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Report Indicates Widespread H-1B Visa Fraud
Vrst1013 notes a Business Week account of a government report examining fraud in the H-1B program. The US Citizenship and Immigration Services just released a report to members of the Senate Judiciary Committee examining issues with fraud and technical violations within this program. Based on a sample size of 246 H-1B petitions, 13.4 percent showed fraud and 7.3 percent showed technical violations, for an overall violation rate of 20.7 percent. There was slso evidence of payment below the prevailing wage, offers of non-existent jobs, and fraudulent documentation. "'The report makes it clear that the H-1B program is rife with abuse and misuse,' says Ron Hira, [a professor] at the Rochester Institute of Technology ... However, both Presidential candidates, Senator Barack Obama and Senator John McCain, have said they support expanding the program."
I'm continually amazed at the H1B visa issue.
Took me 5 min's to come up with a reasonable solution to the issues.
Original Problem: Some companies need skilled employee's that are not available in the US.
Created problems: Many companies like hiring folks from elsewhere because even with associated costs of the visa and transportation it's still a huge cost savings over paying US wages for the same work.
Solution: Have a relatively unlimited pool of available H1B visa's. With the provision that anyone hired must be paid 110% of the prevailing US wage for the work.
That way if they really need skills not available they can get them but there is a real financial incentive to use local talent.
Ward
Ward
. Silence! Be thankful thy species is unpalatable! .
I'm shocked, just shocked. In fact, I'm so shocked that a team of immigrants will be needed to pick my lower jaw up from the floor(no americans are available, I checked, really.).
Seriously though. I'm not opposed to immigration in itself, after all, one of the things that America has consistently gained from is being able to attract skilled and/or motivated people from all over(and, I can't ethically get behind the "America is the land of opportunity for anybody who immigrated before date X, after date X, all immigrants are damn dirty foreigners" type arguments). What I am opposed to is horrid compromise structures that don't work all that well, and provide huge incentives for fraud. If we want immigration, let's reform the process by which people can apply for and obtain legal residency and, ideally, eventually citizenship. If we don't, then let's be straightforward about forbidding it. A bullshit half measure where corporations get to import quasi-indentured labor who are on a sorta-kinda-not-really track to naturalization is the worst of both worlds. All the stuff about immigration that makes nativist labor types nervous, without the benefits of attracting and naturalizing the best, brightest, and most motivated.
Frankly I'm surprised ONLY 7.3% have technical violations. It is an extremely long, complex, and needless process that makes it easy to make mistakes at every step.
There have been books dedicated JUST to the process of US visa application forms, it really is that bad and can take up to or over six months.
I'm sure a lot of fraud goes on... But technical violations is more than likely just people struggling with the system.
So, you were going for a meta-dupe, by posting two messages about this article being a dupe? Dupe-squared? Or is it a super-dupe? A dupeé?
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
So many articles are coming out about the newly discovered h1b abuses, that you might think that, because everybody finally knows about the abuses, the problems will be fixed.
Sorry folks, but the abuses have been well know for nearly a decade.
September 2000
Silicon Valley Uses Immigrant Engineers to Keep Salaries
http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/10-silicon-valley-uses-immigrant-engineers-to-keep-salaries/
2002
Enron and the H-1B American Worker Replacement Program
http://www.americanreformation.org/Articles/GlennJackson/EnronandH1BVisas.htm
February 2003
Is Anybody Out There? Is Anyone Listening?
http://www.rense.com/general35/wakeupNHwakeup.htm
Comment removed based on user account deletion
It's not just the corporations who abuse H-1B visas. Virtually all, save a few, of the people brought over on them are useless.
I was at one company who employed fifteen of these people at one point. All of them were very misleading when describing their abilities and experience, and thus were virtually useless to us. If anything, they actually caused us more problems that they ever solved by the mere fact that the code they wrote was pure shit.
They were all from different universities and other academic institutions in India, so it's not like they were from a particularly bad school. Likewise, they were of different ages.
Our main problem was that many of them claimed to be familiar with Java development on Solaris, but the closest experience they actually had was VB.NET on Windows. Some of those fellows even had a cheat sheet translating common VB.NET constructs to Java (albeit incorrectly, in many cases). The others just pestered our North American and European developers with questions and problems that even an intern would be able to quickly solve on their own.
It's a great idea to bring the best and the brightest to America. It'll be great for our economy. The problem is, the existing programs bring over complete shit, who in turn harm our productivity terribly.
You mean to tell me that a government program meant to keep wages artificially inflated is being abused? I'm shocked! Corruption in government? Impossible!
Next you'll try to tell me that big companies influence government officials to get favorable copyright legislation.
Maybe not
People say there aren't enough skilled workers, but from what I can, there are too many people in the IT field. We posted for an opening and we had 40+ candidates in under a couple of hours. Many had little to no skills, but who's to say that I would get a better candidate from another country? Besides, if u keep hiring candidates from outside, then how will the non-experienced people that are in the US get the experience they need? We can't support the whole world by saying, come on down. I will get you a job because I don't want to pay the American worker so much money. Well, guess what, you can pay me 15K/yr, or 100K/yr. I still have to pay the same price for everday items that I NEED, forget what I WANT. So, how do I live on the poverty scale, when I went to school in hopes of making more money in the first place?
This video illustrates the problem perfectly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU
Your comment is a decent guess based only on the summary, but if you actually read the article, you'll find a PDF link to the government report. The report specifically says that all cases of overlap are included in the fraud count, and not the technical violation count, and also gives the exact numbers. So yes, the total is correct. (The summary set off my "I don't think so"-dar the same way, but I went to check the article before I commented.)
both Presidential candidates
You mean Barr and Baldwin? To me, the rest don't matter anyway.
Anyone else having the issue where the H1B candidates that are interviewed (over the phone, natch) are not the same people that show up on the first day at work?
That's the new scam. The staffing companies specializing in the H1B candidates are using shills for the interviews.
What reasonable justification does the US government have for denying foreigners the same opportunities that American citizens have?
Other countries also deny or restrict foreigners working within their borders. Why should the U.S. be any different? Even to work in Mexico, a U.S. worker has to obtain a work visa, even if only to work in the Mexican office of a U.S. owned company that happens to be a few hundred yards over the border for one day.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Perhaps they should manage this like the auto CAFE standard. They could call it Corporate Average Salary of H1B or C.A.S.H for short. I figure they can set an average salary of say $120,000 as these are supposed to be high demand positions. Put say a 5% or so increase a year for inflation as well. Any company not meeting the average will be fined.
With this I could foresee companies trying to sabotage their competitors by wooing their top salaried H1B's and ruining their average. Win for H1B's. Not sure if a limit on how many H1B's would be required with this in place.
I was going to mod you up, but I'll comment instead so people understand.
A big part of the problem with the H1B program is that the visas are tied to one employer. A foreigner comes over to work, finds out the job is crappy, and is stuck in the job. She can't find a better job with better pay or better hours. She either works to the end of the visa, or goes back to her country early.
A big improvement to the program would be to cut this tie. Employers would have to compete for H1B workers, just like they have to compete for American workers. This will raise the wages of H1B workers, which will make H1B workers *less* desirable over American workers.
There would be less H1Bs, and the ones that remained would be skilled workers whose skills are genuinely needed.
In summary, better treatment for H1B workers will lead to better wages and more jobs for American workers.
If you had super powers, would you use them for good, or for awesome?
As an American IT worker, I've never worried about the H-1B worker. Why? Because I'm a well rounded IT worker who has done most if not all of it. I'm not a 10 out 10 on every technology but I have a lot of 7's and 8's and I know more then most about networking, the internet and enterprise computing. I read, I study and I work hard, plus I can communicate effectively and I can lead a team. I'm no better then any other geek or nerd, I just try harder and recognize that what I do for a living is looked at as a cost center in most organizations.
There's no magic here. If you do a good job, communicate well, and are well rounded you should never have to worry about a job. H-1B visa workers are not a threat, they just raise the bar a little bit on native American workers. Ultimately if you are the most valuable choice for a company they will pick you. It's not always about the cheapest laborer.
Good. It's nice to hear there is a fly in that ointment.
If this country is to build up the number of technical people, it needs to pay them. Companies like Microsoft complain there aren't enough skilled people but by abusing the H1B program, they depress the pay scale, they take jobs away from qualified (but more expensive) Americans, etc.
And with a 20% fraud rate, the H1B program needs an overhaul.
Since June of this year, I've seen this several times. Back in June of this year my company had three extremely talented full-time developers do a phone interview on an H1B candidate; the guy passed with flying colors... Once the guy started I didn't see him getting much work done and was always really quiet; I sat right next to him. I find this guy was given simpler and simpler tasks that he couldn't complete and the final straw was that he was asked to write a stored procedure and couldn't do it. He was even called out on the fact that he wasn't the same person in the phone interview; of course he denied it. He was terminated shortly thereafter. He was a subcontractor via another company; the company that placed him there was duped into thinking he had skills when in fact he didn't. I've also had the pleasure (if you want to call it that) of reviewing some of these "skilled candidates" resumes only to find out when it comes down to the technical (in-person) interview they don't know sh*t when they passed a phone skills-test with flying colors.
To be honest I go to work and am in IT because I love what I do. It pisses me off to see people try to fake their way into it for either a green-card or because there is "money" here. These posers who actually make it through the screening process get into companies and cause a big mess for people like me to clean up. Even worse are some who get into management without the slightest inclining of how some of the technology is supposed to work and in return what do they do is bring in more H1B's who don't get IT.
The government should impose some sort of punishment on companies and/or the individuals that take advantage of the system and really the entire H1B process needs to be overhauled. Maybe I should start calling Immigration and reporting these people and companies who are trying to screw over the rest of us who are legitimately trying to make a living in this economy.
Companies are merely exploiting this. Take away the inequality, and they will have no situation to exploit. I am not afraid to compete for jobs on a level playing field. I've asked a few H1Bs whether they were being exploited, and they all said no. But I suppose that's about the same as asking a prostitute whether she willingly chose her line of work. On the other hand, that's a kind of can't win question of the "does this dress make me look fat?" sort.
The first inequality is the terms of H1B employment. If we let people into the US in such a way that companies have no leverage over them, that would stop the abuse. End this requirement that they have to leave almost immediately if they lose their job, and don't make them jump through a bunch of hoops to change jobs.
The second inequality is the miserable conditions in their home countries that gives teeth to the threat to fire them and send them home. No quick fix for that one. Will be years before wages and conditions have equalized sufficiently throughout the world.
Oh, and you all missed another way to cheat the system. Classify a job as something cheaper than what it really is. Hire the H1Bs for development work, but classify them as testers or some such.
Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
I also hold an H-1B, although I'm a Canadian citizen.
Here are two other problems:
1. No medical checks until the very end of the (optional) green card process. Presumably, an employee running around with TB could be spreading it for years without knowing who it was. Bad for US citizens and lawful aliens. A medical exam should be completed prior to entry into the country.
2. Lack of grace period upon job loss. I'm expected to leave in 10 days flat. If you have an apartment full of stuff, it's kinda tough to pull it all together in that timeframe, lest the BCIS agents come to take you away.
3. Lack of typical state benefits upon job loss. If I lose my job, I pay into unemployment but I'm not allowed to collect even to get back what I paid in. Furthermore, I can't collect unemployment from my home country. That means I need to stash money away for that contingency that I could've used elsewhere.
The solution is an indexed and independently audited visa system whereby visa holders get a provisional permanent green card pending medical, educational and experience qualifications at a rate that doesn't exceed the displacement of professionals already in the country above NAIRU, applicant-funded with additional funds set aside automatically for otherwise standard benefits of a citizen. This is the problem that Canada has in dumping a bunch of people from other countries into the workforce where there are already too few tech jobs (although Canada's bigger problem is where professionals can't be credentialed and end up having a worse standard of living than back in their home country driving a taxi).
These are supposed to be exceptional people to fill a role that an American CAN NOT do.
And why is that? What is so god damn important about hiring "Americans" when if we just relaxed immigration and labor restrictions, these people could easily be Americans?
You're just nationalistic, protectionist, greedy, and implicitly racist. What is so damn important about you that we have to hire you over everyone else in the world? Because you live here? Because working at an artificially inflated wage is some god-given right you have? What about everyone else?
I thought this was supposed to be the land of modern capitalism, of free and liquid markets (and yes, the labor market is a market). But whenever immigration comes up everyone stops valuing fair competition. Why is that?
And why don't you realize that a lower cost of labor has benefits for the consumer?
Why are Americans such fucking hypocrites? You should go to China, and live there with the rest of the mercantile racists, you fucking dickwad.
Nice...
Can you prove to me where Microsoft is not paying fairly?
Because otherwise you are talking slander! And that is illegal.
Read the article and the real problem is that the H1B program is being abused because a few outsourcing companies that are taking the lions share of visas.
This is the problem and that needs to be fixed.
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
There is a scam going on here. I kid you not on this one. A manager told me this.
They used to give quizzes to test the abilities of the individuals. Well what happened is that they took note of the questions asked. This was then added to some sort of database that could be retrieved at a moments notice.
The manager said that initially they did not find clients, but then they did. Then the manager realized what happened.
When I interview people I never do it with a cookie cutter approach. What I do is ask some random technical questions and then start drilling on those. It is always different.
My interviews are
1) Very difficult because what I want for you to say is, "I don't know this, but if I had to guess it would be x" Once you say that then we can start working through code and examples since I am getting you to think on the spot.
2) How sure you are about yourself. I very often ask, "are you sure about this?" Even if they are right. I want to see how arrogant you are and if you are willing to apply a judgment call.
As one interviewee said, "your interview is tricky because to pass you need to admit that you don't know certain things. Some companies that I interviewed look at that as weakness. But you didn't hold it against me." We hired this guy... His knowledge was ok, but his on the spot thinking was actually pretty good.
If you are level headed and solid in your materials you will pass with flying colors. And because I put people under stress very often they will say things that they in hindsight should not have.
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
It's not slander. It's libel if anything. And it's opinion so it's not that either
A degree in engineering is good. Engineering as a practice doesn't change a great deal -- technologies and techniques change and improve, but the basics will always apply. The same cannot be said of IT, however. It is a very moving target and closely linked to the technology and even vendor of choice. The basics of computer systems and principles are arguably the same, but people aren't taught that and aren't learning that... even in degree programs.
There is more to being a doctor or a lawyer or even an engineer than merely getting a degree. There are also professional associations and boards regulating their practices and credentials. So far, IT has managed without such professional structure, but the abuses we see are just screaming for it. The workplace is still teeming with people who responded to TV commercials promising "hot careers in technology."
Ultimately, aptitude, skill and talent need to become more measurable. There are too many people out there trying to make IT workers into assembly-line workers... but then again, I just called the classification "IT workers" and not "IT professionals" didn't I? Perhaps it could all start with names/titles.
One group posted a list of H1-B only job openings on wall at the entrance of their area. That lasted a week before someone pointed out that was killing morale.
Pack it up and go home, fanboy.
Ultimately, aptitude, skill and talent need to become more measurable. There are too many people out there trying to make IT workers into assembly-line workers... but then again, I just called the classification "IT workers" and not "IT professionals" didn't I? Perhaps it could all start with names/titles.
IT workers / professionals covers such a large field.
Some of it will become as lowly as factory work. Factory work was once well paid too but there's less risk involved and nearly anyone can do it.
As some aspects of computing become easier and open it up to more people then wages have to drop. It's pure supply and demand and the unfortunate fact is that so many companies rely on computers that the only way to satisfy every business' needs is to train more people.
Why are you upset about the difficult H-1B to immigrant policy? H-1B is not an immigration visa nor is it a path to citizenship. There are other programs for that. You enrolled in a non-immigrant program that wasn't designed to be a foothold for citizenship and now are complaining that the path to citizenship is difficult?
If the skilled worker program needs to be changed, then so be it. But at the moment, it was designed as a time-limited work visa and isn't advertised by the government as a way to attain citizenship. If your employer indicated otherwise, then you were duped. If you hoped otherwise, then it's unfortunate for you. It doesn't mean you should be indignant about it.
That's actually the opposite of what many of us want. How about: just stop letting people immigrate into the U.S. as glorified indentured servants.
I've said it before: I'd love to have open borders for technical talent. I'm willing to compete with anyone in the world on technical ability. And, if they're better than me I guess I'll just have a chance to work for them when they start their own companies.
However, I don't want to take part in a race to the bottom of wages and benefits. And, that's what H1-B and similar programs are designed to do.
Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex Bud.
I was in the Us for about 2 years on TN visas but would have liked to get the H1-B and would have been willing to stay longer (I am Canadian), I was working as a ldap expert doing contract work and worked with Apple and EDS on the GM contract yet when my contract company applied for my H1-B that year 3 times as many applications hit the office in the morning as there where H1-B visas for. Mine was one of them yet I never got one. Then turn around and find a guy working at a McDonnalds as I believe assistant manager who got one of the H1-B's that year. Kind of puts a sour taste in ones mouth that a skilled worker in demand can't get one but a bugger flipper can.
Actually, I'd rather let them come here and get a green card instead of a visa. That way they can move about and not be tied to a company. They would be free to leave if they did not feel they were getting a fair deal.
I find it ironic that the companies complain about a shortage and then support a program that eventually ships all this talent back out of the country. It goes to show that they are not concerned about the "talent". Their definition of a shortage is "we can't find any experienced programmers to work in San Jose for $15 an hour".
Remember, You are unique...just like everyone else.
Microsoft is a software company which has complained about the lack of skilled people. They also pay crap wages. However, the they is ambiguous as to whether or not it includes Microsoft or just Companies like them who are abusing the H1B program.
PS: If you a highly talented coder working 50hours a week and making under 140k your working for peanuts.
Why are you upset about the difficult H-1B to immigrant policy? H-1B is not an immigration visa nor is it a path to citizenship. There are other programs for that.
Would you care to elaborate on that? I am not aware of any other paths to permanent residency or citizenship that are not based on family bonds.
open borders are different than these visa programs, because with an open border there is no implied threat over people's heads that if they ask for fair wages they could get fired and therefore sent home. The wiki entry for H1-B isn't very clear as to whether this has changed, but it sounds like switching firms while on such a visa is at the discretion of both firms.
This State Department site gives an overview of the employment based immigrant visas. H-1B is an employment based NON-immigrant visa.