by a one-soldier pwnzer division.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[denton420]

Exactly.

I treat my xbox 360 exactly like I used to treat steam for my PC.

My PC was top of the line 2 years ago, now it cant run anything. I can shell out 2k to get a top of the line rig again... or I can just hook my xbox360 up to the 26" samsung I already have sitting on my desk as a monitor.

If more games included keyboard support for an MMO I would certainly consider getting it on the xbox360 since the graphics/performance would be much better.

The only major downside I can see is that the mod support would be very minimal and you would not be able to install 3rd party apps like parsers and UI addons.

I would love to see a better interface on the xbox360. I hope the next gen consoles include a full blown operating system. Now that would make me happy!

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[EchaniDrgn]

I think if done right Console MMOs will do very well.

When farming in WoW I actually hook a wireless PS3 controller up to my computer and it's very relaxing. I can sit back in my chair rather than having to stay within arms reach and if I need to talk to my Guild-mates I have Ventrillo.

I think the push to bring MMOs to the console is feasible but I have several things they should keep in mind. I have a PS3 so I'll use that as an example, I concede that the XBOX 360 would be equally up to the task of these suggestions.

1) Keep core game-play accessible to the main controller:
Additional non-combat options can use the keyboard but don't make that the main input device. I should be able to play a session without the keyboard and without feeling like I'm losing something. Both the PS3 and the XBOX 360 can have USB keyboards attached, and I believe they both have mini-keyboards that can attach to the controller itself. This is a design issue, not so much a hardware issue.

2) Enable voice chat in the game:
This lends itself to further reducing the dependency on the keyboard.

3) Accounts cross platform:
Make it so that I can log the same account on my PC and on my console. This makes it so that I can relax in front of the TV while farming/grinding but can get in front of my PC while Raiding. Also, in my house the PS3 also serves as out BluRay player, making time to monopolize the TV scarce.

4) Instance dungeons for individuals/small groups:
Being able to jump on and just play a run through a dungeon by myself in front of the TV would be nice now and again. Don't make this a must do, but having the option is nice.

I know it's presumptuous of me trying to tell them what to do, but I'd love to latch on to something like this.

Also, I have a PSP and love the thought of being able to level up my toon while on the go. Sitting at the university to pick up my wife and grind a few levels at the same time... Woo hoo! :-)

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[Khyber]

I don't know where you're going to buy your computer parts, but I can build a brand-new Crysis-spanking machine for around $450 if I recycle my case and power supply.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[carlzum]

You make my point better than I did. Gamers don't continue to play PC games because they're stubborn. Consoles lack a short of list of features, like user mods, indie games, and keyboard-centric games. MMO players spend a disproportionate amount of money on games, why not listen to them?

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[brkello]

That's fine, but I still don't want to play a console on my couch with a keyboard and a mouse. I like some games on the PC, some on the console. MMOs I prefer on my PC.

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[Cynic9]

Just curious, have you ever played the game? I can't see anyone who has played it before saying that it isn't a MMO. Let me know O_~

Re:Console controllers for long-term playing?

[denton420]

Lol wow please give me a short list I would LOVE to make this rig.

Re:goodluckwiththat

[Gewalt]

Yep it's not like anyone played FFXI or anything.

Ya, that's about right

Smedley and the rest of SOE haven't a clue

[Anonymous Coward]

SOE is one of those companies that bought their way into a market, lost the people who could produce quality products, and now flounder about trying to find relevance. Their games completely miss the point in that they don't give gamers today what they're looking for. EverQuest 2 was a product that would have been rather successful if it had come years earlier. SWG was a product that, while having its own problems, originally delivered what gamers were looking for. What did they do? They patched the game until there were no remnants of the original game and lo and behold, the player base evaporated. Vanguard is a joke; who the hell wants MORE of a grind in MMORPGs?

SOE is irrelevant as a gaming company. Maybe they can push some shovelware on the PSP and PS3 and earn themselves some income, but some serious changes would need to happen in order for them to ever produce a game that can affect a market the way EverQuest did.

Re:goodluckwiththat

[Hairy Heron]

So it was in the top 4 on the chart for 3 years and has averaged over 3x the subscribers needed to be profitable. Yep, what a huge failure it is.

Re:goodluckwiththat

[Gewalt]

And where would it be if they had made that a PC game? Right. Much higher and more profitable.

It's pretty safe to say that 'EverQuest'...

[Anonymous Coward]

has seen it's last decent game.

Perhaps I do mean to be an ass, but has anyone actually made a decent MMORPG for a console that has a remote chance of appealing to the same crowd as the PC MMORPG player that cut their teeth on the likes of UO and EQ?

No, it's pretty obvious what Sony is doing here. WoW stole all our EQ2 customers, so we're going to the place where there is a) no competition and b) a bigger install base. Nevermind the fact that consoles, even with text-thumbpads that have been coming out lately, are completely unsuited to deep role playing.

Re:It's pretty safe to say that 'EverQuest'...

[CronoCloud]

Perhaps I do mean to be an ass, but has anyone actually made a decent MMORPG for a console that has a remote chance of appealing to the same crowd as the PC MMORPG player that cut their teeth on the likes of UO and EQ?

Yes, Sony Online Entertainment with Everquest Online Adventures (Frontiers) I personally met a few players of PC EQ who preferred the gameplay of EQOA. They mostly complained that PC EQ was more tedius, and complained about corpse runs, game balance issues, and the lack of contiguous zones. You could walk/swim from Fayspires to the Kappa Fortress on Odus and not see a single load screen. Course that meant that EQOA is constantly streaming data on disc and is hard on PS2's. If your PS2 is getting ready to give you DRE's you'll notice it if you play EQOA on it.

And also Square-Enix with Final Fantasy XI, which had players of the PS2 version and PC version playing together on the same servers.

Nevermind the fact that consoles, even with text-thumbpads that have been coming out lately, are completely unsuited to deep role playing.

They are? Why not? It isn't a control issue.

Re:It's pretty safe to say that 'EverQuest'...

[Skuldo]

There is an Xbox 360 version of FFXI too.

The hurdles, they be many

[The Living Fractal]

- Modding community ... can they exist w/consoles?

- Alt-tab to a helpful wiki-based site for game
help? Can it be done on consoles?

- Game forums, still computer based? I guess that's ok...

- I assume communication will be done via voice? I shudder at the thought of hearing 11 year old immature idiots on the /trade channels. Keyboards and text chat had better be an option or I /quit.

- Can the consoles handle 50 people in the same scene at once all casting spells and generally being insane fucks? If not, give up until they can, because I don't want to see my FPS drop right when I get into the thick of things.

- My PS3 controller has ten buttons. That should be plenty to create a deep control scheme, if done right. That's the hurdle here: doing it right.

if they address this stuff I think it could be pretty sweet to be able to sit on my comfortable couch and play a MMO on my PS3. (yea yea I know, I can play an mmo on my big screen right now by using a computer anyway, but shush, we're not talking to you computer owning types here ;P)

Re:The hurdles, they be many

[Tatsh]

- Modding community ... can they exist w/consoles?

- Alt-tab to a helpful wiki-based site for game
help? Can it be done on consoles?

- Game forums, still computer based? I guess that's ok...

- I assume communication will be done via voice? I shudder at the thought of hearing 11 year old immature idiots on the /trade channels. Keyboards and text chat had better be an option or I /quit.

- Can the consoles handle 50 people in the same scene at once all casting spells and generally being insane fucks? If not, give up until they can, because I don't want to see my FPS drop right when I get into the thick of things.

- My PS3 controller has ten buttons. That should be plenty to create a deep control scheme, if done right. That's the hurdle here: doing it right.

if they address this stuff I think it could be pretty sweet to be able to sit on my comfortable couch and play a MMO on my PS3. (yea yea I know, I can play an mmo on my big screen right now by using a computer anyway, but shush, we're not talking to you computer owning types here ;P)

Modding community? Yes. Sony can set up a website and software that uploads. So it still requires a computer and all but they don't have to worry about the game runs. Instead they just have to worry about the creation software running on most people's computers. If Sony decides not to, then I suppose those who care will wait till PS3 is hacked to run Homebrew and 'backups' and hope that this works.

I think the second is definitely possible as long as you have a keyboard connected to your PS3.

Why not do communication via voice like every other game nowadays?

As far as I know, the PS3's processor is pretty powerful and could probably handle what you are mentioning.

Not sure what they should do about PS3 controller. I think they should put some effort in it but there will a be 'true player' trend where people use keyboard and/or mouse.

The biggest thing is that PS3 can be pushed with Sony-only MMOs. PS3 has got nothing except MGS4 for right now. They do not even get Final Fantasy exclusively since Xbox 360 will get it as well from now on. Pretty much every 'produce for Sony-only' developer contract/deal has expired, such as the GTA series and other games. I guess MGS went back to Sony-only for the time being.

Re:The hurdles, they be many

[Pazy]

If you want to play an MMO on your PS3 you could go get a copy of FFXI for the PS2. It still has loads of people and the controls work great. Im playing it on my Xbox 360 just now and I can navigate the menu's, sort my inventory and engage in combat using the controller easily. The only thing I had to do is a hook up a spare USB keyboard (which I already had hooked in to use MSN) so I can text chat to people. Im sure technically at the higher ends you can do more in a battle situation in a smaller time but the same could be said for most genre's. Side note, the LB button is a saving grace. I can hold the up on the stick to move forward then press LB and he keeps running. Good for running across maps when I want to go make a sandwich.

Re:The hurdles, they be many

[Anonymous Coward]

If we're going to do all that why not just skip it and get a computer? Buying all these devices to do what one device can do just seems wasteful.

Re:The hurdles, they be many

[drsquare]

None of those are really hurdles. Mods are not necessary for a game with a well-designed interface; they're a PC fetish, console gamers don't want them. Alt-tabbing to a cheat site is hardly something that's necessary or desireable. And I don't see why a console would suffer FPS-drop more than the typical PC.

Re:The hurdles, they be many

[Chris Mattern]

- Modding community ... can they exist w/consoles?

How do you mod an MMO? The clients are not made to be user-modifiable, for obvious reasons.

- Alt-tab to a helpful wiki-based site for game
help? Can it be done on consoles?

You can't have a computer? The wiki-sites will still be there, you'll just need another box to access them.

- I assume communication will be done via voice? I shudder at the thought of hearing 11 year old immature idiots on the /trade channels. Keyboards and text chat had better be an option or I /quit.

Every console in general use today supports the standard USB keyboard. That's how I chat when I play FFXI on my PS2.

- Can the consoles handle 50 people in the same scene at once all casting spells and generally being insane fucks? If not, give up until they can, because I don't want to see my FPS drop right when I get into the thick of things.

FFXI already does this on a PS2. Although there is some drop in FPS, it's not unmanageable and people do successfully play such battles on PS2s. Presumably present-generation consoles would do better.

- My PS3 controller has ten buttons. That should be plenty to create a deep control scheme, if done right. That's the hurdle here: doing it right.

FFXI's controller scheme is so natural that a lot of people (including me) who play it on the PC get a USB game pad so they can use it the same way a PS2 controller is used on the PS2 version.

if they address this stuff I think it could be pretty sweet to be able to sit on my comfortable couch and play a MMO on my PS3. (yea yea I know, I can play an mmo on my big screen right now by using a computer anyway, but shush, we're not talking to you computer owning types here ;P)

FFXI on the PS2, although it's now an obsolescent platform, is pretty good guide to doing it right.

Re:The hurdles, they be many

[The Living Fractal]

"How do you mod an MMO? The clients are not made to be user-modifiable, for obvious reasons."

Mostly through interface customization. It's huge in all of the big MMOs like WoW. It's not all interface customization, though. Check out Curse Gaming's WoW mod site if you want a better idea.

"You can't have a computer? The wiki-sites will still be there, you'll just need another box to access them."

It sounds lazy, but I don't want to have to get up walk 40 ft and bring the computer out of hibernation or screen saver just to do a quick check on something.

"Every console in general use today supports the standard USB keyboard. That's how I chat when I play FFXI on my PS2."

As long as the MMO makers for Sony realize this, all is well.

"FFXI already does this on a PS2. Although there is some drop in FPS, it's not unmanageable and people do successfully play such battles on PS2s. Presumably present-generation consoles would do better."

While today's consoles would play yesterday's games much faster, unfortunately that is not the case with new games. Take Oblivion as an easy example: The developers pushed the console to the limit, to the point that at the final battle of the game things were moving along at about 3-5fps for me. It really ruined the last part of the game for me.

Re:The hurdles, they be many

[The Living Fractal]

"None of those are really hurdles. Mods are not necessary for a game with a well-designed interface; they're a PC fetish, console gamers don't want them. Alt-tabbing to a cheat site is hardly something that's necessary or desireable. And I don't see why a console would suffer FPS-drop more than the typical PC."

Easy of you to say, but not true. Even games with a well-designed interface will be more popular if they allow players to modify the interface to their own wild abandon. Not only does that mean moving interface elements around, but also creating new elements like DPS meters, healing meters, threat meters, mob kill history and loot drops, calendars, class-specific skill helper tools, mapping tools, instance/dungeon strategy tools, etc.

You really think all of that will just be included when a game ships? No game in history has included all of that. Today, World of Warcraft has it all, and from the modding community.

Who said anything about a cheat site? You do realize that MMOs are extremely in depth and often a quest chain or an activity in game is highly complicated. These aren't cheat sites, they are a collection of information that saves you hours and hours of time over the course of your play of the game. Example: Thottbot, Allakhazam, WoWWiki, etc

A console, while presumably powerful in the graphics department, is not as powerful as my PC. Granted, my PC is not typical. I guess this means I can expect a lower level of graphics in a console based MMO than I am used to on my PC.

MMORPGs are a huge time sink. It's not practical to play many of them at the same time because you will get nowhere in any of them. Most people focus on one or two, but not much more. Because of this I am more likely to just keep playing my computer MMO because of all the things I just said above.

 

Re:The hurdles, they be many

[drsquare]

Easy of you to say, but not true. Even games with a well-designed interface will be more popular if they allow players to modify the interface to their own wild abandon.

Yet hundreds of millions of games have been bought and loved, despite having no interface modifications.

You really think all of that will just be included when a game ships? No game in history has included all of that.

If a game's designed well it won't need any of that. PC games tend to suffer from feature and interface cancer, there's no reason why consoles have to fall down the same hole. I don't have a burning need to see how much DPS I'm doing, or a meter to show who's dangerous. Never in the history of gaming have I ever needed to see a list of what I've killed. This seems to be a PC fetish only.

A console, while presumably powerful in the graphics department, is not as powerful as my PC. Granted, my PC is not typical. I guess this means I can expect a lower level of graphics in a console based MMO than I am used to on my PC.

Fortuanately, a console MMO will be aimed at normal gamers, not comic book guys with £5000 computers who spend more time modifying and talking about a game than actually playing it. No offence.

MMORPGs are a huge time sink.

Those designed for PC fanboys, yes. There's no reason an MMO can't be made shorter and more fun, so they can be played by people who don't shit in socks. Again, no offence.

My main point here, is you're looking at things from a PC perspective, and assuming that a console game would just be a PC game but on a different format. A game designed specifically for console play would not suffer from any of the problems you complain about, as they're PC-specific problems.

Re:The hurdles, they be many

[ToasterMonkey]

- Modding community ... can they exist w/consoles?

- Alt-tab to a helpful wiki-based site for game
help? Can it be done on consoles?

- Game forums, still computer based? I guess that's ok...

Honestly, I wouldn't shed a tear if we lost any of those features. I'm not saying I haven't used any of these, just that if they're really necessary, the game is broke. Client side mods remind me of an old Quake proxy program that never outright cheated for you, as in auto aim, or exploiting one of the MANY hacks available, wall hack, kick protection, etc. It just timed item respawns, notified you when stuff like quad damage was about to pop, and other shady things along those lines. I remember it was debatable at the time wether this was cheating or not, something rating a kick/ban. In my opinion, it's not about drawing a line between what's cheating or not. Most popular MMO mods I've seen generally aren't considered 'cheating'. The MMO developers designed the game to prohibit the most serious offenses. Some mods though, that use external programs and stuff might be pushing it :)

I think it's about playing the same game everyone else is playing. Single player games, hack and cheat away. Online, or massively online? Hell no. The onus should be on the game developer to provide a balanced experience for all players and fix what's broke. If a mandatory quest is too hard to figure out, causing people to drop out of the game for help, it's broke. If it isn't mandatory and it's hard, it was probably meant to be, and you're cheating yourself. Maybe I'm just a crusty old gamer, but if buy a game, I want the whole experience, inside the game. Strategy guides, ehhh, only as a last resort in an impassable situation :)

Also, consider that while in game web browsing may be impossible right now on a console, what exactly would your PC be doing during this time? Probably parked on a forum or wki-based site like you mentioned right?

Re:The hurdles, they be many

[The Living Fractal]

Yet hundreds of millions of games have been bought and loved, despite having no interface modifications.

What if the same game is released on PC and console, and they coexist on the same servers? I've no idea if this is in the future, but imagine this: What happens if the mods the PC users are using provide obvious benefit (note: they do), and the players are more capable in things like raiding (note: they are)? Who would want to play it on a console, and beyond that, wouldn't this cause segregation? "Oh that guy is on PS3, we can't bring him because he doesn't know how much threat he is pulling on the Boss, he'll pull aggro often, and wipe us."

Look, I said it was a *hurdle*, not an impenetrable barrier. It would only really apply in an uneven situation like cross-platform, which might not even happen anyway.

Those designed for PC fanboys, yes. There's no reason an MMO can't be made shorter and more fun, so they can be played by people who don't shit in socks. Again, no offence.

MMOG, sure. MMORPG, not really. I mean, sure you can spend a half hour playing an MMORPG. But you aren't going to get to the max level of any current MMORPG in anything less than several weeks at that rate, and you will always be behind the curve from the beginning. If you can still enjoy it, more power to you, but most people who play MMORPGs do not enjoy being way behind everyone else, so if they don't have the time they simply don't play. Why should console MMORPGs be different?

I'll grant I'm taking a PC perspective, but why does the machine make any difference? Hardware is irrelevant. A PS3 is practically a PC anyway -- the only difference is how much more locked down a PS3 is than a PC, and that's exactly the reason for the hurdles I brought up in the first place.

Re:The hurdles, they be many

[drsquare]

What if the same game is released on PC and console, and they coexist on the same servers? I've no idea if this is in the future, but imagine this: What happens if the mods the PC users are using provide obvious benefit (note: they do), and the players are more capable in things like raiding (note: they are)?

If the game is not supposed to have mods, then they wouldn't be on the PC version either. You've just invented a straw man. As said before, a console MMO would only work if it's designed from the ground up to work on consoles, not just a port of a PC game.

MMOG, sure. MMORPG, not really. I mean, sure you can spend a half hour playing an MMORPG. But you aren't going to get to the max level of any current MMORPG in anything less than several weeks at that rate, and you will always be behind the curve from the beginning. If you can still enjoy it, more power to you, but most people who play MMORPGs do not enjoy being way behind everyone else, so if they don't have the time they simply don't play. Why should console MMORPGs be different?

What do current MMOs have to do with anything, when we're talking about a new console MMO? You're looking at everything from the old time-intensive, interface-fiddling PC MMO paradigm.

Re:goodluckwiththat

[Hairy Heron]

Protip: There was a PC version.
http://www.amazon.com/Final-Fantasy-XI-Online-Pc/dp/B0000E2OBD
Did you even spend the 2 seconds it would have taken to find that out?

Re:goodluckwiththat

[Grave]

Uhm.. FFXI *IS* a PC game. It's also been ported to PS2 and XBOX 360, but it most definitely is on PC as well.

Monster Hunter?

[Anonymous Coward]

come on, steal MH3 back! Pay Capcom more money!
you saw what MH2 and 2G did for PSP, YOU NEED IT FOR the PS3!!!!

Re:goodluckwiththat

[Gewalt]

Ok, so how many of those subscribers on that chart were from consoles then?

Re:goodluckwiththat

[Hairy Heron]

The PS2 version wasn't a port. It was the original released version. The PC version came out 6 months after the PS2 version came out.

Re:goodluckwiththat

[Hairy Heron]

From the figures I've seen from various sites something around half to 2/3rds are from console subscriptions.

I'm a PC gamer

[Mente]

However, you can get a keyboard/mouse for your PS3, so I really don't see the issue. I would assume that they would be focusing on the PS3 for these games.

One of the rumors back in the day was that one of the reasons behind the NGE for SWG was that they simplified the game so they could port it to the PS3 easier. Far fewer controls.

Re:I'm a PC gamer

[Anonymous Coward]

Guitar Hero and Rock band would like to have a chat with you.

And I know you're gonna say "But the controlelrs are bundled with the games!:, well whats so hard about shoving a mouse/keyboard into a box?

Re:I'm a PC gamer

[zippthorne]

Yeah, but what most people forget about is that the keyboard+mouse combo has an implied third component.

A desk.

You gonna put your console in the office, now?

Re:I'm a PC gamer

[CronoCloud]

Did you forget about the PS2's network adapter? Plenty of games built around that, and it wasn't bundled for a couple of years.

Re:I'm a PC gamer

[CronoCloud]

Card tables, laptop tables, tv trays, writing type lapboards. It's not rocket science. You can even put the keyboard on your lap and an optical mouse beside you on the couch.

Re:I'm a PC gamer

[Anonymous Coward]

But at that stage, why not just use a damn computer?

Re:I'm a PC gamer

[CronoCloud]

Because a good gaming capable computer will cost more, sure some of the newegg obsessed builder types could do a $600 rig, but most people buy off the rack. Also the experience is plug n' play, less of a hassle.

Besides, doing any of my suggestions isn't that hard.

SWG was the start.

[Beer_Smurf]

To those that witnessed the dumbing down and destruction of Star Wars Galaxies, this is not news.

WoW beat them to the punch :)

[bubkus_jones]

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/moltencore/

Yeah, well.......maybe not

Re:WoW beat them to the punch :)

[CronoCloud]

That sort of thing makes Blizzard assholes, since their first game ever was a SNES game with much better graphics than that and they know it. And some of their later games like Warcraft II and Diablo got ported to the PSone. Now they're just another bunch of PC only snob developers. They should know better, but they don't. And now there's dev houses doing Diablo clones on the PS2/PS3 that look better than anything Blizzard has done. Diablo 3 is nothing, it looks like an enhanced Snowblind engine game. I'd have more respect for them if they weren't lazy bumfucks that took 5 years or more to do a sequel that is obviously borrowing ideas from Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance and Champions of Norrath.

Holly EQ flashback - its Fippy Darkpaw time again!

[GlobalColding]

I can't wait *twitch* to grind Everquest levels all over again, but this time on a PSP! "WTB SoW and a port to North Karana" "Who KSed my Queen Kliknik?!" "I am so powwah, Qeynos am teh suxx0r!" "WTB Crushbone belts" "TRAIN TO THE BB ZONELINE!" zOMGZ *eye twitch*

The MMO business model is not sustainable

[bluefoxlucid]

You cannot grow and sustain the MMO business model in a free market without an economy. An MMO typically requires a continuous subscription, or allows free play for a one-time fee but then puts the financial burden on the service provider. As more MMOs enter the market, more avenues for paying out money become open to the player; this means more $30/mo bills (or however much, $10 even), and thus less interest in joining more MMOs (hmm I've got WoW, everquest, UO, FFXI, etc etc etc... 15 MMOs I'm paying $450/mo total wow! I'm tapped!)

Somehow SecondLife manages on one-time membership fees, I'm unsure exactly how they keep a revenue stream. What I am sure of is that they do need a constant revenue stream, which means a constant influx of new players or a way to get money from current players or someone else; so does everyone else. This means, as far as pay-per-month subscriptions go, creating an endless stream of independent MMOs will not scale, and eventually the worlds will be mostly empty save for a few popular ones and thus only a few can make money.

Seriously, $50/month, I can buy a whole new Wii or Gamecube game each month. Why do I want to spend $150/mo to have FFXI, WoW, UO, Matrix Online, Pirates Online, whatever the hell else? And then see a new one I want too, and join that? Eventually I have to leave one game, or stop joining new games!

Re:The MMO business model is not sustainable

[FishWithAHammer]

Somehow SecondLife manages on one-time membership fees, I'm unsure exactly how they keep a revenue stream.

Second Life has monthly subscriptions that give you some perks and stuff. There are also "tier fees" for virtual land (own X m^2 of virtual land, pay USD $Y).

Re:The MMO business model is not sustainable

[anubis7733]

I think I would have to disagree. They could work with a one time fee when you buy the game, or you could have a subscription system like XBox Live, in combination with micro transactions. It would be either a small initial investment or a monthly fee that covers all games. Sony would then give a cut of the subscription fees to every company running an MMO. The small transactions would allow for a constant revenue stream as new items could be created or extra levels and skills and classes downloaded. Then you'd be back down to just $10 or $20 a month if on a subscription plan with small payments if you decide to update your games. I once again worry about the interface. They will really need to ensure that communication is easy and not too annoying. If this means using a USB keyboard instead of a wireless headset, I don't think it would be too hard to get people to plug in a keyboard. Headsets could still be used within a party for easier communication.

Re:The MMO business model is not sustainable

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhmmm, cancel your account. I have a wow account an EQ account and a LOTRO account but never all 3 at once. If you want to try another cancel the first one first. Your characters do not get deleted and you can always reactivate later if you want to.

You seriously couldn't figure this one out?

Re:The MMO business model is not sustainable

[CronoCloud]

Don't forget people buying L$ directly on the Lindex, Linden Lab gets a tiny cut of that but it adds up.

Re:The MMO business model is not sustainable

[NonSequor]

Every MMO has a lifespan. They launch, they find an audience (or don't), and generally they eventually have that audience dwindle down to nothing.

Over the course of that lifespan, if they have a decent launch and manage to sustain an audience for a reasonable amount of time, then they should be able to earn enough to cover their development costs. Keep in mind that most MMOs follow a box+subscription model so they get money for every new subscriber regardless of how long that subscriber stays. Generally the developer begins making plans for a new MMO as the previous one begins to have its population drop.

Players follow a similar pattern. They generally devote most of their effort to one MMO for as long as it maintains their interest and then start looking for another one as their interest fades (which tends to coincide with the population drop-off of their MMO).

Re:The MMO business model is not sustainable

[GrumblyStuff]

Waitwaitwait... SecondLife is a game now? When did this happen?!

I thought it was a place for furies, virtualized company storefronts, and flying digital penises.

Re:The MMO business model is not sustainable

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a pretty strange argument. The idea isn't to get one person to play dozens of MMOGs, it's to draw in those who aren't playing any, or who are bored of their current online addiction and would like to try another. I'm theoretically a hardcore gamer who loves the idea of persistent worlds, but I haven't played any MMOG religiously since Ultima Online turned to crap about 7-8 years ago. It's not for lack of interest; I would be extremely interested in playing a game with UO instead of EQ as its spiritual predecessor. Something like Horizons was supposed to be.

Making yet another EQ/WoW clone is clearly an idiotic business decision. Making a game that will appeal to another market segment is probably a good idea.

Re:The MMO business model is not sustainable

[elrous0]

Sorry, we forgot to CC you the memo.

Re:The MMO business model is not sustainable

[Khyber]

there are those of us in SL that do things like make virtual sandbox FPS games and stuff in it.

Who cares? We're still boycotting Sony, remember?

[Anonymous Coward]

Since the copy 'protection' scandal Sony might, as far as I'm concerned, not exist. Or perhaps it's better to say that it were better had Sony not existed. Oh, and Sony's bad rep is not just deserved for it's little CD scandal, but I hear their customer support is lousy too. Just say no.

Re:goodluckwiththat

[lysergic.acid]

grasping at straws to avoid admitting you were wrong is a bit immature don't you think? maybe you should do a little more research yourself before making wild assumptions without any supporting evidence.

if FPS and RTS games can be made to work on consoles, then MMOs can surely be migrated to consoles. most MMOs are MMORPGs--which are just regular RPGs with a social element derived from the online multiplayer gameplay. and there have been RPGs on consoles since the days of the Atari 2600 (Dragonstomper). i don't see how adding internet multiplayer to a thriving, and highly successful, console gaming genre would be a bad idea.

aside from internet connectivity, there is nothing about MMOs that makes them the exclusive domain of computer gaming. and now that internet access is an integral component of the current-gen consoles, that barrier is moot. aside from player preference, there's no reason not to choose a console over a PC for an MMO platform.

Right

[icsx]

Good luck with that. I see clear advantage with mouse and keyboard with multiple bindings to keys over console controller. Sure, you can buy those separately to consoles but that costs extra money. They should ship them along consoles by default and then maybe they would have a chance beating PC.

And more MMOs to fail...

[gweihir]

They really think they have a shot at time-intensive games on the _console_, that has its primary business in fast-paced games you can play quickly, without learning much, when you have a bit of time? Have they lost their mind?

Incdentially, this will accelerate the already in-progress demise of Sony.

Re:And more MMOs to fail...

[CronoCloud]

They really think they have a shot at time-intensive games on the _console_, that has its primary business in fast-paced games you can play quickly, without learning much, when you have a bit of time? Have they lost their mind?

Not all console gamers are "Madden and other sports game only dorm/frat boy/ESPN adult fanguy gamers" Ogre Battle? Final Fantasy tactics? Disgaea? Persona? Final Fantasy XI/XII? Oblivion?

Looks like I won't be...

[Chas]

getting any of Sony's rootkits...

I mean...I mean playing any of Sony's roo^H^H^H^Massively Multiplayer Online games.

Not that I'd consider any of their crap anyhow.

Re:Looks like I won't be...

[elrous0]

How would Sony rootkit their own console?

Re:Looks like I won't be...

[Chas]

Since I don't own, and won't buy a console, I won't be playing their games.

Console MMO = good times for 14 year olds

[Grendel_Prime]

Consoles appeal to:

1.) "Hardcore" gamers -- primarily 14 year old homophobic racists
2.) Adult gamers -- 30-something PS3 owners who play after work and on weekends
3.) "Casual" gamers -- mainly Wiinies, young kids, women, senior citizens

Out of these, the only ones serious enough about gaming to put the time and energy into grinding would be the "hardcore" gamers. Great just what we need, MORE unsupervised kids running around in a persistent virtual environment yelling racial homophobic epithets while teabagging every other player they just teamkilled on a quest. This should make Sony lots of money!

Yet another sign of just how out-of-touch Sony is with its consumers.

Re:Console MMO = good times for 14 year olds

[CronoCloud]

Going to have to disagree a bit with you on this. I think group 2 will also play MMORPG's on their consoles if they find them appealing, but if they do they won't play much else.. Group 3 might also play an MMORPG, stay-at-home-moms have the time if their kids are old enough. (I know several mom's who devote a TON of time to Second Life), senior citizens too. The oldest D&D players are probably senior citizen's now, and they might find MMORPG's more appealing than trying to get people together for a tabletop session.

Don't forget, those that played RPG's on Apple II's, C64's, NES's and SNES's are used to grinding, and most of those folks would be in their 30's or older.

Re:Console MMO = good times for 14 year olds

[Grendel_Prime]

You make good points on other types of people that could play MMORPGs on a console, but my point about this is really that the people you point out will, all added up, be less than 5% of the total population on MMORPGs on consoles. On PCs it might be more like 10%, but never on a console.

So what?

[Inominate]

Every game Sony touches turns to shit. They can take a good game and stop people from playing it, they're even good enough at it that they can make the game free and still have nobody play it.

Moving to consoles isn't going to help them, but at least pc gamers won't have to watch them ruin more games.

MMORPG on consoles is WAY overdue

[Anonymous Coward]

I know this comment will probably get buried but I am one of the people who CAN NOT wait for MMORPGs to hit the console. I will resub EQ (or any other MMO) as soon as it will work on my PS3.

Keyboard and mouse to me is work. I have worked at a computer with a keyboard and mouse 40 hours every week for a decade now. Computers just do not equal gaming to me anymore even though I used to love computer games.

Let me kick back in the lazy boy with my PS3, 60 inch HD TV and a controller and play the MMORPG. Do that and I'll pay whatever you charge.

Re:MMORPG on consoles is WAY overdue

[CronoCloud]

I know this comment will probably get buried but I am one of the people who CAN NOT wait for MMORPGs to hit the console. I will resub EQ (or any other MMO) as soon as it will work on my PS3.

Your wait was not needed.

http://everquestonlineadventures.station.sony.com/ It's a PS2 game but works just fine on the PS3. You did do the smart thing and buy a PS3 with PS2 backwards compatibility. If you didn't, PS2's are cheap, and that'll run on a slim PS2.

It's available on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Everquest-Online-Adventures-Frontiers-Playstation-2/dp/B0000CDZB9

There's also Final Fantasy XI: http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/

You have to create a PS2 partition on your PS3 hard drive for that one, and it won't work on a slim PS2 without a hard drive.

Re:Holly EQ flashback - its Fippy Darkpaw time aga

[CronoCloud]

Ha ha, on EQOA on the PS2 was pretty much like that. Trying to remember if there were Crushbone orcs, I remember Hatebone's.

Re:Am I the only one?

[Anonymous Coward]

>OR do I find the MMO genra over-ratted.

Yes, there are definitely too many rats.

Also, your command of written English is very poor - you should talk to your Mom about it and get help.

Re:goodluckwiththat

[IKnwThePiecesFt]

I'm pretty sure it was the other way around. Came out on PC first and PS2 about 6 months down the line (as I recall when the PS2 launch happened everyone was talking about the amazing influx of newbies without keyboards). That being said, I don't know if I'd consider it a port or if it was developed simultaneously.

EQ3? We'll just have to see.

[some old guy]

I, for one, welcome our new PS3 Everquest overloads. I'm not optimistic about the quality of a Sony-produced PS3 EQ implementation, but I'm willing to give Sony a chance to let a 3rd party team re-develop the brand. Wasn't some Korean shop doing something called Never-Ending Saga along these lines? EQOA (after the Frontiers expansion) for the PS2 was a nice platform for it's time, but aside from minor tweaks and a few occasional bits of new event-based content SOE seemed to let it rot on the vine once they had a profitable player base. Pity, because it was a great community in it's day. This is coming from a rather gimp but fun-loving 60 Shadow Knight on Ferran's Hope. :)

Indie games in the living room?

[tepples]

Consoles basically grew up around kids, designed for families who can't afford computers

And in this recession, families still can't afford a computer for each member of the household, and PC game developers still can't make PC games that use four USB gamepads, a USB hub, and TV output.

Consoles are all about having the latest gizmos, with corporate controlled games; PCs have a good market with independent and smaller game makers (though getting rarer), and most people don't buy a new one or upgrade every two years. Consoles are designed around the idea of playing on the couch or living room floor usually, and PCs and PC games are designed around a desk and chair.

Then which platform is about indie games in the living room?

You forgot one thing: code signing

[tepples]

For under $300, I can get a Wii with Internet Channel and a keyboard. Under your criteria, this would qualify it as a PC. But I disagree:

If you add a keyboard and mouse

Wii has the USB keyboard and the Wii Remote.

and the ability to check email, surf the web, etc

Wii has Internet Channel, based on Opera 9 and Flash 7. But I'll admit that I haven't yet tried it with the popular webmails.

then the whole idea of a "console" is gone.

It's still there: Wii uses code signing to lock out homebrew.

It's just become another PC platform that happens to have good game support.

PCs out of the box can run games from smaller publishers. Consoles can't.

Re:goodluckwiththat

[Wain13001]

PS2 version was developed and released first. In NA, they released the windows version before the PS2 version, but the game had already been running for a year in Japan.

Uhm, chat?

[Anonymous Coward]

Forget that, how about chatting with other players? Typing anything substantial with one of those on-screen keyboards would be torture.

If they use teamspeak, who really wants to hear a squeaky pre-pubescent call them a "lame noob!!!".

Re:goodluckwiththat

[Chris Mattern]

This confuses a lot of people in the US because of how it was released. In the US, it came out on the PC first and on the PS2 about six months later. But it was released in Japan about a year and a half before the US PC release--and came out first for the PS2, with the JP PC release coming some time later. FFXI was developed for the PS2 and then ported to the PC.

Slow Down Cowboy!

Slashdot requires you to wait between each successful posting of a comment to allow everyone a fair chance at posting a comment.

It's been 434 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment

Chances are, you can fucking type.

Console, for the genre where PC has all advantages

[Lonewolf666]

-Mouse/Keyboard control. Way superior, and while some consoles offer USB ports to add those, each PC already has it.
-Lots of harddisk space for big game maps. Consoles are getting there, but the PC usually is more upgradeable when you run out of space. And due to patches, you want the game on a writable medium.
-Copy protection is (almost) irrelevant, because the game needs the central server and login by design.

Sony are just stupid ;-)

Re:Console, for the genre where PC has all advanta

[WDot]

That's the thing--consoles are at the point where they have those advantages. You can plug a USB mouse and keyboard into a PS3. It comes with a decently sized hard drive by default (I don't play too many MMO's, but I've never played one that took even close to 40GB of space). Copy protection would be irrelevant here too. Sony technically could be a dick and tie Everquest 3 to your particular PS3, but technologically there's nothing keeping them from letting you download the client for free on any PS3 as long as you have valid account info.

I am skeptical about the PSP though. It has storage, but no keyboard/ mouse. It's possible to come up with a gameplay interface that doesn't require a keyboard or mouse, but I don't think voice chat only is the way to go.

Doesn't cover zero-subs MMOs like GW

[Anonymous Coward]

MMOGchart is stuck in yesterday's subscription-based world.

Zero-subs MMOs like Guild Wars have audiences of millions, yet such games don't figure on those charts at all. They're exceedingly popular because the lack of subs puts casual players on a par with hardcore, and you're effectively "subscribed forever". They're cost-effective even when you can play only once every few months, whereas games with monthly subs are extortionate for such players.

And as reported this week, zero-sub episodal MMOs and micro-transaction funded games are all the rage among developers now.

So don't rely too strongly on that chart, as it's a very partial and slanted view. The only really undeniable statistic from it is that WoW is still doing very well.

Blessing in disguise

[n0nsensical]

Sony already wrecked their only MMO that was even once good, EverQuest, so it's probably for the best that they keep their output off the PC.

Re:Console, for the genre where PC has all advanta

[ToasterMonkey]

As the other guy mentioned, consoles already have those features. Hell, the PS3 even supports bluetooth K&M, something most desktop PC's don't have built in.

-Copy protection is (almost) irrelevant, because the game needs the central server and login by design.

Errm... how is this an advantage or disadvantage to anything here?

If they were really necessary anyway Sony might subsidize the cost of a USB or BT K&M with the purchase of "Shiny New MMO, Deluxe Edition"

FFXI

[Cynic9]

I was a PC gamer for a very long time. After I bought my 60' HDTV I installed FFXI on my 360 and haven't played any PC games since. I get home from work and when I play my game I want to be on a comfortable couch with a big TV and my 5.1, not at a desk to replicate where I've been all day long. The FFXI control/macro scheme works fine. If SQUARE/ENIX releases some future MMORPG on 360/PS3, I bet it would kick ass. Just my 2 gil.

Who gives a fuck about numbers?

[everphilski]

If the game is profitable, who gives a fuck about total subscribers? As a customer, I don't.

I'm one of those light blue triangles that still plays EQ1. My wife plays EQ2. Still pumping out expansions and features in both games. We both played WoW for a time (and I've played Vanguard, LOTRO, Hellgate, etc.) and we keep coming back because most every "modern" MMORPG is a washed down game built to appeal to the least common denominator of a gamer. WoW is screwing us over by providing a model for "success" that attracts brain-dead gamers but doesn't provide real substance.

My belief is I'd rather have 100 MMO's that are profitable with a few ten thousand subscribers that provide diverse gameplay options than 10 MMO's with millions of subscribers that wash the game down and appeal to the least common denominator. In the former, the gamer wins, in the latter, we lose.

And I'm not the only one: our guild in EQ1 saw many people leave when WoW came out, and most trickled back. I'm curious what WoW will look like in 8 years. You will probably see the same curve of growth and decline as the shine wears off.

after very careful consideration sir

[shnull]

i have to come to the conclusion that your system .... sucks .... they forgot about the second 'm' obviously