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TiVo Wins Appeal On Patents For Pause, Ffwd, Rwd

Posted by kdawson on from the satellites-descending dept.

Lorien_the_first_one writes "After years of wrangling, TiVo has won its day in court against Dish Network, formerly known as the EchoStar, when the Supreme Court declined to take up Dish Network's appeal, forcing the satellite television company to pay $104 million in damages. According to the article, 'TiVo originally won a patent infringement case in 2004 against Dish, which was then named EchoStar Communications. It charged that Dish illegally copied its technology, which allows people to pause, rewind, and record live television on digital video recorders.' Despite an injunction, Dish continued distributing its set-top boxes in the belief that the work-around they had implemented avoided infringing TiVo's patents. Now the case goes back to the lower court for review to determine if they did indeed steer clear of those patents."

16 of 215 comments (clear)

  1. Go TiVo by m0s3m8n · · Score: 3, Informative

    As someone who still owns two Tivo's (not being used presently), this is a good day for them. At least they will get a bit of cash. Unfortunately my move to DirecTV, and TiVo's change of focus to Cable and OTA only, I have been forced to use the DirecTV DVRs. While adequate, other DVRs are in NO WAY as feature complete.

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    1. Re:Go TiVo by zeoslap · · Score: 3, Informative

      Tivo invented the DVR, period, and Dish infringing on their patents almost put them under. This is the whole reason we have patents, to let the guy that came up with the idea profit from it without being put under by big pocketed copycats. I'm really glad TiVo won this case.

    2. Re:Go TiVo by zeoslap · · Score: 2, Informative

      They didn't patent rewind/fast forward, and if you think that's what this is about perhaps you should actually read the patent.

    3. Re:Go TiVo by jank1887 · · Score: 2, Informative

      no, it was a circuit implementation to enable realtime record/replay. read the claims before you make invalid ones.

    4. Re:Go TiVo by electrictroy · · Score: 4, Informative

      "In 1985, while working at Honeywell's Physical Sciences Center, David Rafner first described a drive-based DVR designed for home TV recording, time-slipping, and skipping commercials. U.S. Patent 4,972,396 focused on a multi-channel design to allow simultaneous independent recording and playback." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_video_recorder

      Looks like Tivo was just copying somebody else's idea.
      - They can not claim it to be their own.

      Also of note: ReplayTV was released the same year as Tivo, and it too can pause or rewind live television via "independent record and playback". Once again, Tivo can not claim first implementation.

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    5. Re:Go TiVo by Dun+Malg · · Score: 2, Informative

      nfortunately my move to DirecTV, and TiVo's change of focus to Cable and OTA only, I have been forced to use the DirecTV DVRs.

      That's DirecTV's doing, not Tivo's. Rupert Murdoch shut them out because he thought they could do better in house. Now that Murdoch's gone, they can admit defeat, and are actually working with Tivo to make an DTV HD Tivo, to be released next year.

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    6. Re:Go TiVo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Are these the same lawyers that gave several million dollars to a McDonalds' customer who rather stupidly put a hot cup of coffee between his legs (while driving)??? ;-)

      obligatory debunk

  2. USPTO Patent 6,233,389 by alexhs · · Score: 5, Informative

    It's about the TiVo Multimedia time warping system patent.

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  3. Hang in there! by BLKMGK · · Score: 3, Informative

    Direct and TIVO have inked another deal and there will be new HD hardware for Direct from TIVO coming in a year or so. FWIW - I left DISH for Direct to get TIVO and left Direct to FIOS to keep TIVO. Now I'm stuck on COX but I've got my TIVO!

    Anyway, hang in there - relief from that POS "DVR" they provided you is coming!

    http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/03/hell-freezes-over-new-directv-hd-tivo-on-the-way/

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  4. Re:Fucking patent trolls by jank1887 · · Score: 1, Informative

    they were specific circuit implementations. i.e., hardware patents. It wasn't just patenting 'a vague method of recording and replaying live video' so yes, they're okay.

  5. It was novel at the time. by wiredog · · Score: 1, Informative

    Being able to pause a live video stream on the home TV? Then fast forward to catch up to the live stream? No one else was doing that in the late 90's.

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    1. Re:It was novel at the time. by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 3, Informative

      As I understand it, if Tivo used a different technique of doing on TV than was used in other media, it's patentable. If Dish used a different technique of doing it on TV than Tivo did, Dish should be okay. But if Dish just copied Tivo's patented technique, then Tivo was right to stomp them.

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    2. Re:It was novel at the time. by Klaruz · · Score: 3, Informative

      What's the technique difference?

      Realplayer (before tivo): video bits get sucked off the internet (which may be digitized in real time on the other end) and stuck into a ring buffer, pointer streams data off buffer, decodes and displays it. You can move the pointer around the buffer.

      Tivo: video bits get sucked off a video digitizer and stuck into a ring buffer, pointer streams data off buffer, decodes and displays it. You can move the pointer around the buffer.

      Dish (after tivo): video bits get sucked off a video digitizer and stuck into a ring buffer, pointer streams data off buffer, decodes and displays it. You can move the pointer around the buffer.

      Maybe I'm dumb, but I fail to see how using a ring buffer to store video is worthy of a patent.

  6. Re:Prior art? by onecheapgeek · · Score: 2, Informative

    In 96, almost 3 years before the first tivo, I could have shown you a Mac that could do it.

  7. Re:Fucking patent trolls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Your opinion has nothing to do with the legal details of this topic, which you apparently haven't bothered to review in the slightest.

    "I think patents are bad and this probably, might not be novel or new" is nonsensical and clearly shows you've not bothered to pay any attention to the actual article. I realize that not bother to RTFA is typical here, but honestly?

  8. wikipedia entry is wrong! by mveloso · · Score: 4, Informative

    Actually, the wikipedia entry is wrong. They Honeywell patent is:

    Title: Multiple independently positionable recording-reading head disk system

    Abstract
    ------
    A multiple independently positionable recording-reading head optical disk system. The system includes at least one optical disk having an arrangement of data elements. A plurality of recording-reading heads read and write data onto the optical disk. An apparatus for transporting the plurality of recording-reading heads over one side of the optical disk enabling each of the recording-reading heads to read data from or write data onto the optical disk independently of the other recording-reading heads.

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    This is not a TiVo. This is how to record onto optical media with multiple independent read/write heads.

    This demonstrates why you should actually verify information in WikiPedia instead of quoting it blindly.