Air Force To Re-Open Pursuit of Cyber Command

GovTechGuy writes "Top Air Force leadership has decided to pursue forming a Cyber Command to defend Defense Department networks and to launch cyberattacks against foes, after putting the project on hold in August."

Comments

Where do I apply?

[bhsx]

It's too bad these positions will, most definitely, be filled by military personnel. This would be a fun job to have for sure.
It's also a shame that we wont be able to read about their missions. I would assume all of this work will be highly classified.

Re:Where do I apply?

[Ethanol-fueled]

"...after putting the project on hold in August."

Because we being indecisive really, really scares the hell out of our enemies.[/sarcasm]

I guess nothing is secret in cyberspace and this flip-flop is no exception.

Re:Where do I apply?

[Pichu0102]

Because we being indecisive really, really scares the hell out of our enemies.[/sarcasm]

Which is scarier, a guy who is usually calm and can get serious when it means getting serious, or a guy who is permanently in a state of indecisiveness about if or if not to kill you every time he sees you?

Re:Where do I apply?

[cayenne8]

"Knowing how computer-literate military personnel are, i'm pretty sure it wouldn't be that interesting"

Don't worry...the majority of these spots will likely be contractors. The govt. and DoD are largely OUT of the development and coding business...have been for years.

They don't build the systems...they just use them.

Re:Where do I apply?

[Dun Malg]

I hope the ethics hammered into the better class of military leaders (and I mean West Point, Annapolis, Air Force Academy graduates)

You think the ring-tappers* are the "better class of military leaders"? You've obviously never been in the military--- or are yourself a ring-tapper. They're the jackass political hacks that fill the halls of the pentagon with hare-brained ideas that fly in the face of reason**.

* so called for the annoying habit of many of them of spending too much time pointing out that they graduated from [W.Point|Annapolis|Colo Spgs], and not enough time demonstrating the leadership skills they (supposedly) learned there. Specifically refers to the practice of tapping the academy grad ring against stuff, as if by idle habit, in order to draw attention to it.

** Two classic examples: the Army Combat Uniform for the Army and the Airman Battle Uniform for the Air Force:

The Army spent millions working with the US Army Natick Labs and outside contractors like Crye Precision to develop a truly universal camouflage. One result of that was Crye MultiCam. Unfortunately, some asshat ring-tapper general decided to go with the current ACU pattern because the other patterns weren't "digital", like the Marines have.

In the case of the Airman Battle Uniform, the original pattern was to be tiger stripe with dark blue stripes! Some chair-bound rig tapper hack AF general and his yes-men at the Pentagon decided that the Air Force didn't really need effective camouflage, as airmen don't go into combat. During testing, it was pointed out to them by the airmen testing that yes, many of them do go into combat, so a useful camouflage might be better, thank you very fucking much. Fortunately, they listened to reason and modified it to a more sensible gray stripe. Sadly, they totally ignored requests to make its pockets/collar/etc similar to the much improved Army ACU, and subsequently those poor Air Force slobs are still walking around in the same crappy uniform we all wore in the 80's, only in a different color. Well, OK, the AF wore the outdated olive drab "pickle suit" the Army and USMC dumped in '82 until 1988, so I guess this is just par for the course.

Re:Where do I apply?

[Daniel Dvorkin]

I hope the ethics hammered into the better class of military leaders (and I mean West Point, Annapolis, Air Force Academy graduates) are a part of those leading the group. I don't mean the Gitmo crew, I mean the old school for whom a class in civics is not an elective. People for whom "honor" is not negotiable.

During my years of enlisted service in both the Army and the Air Force, I worked with a lot of academy grads and a lot of officers who got their commissions in other ways (ROTC, OCS/OTS, etc.) and I never saw any difference in quality based on where they came from. There were some very good ones, some bad ones, and as with any large group of people, the majority somewhere in the middle. It's true that the academies have very strong honor codes and try to instill those in their cadets. The downside is that the strong sense of esprit de corps the academies foster in order to get the cadets to take the honor code seriously also can make their graduates see themselves as the Chosen Few, superior to everyone else in the military (officers and enlisted) and they're often arrogant and closed-minded as a result. Also, remember that getting into the academies is essentially a political process -- the most common way is to get a nomination from a Senator or Representative -- so cadets tend to come from well-off, connected families, which can also add to this kind of arrogance.

Balance it all out -- the very good education, intensive training, and constant drumbeat of honor and discipline academy cadets receive, vs. the exposure to the wider world and range of experience those who obtain their commissions by other routes get during their formative years -- and it's pretty much a wash.

Re:Where do I apply?

[lysergic.acid]

isn't it funny that the cloak-and-dagger-types always think that they're saving the world, but all they're really doing is fighting the cloak-and-dagger-types from other countries (who also share the same messianic complex).

the whole "we need to spy on other countries because they're spying on us" mentality is very similar to the saying, people who steal always assume that everyone else steals. in the end this attitude simply creates a more hostile world, damaging international relations.

the constant arms escalation in the name of "national defense" hasn't made the world any safer. imagine how much we could have achieved if instead of participating in the global arms race, all the various nations had simply gotten together in the spirit of global cooperation to achieve some shared goal--like space exploration, medical research, etc. or even if we'd just spent those resources on things that would improve the quality of living of the average American.

Re:Where do I apply?

[Clanked]

Fortunatly not all of the people in the military are computer illiterate. We are few and far between for sure, but there is a lengthy application process to get anywhere near the jobs where you actually do something. A simple aptitude test already weeds out those that say "hey I wanna be a hacker like on TV" and those that really understand security. Once you are in the door, it is about two years of schooling (not by the military) to teach you what the hell to do. So yes, it will be quite interesting, but restricted to an extreme few. The MAJCOM is more to give the cyber people a voice "as strong as" the fighter guys, the cargo guys, and everyone else. This provides topcover and funding. The other thing this will enable, is Airman Snuffy who works at the comm squadron to add to his performance report "Coordinated with worldwide anti-cyberterrorism organization to ensure local network security. Resulting in 0 penetrations. Promote immediatly." Translation: "He applied a patch cleared by the MAJCOM."

im in

[Anonymous Coward]

and they can pay me in weed and hot pockets.

Why don't they just hire media defener

[nobodylocalhost]

All they want are DDOS kiddies right? They might as well do something useful with that company, such as defending the nation instead of letting it attack our citizens.

USAF Cyber Attack Procedures Manual [TOP SECRET]

[docstrange]

Excerpt from USAF Cyber Attack Procedures Manual [TOP SECRET]

1. Identify Target Website
2. Submit Story to Slashdot
3. Call Commander Taco on Red Phone
4. Slashdot Story on Terrorist Interwebs Published
5. Denial of Service Complete

Re:I Hope Cyber Command Comes Back

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a net admin/computer guy (3C0)... ...civilians are taking my traditional job of network administration away

If you mean you are 3C0x1 - ComOps - that is because most of you were complete idiots when I was in. And judging from the x2's that were coming in the door as I was leaving, I doubt your field has got much better.

Re:USAF Cyber Attack Procedures Manual [TOP SECRET

[halsver]

SPAM THE F5 KEY SOLDIER! The lives of you and your family depend on it!

Re:This is a mistake

[Chris Burke]

Yeah, I often get the common words "command" and "dyne" confused as well...

Don't bother applying, you'll just load missiles..

[Crazy Taco]

It's too bad these positions will, most definitely, be filled by military personnel.

That is a shame. However, it's not the saddest part of this story. The saddest part of this story is the boneheaded way the Air Force fills positions... it will probably make this a command not worth working in, and not as effective as it could be. The real problem is that the Air Force, and other branches of the military, tend to treat people as interchangeable, identical cogs, rather than individuals with aptitudes, skills, and backgrounds that vary widely.

Backstory: I actually did try to apply for this command. My background is this: I have two bachelor's degrees, one in computer science, and one in computer engineering, both with distinction. During college, I specialized in information security and showed a great deal of aptitude for it. I was offered jobs by both the NSA and CIA, and was OKed for the highest level of clearance.

So I hear about this thing with the Air Force, and I thought, "Man, that sounds interesting, and I know I can do it." So I talked to one of the recruiters online and told him I'd be happy to serve my country and be happy to join the Air Force, but I told him I had some unique abilities I could give them and asked him if I could enlist into that command.

And he told me no. He told me I would be placed according to the needs of the Air Force, basically wherever they felt like it. They would not take any look at my background at all. The likelihood that I would be just a laborer loading missiles (I use missile loading as an example) onto a jet was higher than me being put in the Cyber Command, despite my advanced background. And it was also just as likely that they would grab some random missile loader and stick him in the command, assuming they can "train him into it" just like they train someone to operate a radio.

So needless to say, I passed on that opportunity. If our country were being attacked and missile loaders were the thing we most needed, I would be happy to serve, so don't get me wrong. But given how things are today, I'm not going to join the Air Force and let them squander my skills. That's not good for either me or them, because they don't get all of my skilled potential, and I don't get to contribute everything I can. So they can go find some other grunt to load missiles, and someday, if they actually acknowledge that some people are better suited for a job than others, I'll be around. But if they insist on being blind to the differences between individuals and wasting much of the talent in their organization, then I won't ever serve with them (except perhaps in critical wartime).

Re:Hey!

[_Sprocket_]

Why is the parent post modded funny?

Sorry - that information is on a need-to-know basis.

Re:I Hope Cyber Command Comes Back

[Anonymous Coward]

bhsx (458600):

It's too bad these positions will, most definitely, be filled by military personnel. This would be a fun job to have for sure.

BigDork1001 (683341):

I just hope they don't give all the good slots to civilians.

Wow, you two are a match made in pessimist's heaven. You meet up some time and expect the worst together.

Re:Huhwha?

[Nefarious Wheel]

Why does the Navy have its own pilots, for instance? Why can't they train Air Force pilots to work with the Navy?

Air Force runways stay put, for one thing.

Re:Don't bother applying, you'll just load missile

[imamac]

With two baccalaureate degrees you need to be talking to an officer recruiter--not enlisted.

Re:Don't bother applying, you'll just load missile

[lysergic.acid]

that seems to be the whole purpose of the chain of command. aside from eliminating personal accountability, it also suppresses original thought. this gives the officials up top absolute control over the military hierarchy. whatever they want done will be carried out unquestioningly and without hesitation. this sounds like a good idea at first, but it ignores the fact that this kind of blind obedience is, not only be dangerous, but also eliminates the benefits of having human beings in the military rather than simply robots/machines.

this type of management style works fine if you're running certain organizations, such as fast food restaurants or factory assembly lines, but if more complex work is involved, such as software development or medical research, it really hampers the healthy operation of the business/organization.

back in the days when wars were fought by having two opposing armies line up facing each other on the field, taking turns launching volleys of musket fire at one another, the chain of command works quite well--because soldiers were just pieces on a chess board for the commander to move around at will. but once guerrilla tactics were invented such top-down command structures were easily outmaneuvered by bottom-up or laterally organized guerrilla forces.

having a bunch of interchangeable cogs in the military rather than individuals who can think for themselves and adapt to the situation is reflective of a rather outdated way of thinking.

Re:let's just get this out of the way

[grantek]

Well, what IS interesting, is that if the US defense force is using software as weapons, does that mean your constitutionally-explicit right to bear arms includes things like nmap and wireshark? Thus far, the "think of the children" crowd have been quick to label anyone "caught" with these "hacking tools" as evil terrorists, but in an age where a DOS attack on an infrastructure system could be a strategic prelude to sending in guys with guns (in an international war or a hypothetical civil conflict), I'd certainly see them as "arms".

Re:Huhwha?

[Dun Malg]

There's something I don't get about the U.S. Military. Why is there so much overlapping of functions?

Why does the Navy have its own pilots, for instance? Why can't they train Air Force pilots to work with the Navy?

Similarly, why is there going to be an Air Force Cyber Command when the Army is already working on something similar? It all seems like a huge waste of money.

Hah! I see where you're getting confused. You're assuming the military is run by rational folks with a mind for efficiency and effectiveness, when really it's run by shitheel politicians. They may wear uniforms covered in stars and gold braid, but they're as parochial and scheming as any Louisiana legislator in a polyester suit. A little history (some cut and pasted from my post the last time this came up):

The Air Force was formed in 1948 on the premise that the US Army shouldn't be in the business of strategic bombing and air superiority. Unfortunately, the agreement that split the AF off from the Army also forbade the Army to operate aircraft. As a result the Army still has trouble getting the AF to provide adequate close air support. Under consideration at the same time was a proposal to attach the Marine Corps to the Army (where it more logically belongs) and transfer naval aviation assets to Air Force control; but Navy Secretary Forrestal had spent WW2 building up the Navy into his own little self-sufficient kingdom with its own air and ground assets. It's a completely asinine duplication of effort, but he had enough pull to kill the consolidation proposal. As a result of this sort of bureaucratic feudalism, we have:

4 1/2 air forces
Air Force, Naval aviation, USMC aviation, Coast Guard aviation, and Army helicopter aviation

1 1/2 armies
the real Army, and the Navy's light infantry, the USMC

2 1/2 navies
the Navy, the Coast Guard, and all the small watercraft operated by the AF and Army to fill the gaps the Navy won't cover.

So you see, while on the surface splitting up the services seems like it should promote efficiency by allowing each service to specialize, what you end up with is services narrowing their focus to the stuff that's completely "theirs", while neglecting the "overlap" areas where other services need their support. As it turns out, the Army is inevitably the biggest loser in all of this. They are the backbone of any sizable conflict, but can't get decent close air support or timely theater airlift support from the Air Force, and are forbidden by law to provide it for themselves. Likewise they can't get theater level waterborne transport from the Navy. Meanwhile, naval aviators whine about the Air Force getting to drop all the bombs in Iraq, when the justification for having them flying over Iraq is already weak at best. Then there's the USMC lobbying to be given sole operational responsibility over Afghanistan because they want to get out of Iraq, as their tactics there have only resulted in a greater casualty rate, rather than "upstaging" the Army as is their normal goal.

It all goes back to the political hacks that fill the Pentagon. They're always looking for some way to expand their power base so they can justify a bigger bite of the defense "pie". This silly Air Force "Cyber Command" is just more of the same. The Air Force hasn't a single justification in its charter for claiming "cyberspace" as their own, but they hope to get it by virtue of being the only service with applicable combat assets in-theater when the time comes to decide whose responsibility it is. Frankly, I think the military is ill suited to the job. I reckon the NSA is the better tool for the job. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point the Air Force was told "your Cyber Command is a needless duplication of assets already fielded by the NSA--- kill it"...

Re:Don't bother applying, you'll just load missile

[Dun Malg]

With two baccalaureate degrees you need to be talking to an officer recruiter--not enlisted.

Doesn't really work like that. You're probably thinking of ROTC. ROTC gets you a degree in (something), with a minor in Military Management. The only folks who get officer commissions based on their education are doctors and dentists. Just having a degree in (something) will only get you in as an enlisted man at pay grade E-3 instead of the usual E-1.

Re:Don't bother applying, you'll just load missile

[Dun Malg]

The saddest part of this story is the boneheaded way the Air Force fills positions... ... the Air Force, and other branches of the military, tend to treat people as interchangeable, identical cogs, rather than individuals with aptitudes, skills, and backgrounds that vary widely. ...I talked to one of the recruiters ...[he] told me I would be placed according to the needs of the Air Force, basically wherever they felt like it. They would not take any look at my background at all.

The funny thing is, I've only heard about the Air Force and the USMC doing that. The Navy gives you some degree of choice, I think, but won't let you pick EXACTLY what you want. The Army, however, will pretty much let you choose whatever job that's available so long as you meet the test requirements. I wanted to be an intelligence analyst, and that's precisely what they gave me. It was in my enlistment contract. Granted, I ended up hopping from my cold-war-centric signal intelligence analyst MOS (98C) to Human Intelligence Collection/Verbal Waterboarder (97E) when I re-upped in 2001, and subsequently ended up drag-assing around Afghanistan with a gaggle of nutcase infantrymen, Rangers, and SpecFor guys, but every step of the way was voluntary.

Re:Don't bother applying, you'll just load missile

[jesuscash]

If you already have a degree you go to Officer Training School to get a comission.

Re:Don't bother applying, you'll just load missile

[aquatone282]

Actually it does work like that. Since you already have a degree, you just go to OTS and become an officer.

No, you APPLY to OTS and IF you're selected and IF you complete the school, you become an officer.