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Fuel Efficiency and Slow Driving?

vile8 writes "With the high gas prices and ongoing gas gouging in my hometown many people are trying to find a reasonable way to save gas. One of the things I've noticed is people driving exceptionally slow, 30mph in 45mph zones, etc. So I had to take a quick look and find out if driving slow is helpful in getting better mileage. I know horsepower increases substantially with wind resistance, but with charts like this one from truckandbarter.com it appears mileage is actually about the same between 27mph and 58mph or so. So I'm curious what all the drivers out there with the cool efficiency computers are getting ... of specific interest would be the hemis with MDS; how do those do with the cylinder shutoff mode at different speeds?" Related: are there any practical hypermiling techniques that you've found for people not ready to purchase a new car, nor give up driving generally?

29 of 1,114 comments (clear)

  1. Fuel economy by JWSmythe · · Score: 5, Informative

    I spent some time researching this matter after a discussion at work started about it.

    Something that I had observed in my car was that my fuel economy increased as my speed increased.

    At a cruising speed of 85mph, I get 26mpg. at 80mph, I got 24mpg. And at 65, i got about 20mpg. This testing was done along I-10 between Jacksonville and Los Angeles. There's lots of room to set the cruise control. A test usually consisted of fueling up, then a hard acceleration to the testing speed and setting the cruise control to handle maintaining the speed for the next 300 to 350 miles. Individual tests were spot checked (repeated somewhere else on the drive).

    In researching this, it wasn't a matter that my car is "faster", stronger, or just plain cooler. It's a function of the drag of the vehicle and the RPMs the engine is turning.

    Most cars make their best fuel economy somewhere between 1800 to 2200 rpm. Ah ha! My car has a 6 speed stick. If I'm in 6th gear it's turning about 2000rpm at 85mph.

    I then compared ground speed to engine speed ratios of other cars, partly selected because they were owned by people in the discussion, or because they were fairly common cars. Depending on the vehicle, it's best cruise speed could be anywhere between 45mph to 90mph.
     

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    1. Re:Fuel economy by JWSmythe · · Score: 5, Insightful

          I've gotten lazy with this. When I know a stop is coming up, I put the car in neutral and let it coast. After a while, my clutch leg starts to hurt, so it's easier this way. People may think I'm weird, but I do it up to a mile away. The car coasts really well, so I'm usually not going any slower than I should be anyways. :)

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    2. Re:Fuel economy by Goldberg's+Pants · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I would always just leave the clutch in rather than put it in neutral in case you have to get out of trouble.

      I remember once, on the M27 in England, a friend and I were driving to Portsmouth. We'd be put just over a pounds worth of petrol in. Gauge didn't even register empty. It was below that. There's a long downhill bit heading down into the city. He put the clutch in and we coasted several miles at least. (This was in a really old Saab.) Little disconcerting, especially when venturing onto a Motorway in the knowledge that your car may break down is an offense.

    3. Re:Fuel economy by JohnnyBGod · · Score: 5, Informative

      Engine braking is a fine way to brake, nowadays. Modern engines don't burn any fuel while engine braking, and the braking is usually slow enough for the unlit brake lights not to be a problem.

      Plus, it's essential while going downhill, otherwise your brakes will be useless. Unless what you want to accelerate, of course. Then, by all means, let gravity help you.

    4. Re:Fuel economy by MentlFlos · · Score: 5, Informative

      The key is to drive a manual transmission and to hold in the clutch whenever you can(especially downhill) so that the car coasts(runs at idle) as much as possible.

      Wrong.

      If you are at 0% throttle and over a certain RPM most ECUs will turn the injectors off (0 fuel usage). I am sure you will agree that (fuel used to idle the the motor) > (no fuel used).

      Should I even bite on your username or just let that one slide?

    5. Re:Fuel economy by cailith1970 · · Score: 5, Informative

      As an ex-mechanic, I wouldn't recommend coasting all the time with your clutch in, you're not doing it any favours. Stick the thing in neutral, it's far better for the longevity of your clutch, not to mention your spigot bearing.

      --
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    6. Re:Fuel economy by Sique · · Score: 5, Informative

      You obviously don't live in the mountains. Here not using the engine for braking is a sure recipe to roast your brakes and have a pedal response like pudding after 10 mls, and yes, we here have slopes of 20 or 30 mls. Coming down from Timmelsjoch to Haiming we start out at ~7500 ft and after nearly 6000 ft we reach Haiming at an altitude of 1800 ft. If you ever plan to do that with only the brakes please send me a message upfront, so I can avoid driving there that day.

      I am using my engine for braking all the time, it has now 80,000 mls, no sign of wear and tear, and I have replaced the brake discs once.

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    7. Re:Fuel economy by mustafap · · Score: 5, Funny

      >not to mention your spigot bearing.

      Is that something a doctor would sort out, or a mechanic?

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    8. Re:Fuel economy by cailith1970 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Definitely a mechanic ;) The spigot bearing is the little bearing in the back of the crankshaft that the input shaft of the gearbox fits into to hold it at both ends. When the clutch is not engaged, the crankshaft and input shaft spin together, so the spigot bearing doesn't spin (well, it spins at the same speed as the crankshaft, if you get what I mean). These little bearings aren't really designed for serious long term spinning, so constantly riding the clutch is going to wear it out pretty quickly.

      --
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    9. Re:Fuel economy by Big+Smirk · · Score: 5, Informative
      In the US they are more commonly called "pilot bearings":

      However, the throwout bearing that puts (or rather relieves) 2000 lbs of pressure is more likely to be the issue

      But I agree with your main argument, Stick it in neutral and let the clutch out.

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    10. Re:Fuel economy by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 5, Funny

      Actually, most cars nowadays with manual transmissions will actually no longer consume fuel.

      Wow! That's wierd. There must be something wrong with my 5-speed Ranger then, because it's constantly consuming fuel. About 24 MPG worth in combined city+hightway.

    11. Re:Fuel economy by BLAG-blast · · Score: 5, Funny

      And when the pilot bearings wears out, it causes vibration on the input shaft to the transmission, which causes the input shaft seal to fail, which let's the oil drip out, which gets on the clutch plate, which causes the clutch plate to slip, which creates heat, which causes the fly wheel to crack, which chews up the clutch plate, which causes the clutch plate to grip, and every thing seems work fine again, for a little while anyway, this is when to sell your car and get a new one.

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    12. Re:Fuel economy by yali · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Three reasons this is a bad idea. One, if you suddenly have to swerve to avoid something, you might miss the edge that the power steering would provide Two, you might need to suddenly apply engine power in some emergency situations, like if you hit black ice and start skidding. Three, if you accidentally turn the key too far back, you'll engage the steering wheel lock and won't be able to steer at all.

      In short: really bad idea.

    13. Re:Fuel economy by the_bard17 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Coasting may be illegal in most US states, but so is travelling five miles an hour over the speed limit. Fortunately, most cops aren't about to pull me over for either (though I do stick to the limit in school zones, for obvious reasons), so I'm not liable to not coast simply because it's illegal.

      My reason for not coasting? From what I understand, when the engine's turning above ~1,000 RPM, the throttle's at "idle" (no pressure on the pedal), and the transmission's in gear, then the fuel injectors shut off. For everyone but the parent poster, that means it's not burning gas, and thus raising the mileage. Whenever I might use the coasting technique, it's probably better to simply leave it in gear, let the injectors shut off, save gas, and save my brakes (without worrying about overheating them, too).

      Take note that I've got a manual transmission in a '97 Subaru Outback. My verification that the injectors shut off is simply "seat of the pants"... there's a bit of a surge when they kick back in at low RPM's.

    14. Re:Fuel economy by X0563511 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Four, if you need to stop suddenly, I hope you have strong legs. Those brakes don't work very well when your system isn't pressurized anymore.

      Five, your cooling system may no longer be working, and if you are riding the edge of an overheat (considering you're driving far enough to consider killing the engine on coast) this may push you over the edge.

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    15. Re:Fuel economy by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Really? How many more miles does he expect to get on that engine before the repeated stress of starting it burns out the starter motor, at a minimum? Seriously, when the engine isn't running, the oil pump isn't running. When the oil pump isn't running, the oil runs down into the drain pan (especially when it's already hot). When you start a car, the cylinders are underlubricated until the oil pump gets things moving again. How many gallons of gas to you have to save to pay for a new engine, both in economic and ecological terms?

      Also, keep the jerk in mind the next time you have a smoggy day. What did you think happened to all that unburned gas in the exhaust? Catalytic converters aren't magic, you know.

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    16. Re:Fuel economy by crossmr · · Score: 5, Funny

      isn't this discussion getting a tad too manly for slashdot?

  2. My plan for improving the world's fuel consumption by Joce640k · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Make those fuel consumption displays mandatory.

    Most cars these days know their consumption - it's one of the first things they look at when they connect the laptop to the engine when you go for a service.

    Make the display mandatory, make it large, and put it in a prominent place. It'll do wonders for everybody's fuel consumption.

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  3. BMW on fuel efficient driving by base2_celtic · · Score: 5, Informative

    An American Road & Track issue from many years ago (and I'm damned if I can recall which one) had a long article on the results of some fuel economy studies conducted by BMW.

    The findings seemed to show that driving style was more important than overall speed.

    The tips, in general, were:

    - Keep your speed constant; fluctuations up and down are bad.
    - Accelerate to your target speed quickly. Spending time slowly accelerating up to it wastes fuel.
    - Be in the highest gear feasible for your engine type and road speed.
    - 75% throttle for acceleration, conditions permitting.
    - Keep your revs low, and change gears often to keep them low. That said, know your torque curve, and use it; if you have a small 4 cylinder, trying to accelerate at 1000 revs is futile.

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  4. Take advantage of aerodynamics by kbrasee · · Score: 5, Funny

    Do like everyone else does, drive about 6 inches behind me at 65 mph.

    1. Re:Take advantage of aerodynamics by tinrobot · · Score: 5, Informative

      You actually don't suck efficiency from the car in front of you. That car actually gets a slight boost in efficiency because a second car following close reduces drag-inducing turbulence off the back of the lead car.

  5. It's about acceleration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I have a realtime mileage display and variable cylinder technology in my car, and what I have noticed is that I can easily cruise at 75mph on 3 cylinders and get tremendous mileage in the process. However, when I hit an uphill grade, if I try to maintain 75 the other cylinders kick in and my mileage drops dramatically (to roughly 2/3). But, I have noticed that if I gradually back off on the accelerator while climbing the grade, bleeding down my speed to keep those other 3 cylinders from turning on, I can climb the hill while maintaining my high mileage. I've learned also to accelerate slowly on level and mild up grades (like near the top of the grade) without the other cylinders engaging. Obviously when going downhill I take full advantage and build my speed back up while still getting great mileage. Perhaps something like this is what you are observing? BTW, I don't play these games in heavy or rush hour traffic; I only use these techniques when traffic is light.

  6. Other helpful practices: smart braking by Cordath · · Score: 5, Informative

    There are lots of little things you can do to save on gas. Many center around efficient stopping.

    For example, if I see a red light coming up, I'll often ease off the gas and coast in rather than maintaining speed and then braking near the light like most people do. In addition to saving gas on the way to the light, if the light turns green before you stop then you've also saved the gas it would have taken to accelerate back up to speed.

    This tactic can be quite entertaining if, for example, an impatient bozo in a SUV comes up behind you while you're coasting, honks, pulls around you and speeds ahead only to stop at the light, and then you smoke him as you coast through the light just as it turns green.

  7. Re:My plan for improving the world's fuel consumpt by Rogerborg · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Oh, for mod points. Most people (well, most men anyway) are competitive, and we like to beat our "high scores". Tachometers show us speed, clocks show us time, but neither of those contributes to efficiency. Adding a fuel economy display gives a better goal to beat.

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  8. jack rabbit starts by Ydna · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'd say the way people blast off from the green light like their in a Formula 1 Grand Prix* is probably doing a bigger number on fuel economy in city driving more than anything else.

    * or not if you were Hamilton yesterday.

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  9. The leanset way to drive... by i · · Score: 5, Funny

    ..is accelerating relatively fast to something like 70mph,
    then pull of the engine and roll with no gear until You reach
    something like 10mph when You start the engine and repeat.

    This is the empirically show best method.

    But it will probably irritate other drivers...

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  10. Re:more time stuck in traffic by hazem · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You have the wrong feeling. Driving the speed limit is a good idea. Driving far below the speed limit (as the submitter specified people going 30 MPH in a 45 MPH zone) is risky and detrimental to good traffic flow and traffic safety as a whole.

    The driver going far below the speed limit is likely to incite someone who is less patient to recklessly try to pass them, and that slow driver is responsible for helping to create that situation. To say otherwise is to tell someone poking a bee hive with a stick is not responsible for the stings they receive - that it's only the bees that should be blamed.

    In my eyes, anyone who intentionally drives in ways that are counter to how a traffic system has been designed and implemented is putting the rest of us at risk... that means excessive speeding as well as excessive slow driving.

    I've studied traffic a lot over the years and what I do know is that it only takes a few drivers driving in selfish ways to really screw things for everyone else. The guy racing ahead on the right to merge at the last minute tends to be the same guy bitching when someone else cuts them off.

    And to say "I'm getting better gas mileage, everyone and everything else be damned" is just more of the kind of thinking that leads to all of us getting screwed.

  11. Re:The Jesus Bearing by Migraineman · · Score: 5, Funny

    The throwout bearing is also known as the Jesus bearing to those who wrench on cars. Usually after rebuilding the engine, installing it in the car, and topping up the fluids, you'll notice the Jesus bearing sitting on top of the toolbox.

  12. You sure about that? by rantingkitten · · Score: 5, Informative
    This study commissioned by the US DOT says otherwise, as do thousands of engineers across the country. I personally find this an interesting if dry read, because it's pretty damning evidence that speed limits are set artificially low for revenue generation purposes, since it can be demonstrated that posted limits have a negligable effect on how fast people actually go. Anyway, some things of note:
    • Accidents at the 58 experimental sites where speed limits were lowered increased by 5.4 percent.
    • Accidents at the 41 experimental sites where speed limits were raised decreased by 6.7 percent.

    The logic is that the majority of people are going to drive at a certain speed on any given road regardless (the "85th percentile" rule) and the one doofus going significantly slower than this becomes a very unexpected, slow-moving obstacle which requires people to either hit the anchors suddenly, or attempt to swerve around, both of which are clearly unsafe behaviors.

    While most cops won't care about this excuse because they want to maintain a ticket quota, many judges will, assuming no other violation and a good attitude, accept the "I was just keeping up with traffic" line as grounds for dismissal or reduction of a citation. There's a reason for this.

    I grant you that this study, and some others like it, mention only accidents and do not discuss or even mention fatalities, but the reduction of total accidents when everyone drives at the 85th percentile is a pretty clear fact. If everyone drove slower this probably wouldn't be the case, but since we aren't going to change the rset of humanity's driving patterns, telling people to drive slower than they should is dubious advice.

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