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RIAA Wants Its $222,000 Verdict Back

NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "The RIAA, unhappy with the Court's decision setting aside its $222,000 jury verdict over $23.76 worth of song files, and throwing out the legal theory on which it was based, has made a motion for permission to file an appeal from the Judge's order, in Capitol v. Thomas. Normally, only final judgments are appealable, and appeals are not permissible in federal court from 'interlocutory' orders of that nature."

37 of 203 comments (clear)

  1. It's not about the money by Bonker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's NEVER been about the money. It's not about compensating the artists. (Ha!)

    This is 100% about trying to keep control of an entire industry in the hands of a very rich, very corrupt few.

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    1. Re:It's not about the money by jskora · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This has been proven over and over so many times, eventually someone in the courts should notice. SCO finally fell, unfortunately the RIAA has bigger war chests.

    2. Re:It's not about the money by philspear · · Score: 5, Funny

      Man, why is everyone always trying to be keeping a group of old, rich, litigious men down? They're just trying to make a few more hundred million dollars by screwing over the entire country, give them a break! I bet when YOU manage to get a monopoly stealing artist's rights, YOU'RE going to want to prosecute every teen who doesn't pay you a 200% markup!

    3. Re:It's not about the money by SL+Baur · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm not sure this is up there yet.

      They are definitely working on it. Read the deposition NYCL gave their "Expert" witness. http://recordingindustryvspeople.blogspot.com/2007/03/deposition-of-riaas-expert-available.html

      It's long, but it's awesome. I'm a programmer, not a lawyer, but after reading that deposition and all the stuff about "MediaDefender" I wonder why the RIAA has gotten as far as it has. If I were a judge my reaction to an RIAA lawsuit landing in my court would be more along the lines of uncontrolled laughter than anything else. I suppose that's why I'm a programmer, not a lawyer.

      Their methods are unsound and sooner or later those RIAA lawyers are going to get Jack Thompsoned.

    4. Re:It's not about the money by Samah · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ...those RIAA lawyers are going to get Jack Thompsoned.

      Best.
      Verb.
      Ever.

      --
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    5. Re:It's not about the money by aadvancedGIR · · Score: 4, Insightful

      SCO had a huge warchest too. What killed them is that their targets were also rich, organized and motivated. RIAA targets almost always lack at least two of these qualities.

  2. Why is this news... by Darundal · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...they only filed a motion, and one that probably won't get far. When it gets far, then this should be front page material.

    1. Re:Why is this news... by Shikaku · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's still news because they have the gall to even apply for it. The judges are clearly not on their side, even if the government is.

    2. Re:Why is this news... by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They're lawyers. They'd have the gall to shoot your mother, have sexual intercourse with her corpse, chop off her ears and send them to you along with an invoice for services rendered.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    3. Re:Why is this news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Not so much. You should see the sorts of motions that are filed on a daily basis. If their attorneys did not file for such appeal, its not only bad strategy but missing such opportunities is the foundation of malpractice. That being said, the appellate courts have a rule (FRAP 37) that grants the courts power to sanction attorneys for frivolous appeals. Up to the point of FRAP 37 sanctions, it is normal to file as many motions as one has time to in major cases.

      Further - exhaustive motion practice is a legitimate strategy where Repeat Players (RIAA is regularly involved in litigation, and needs to be careful to "control" precedent) are up against One-Shot players (individuals who will only be involved in this sort of litigation once). The Repeat Player has extra incentive to invest in the litigation, and may overwhelm the incentive the One-Shot player has. It is for this reason that sanctions exist - courts may order attorney's fees awarded to a winning party where the losing party's conduct was vexatious or in bad faith.

      by the way - why on /. can i not post in firefox? seriously

    4. Re:Why is this news... by ScrewMaster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They're lawyers. They'd have the gall to shoot your mother, have sexual intercourse with her corpse, chop off her ears and send them to you along with an invoice for services rendered.

      Well, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Not all lawyers want to have sex with your mother, alive or otherwise. But yeah ... the RIAA's brand of law is pretty much in the gutter.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    5. Re:Why is this news... by Shikaku · · Score: 5, Funny

      HEY!

      My dad's a lawyer and my mom's dead..... Oh.

    6. Re:Why is this news... by Pervaricator+General · · Score: 5, Funny

      That explains why "Umbrella Corporation" is on your birth certificate...

    7. Re:Why is this news... by david.emery · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ... Not all lawyers want to have sex with your mother, alive or otherwise.

      I'm not convinced. I believe the current approach in legal training and education is that -anything- in support of the client's position is permissable. And frankly that approach is equally applicable in politics these days (not a surprise when the majority of politicians are lawyers.)

      On both sides of the case I've been involved with, I've seen the lawyers say outrageous things, because there's NO CONSEQUENCES for doing so.

      dave

      p.s. tell your mother I'm sorry :-)

    8. Re:Why is this news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      So how much was the bill?

    9. Re:Why is this news... by danomac · · Score: 3, Informative

      by the way - why on /. can i not post in firefox? seriously

      Some plugins (like noscript) will prevent you from running scripts unless explicitly allowed. Allow slashdot.org and post away!

    10. Re:Why is this news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      With all due respect, what is your experience with "the current approach?" How many lawyers do you personally know?

      I ask because I'm a lawyer and while I do represent my client as zealously as I can, I am bound by ethical and personal standards that I cannot, and will not breach. And I feel 99% of the people I work with are the same.

      What actual experience do you have with "legal training and education" that prompted your theory?

  3. Let the punishment fit the crime. by Zaphod+The+42nd · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What lawyer, where, thinks its a good idea to sue some lady for $222,000 for $23 worth of illegal filesharing? Its bad enough the RIAA tried it in the first place, but the court shot them down, and they're still at it? You'd think anybody with half a conscience would move on at this point.

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    1. Re:Let the punishment fit the crime. by Godji · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not about the money. It's about the precedent and the fear.

    2. Re:Let the punishment fit the crime. by ScrewMaster · · Score: 4, Funny

      You'd think anybody with half a conscience would move on at this point.

      See, you just answered your own question.

      This particular batch of attorneys only came preloaded with a fifth of one standard conscience at the factory (50% is the normal setting.) Basically, if you're buying them in quantity, they come a lot cheaper that way: consciences are expensive items, after all. In practice, it's been found that if you install more conscience than that, they start exhibiting undesirable characteristics such as "honesty" and "business ethic". Not a good thing, if you're a soulless, money-grubbing oligopoly. If you don't buy any conscience at all ... well, really really bad things happen.

      Most people don't know this, but some time ago a group of attorneys was ordered for special-purpose use in Congressional and major banking applications. Unfortunately, while the order specified a 75% conscience load, they were accidentally shipped without any. Company personnel colloquially refer to these jobs as the "Manson line" because they have all the personality traits of a typical advanced sociopath. Corporate hatchetmen are frequently M-series, for example.

      If anyone was wondering what caused the recent worldwide financial crisis ... well, now you know. It was a simple clerical error, really.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  4. I love this excerpt: by Forty+Two+Tenfold · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The parties agree that the only evidence of actual dissemination of
    copyrighted works was that Plaintiffs' agent, MediaSentry, copied songs.
    Plaintiffs argue that even if distribution requires an actual transfer, the trial
    evidence established transfers of copyrighted works to MediaSentry. Thomas
    retorts that dissemination to an investigator acting as an agent for the copyright
    owner cannot constitute infringement.

    "It is well–established that the lawful owner of a copyright cannot infringe
    its own copyright."

    --
    Upward mobility is a slippery slope - the higher you climb the more you show your ass.
  5. Hail Mary by overshoot · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Interlocutory appeals are indeed rarely granted; IIRC it's usually when the rest of the case hinges on a point of law and there will be a boatload of work down the drain if the case goes down the wrong track. In this case, the Plaintiffs are going to try to convince the Court that it made an error of discretion in deciding that they (plaintiffs) had played fast and loose with their pleadings.

    Run that by again: they're going to persuade the Court that the Court was not only wrong, but waaaay wrong (abuse of discretion) when the Court decided it had made an error by trusting them.

    Boggle.

    And what's at stake? A retrial, with most of the motion practice and pretrial preparation already complete. Somehow I don't see the Court agreeing that this is so profound and urgent that it can't wait for the trial to be decided on its merits and a final judgment rendered.

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  6. Don't see much wrong by cfulmer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I agree that it would be unusual for the appeal to be granted. But, it does make some sense -- if, on retrial, Thomas wins with the new instruction, then the RIAA will appeal to the 8th circuit on the jury instruction. And, if the 8th circuit agrees with the "Making Available" theory, then the case would go back to the district court where a new jury would have to, again, decide if she made the works available. (Once the second trial has started, I don't think you can go back to the outcome of the first.)

    How many juries do we need?

    1. Re:Don't see much wrong by Fluffeh · · Score: 4, Interesting

      How many juries do we need?

      If you can afford them, keep running through juries till you get one that gives you the answer you want.

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  7. The real reason they're doing this by dkleinsc · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This has nothing to do with expecting to win, and everything to do with attempting to run up the defendant's legal bills.

    A successful motion response to a similarly silly motion (at least in the State of New Hampshire), was the following letter:
    Honorable Justice ____:

    Plaintiff has got to be kidding.

    Respectfully submitted,
    ________ ________, Esq

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    1. Re:The real reason they're doing this by againjj · · Score: 4, Informative
    2. Re:The real reason they're doing this by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This has nothing to do with expecting to win, and everything to do with attempting to run up the defendant's legal bills.

      Yes. That is the one consistent theme in their strategy.

      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  8. Well the jerk store called by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    They want them back.

  9. Technically, they are right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    The RIAA's claim that it's all about compensating the artists is indeed true.

    What they aren't saying is that it's all about compensating the con-artists. :)

  10. A little OT, but I have to say it by Weaselmancer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Thompson seemed to enjoy throwing around frivolous lawsuits as well.

    It hadn't really hit me until I saw this sentence with the word 'seem' in the past tense.

    Damn but that just looks beautiful. Thompson...seemed.

    It just hadn't hit me until right now that he's history. Jeez, but I hope I live long enough to say the same about the RIAA. "The RIAA seemed to like to file frivolous lawsuits."

    Ah, that's going to be great. Can't wait.

    --
    Weaselmancer
    rediculous.
  11. Why they're worried by TheModelEskimo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If the monopolists let this stuff continue, they begin to lose their monopoly, too. A loss for the RIAA here will push music and other media (likely movies) back into the hands of the competitive market. Then you'd see the industry start to equalize, with less-common artists making more money, and famous artists making less. Mostly, though, the monopolists wouldn't make as much money anymore, and that's what counts.

  12. Worried about Precedents on Punishments? by arthurh3535 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    That's the only thing that I can see them really being worried about. Of course, if word got out that they would only charge you 2X or 4X the "real" worth of the purloined materials for non-business transgressions, their whole new business model probably implodes.

    But they would have to admit that they are using corporate-punishments on non-corporate people.

    Somehow, I think that is their worst fear.

    --
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  13. Re:Why WOULD the artists get this money? by FSWKU · · Score: 5, Informative

    That would be because the RIAA have been shouting from the mountaintops since the dawn of time that it's all about the artist. They want to stop filesharing because, according to them, it directly takes money away from the artists in the form of lost sales. Every single anti-P2P campaign you see from them is preaching the same thing. "Please don't hurt the poor artists."

    But in reality, they're just trying to line their own coffers. When someone settles for some outrageous fee, not a damned cent of that goes to "making the artist whole" or making up for their lost sales. Nope, it goes directly into either the lawyer's wallets or the legal war-chest. The artist continues to get screwed to the tune of pennies per album sold, and tough shit about those lost sales killing your already paltry (unless you're Metallica or some other hyper-famous act) royalty payments.

    --
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  14. You're doing it wrong by CSMatt · · Score: 4, Funny

    The joke goes: "The RIAA called. They want their $222,000 verdict back."

  15. This is the end, beautiful friend? by LandruBek · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Their methods are unsound . . .

    RAY BECKERMAN: Everything I saw told me that the RIAA has gone insane. The place was full of bodies: Napster, Limewire, young children, innocent grandmothers. If I was still alive, it was because they wanted me that way.

    RIAA: Where are you from, Beckerman?

    RB: New York, sir.

    RIAA: I worked in New York back in the old days; we pressed vinyl there. It was like heaven on earth then. Have you ever considered any real freedoms? Freedoms - from the opinions of others, even the opinions of your 'clients'? You say why..., Beckerman, why you wanted to terminate my control of the music industry? What did they tell you?

    RB: They told me that you had gone totally insane and that your methods were unsound.

    RIAA: Are my methods unsound?

    RB: I don't see any method at all, sir.

    RIAA: I never expected anyone like you. Are you a pirate?

    RB: I'm a lawyer.

    RIAA: You're neither. You're a monkey wrench, wrecking the beautiful engine of my protection racket.

    (brief court recess)

    RIAA: We are the hollow men / We are the stuffed men
    Leaning together / Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!
    Our dried voices, when / We whisper together
    Are quiet and meaningless
    As wind in dry grass / Or rats' feet over broken glass
    In our dry cellar / Shape without form, shade without colour,
    Paralysed force, gesture without motion

    I've seen horrors . . . extortion that you've seen. But you have no right to call me musical. You have a right to depose me. You have a right to do that . . . But you have no right to judge me. It's impossible for music to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what extortion means. Extortion. Extortion has a face . . . And you must make a friend of extortion. Extortion and financial terror are your friends. If they are not then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies.

    RB: They were going to make me a Digg Hero for this and I wasn't subscribed to their fucking RSS feed any more. Everybody wanted me to do it, everybody except those on the take of course. I felt like they were sitting there, dreading for me to take the gravy train away. They just apparently wanted to go out like douchebags, like poor, wasted, rag-assed dinosaurs. Even the musicians wanted them dead, not that they really took their orders from musicians anyway.

    (The gavel falls.)

    RIAA: The Extortion! The Extortion!

    --
    $META_SIG_JOKE
  16. Re:What we need is... by EMeta · · Score: 4, Funny

    Yeah, that'll work.

  17. Re:What we need is... by Lobster+Quadrille · · Score: 5, Funny

    Somebody mod parent down. It obviously wouldn't work.

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