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Where to Find Axles, Gears For Kinetic Sculpture?
sneakyimp writes "My brother is an architect and sculptor and wants to create kinetic sculptures powered by wind, steam, and sun. He wants to avoid electrical systems and keep this mechanical. He's prepared to cast metals for custom parts if necessary, but is hoping to find a cheap source of gears, axles, and bearings for the internal mechanical workings of these contraptions. We'll need things like miter/bevel/spur/helical gears, standard and thrust bearings, and axles." Read on below for more on the details of what sneakyimp is looking for — dismembered Capsela units won't do it.
sneakyimpo continues: "These parts won't need to support much power or torque (probably less than 1 horsepower / 550 ft-lbs). Ideally, we could get a kit which contains a variety of bevel and spur gears, a few axles, and standardized connect interfaces — kind of like a box of Legos for tinkering and prototyping.
I found the Stock Drive Products site and it looks like an extensive catalog, but one really needs to know what one is looking for and I don't think we're there yet. I've also found custom gear manufacturers and cheap plastic hobby kits but these are either too outrageously expensive or ridiculously under qualified for the job at hand.
I was wondering if any of you robot builders or mechanical engineers could recommend a good starter kit with an assortment of gears or perhaps a supplier that deals in appropriately spec'ed gears rather than industrial-strength SUV transmissions."
I was wondering if any of you robot builders or mechanical engineers could recommend a good starter kit with an assortment of gears or perhaps a supplier that deals in appropriately spec'ed gears rather than industrial-strength SUV transmissions."
It's called a metal shop.
They make these things in bulk.
You can often buy some of the more "standard" pieces fairly cheaply if you're friendly. Anything else will need to be custom-made, which they can also do, but for a much steeper price.
www.mcmaster.com
I'm no expert and I didn't really read exactly what you were looking for, but what about going to places like Goodwill / Salvation Army Stores / Garage sales and disassembling some of the older toys that are likely missing parts. I'm sure an old music box has some good quality metal gears, etc. and you probably won't spend more than a few bucks.
Layne
http://www.sciplus.com/
Seriously, this place has a ton of random stuff. You would have to walk through there, but it is a nerd/engineer's wet dream. Anyone else know of this place? http://www.sciplus.com/
I'm not sure if this will fit your needs, but old used bicycles are cheap to find and full of cables, levers, cranks and gears -- all compatible with one another. (small wheels make good belt-pullies too)
I've seen some great and complex stuff made from bike parts.
is the glaringly obvious answer
although it depends on the size he wants
there'll be plenty of parts there - differential, drive shaft, prop shaft, gearbox, flywheel, starter motor, steering will all have parts he can use, and from the last time i was in a scrapper they'll be pretty cheap particularly if he goes for the older cars.
might need some dismantling though, which isn't easy on a rusting heap
Meccano is made for small scale kinetic sculpture.
Spare bike parts. Should be cheap, strong enough for a couple hp, pretty standard. More chain drive than gear drive, but the idea is the same. Lots of variety in bearings.
An old self-propelled lawnmower should have a belt drive to satisfy your requirements as well.
Are blenders direct drive, or are they gear reduction? 500 watts is around 1 hp, so that could work too.
Planning to be moderated ± 1: Bad Pun.
He wants to keep this mechanical.
As opposed to...?
Magnetically stabilised plasma girders?
Holographical joints?
Fusion Axles?
Transmissions, differentials, and front wheel spindles on RWD cars ready for the crusher.
550 ft/lbs is one helluva lot of torque. Try your local car recycler.
Sig this!
Smallparts.com has a selection, but not really cheap.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
old clocks are chock full of brass gearing and bearings. steer clear of antique shops though, since you will definitely pay way to much for something you are planning on destroying anyway.
Also, kinex and lego mindstorms have nice stuff, but I think you are talking about much larger structures?
Bicycle repair shops come to mind for stuff larger than clockwork.
hobbyist organisations no doubt have resources to check. Check out Make magazine's forums for people who do what you are planning
http://makezine.com/community/
More music, fewer hits
If you are looking for parts try a junk yard. You may have to do some driving to find the right "kind" of junkyard. Some specialize in parts that can be re-used in vehicles as originally intended. These junkyards are expensive. Look for a yard in a small town or in the country. I've been to junkyards that will sell you stuff by how much you can carry or how much you can fit on a cart. These are the best because you can get a lot of stuff pretty cheap.
Bring a good set of gloves, make sure your tetanus shot is up to date, and have a ton of fun digging through the junk.
Don't anthropomorphize computers. They *hate* that.
Meshing gears are far more expensive than chain & sprockets and require greater precision when installed or they'll wear out quickly. They also need more protection from the elements and do not like at all to be dirty. As for axles, I assume your friend can weld a shaft onto a standard spindle. If you can afford timing belts and toothed sprockets, you can maybe eliminate the need to regularly lubricate the thing - so long as you use sealed bearings. If you insist on gears, try Boston Gear and they'll tell you who your local vendors are.
An automotive junkyard might be a good bet for some of that sort of stuff - not just transmission bits, there are plenty of other motors and gears (windows, starter, various pumps) you could strip parts from. You'ld probably need a pretty good idea of what you want exactly to go that route, though.
Google suppliers of steampunk stuff. Lots and lots of gears and widgets to be found in weird places.
Your average heat treater is going to have gears and pieces that get screwed up during nitriding or other operations. Since you are doing sculptures, its quite possible you don't need the case hardening that a regular customer needs. See if you can find a shop that does a lot of pinion and sun gears for example, then offer to buy on the cheap things they can't fix in re-work. Since its a sculpture, you probably don't need to go custom on some of the sizes.
What would Richard Feynman do, if he were here right now? He'd do some math and he'd follow through!
As others have written there are a several places to get good parts. Of course it depends on the size of the sculpture, and weight of the pieces.
I build pick and place robots for a living, excellent resources are always good to have.
Besides Granger, McMaster there is also:
Standard Din sizes, and also american
http://mdmetric.com/
another good one stock drive products
http://www.sdp-si.com/
And If you need to handle larger loads, as I expect your sculptures to need. Seek your local power distribution company (as in gear boxes).
This is one of many (Motion Industries)
https://www.motionindustries.com/motion3/jsp/mi/index.jsp
for a large list click below
http://search.globalspec.com/productfinder/findproducts?query=gear%20box&se=ggka&setag=MOTN
Look up Kinetic Sculpture Racing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_sculpture_race
The guys who do this build wacky and weird human-powered contraptions. These are supposed to go on land, water, sand, and mud, and be only human-powered. (Some vehicles fail in one or more of these categories; but they can avoid being disqualified by providing sufficient bribes to the Kinetic Kops. In plain sight of all onlookers, of course.) Vehicles that can do all of the above, without any "pilots" leaving the vehicle to adjust things, get the "ACE Award" for good engineering.
One of my favorite kinetic sculpture vehicles is a behemoth that carries four people, each of whom provides power to one wheel, and one of whom has the steering wheel and brakes. I have also seen a vehicle that carried eight people, all powering a common drive train.
Anyway, these races have been happening for decades, and you can find the discussion lists where the KSR community discusses where to get parts, how to make things strong and reliable, etc.
For the glory!
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
Eric Freitas is an artist/clock maker that makes all his gears, screws, etc. by hand. He has step by step photos showing his techniques on his site if you want examples on how it's done.
It has mechanisms and mechanical ideas that you'd never have thought of to do all sorts of interesting movements - ideal for any dynamic sculptures etc.
And while you're looking for power sources, consider Stirling machines. Unlike steam, they don't use water so can't boil dry.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
http://www.wmberg.com/ McMaster is definitely good, but I've found that WM Berg has more to offer in the area of pulleys, belts and the like. They may not qualify as cheap, but they can also be used as a reference...
And also bits of old garden machinery.
Unless you are recycling something, metal gears are really expensive. Plastic ones are generally extruded or formed rather than machines, so their price is less, but the capacity is less, too.
Pulleys and belts are relatively inexpensive, and can handle a lot more misalignment. There are cogged pulleys and belts, if you have timing applications.
As others have posted, http://www.McMaster.com is the key reference. Their prices range from competitive to outrageous, depending on the item. Their shipping always seems ridiculously inexpensive, unless it is a long item (6ft long threaded rod, for instance).
I generally get bearings and drill rod (good for shafts/axles) from http://www.use-enco.com when they go on sale.
A mini-lathe might be helpful to make collars and sleeves to get oddball parts to fit together. Look here for more info http://www.mini-lathe.com.
This company has amazing kits. You can build working machine tools if youre so inclined. Also hobbyengineering.com has some cool stuff thats much less spendy.
Support bacteria, the only culture most people have.
It's amazing the range and quality of parts in a dead office copier. Same goes for heavy duty printers and even scanners. Belt drives, couplings, pillow blocks, and on and on and on. But watch out for the obvious. If you think disassembling a car was messy, wait until you're getting smeared with three kinds of lubricant and toner is getting into every nook and cranny of your body. Man, that stuff makes sand seem unintrusive. Keep a dozen rolls of paper towels on hand. Seriously.
It's all about the information. And what we do with it.
I would like to put in an entirely self-promoting word for Big Blue Saw. 12 pitch (and possibly finer) gears come out just fine when waterjet cutting, and can be a lot cheaper than having custom gears made at a gear specialist. See my photos of an aluminum gear made for a fighting robot.
Your design to a real part online: Big Blue Saw
So you've not heard of such places as Bearing Suppliers, industrial hardware suppliers, etc.? Do they not have yellow pages where you are? Or the google?
Seriously, my local bearing shop can supply bearings, runners, castors, racks, pinions, gears, cogs, pulleys, belts, etc. from tiny precision bits to earthmover size.
There is no music - home taping killed it.
You'ld probably need a pretty good idea of what you want exactly to go that route, though.
Traditionally the form of a kinetic sculpture is determined by the parts available, not the other way around. The challenge is to make something great given a whole lot of stuff that's not. Then again, most artists are poor and good scroungers.
Idea: find an old factory being decommissioned and start stripping machines. Pay slightly more than scrap if you need to.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
First of two, there is a neat range of stuff at
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/
Second of two, you can do nifty things with just steam and pistons, but I assume you'll be doing that anyway.. =p
John
Try here and here. I build custom automation for for a living. Find a waterjet company in your area and have them make your custom stuff. If you want to get really artistic or detailed you might have to buy your own machine shop equipment. However with the tanking economy, they can be had cheap.
We are all just people.
Being a machinist, I'm telling you that the approach you just offered is a hell of alot of investment, time, and learning.
I've been a machinist for 5 years, I've worked on aerospace, medical, and defense parts. Even to this day, without a damned expensive hogging machine, it still takes alot of time and all my expertise to properly machine one gear. Keep in mind here that I'm in charge of Journeymen with decades of experience, who still come to me with questions. My employer bills my time at $65/hr, and it can take me 2 days to make a custom gear. Don't forget material or tooling, we charge you for that too.
You're better off having a GEAR shop (Note that they're often quite different from a machine shop) make your quarry, far cheaper and less hassle. Gear making can be done by a machinist, but our equipment isn't geared for it (pun intended). The fact that any given gear has 31 related characteristics to it that all have to be held to a notable tolerance makes things a royal pain in the ass.
Best thing to do is to get a Machinery Handbook (decent coin, but the best investment a tinkerer will EVER make), learn the different pitches and what not, and order the gears from there. Once you realize what it is you want to do with it, there are only three things you need to know. Teeth, Pitch, and Diameter. Pitch need to be the same, teeth and diameter dictate power transfer and at what rate. Check out McMaster Carr, or MSC. As a matter of fact, McMaster Carr has some educational material on their site, just search for "gears". Even for worm and pinions, once you know what you're going to do with them, you just have to make up your mind about size.
Of all the Universal Constants, here's one I know: Nice guys finish last
Want a source of axles, chain drive, gears, etc?
Raid busted Xerox machines, the large ones you find in offices. I've rebuilt my bike totally from Xerox machine parts.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.