Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Malaysian Blogger On Trial For Sedition

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on from the because-creating-martyrs-is-good-for-civil-obedience dept.

neonsignal writes "Raja Petra Kamarudin, a Malaysian blogger, is in court under the Internal Security Act, under which he can be detained indefinitely. He is well known for his commentary on the Malaysian government, and was arrested after a piece on the murder of a Mongolian woman, who was allegedly killed by two policeman and an associate of the deputy prime minister."

42 of 183 comments (clear)

  1. Fuck "sedition" by QuantumG · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Man, it's about time that countries which value free speech got rid of sedition laws.. so as to send a clear message to countries that don't. What constitutes "sedition" is so vague, anyway, that the laws should be struck on just that basis.

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
    1. Re:Fuck "sedition" by slughead · · Score: 3, Informative

      We've had one since 1940. Thank you, FDR!

      --
      Latewire
    2. Re:Fuck "sedition" by KGIII · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think you posted in haste in an attempt to get your comment in quickly? This is MALAYSIA and this is NOT an area known for freedom of speech as near as I can tell.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  2. When in Malaysia.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    .. I read in the local English news paper about the "victory" of a muslim group that stopped the government changing a women's ID card which had her religion as Muslim.

    Since she converted to Christianity she wanted her ID card changed. Yeah, that was big news at the time and gives on an insight into how backwards the place can be.

    I say backwards not because it's about religion, but because I can't believe these strangers that don't know her have nothing better to do then demand the government not give her a new ID if she wants one because "if you're Muslim, you're always Muslim"

    Posting Anon - I might still need to go back some day.

    1. Re:When in Malaysia.. by rhyder128k · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Or this woman who been jailed for her terrorist poetry.

      http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7084801.stm

      --
      Michael Reed, freelance tech writer.
    2. Re:When in Malaysia.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      First sign of a problem was that her faith was on a government card at all.

    3. Re:When in Malaysia.. by SupremoMan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I say backwards because the ID designates your religion....

    4. Re:When in Malaysia.. by Chicken_Kickers · · Score: 5, Informative

      O.k. I'm a Malaysian (Malay) and I consider myself to be quite progressive in my views. Yet, what the rest of the world does not realise is that Malaysia is sitting on a highly unstable racial powder keg. It's like a bad Tolkien-knockoff fantasy kingdom. We have the Malays who are something like the Hobbits in temperament, the Chinese who are like Dwarfs and the Indians who are just unpredictable. The Malays rule the country, the Chinese controls the economy and the Indians corner the legal and medical professions. It has been like this since the British dramatically changed the demographic from almost all Malay to something like 65% Malay, 26% Chinese, Indian 8% in less than 100 years. It didn't help that the British used divide and conquer to keep everyone in check, by assigning roles to each race. The end result is that each race wants to keep their identity, religion and language intact. Keep this in mind when you read anything about Malaysia. Malays by history and by law, are Muslims and it is firmly tied to our identity. This is why there is such a big hue and cry over the case that the AC mentioned as it is perceived more as a slap to the racial identity, than just to the religion. To Malaysian's credit, we managed to live together for 50 years, barring several flare ups. We did this by very carefully tip-toeing around controversial issues and making deals and compromises between the major races. Undeniably, this means that many issues have been swept under the rug but progress has been made. Unfortunately, many people, like the blogger mentioned (who is a Malay) are impatient and want change NOW, without realising the inherent instability of the country. My view is that change, towards a more liberal political and social environment is inevitable as the country matures but we must do it slowly and with deliberation.

    5. Re:When in Malaysia.. by rtb61 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The catch with that is change does not occur unless, instability forces it. A minority of people speaking out who a willing to accept the risks of doing so are the ones who force positive change. The only other change that occurs, is negative change, the ones who wish to maintain a facade of traditional values, of religious observance, while they corruptly loot the country to sate their own greed and lusts. That is the reality and the religious crap is just that 'crap' a diversion to keep the poor general populace focused on other issues, rather than their livings conditions versus the living conditions of the rich and greedy or that the legal system is distorted to provide one set of laws to protect the elite and another set of laws to persecute the rest.

      Change can happen very fast, it is naturally always disruptive, that is the nature of change and it is most destructive when it is blocked from happening and comes as a dam bursting. Do you know when this happens, it happens when the corrupt leaders at the top are focussed on keeping everything they have stolen and will do anything to keep the corrupt system going as it is, with nothing but platitudes of offer for the rest of the population.

      Any government with sedition laws sucks, there is no excuse, they are full of it and those leaders should be treated with contempt by every one who values freedom and democracy. Slavery was a cultural thing for centuries in a lot of countries, north, south, east and west and today very thought of sickens and infuriates most reasonable people, so culture is just a weak excuse not a valid reason, neither is racism ie. they are all citizens of Malaysia so it is Malays who rule the country, Malays who control the economy and Malays who prosper in the legal and medical profession, if you see it any other way, recognise yourself, you are racist and a bigot.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    6. Re:When in Malaysia.. by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 4, Insightful

      7th-century barbarism? Try 17th - as late as the 1690s, people in some European countries were still liable to be executed, not only for leaving Christianity, but for switching to the wrong sort of Christianity.

      This in no wise excuses what is done to people in some Muslim countries today should they try to renounce Islam; I'm merely pointing out that it's not been so long since such treatment was commonplace in the West as well.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    7. Re:When in Malaysia.. by ragethehotey · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nice job completely leaving out that her conviction was overturned.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samina_Malik

    8. Re:When in Malaysia.. by kanweg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yup, and if you don't recognize it, then you invade a country to find a dictator with WMDs and lots of oil and subsequently find out you started a civil war from which you cannot withdraw as well.

      The former Yugoslavia was stable under dictator Tito for 50 years. The quick change after that killed thousands.

      Change must be there, but it must be slow.

      I think that the slow but constant changes in Cuba instigated by Raoul Castro are great.

      They guy is probably right that his country is a powder keg. It is smug to be on a high horse here.

      Bert

    9. Re:When in Malaysia.. by XchristX · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Given that Malaysia practices the most cruel and frightening kind of racial discrimination against Chinese and Indian minorities in all of South-East Asia, with their Nazi-like (and I'm not Godwinning here) racist ideologies of Ketuanan Melayu (Malay Supremacy) and Bumiputra (meaning "sons of the soil, which literally resembles Nazi Germany's "Blut und Boden" or "Blood and Soil") and engages in state sponsored discrimination against Indians and Chinese, I would imagine that some kind of aggressive change is long pending. That or remove the minorities from the country before the Malay racists conduct genocide on them all (which is their eventual intent). I;ve spoken to many overseas Chinese and Indians in he country, and most are literally afraid for their lives. Parts of Kuala Lumpur look like Russian Shtetls, or the Warsaw Ghettoes of WW-II, with violent, Malay mob-imposed racial segregation, discrimination and stigmatization.

      Notice how the racist GP stigmatizes, demonizes and dehumanizes Chinese and Indian minorities as "not tied to identity", just like the Nazis stigmatized Jews as "alien non-Aryans and unbound to the blood and soil of Germany", or whatever.

      Numerous international NGO's have detailed files on the massive levels of Jim Crow-style racial stigmatization of minorities that takes place across Malay society, their media, their government, all their major institutions, and the like.

      Malaysia is a massive genocide waiting to happen, unless some kind of change isn't implemented NOW, preferably through international condemnations and sanctions of some kind.

      --
      l'Homme n'est Rien l'Oeuvre Tout: Gustave Flaubert to George Sand
    10. Re:When in Malaysia.. by TheLink · · Score: 2, Informative

      There was a higher percentage of chinese during the time of British (before 1957), compared to now[0].

      In the 1980s the Malaysian Government started encouraging large numbers of Indonesians to come over and become "Malays". Tons promptly came over, got Malaysian citizenship, but continued behaving like Indonesians instead of Malays (the Malays themselves tell me those aren't Malays, I dunno what do you think?).

      That plus the dwindling birth rate of the Chinese (and Indians?) has led to the 65% Malay ratio.

      It's interesting that those Indonesians get to be considered "Sons/Princes of the Soil" (bumiputera) whereas the Chinese who have been around for generations (especially in Malacca and Penang) are in practice still considered squatters and "immigrants" by the political leaders (ironically some of them "Malays" whose grandparents were foreigners).

      It seems Indonesian terrorists can easily get Malaysian citizenship[1], whereas it's hard for decent professionals from other countries to do so. In other countries like Australia - you get extra "points" if you are a plumber or in some other desirable profession. In Malaysia it almost seems as if you get extra points if you've blown up a church or are a terrorist leader. If instead you've trained the Malaysian badminton team to win world championships, you can't even get a permanent residentship [2].

      I know someone who is legally a bumiputera in Sarawak, but in practice is not considered bumiputera in Peninsular Malaysia - when he applied for some privileges the bureaucrats said he had to convert to Islam first. He basically told them to shove it.

      As for Islam being firmly tied to Malay identity. Seriously look at Malay culture - look at the _Malay_ style clothes the Malay ladies were wearing before the wave of Islamization in the 70s and 80s, go ask your older relatives on Malay fashion in the 40s and 50s. Tapai is as alcoholic as beer and it's been part of Malay culture for a long time (centuries?), so much so that it's politically incorrect to make it haram (and thus change Malay weddings and kenduris a bit ;) ). Many Malays are now blindly switching to Arab culture and thinking that's Islamic culture.

      BTW I know a Malay Christian who was detained under the ISA in 1987[3] - AFAIK he didn't do anything dangerous to the country. He's a rather jovial and even-tempered guy. Not someone who would wave a keris around and say inflammatory things.

      Malaysians have lived together mostly in peace all these decades DESPITE the meddling of the politicians. The ruling government is the one stirring things up and doing the divide and conquer (yes the British did it, but the ruling government is doing it too).

      Recently the Malaysian Government has used the ISA to detain a reporter who correctly reported inflammatory remarks made by a politician in the ruling party, instead of the politician himself[4], and used the ISA to detain a politician in the opposition party instead of the reporters/editors allegedly misreporting her remarks[5].

      Did RPK (the infamous blogger) say anything that would cause large numbers of people be angry at large numbers of people? No just large numbers of people angry with their "leaders" (and in most cases justifiably so).

      The Gov also has spent their time trying to jail another blogger who tried to get people to post images of the Malaysian flag upside down on the web as a sign of distress, instead of dealing with real problems like corruption.

      The present leaders are the ones who have been making inflammatory remarks, and who have created a immigration system that gives terrorists citizenship (go figure how destabilizing that is).

      Back in the 1969 race riots it was also the politicians who started it.

      Now that the ruling party has lost its 2/3rd majority (and thus lost some power), I think it's time for the Malaysian voters to have their turn at divide and conquer - dividing and conquering the politicians.

      BTW the NEP while rather flawed has done some

      --
  3. Works for me by susano_otter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While I can't speak to the specifics of this particular government, or this particular implementation of the policy, I don't see any reason why sedition on a blog should be treated any differently from sedition on a streetcorner or a radio program or a billboard or a secret revolutionary committee meeting (for some definition of "sedition"; and obviously your mileage will vary based on local customs, values, and priorities).

    --

    Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.

    1. Re:Works for me by argent · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't see any reason why sedition on a blog should be treated any differently from sedition on a streetcorner or a radio program or a billboard or a secret revolutionary committee meeting

      I agree. If a society can't survive dissent it shouldn't survive. None of these should be suppressed.

    2. Re:Works for me by sexconker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Free speech is meaningless unless speech is completely, universally free.

      There should be absolutely zero restrictions on what can be said.

    3. Re:Works for me by susano_otter · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'll keep that in mind the next time I'm inciting your neighbors to riot, or urging them to lynch you, or advocating election fraud.

      --

      Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.

    4. Re:Works for me by Profane+MuthaFucka · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Bah, I've had this argument before. Telling people to riot should be perfectly legal. If they actually riot, the charges should be incitement to riot. If they don't riot, there should be no charges at all.

      Free Speech means you can say whatever you want. It doesn't mean that there is no accountability for what your speech causes. If the speech causes something illegal to happen, then the illegal activity is the problem, not the speech.

      --
      Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
    5. Re:Works for me by dangitman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Saying "hurrah free speech for everyone" only invites the nutjobs to spread their poison, and no-one will do anything because it'd be restricting their speech.

      And that would work a lot better. Do nothing - they speak, and make idiots of themselves, people ignore them.

      Suppress their speech, then they can play the victim card, become martyrs, validate conspiracy theories. Things go downhill quickly as the nutters join the squirrel parade.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
  4. Hmm.. Sedition by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 3, Informative

    Have the plebes learned? One doesnt mess with those authority types, especially when they revel in power?

    Happens here in the USA, happens in UK, happens in Germany, happens in Australia, and damn near everywhere else where there is power at a few people and the will to keep it.

    Malaysia is NO different in that regard. We just cover it up a bit better.

    --
    1. Re:Hmm.. Sedition by TorKlingberg · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As much as I hate the erosion of civil rights in the west, I don't see bloggers getting arrested for sedetion. Or are you saying they are secretly arrested and replaced by CIA men, so nobody notice they are gone?

    2. Re:Hmm.. Sedition by steelfood · · Score: 4, Insightful

      First they came for the communists...

      Talk to the many muslim leaders in the US whom have been arrested for preaching hatred towards western civilization.

      BTW, the bloggers are mentioned in the 5th stanza.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    3. Re:Hmm.. Sedition by n+dot+l · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Don't you watch the news? There is no sedition in Western nations. There are only consumers, harmless foil-clad lunatics, criminals, and a few terrorists.

      But yeah, cynical statements aside, there's less control here because the government simply doesn't fear us. Honestly, I could wear my fingers to the bone blogging about $700B bailouts, Iraq, Guantanamo, torture, the politicization of the DoJ, the Valerie Plame thing, etc, and nothing would happen to me because honestly my voice is worthless when it comes to these topics. People have seen it on the news so many times that the reaction is just, "Meh, shit happens." and nothing changes. Random words on the internet won't start riots, strikes, or boycotts, nor do they change anyone's vote in a meaningful way (how could they? elections are a popularity contest) - so why bother censoring?

    4. Re:Hmm.. Sedition by SpecBear · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Can you provide any examples of Muslim leaders who have been arrested in the US for preaching hatred?

    5. Re:Hmm.. Sedition by owlnation · · Score: 5, Insightful

      there's less control here because the government simply doesn't fear us.

      Mod parent insightful.

      Yes. That's the thing. Hiding in plain sight. The truth is in fact out there, plain as day. But no-one cares. The fact that the media is for the most part complicit or even controlling much of what happens in the West notwithstanding.

      This is the mistake of Malaysia and China and the old soviet states. Don't throw people in prison for speaking out, just make sure that reality tv and celebrities behaving badly is much bigger news. That way you can do anything you like. Anything at all.

      Bread and circuses. It's astonishing that it's taken modern Governments so long to figure this out, the Romans nailed it 2000 years ago.

  5. Re:trial shmial by LingNoi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yeah, but I'd rather be in gitmo then a Malaysian prison, or worse its neighbour, a Thai prison. In a Thai prison the guards will give you a chance to run for freedom and get shot rather then spend your sentence there eating cockroaches for nutrition (no I am not exaggerating).

  6. Re:trial shmial by TinFoilMan · · Score: 2, Funny

    Yeah, but have you seen those thai cockroaches, they'd feed a family of 8 for a week.

    If a Thai monkey doesn't move for 60 seconds, the cockroaches think it's fair game and they'll carry it off.

    --
    In my other life, I eat cats.
  7. I call bullshit. by nobodyman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Really? Happens all the time? Interesting. Then I suppose you can cite one instance in the USA, UK, Germany, or Australia where a citizen has been incarcerated for a minimum of two years without trial for a blog post that is critical of the government. Go ahead and include some links under my post. Take your time. I'll wait.

    Your post is offensive on multiple levels: It minimizes Kamarudin's plight ("well what else should you expect when you criticize the government?"), but it also makes the claim that *every* other nation has just as bad a civil rights record. I can tell that you've never spent much time in Malaysia.

    1. Re:I call bullshit. by owlnation · · Score: 2, Informative

      Then I suppose you can cite one instance in the USA, UK, Germany, or Australia where a citizen has been incarcerated for a minimum of two years without trial for a blog post that is critical of the government.

      Granted, not specifically two years (maybe, I haven't checked) and not for a blog post, however people in the early 70's in the UK were indeed incarcerated on a ship on a lake in Northern Ireland for long periods without trial. Read up on Internment, and then come back and call us all paranoid. The UK categorically does NOT have the right to freedom of speech. And in the UK you do NOT have the right to remain silent, since remaining silent can be construed as an admission of guilt in UK law.

    2. Re:I call bullshit. by nobodyman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Are you referring to the Prevention of Terrorism Acts? From what I can tell you could be held for up to seven days without being formally charged with a crime. It would be a *big* stretch to equate this with Malaysia's Internal Security Act, under which they can hold you *indefinitely* (though the Malaysian government claims that Kamarudin will be held for at least two years).

      I'm not making the claim that these other countries are perfect. I'm refuting the GP's claim that all countries are just as bad. To say such a thing is just lazy relativism that trivializes the situation that this blogger is in.

    3. Re:I call bullshit. by KGIII · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Never been arrested I take it? I got arrested on a faulty warrant and then lost in a bus around the country for someone who's name, prints, etc didn't even match my own. This is in the United States of America, CCA jails, and TransCorps. This happened while I was at work. I was an eight hour drive from home, if I'd known that there was some sort of problem I could have driven home to deal with it.

      It turns out that they used my name in part and had a SSN "near" mine. That was enough for a bench warrant.

      It took me 23 days to get "home" and then another 5 days sitting in a county jail to get to court and be released with apologies.

      I don't have much experience beyond that but I can say that 2 days == 30 days == 12 hours == 1 minute.

      Nothing, at all, equates to being held against your will and powerless for something you did not do.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  8. Re:A moment to admire your country by JoaoPinheiro · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Or maybe it's a taste of what it might become without such criticism.

    --
    João Pinheiro
  9. Re:that link is not safe for work in some places by DaleCooper82 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Oh nice, a link to Aljazeera. That will really look great in the server log.

    Shows the sad state of matters at your place/in your mind. Self censorship well done; did you report the submitter to authorities? That is probably what's left to make it complete 1984.

    Go ahead and mode me down, have karma to burn, I guess. But this got me started as AJE is as reliable news source as any other, with ex BBC, CNN, ABC, Fox etc. people working there.

    --
    :: There is no light at the end of a tunnel. There is a tunnel after a tunnel : Thom Y. ::
  10. Looked up Sedition on Wikipedia by Layth · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Some interesting notes.. particularly the USA's Smith Act, which made it a crime to advocate or teach the desirability of overthrowing the United States Government, or to be a member of any organization which does the same.

    I'm not a lawyer.. but doesn't the preamble of our own declaration of independence state "it is [the people's] right, it is their duty, to throw off ... Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security"

    Man, I don't think I could ever be a lawyer.
    I love my compiler too much - logic and consistency is actually enforced.

  11. uhh... no by circletimessquare · · Score: 4, Insightful

    there is actually a difference between your rights in the say, germany, and malaysia. germans are more free than americans in some freedoms of expression, but don't dare mention nazis, for example, in germany. but in germany and australia and the usa, overall, your rights and freedoms to express views which run contrary to those in power is respected. no really, it is. to conflate that with what goes on in malaysia, and egypt, and iran, and china, and other places, where you can, and will be put in brutal conditions, simply for expressing a political opinion. of course its not pure freedom of expression in the west, but there are orders of magnitude in difference

    to talk about your rights to expression malaysia in the same breath as roughly comparable to your rights to expression in germany, is to be woefully ignorant of the reality of the situation. this doesn't mean you aren't free to say lots of critical things in malaysia and get away with it. this doesn't mean you can't get abused by the authorities for simply expressing yourself in germany. but, overall, there are orders of magnitude of difference in the kinds of things you can safely say, and the punishment you face for saying unpopular things

    and to not realize that, and to not think the difference is important and large, is pure ignorance on your part

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  12. Re:that link is not safe for work in some places by meringuoid · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Oh nice, a link to Aljazeera. That will really look great in the server log.

    What's the problem with al-Jazeera? They're about the only independent Arabic-language station there is, consisting in large part of ex-BBC staff who went their own way after the World Service shut down their Arabic branch. Everyone else is under the thumb of some government or other. Are we not in favour of freedom of speech and information here? Plenty of Arab governments have tried from time to time to silence al-Jazeera, and so have the Americans, occasionally with GPS-guided explosives, yet they're still going - must be doing something right.

    --
    Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
  13. Malaysia..... by IMightB · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Malaysia isn't such a bad place as far as countries that I've visited go... My wife is Malay, and she wouldn't move back. Every time I visit there, I get the feeling that it is slowly being dragged into the 21st century. There are still many laws that give native Malay's/Muslims preferential treatment over other ethnic groups (Indians/Chinese). My understanding is that this is fairly limited to things like low-interest government loans.... I dunno... I enjoy visiting there, I don't think that I'd want to live there though.

  14. Re:trial shmial by Bryansix · · Score: 2, Informative

    He's lucky he survived having two 500 pound bombs dropped on the house he was in. He WAS involved with the militants who attacked and killed two Afghan fighters and then opened fire on the US troops outside.

    Also I don't think you understand what extradition means. You ask for extradition when you want to try someone in your own country. Canada doesn't want to put him on trial. They want to repatriate him whatever that means.

  15. I'm shocked! by afabbro · · Score: 2, Funny

    Free speech being restricted in a Muslim dictatorship? I'm shocked. Just completely shocked.

    --
    Advice: on VPS providers
  16. It gets even better by the_B0fh · · Score: 3, Informative

    Read his comment at his website: http://mt.m2day.org/2008/content/view/12913/84/

    Basically:

    "You've insulted Islam, a jailable offense, even though we cannot prove that in the articles that we've printed out. But your style of writing is too sophisticated, and dumb people who are not at the same intellectual level as you could misinterpret what you say, and mistakenly think what you wrote as an insult to Islam. Hence, we are going to send you to jail for insulting Islam."

  17. Re:trial shmial by KGIII · · Score: 2

    Canada... My how I do truly love Canada. I even go there often as it is quite literally a short drive from me.

    However... Canada has a smaller navy than many landlocked countries.

    Canada hasn't got the balls to stand up against America (which is where I live and I wish they would).

    --
    "So long and thanks for all the fish."