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CERN Releases Analysis of LHC Incident

Posted by timothy on from the training-exercise-was-too-trite dept.

sash writes "From the fresh press release: 'Investigations at CERN following a large helium leak into sector 3-4 of the Large Hadron Collider tunnel have confirmed that cause of the incident was a faulty electrical connection between two of the accelerator's magnets. This resulted in mechanical damage and release of helium from the magnet cold mass into the tunnel. Proper safety procedures were in force, the safety systems performed as expected, and no one was put at risk. Sufficient spare components are in hand to ensure that the LHC is able to restart in 2009, and measures to prevent a similar incident in the future are being put in place.'"

20 of 149 comments (clear)

  1. But but.... by sanso999 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When is there ever a guarantee when it comes to electrical? Things frizzle, large areas have no power, cables wear out, the list goes on. 2009? I see this being a long project indeed.

    1. Re:But but.... by g-san · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Or consider when you buy the amount of cable they did, that 0.00001% chance of defect creeps in.

    2. Re:But but.... by Candid88 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's a basic "trueism" of civil engineering that when you up the scale, you inevitably up the risks. Every little component which itself has a small risk of failure often adds ontop of each other, ultimately give a far greater risk of failure (or at least construction delays/setbacks). The technology may be sound at one scale, but that doesn't mean getting it to work on a bigger scale isn't difficult and doesn't present new problems.

      This area of the LHC was always a major challenge. I just hope they can overcome this problem (as appears to be the case) but more importantly that the measures taken to prevent future faults work as planned.

  2. They got the idea from Deep Thought by 101010_or_0x2A · · Score: 5, Funny

    If one faulty electrical connection (out of several thousands I'm sure), can cause the "largest scientific project on earth" to stall for 6 months, these hyper-intelligent pan-dimensional beings will probably have to wait for as long as Deep Thought did (7.5 million years I believe) to find out that the world has already ended, and they should've stuck to 42

    1. Re:They got the idea from Deep Thought by Candid88 · · Score: 5, Informative

      "to stall for 6 months"

      I think it needs pointing out though that the LHC was always going to be shutdown over the next few months as a planned contigency period in-case of even bigger faults occuring then the one which did (or construction being delayed as was widely expected).

      The real experiments will be occuring by mid-2009.

  3. Too bad by Dunbal · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's too bad that projects like the LHC will soon run out of funding as bankrupt nations concentrate on keeping their populations fed and/or preventing the overthrow of their governments, rather than burning issues like "what is mass, really, when you get down to it?". Of course glitches and malfunctions like this (and the previous ones) will only serve to put us past the point of possibly having been able to answer that question, but failing due to lack of funding.

    How many billions of Euros have been spent on this project already?

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    1. Re:Too bad by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 5, Insightful

      About the same amount as it takes to build 10 kilometres of underground metro in Budapest.

      --
      It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
      Be yourself no matter what they say
    2. Re:Too bad by Animaether · · Score: 5, Informative

      "The total cost of the project is expected to be 3.2-6.4 billion.[15]" - wikipedia
      [15] = http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/03/god-particle/achenbach-text

      Skimmed over the reference, page 6 states:
      "Some U.S. money has gone into the LHC, which will cost billions of dollars: five, maybe ten--the exact number is elusive (the science will be precise, but the accounting apparently follows the Uncertainty Principle)."

      Contrast that with, say, the Joint Strike Fighter program+purchases:
      "Total development costs are estimated at more than US$40 billion (underwritten largely by the United States), while the purchase of an estimated 2,400 planes is expected to cost an additional US$200 billion.[49]"

    3. Re:Too bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'll take the above as sarcastic...but sometimes it's hard to tell. Honestly, there's always an argument for 'fix the wrongs of society' before funding pure science. ...

      You have committed the logical fallacy of: False Dichotomy.

      This is not an either/or. You could do both (or neither).

      Why is it "pure science" vs "fix the wrongs" instead of "pure science" vs "cosmetics" or "cosmetics" vs "fix the wrongs".

      Additionally, can you ever "fix the wrongs," or will there always be more?

    4. Re:Too bad by Attila+the+Bun · · Score: 5, Funny

      Contrast that with, say, the Joint Strike Fighter program+purchases: "Total development costs are estimated at more than US$40 billion (underwritten largely by the United States), while the purchase of an estimated 2,400 planes is expected to cost an additional US$200 billion.[49]"

      ...and if you arrange all those Joint Strike Fighters in a circle, the circumference is nothing like 27km. And they don't get anywhere near the speed of light. And they hardly ever collide.

      So all in all, the LHC is vastly better value for money.

    5. Re:Too bad by NewsWatcher · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If I had the choice of spending six billion euros on a quest to unlock some of the greatest mysteries on earth, or spend $US700 billion bailing out overpaid bankers and their cash-poor customers, I know what I would choose.

      --
      If the pattern goes 9am, 10am, 11am, why isn't noon 12am?
    6. Re:Too bad by denton420 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Exactly.

      Unfortunately for most of the population, the amount of money that governments generate is unimaginable. (My self included) When you are talking about that much money, the term it self almost loses the everyday definition. It is pure power to make things happen on a huge scale. A mobilizing agent of human power and innovation.

      There is so much money to be spent that the government hardly knows what to do with it all.

      Well maybe that last statement is unfair. They know how to spend it, they just do not know how to do it in an efficient manner without gross negligence in many instances.

      And hey, maybe figuring out what mass is "really" will help us solve world hunger. Its worked before...

    7. Re:Too bad by UCSCTek · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, it seems to me like you can't put the 5 billion euros into both the LHC and other causes at the same time.

      The point about fixing the wrongs is a good one. LHC will ultimately yield substantial progress towards understanding the universe (which, to fully appreciate, you really have to be a physicist). What is the expectation of sinking the money into a social program? Many programs here in the states are poorly constructed or simply underfunded so end up a waste, while some can truly help many people more directly and immediately than basic science research. From this angle, it seems science is a lower risk investment.

      PS Obviously things are just that simple, though...

    8. Re:Too bad by stjobe · · Score: 5, Insightful

      do I have the right to demand YOUR treasure for things that make ME happy.

      In a word: No.

      YOU have no right to demand much of anything from ME. However, if we live in the same society, that society have rights to demand things of both you and me. It might demand some of MY treasure and give it to YOUR pet project.

      When you (implicitly) agree to take part of the benefits of living in a society, you also (implicitly) agree to pay the costs.

      The second you paid your taxes it's no longer your money, it's ours (as in yours and mine and everyone elses in our society). The distribution of which we've decided to leave up to our politicians (since we cannot bother ourselves).

      The politicians do "thoroughly debate" every expenditure, but not necessarily in a venue you or I have (easy) access to. This is in order since we've relinquished our right to influence those decisions.

      --
      "Total destruction the only solution" - Bob Marley
  4. Stop the Insanity!!! by oldhack · · Score: 5, Funny

    Fools!!! Don't you see? LHC turns on, financial blackhole appears out of nowhere and sucks our banks dry! It's just like in the movies - it's the damned physicists, both at CERN and Wall St. Blood's on your hands, you cretins!

    --
    Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
  5. That's what they want you to think. by hey! · · Score: 5, Funny

    What really happened is that the LHC destroyed the universe, but then put it back almost the same way as it was before, at least close enough that nobody noticed it.

    "But," I hear you ask, "how could the LHC put the universe back together from inside a universe that, speaking rather loosely, did not at the moment exist?"

    Well, an equivalent (from an observational standpoint) way of looking at it is that the LHC created a nearly exact duplicate parallel universe at the same time it destroyed the one it was currently residing in. However, it would be totally pointless to create an exact duplicate, otherwise how would you know you actually did it? So it ... left out a bit. Specifically the bit that was containing the liquid helium in LHC'.

    It really is one hell of a parlor trick.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    1. Re:That's what they want you to think. by HertzaHaeon · · Score: 5, Funny

      I think I may have found one more difference in the new universe.

      I woke up on the day of the accident with a goatee, which of course means I am my evil twin in this universe.

    2. Re:That's what they want you to think. by hyades1 · · Score: 5, Funny

      CRAP! Why didn't I think of that!

      I just got busted by the guys on my hockey team for wearing panties. When one of them asked how long I'd been doing that, I had to tell him, "Since my girlfriend found them in my glove box."

      --
      I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
  6. Meanwhile, in related news ... by PPH · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... officials at CERN reassured the scientific community, in high, squeaky voices, that the helium leak will have minimal impact on the LHC program over the long run.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  7. Re:Bleah. Big hassle. by cmorriss · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's all plumbing and electrical work.

    Send in Joe the Plumber!

    --
    10 minutes working on a sig. What a waste.