Indian Moon Mission Launched

hackerdownunder writes "India's maiden lunar mission (Chandrayaan-1) got off to a flying start today. Describing the launch as 'perfect and precise,' the chairman of the Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO), G Madhavan Nair, said that it would be 14 days before the satellite would enter into lunar orbit. Chandrayaan carries eleven payloads: five designed and developed in India, three from the European Space Agency, one from Bulgaria and two from NASA."

Comments

How things are turning out.

[Anonymous Coward]

The Third World is exploring space, developing scientists and engineers, and developing their economies.

Here in the US, we're developing our military, discouraging the study of science and engineering, discouraging all rational thought (God did it!), spending resources on some nebulous terrorist threat the will come some day (or so we're told), and developing industries based on chance and moving money around.

I wonder which society has better long term prospects for its people, economy, and Government?

Re:How things are turning out.

[dspolleke]

India is not / no longer part of the third world. Wake up and smell the coffee. It is Asia that is going to rule the world this century. China and India are both in a race into space, both large players in the world economy (outsourcing of technical staff to india, industry to China). Besides, India and China have 1 billion+ innhabitants each so a third of the world population is living there.. Where America fails to deliver payload to the ISS (where Russia is succeeding) Asia is quickly catching up. The whole world should turn their economy towards renewable energy and towards Asia instead of Oil and America. As european i don't understand where the american arrogance (and ignorance) comes from.. No flamebait intended

Re:How things are turning out.

[ashraya]

Whats with morons bringing up the poverty side of things everytime a scientific achievement of India is brought up? Yes there is poverty and Homeless in India. I see hobos in the UK too. There are more people in that country, so the ratio of Hobos is more. Whats to be appreciated is this - With the kind of pressure that a democratic government faces, imagine the budget pressures an organization like ISRO has? Even NASA is buckling because of budget cuts. If ISRO can achieve things despite poverty, despite such tight budgets, its a much bigger achievement! Remember, this is not China we are talking about where scientific progress can sometimes come at the cost of the people. India is a democracy - Lives are being improved. I used to live in whats a slum - in my childhood. Millions like me got a chance to improve because of an education system, flawed as it is, that is cheap. Dont deride the scientific achievements in face of other difficulties the country faces. The country thrives despite adversity, and sometimes because of adversity!

Re:How things are turning out.

[partenon]

India is not / no longer part of the third world.

I agree with everything you said, excepted the quote above. India *is* part of the Third World in all the definitions I know:

- Not aligned with either the West or East in Cold War
- Not a country with high HDI (Human Development Index)
- Is a "developing country"

But maybe you have another definition for it?

Re:How things are turning out.

[trongey]

...Give a man unemployment pay and you feed him for a month. Teach a man to design radiation hardened telecom transceivers and you feed him (and 100 others) for life.

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and he'll spend his days in a boat, drinking beer and getting sunburned.

Re:How things are turning out.

[HungryHobo]

Poverty itself isn't the problem, it's inherited poverty that's the problem.

"Fair" doesn't mean "everyone succeeds"
"Fair" means everyone gets a decent chance to succeed and those who get things right do succeed more.
You can still get unlucky on a fair dice role and be screwed.

"Unfair" only kicks in when you go for multiple generations and players start with less chips and the game loaded against them.

Problem is that almost no societies are fair, they either remove the ability of those capable of doing well from benefiting from it for the sake of the losers or alternatively screw the kids of people who've done badly for the benefit of the winners of the last round and their kids.

Re:How things are turning out.

[gstoddart]

Science and god are opposites. ... Of course, if you like to believe in magical sky wizards, please go ahead, but don't dare bring your beliefs on anyone else in the world. They are your personal beliefs and you should be entitled to that, but not to bring that upon other people.

I think you're being a little "black and white" on this topic.

Science and god aren't opposites. It's not either science or god. Science and god speak to completely different endeavors and areas of human interest. Science attempts to explain the physical phenomenon around us. Religion contemplates mans place in the universe, his role in it, and the "meaning" of our actions and lives.

Science tells us the big bang happened. If you don't believe in the big bang, that's your problem. However, there's nothing that stops you from believing in the big bang, and the notion that god was the prime force behind it -- essentially, creationism but on a much huger scale than typically explained by religions.

There are many educated, intelligent people, who are completely capable of believing that god exists and not have to worry about any incompatibility in these two beliefs. It's the belief that either science or religion are true and there's no room for them to coexist which is the problem.

At present, science can't disprove the notion of god. In fact, god and all that implies takes over where science ends. Believing that some divine power caused the big bang isn't irrational, it just requires a leap of faith. That leap of faith, however, doesn't need to be at odds with science. I know astrophysicists who accept all of the physics on face value and still believe that, ultimately, god is out there. Their belief doesn't in any way affect their objectivity behind what the science tells us -- their religion supports their spirituality and morality, and their science allows them to investigate physical reality.

And, before anyone accuses me of defending the concept of religion from the perspective of a religious person -- I was raised protestant, spent about 20 years being an atheist, and now buddhism informs my morality and world view, but I don't actually believe in a god per se. But, I don't believe that all people who do believe are a bunch of crazy wing nuts who are gullible idiots.

Cheers

Re:How things are turning out.

[niiler]

And yet the space program here in the US generated a number of clearly documented benefits to society and the economy. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_Budget">wikipedia:

Other statistics and confirmation that "Space pays" may also be found in the 1976 Chase Econometrics Associates, Inc. reports ("The Economic Impact of NASA R&D Spending: Preliminary Executive Summary.", April 1975. Also: "Relative Impact of NASA Expenditure on the Economy.", March 18, 1975) and backed by the 1989 Chapman Research report, which examined just 259 non-space applications of NASA technology during an eight year period (1976-1984) and found more than:

• $21.6 billion in sales and benefits;
• 352,000 (mostly skilled) jobs created or saved,and;
• $355 million in federal corporate income taxes

Now, that said, it doesn't mean that the Indian program will be nearly as successful. But it does point out that these benefits are real and have been documented. Since some of the benefits are jobs creation, this can go towards benefiting people other than the upper class.

Only $ 80 Mn

[ami.one]

At around Rs. 400 Crore / USD 80 Million, it must be the cheapest unmanned moon mission and.... 1st post

mission control transcript

[retech]

"This is Chandrayaan-1 we have a problem."

"You have reached mission control. Your call is very important to us. Please hold and the next available representative will be with you shortly."

"This is Chandrayaan-1 we are losing thrust and are off course."

"Remember, mission control is here for you. Have you heard about our latest service pack upgrades and special licensing agreements? Press one now if you'd like to hear more. If not, continue holding and your call will be answered in the order recieved. Thank you for calling mission control!"

Re:f1r5t m00nlanding

[martin_henry]

About 18.2 minutes later, ISRO Chairman G Madhavan Nair declared the launch successful which sent over a 1000 space scientists into a bout of jubilation. ( Watch )

Yeah that party sounds like it would be 'off the hook'!

Old-Fashioned Navel-Gazing

[sanman2]

India's economy has turned around due to technology outsourcing to India by the rest of the world. This outsourcing started happening when Indians began showing the outside world that Indians aren't just the hungry clamouring mobs always shown on TV. As the world realized this, they began to see value in sending work to India. By accomplishing things like Chandrayaan, or building the Tata Nano, etc, Indians demonstrate to the world their talents and abilities, which increases the world's willingness to trade and work with India, creating jobs and economic growth in the country. Some Indians commenting here are unfortunately the backward navel-gazing types, who will never understand the basis for economic growth and alleviation of poverty. They still think in the most primitive backward terms about how to bring development, prosperity and relief to the masses. The lost opportunities and economic stagnation of the past 50 years under the social welfare state show how such narrow mindsets can wreak havoc on a country. The answer lies in Indians showing each other and the world how to be achievers, instead of just beggars forever clamouring with their palms outstretched.

Re:Old-Fashioned Navel-Gazing

[HungryHobo]

Cut down version of the above:

They made it easier for companies to outsource to india and invested in education so they had something to sell(labour).

Re:Old-Fashioned Navel-Gazing

[vu2lid]

The lost opportunities and economic stagnation of the past 50 years under the social welfare state show how such narrow mindsets can wreak havoc on a country.

This (often repeated) story about "lost opportunities during first 50 years of India" etc is a myth. It shows a lack of understanding of post independence history of India.

When India became independent there were groups of politicians who repeatedly argued against setting up of national laboratories and research institutions that exist in India right now. They argued that there is no need to "waste" money in those for a country like India, since one can always buy things from outside. If India had followed that approach it would be society with significant problems with poverty and related social tensions right now (If you need proof just look at the state of development of society in the country which is neighbor to India, which became independent during the same time).

It is ridiculous to not to notice significant success of poverty reduction and increase in living standard in a complex society like India without creating major social tensions (if you do not know - famines with repeated crop failures were common in pre-independence India). A lot of the credit for this goes to development of strong independent research and industrial base during the early stages (Indian space program is a part of this).

Re:Old-Fashioned Navel-Gazing

[wiz_80]

Ha! the wonderful belief that free market capitalism will solve all the worlds problems and mitigate poverty!

Do you really think that private corporations with no compulsions other than "shareholder value" will consider the good of the poor?

The private corporations don't have to care. That's the point of capitalism. The whole thing is based on the idea that if you have something I want and I have something you want, we negotiate until we find some mutually beneficial exchange which leaves us both better off. The crucial point is that I am only worried about my own well-being.

Do you really think that you and I would be better off if we sent our two things in to some central government committee, which would evaluate how much they were worth, how much we needed them, and how much we deserved, then take a cut to fund the system before handing us our Fair Share? I would much rather deal directly, TYVM.

That many large corporations (such as my employer) make correspondingly large donations to charity is also something to bear in mind, but the point is that it's not required, and the system ensures that there are advantages anyway.

The problems that we are seeing now are due to some misguided attempts to mess with the workings of the system. It's complex, with all sorts of feedback, and most of its failure modes are quite spectacularly nasty for those affected. I just hope They can reboot it in time: http://newsbiscuit.com/article/world-leader-agree-rescue-plan-turn-all-the-computers-off-and-then-turn-them-back-on-again-382

NO. and please dont comment without researching

[unity100]

it first.

1.000.000 people unable to pay for their mortgages nets to a loss around $300 bn, if the houses were bought from $600 k by the bank and their values now $300 k.

thats only 1/3 of the cash us had prepared for its banks, its also around 1/10 of the cash that europe has provided.

you see, the funds provided had already covered approx 20 times that loss, if you count in what japan, korea and other nations have readied.

you should have understood by now that this is nothing related to unpaid mortgages or poor people, or fannie mae freddie mac. this is the bullshit that republican bastards are feeding you to get off the hook.

the real problem is this :

banks are allowed to lend approx 10 times the total assets they have. because its logical - money turns slow, so it doesnt create a problem. its all valid liquidity wise. this ratio is a healthy ratio and its checked by government regulation.

but, due to the lawless environment republicans and holistic economists have created by yelping 'hands off business' 'government out' 'government bad for economy, youll cost jobs to people', government regulation was totally hampered in that sector since reagan era.

then what happened ? in this unregulated environment, some bastards realized this ; if they show those mortgages as assets, and then create DERIVATIVE assets over them (called hedge funds in general because they accept all kinds of 'assets'), they can sell/trade those assets !!!

and they proceeded to do that. they created assets linked to those mortgage assets, then started trading them. attracted investors. those funds have inflated in value, disproportionately. imagine the funds value becoming $ 20 trillion instead of the mortgage value of $ 200 bn. this is round one.

in round two, they went further. they showed those DERIVATIVES as assets. meaning, despite they had $200 bn worth of mortgage assets, they now had $20 trillion worth of hedge funds/investments tied to those mortgages !! and they started lending by showing their total assets as $20 trillion plus $200 bn !!! see the point ? they started lending money THEY DONT HAVE !

see the issue now ?!

someone should have stepped in, checked their books and said 'hey, you dont have that much assets. what you are showing me as assets are actually derivative papers tied to OTHER assets. these are NOT real, and they are OVERvalued !!' and stopped them in their tracks.

but noone did. because a lot of poodles were yelping 'hands off economy !!'. so it went like this, those banks lent to countries, governments, megacorporations, traded those investment funds SO widely around the world that every bank in the world got infested by those funds.

then it was discovered. and today we are here.