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Where to Find Axles, Gears For Kinetic Sculpture?
sneakyimp writes "My brother is an architect and sculptor and wants to create kinetic sculptures powered by wind, steam, and sun. He wants to avoid electrical systems and keep this mechanical. He's prepared to cast metals for custom parts if necessary, but is hoping to find a cheap source of gears, axles, and bearings for the internal mechanical workings of these contraptions. We'll need things like miter/bevel/spur/helical gears, standard and thrust bearings, and axles." Read on below for more on the details of what sneakyimp is looking for — dismembered Capsela units won't do it.
sneakyimpo continues: "These parts won't need to support much power or torque (probably less than 1 horsepower / 550 ft-lbs). Ideally, we could get a kit which contains a variety of bevel and spur gears, a few axles, and standardized connect interfaces — kind of like a box of Legos for tinkering and prototyping.
I found the Stock Drive Products site and it looks like an extensive catalog, but one really needs to know what one is looking for and I don't think we're there yet. I've also found custom gear manufacturers and cheap plastic hobby kits but these are either too outrageously expensive or ridiculously under qualified for the job at hand.
I was wondering if any of you robot builders or mechanical engineers could recommend a good starter kit with an assortment of gears or perhaps a supplier that deals in appropriately spec'ed gears rather than industrial-strength SUV transmissions."
I was wondering if any of you robot builders or mechanical engineers could recommend a good starter kit with an assortment of gears or perhaps a supplier that deals in appropriately spec'ed gears rather than industrial-strength SUV transmissions."
It's called a metal shop.
They make these things in bulk.
You can often buy some of the more "standard" pieces fairly cheaply if you're friendly. Anything else will need to be custom-made, which they can also do, but for a much steeper price.
www.mcmaster.com
I'm no expert and I didn't really read exactly what you were looking for, but what about going to places like Goodwill / Salvation Army Stores / Garage sales and disassembling some of the older toys that are likely missing parts. I'm sure an old music box has some good quality metal gears, etc. and you probably won't spend more than a few bucks.
Layne
http://www.sciplus.com/
Find a local computer recycler and fish through their pile of dot matrix printers.
Seriously, this place has a ton of random stuff. You would have to walk through there, but it is a nerd/engineer's wet dream. Anyone else know of this place? http://www.sciplus.com/
I'm not sure if this will fit your needs, but old used bicycles are cheap to find and full of cables, levers, cranks and gears -- all compatible with one another. (small wheels make good belt-pullies too)
I've seen some great and complex stuff made from bike parts.
Lots of cool stuff here
is the glaringly obvious answer
although it depends on the size he wants
there'll be plenty of parts there - differential, drive shaft, prop shaft, gearbox, flywheel, starter motor, steering will all have parts he can use, and from the last time i was in a scrapper they'll be pretty cheap particularly if he goes for the older cars.
might need some dismantling though, which isn't easy on a rusting heap
Meccano is made for small scale kinetic sculpture.
Spare bike parts. Should be cheap, strong enough for a couple hp, pretty standard. More chain drive than gear drive, but the idea is the same. Lots of variety in bearings.
An old self-propelled lawnmower should have a belt drive to satisfy your requirements as well.
Are blenders direct drive, or are they gear reduction? 500 watts is around 1 hp, so that could work too.
Planning to be moderated ± 1: Bad Pun.
He wants to keep this mechanical.
As opposed to...?
Magnetically stabilised plasma girders?
Holographical joints?
Fusion Axles?
Here's a "interesting biz in our area" piece in my local paper. Contact them, or any other local design house: http://www.courant.com/business/hc-cornershop1008.artoct08,0,6635443.story
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Transmissions, differentials, and front wheel spindles on RWD cars ready for the crusher.
550 ft/lbs is one helluva lot of torque. Try your local car recycler.
Sig this!
Smallparts.com has a selection, but not really cheap.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
old clocks are chock full of brass gearing and bearings. steer clear of antique shops though, since you will definitely pay way to much for something you are planning on destroying anyway.
Also, kinex and lego mindstorms have nice stuff, but I think you are talking about much larger structures?
Bicycle repair shops come to mind for stuff larger than clockwork.
hobbyist organisations no doubt have resources to check. Check out Make magazine's forums for people who do what you are planning
http://makezine.com/community/
More music, fewer hits
If you are looking for parts try a junk yard. You may have to do some driving to find the right "kind" of junkyard. Some specialize in parts that can be re-used in vehicles as originally intended. These junkyards are expensive. Look for a yard in a small town or in the country. I've been to junkyards that will sell you stuff by how much you can carry or how much you can fit on a cart. These are the best because you can get a lot of stuff pretty cheap.
Bring a good set of gloves, make sure your tetanus shot is up to date, and have a ton of fun digging through the junk.
Don't anthropomorphize computers. They *hate* that.
Meshing gears are far more expensive than chain & sprockets and require greater precision when installed or they'll wear out quickly. They also need more protection from the elements and do not like at all to be dirty. As for axles, I assume your friend can weld a shaft onto a standard spindle. If you can afford timing belts and toothed sprockets, you can maybe eliminate the need to regularly lubricate the thing - so long as you use sealed bearings. If you insist on gears, try Boston Gear and they'll tell you who your local vendors are.
An automotive junkyard might be a good bet for some of that sort of stuff - not just transmission bits, there are plenty of other motors and gears (windows, starter, various pumps) you could strip parts from. You'ld probably need a pretty good idea of what you want exactly to go that route, though.
Google suppliers of steampunk stuff. Lots and lots of gears and widgets to be found in weird places.
Perhaps the greatest company in the world. McMaster has a huge inventory, reasonable prices, quick delivery and an easy to use website. If you want gears, machinable material, welding supplies, or anything else a kinetic sculptor would need, you should find it there.
For smaller parts, I'd take apart old printers, photocompiers, fax machines, et cetera. They have lots of pieces to help move the paper... (They're also a great source of ports, general electronics, and lots of stepper motters.)
Consider other devices you're throwing out (toasters, harddrives, et cetera).
Reasonably heavy duty, cheap, and readily available.
moox. for a new generation.
Your average heat treater is going to have gears and pieces that get screwed up during nitriding or other operations. Since you are doing sculptures, its quite possible you don't need the case hardening that a regular customer needs. See if you can find a shop that does a lot of pinion and sun gears for example, then offer to buy on the cheap things they can't fix in re-work. Since its a sculpture, you probably don't need to go custom on some of the sizes.
What would Richard Feynman do, if he were here right now? He'd do some math and he'd follow through!
Grainger is an industrial parts supplier. A lot like mcmaster.
Lots of surplus companies sell that kind of stuff. Check out surpluscenter for instance.
As others have written there are a several places to get good parts. Of course it depends on the size of the sculpture, and weight of the pieces.
I build pick and place robots for a living, excellent resources are always good to have.
Besides Granger, McMaster there is also:
Standard Din sizes, and also american
http://mdmetric.com/
another good one stock drive products
http://www.sdp-si.com/
And If you need to handle larger loads, as I expect your sculptures to need. Seek your local power distribution company (as in gear boxes).
This is one of many (Motion Industries)
https://www.motionindustries.com/motion3/jsp/mi/index.jsp
for a large list click below
http://search.globalspec.com/productfinder/findproducts?query=gear%20box&se=ggka&setag=MOTN
Look up Kinetic Sculpture Racing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_sculpture_race
The guys who do this build wacky and weird human-powered contraptions. These are supposed to go on land, water, sand, and mud, and be only human-powered. (Some vehicles fail in one or more of these categories; but they can avoid being disqualified by providing sufficient bribes to the Kinetic Kops. In plain sight of all onlookers, of course.) Vehicles that can do all of the above, without any "pilots" leaving the vehicle to adjust things, get the "ACE Award" for good engineering.
One of my favorite kinetic sculpture vehicles is a behemoth that carries four people, each of whom provides power to one wheel, and one of whom has the steering wheel and brakes. I have also seen a vehicle that carried eight people, all powering a common drive train.
Anyway, these races have been happening for decades, and you can find the discussion lists where the KSR community discusses where to get parts, how to make things strong and reliable, etc.
For the glory!
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
smallparts.com has things along these lines and I've ordered various hardware from them in the past.
Auto junkyard.
The Black Hole if you're close enough.
Most any plant has a pile of junk. Many gizmos in there.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
They have a good selection, and are quick to ship. We purchased many parts for our entry in Baltimore's Kinetic Sculpture race.
If you're looking for a good selection of gears, dig down into the Power Transmission / Transaxle section, and take apart one of the 2-speed Peerless transaxles. There are bevel gears, a differential, and several nice spur pairs on shafts. Sometimes this transaxle pops up for less money, but not much less.
Eric Freitas is an artist/clock maker that makes all his gears, screws, etc. by hand. He has step by step photos showing his techniques on his site if you want examples on how it's done.
The right place to start is with a scale model. Typically a project, especially a visual project, doesn't work out quite perfectly on the first pass anyway, even if you are familiar with the capabilities of your mechanical components. The experience you gain by prototyping is invaluable. A scale model let's you test out ideas inexpensively (where plastic gears and parts are sufficient) and see what works and what doesn't before committing to the (much more expensive) final design.
Fail early, succeed sooner.
It frightens me that you think that 1hp isn't much power. That's plenty to shear off fingers during development. And even if a system is low power, that doesn't mean it will be low energy unless it is adequately damped. (I know people who have been cut up by a wind powered kinetic sculpture when there was very little wind. They underestimated the effects of mass, speed, and a non-smooth surface. )
It has mechanisms and mechanical ideas that you'd never have thought of to do all sorts of interesting movements - ideal for any dynamic sculptures etc.
And while you're looking for power sources, consider Stirling machines. Unlike steam, they don't use water so can't boil dry.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
I'd approach it this way. Ask yourself what applications require similar power transfers. The first two things that come to mind are riding lawn-mowers and agricultural food handling. A transmission off an old riding mower would give you a great start. Forward/reverse, and several ratios. Also don't rule out belt driven systems. They are cheap and easy to work with. Go to your local 'motor, pump, & power transmission' shop where you'll find an endless supply of axles (custom made & off the shelf), pillow-block bearings, and pulleys (but call them "shivs" or the guy behind the counter will know you're a noob)
-=-=-=-=- osjedi uses Debian GNU/Linux. -=-=-=-=-
http://www.wmberg.com/ McMaster is definitely good, but I've found that WM Berg has more to offer in the area of pulleys, belts and the like. They may not qualify as cheap, but they can also be used as a reference...
What you really want is a Berg breadboarding kit. This is the pro version of a Mecchano set. Expect to pay something in low four figures for a full kit, although you can buy parts separately.
The usual suppliers are Stock Drive Products, Small Parts, Inc., Berg, Boston Gear, and McMaster. The first two mostly stock miniature parts; the last two offer larger sized components. Incidentally, if you haven't worked with gears that carry significant loads, go to the Boston Gear site and work through their "Gearology" online course.
If you're going to do kinetic sculpture, go to MOMA in New York and see what from the 1960s is still running.
Many universities have "surplus" stores where all their old equipment goes to die. You usually can wander around at your leisure and often times even look inside things to see what you're getting. Especially old scientific equipment has large amounts of salvageable stuff in it, and if it's broken it's even cheaper. At the university surplus store here there are many artists who get their sculpture parts (though I don't know of any doing kinetic sculpture in particular).
Ditto on McMaster-Carr. They have hardware, gears, electrical goods, tools, etc., that your local Home Depot won't even think of stocking. Need weird materials like sheet brass, Bakelite tubing, solid nylon rods for machining?, they'll have it. I work in Los Angeles; here if you get your order in before you stop for your first cup of coffee, it'll frequently shop up that very same day. Heck, one time, just as I was about to click the Submit button on their web site, the UPS guy tapped me on my shoulder, order already in hand. It's spooky, I tell 'ya
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
emachineshop.com
And also bits of old garden machinery.
Just a quick note, casting metal is a gigantic pain. Low temp metals (pewter) are way too weak for machine parts, and high temp metals like brass require crazy equipment. Molds are only good for a single use and you still have to grind away all the flaws, assuming the pour went alright. Starting with like block aluminum and Machining the parts gets you a more consistent and precise result. (particularly if you have access to a CNC machine). If you have a prototype piece and you need lower strength perfect copies, molding in silicone and casting in polyurethane resin is glorious; Not difficult, perfectly detailed results, and a lot of fun if I do say so. If you use the right grade resin, (possibly doped with aluminum powder), it can get pretty sturdy. In the US, Smooth-on and Polytek are the two companies to look into to do that sort of thing (Smooth-on is more lay-person friendly, but in my experience polytek costs less for higher quality analogous products).
Good source for mechanical parts: http://www.sdp-si.com/
Gears, Belts, Couplings, Gearheads, Speed Reducers, Roller Chains, Brakes, Clutches, Flexible Shafts, Sleeves, Shafts, Universal Joints, Bearings, Motors & Gearmotors, Retaining Rings, Pins, Sprockets, Springs & Vibration Mounts
Unless you are recycling something, metal gears are really expensive. Plastic ones are generally extruded or formed rather than machines, so their price is less, but the capacity is less, too.
Pulleys and belts are relatively inexpensive, and can handle a lot more misalignment. There are cogged pulleys and belts, if you have timing applications.
As others have posted, http://www.McMaster.com is the key reference. Their prices range from competitive to outrageous, depending on the item. Their shipping always seems ridiculously inexpensive, unless it is a long item (6ft long threaded rod, for instance).
I generally get bearings and drill rod (good for shafts/axles) from http://www.use-enco.com when they go on sale.
A mini-lathe might be helpful to make collars and sleeves to get oddball parts to fit together. Look here for more info http://www.mini-lathe.com.
This company has amazing kits. You can build working machine tools if youre so inclined. Also hobbyengineering.com has some cool stuff thats much less spendy.
Support bacteria, the only culture most people have.
You could make your own gears using this gear template generator
http://woodgears.ca/gear_cutting/template.html
Consider me yet another rabid advocate of American Science & Surplus. I've been a big fan of theirs since they were called JerryCo back in the eighties. I, too say, if you can possibly get to the stores, then do. Also, don't be afraid to call if you don't see what you need. They may only have four of something and not have bothered to do a listing for it.
I don't know the words to say how kickass these guys are. Back in my prototyping days I moved to Milwaukee partially just to be able to get to their stores. They really are amazing.
It's all about the information. And what we do with it.
For big stuff: McMaster-Carr
For little stuff: Small Parts, Inc.
For custom stuff, use a local machine shop or emachineshop.
good luck.
It's amazing the range and quality of parts in a dead office copier. Same goes for heavy duty printers and even scanners. Belt drives, couplings, pillow blocks, and on and on and on. But watch out for the obvious. If you think disassembling a car was messy, wait until you're getting smeared with three kinds of lubricant and toner is getting into every nook and cranny of your body. Man, that stuff makes sand seem unintrusive. Keep a dozen rolls of paper towels on hand. Seriously.
It's all about the information. And what we do with it.
I know what a metal shop is. I am working under the (perhaps mistaken) notion that custom-made parts will cost a lot of money whereas some kind of prefabricated, standardized parts would adequately satisfy my need to transmit lower power to some lightweight components. The plastic gears I've found that come in a kit aren't quite up to the task. All the various car gears are overkill and come in a billion variants. Surely there is something prefabbed, cheap, and adequate for the task.
My dad does this, purely for artistic purposes. He finds his best stuff in dumpsters, dumpsites, and junkyards. I thought all starving artists knew where to find materials for nothing :)
I would like to put in an entirely self-promoting word for Big Blue Saw. 12 pitch (and possibly finer) gears come out just fine when waterjet cutting, and can be a lot cheaper than having custom gears made at a gear specialist. See my photos of an aluminum gear made for a fighting robot.
Your design to a real part online: Big Blue Saw
Your local TSC store has all sorts of belts, gears, pulleys, hydraulic cylinders, etc. Not sure where you are but they seem to be all over the USA.
Even most Ace hardware stores carry a good supply of pulleys and belts for all sorts of applications.
except their prices are higher, their quality generally lower, and they will not sell to the general public....
Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
I had run across that site before but had to dismiss it. As you can see it has little to offer in the way of specific gears. They're all plastic and they don't seem to have any relation to each other. I need something where I can get a bit more specific. I'll need to be able to gear things down by exact amounts, get bevel gears or worm gears, etc.
So you've not heard of such places as Bearing Suppliers, industrial hardware suppliers, etc.? Do they not have yellow pages where you are? Or the google?
Seriously, my local bearing shop can supply bearings, runners, castors, racks, pinions, gears, cogs, pulleys, belts, etc. from tiny precision bits to earthmover size.
There is no music - home taping killed it.
Yeah lol, that's not much at all... Most large capacity V8's wont make that much torque.
Take what ye can. Give nothing back!
They have a broad range of item types from gears to air hoses, but a bit narrower selection than say Berg or SDPSI. Plus they're past catalogs have featured some pretty wicked Rube Goldeberg contraptions. smallparts.com
You'ld probably need a pretty good idea of what you want exactly to go that route, though.
Traditionally the form of a kinetic sculpture is determined by the parts available, not the other way around. The challenge is to make something great given a whole lot of stuff that's not. Then again, most artists are poor and good scroungers.
Idea: find an old factory being decommissioned and start stripping machines. Pay slightly more than scrap if you need to.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Good suggestions. Mowers sound about right.
First of two, there is a neat range of stuff at
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/
Second of two, you can do nifty things with just steam and pistons, but I assume you'll be doing that anyway.. =p
A "grab bag" of gears doesn't make any commercial sense, not even for the hobbyist. If you want random junk parts, you may as well go to a junk yard and start dismantling vacuum cleaners and copy machines and such. I personally have a great supply of miscellaneous electromechanical parts like you describe specifically because I have dismantled junk equipment and scavenged reusable parts every time the opportunity has presented itself for 20 years.
Best thing I can think of would be some sort of robotics parts supplier who things they can provide generic gear boxes and power transfer kits, but I don't think you're going to be happy.
good luck...
I live in a ritzy town near boston, and the stuff that gets thrown out on trash day is unbelievable....
although not sure gears are high on the list
The army has some second hand warehouses
McMaster carr - as prev poster noted, they are fabulous; never out of stock and always next day - you don't need to worry about where you put that extra stuff: never order extra, let mcmaster be your stockroom
Universitys sometimes have good stuff; in the 90s MIT had a whole building full of vacumn tube oscilliscopes; I don't remember gears and motors but they were probably their
Garage auto repair shops - used starter motors, etc
Keep in mind I'm new to this. I'm no greasemonkey. I've been googling all afternoon and am only just getting acquainted with the possibilities.
A small engine repair shop is starting to sound like a great option. It's just a kinetic sculpture, not a mack truck.
Yellow pages sounds like a good idea -- as soon as I get a better idea of what I'm after. I'm finding it hard to believe there aren't kits or standard gear collections for this sort of thing.
When I was a kid (which was a long time ago, stop laughing) these were the companies I dealt with, at least these are still in business.
Edmund Scientifics:
http://scientificsonline.com/category.asp_Q_c_E_421187
Sciencekit:
http://sciencekit.com/plastic-gears/p/IG0030524/
Also check Radio Control models which uses these gears for their motors:
Tower Hobbies:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/listings/rcpsmfgs.html
I like Boston Gear -
http://www.bostongear.com/
User guides and other info as well.
A bit of a site plug but my site, BuySteampunk.com is a site that aggregates steampunk listings on eBay and separates them into categories. Lately, I've noticed a lot of gears grab bags popping up for all the steampunk crafters out there. The site updates every time you reload so I'd recommend checking back daily to see if there's any new loot.
Often times you can find an amazing assortment of spare parts for dirt cheap, certainly cheaper than these other places that people have linked. Sorry for the shameless promotion but it is actually incredibly relevant and useful for the question at hand.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
www.grainger.com
you can usually find in there what you can't get at McMaster-Carr (and there's a lot of overlap too).
Of course, there's always teh google - the top spoonsored link for "machine elements" is http://www.ganter-griff.com/ and it looks promising.
Small stuff you might try smallparts.com
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Discarded laser and ink jet printers and personal copiers have many of these components.
If you really want to go hardcore, what you should do is go to your local university that has a CNC milling machine, take an industrial/cad class, buy some stock and mill yourself some gears!
Yeah, it won't be off the shelf stuff... however it will be exactly what you need!
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
Pick your favorite auto parts store: napa, autozone, etc. They have tons of bearings and gears and what-not. And of course, the junkyard is a great place to visit.
In college I took some sculpture classes (I majored in Physics) and one of the sculptures I did was a half ton kinetic behemoth that rotated around 2 axis, driven by the wind. Pretty cool stuff.
A "grab bag" of gears doesn't make any commercial sense, not even for the hobbyist.
I can appreciate that. I'm leaning toward lawn mowers / motorcycles / small engines. Thanks for your post.
The metal recycling bins behind automatic transmission repair shops, if they allow you access, will supply you with some of the weirdest gear arrangements you'll ever see. Helical gears, planetary gears, square cut gears, you name it. The nice thing is that not only do you have full sets of gears, you often have more then one KIND of gear being used in conjunction with another type. There is also lots of valving, springs, clutches, bands and electronic whizmos inside a transmission.
The only disadvantage is that most will be of a fairly heavy-duty nature.
John
What kind of artist is this guy if he is not observant enough to take advantage of the many artifacts of modern life. If he's going to build something and cast metal, how in the world is he not creative enough to just enter a junkyard or two and start exploring for things that might contain the "gears" he needs. What an ass--to imply that you could get gears from different purposes and have them do anything of the sort of meshing that is required to have gears actually do anything. I know I'm ranting but I find it shocking that someone with enough impulse to be creative would then couple that desire with the absolute obliviousness to the myriad objects in his environment. It's like the questioner grew up in a wax factory.
Try here and here. I build custom automation for for a living. Find a waterjet company in your area and have them make your custom stuff. If you want to get really artistic or detailed you might have to buy your own machine shop equipment. However with the tanking economy, they can be had cheap.
We are all just people.
www.mcmaster.com
They have everything. Good prices. Axles and bearing are not so expensive.
Just any type of metal junkyard, not car-specific. The car-specific ones like to sell you car parts and price it up but there are junkyards (usually metal scrapyards that take in all types of metal in order to melt it after it has been taken apart) out there that sell everything from old fridges to huge compressors and in between you'll have all type of machinery that has gearboxes and other fun stuff. There are also the airplane junkyards that have all kinds of cool stuff in it. Next to that, I would start building prototypes with Lego Technics (if they still sell those) that have all types of axles, joints and gears. There was once a carset from Lego you could build that had a gearbox and 4-wheel drive.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Another option for smallish to mediumish gears would be cam gears, the cams themselves, some pulleys, and the like from overhead cam engines at a junkyard. Many makers, such as Toyota, have made nearly exclusively overhead cam engines for 20ish years, and most of those sort of things can be gotten at with little or no disassembly of anything complex. These would mostly be spur and helical.
Being a machinist, I'm telling you that the approach you just offered is a hell of alot of investment, time, and learning.
I've been a machinist for 5 years, I've worked on aerospace, medical, and defense parts. Even to this day, without a damned expensive hogging machine, it still takes alot of time and all my expertise to properly machine one gear. Keep in mind here that I'm in charge of Journeymen with decades of experience, who still come to me with questions. My employer bills my time at $65/hr, and it can take me 2 days to make a custom gear. Don't forget material or tooling, we charge you for that too.
You're better off having a GEAR shop (Note that they're often quite different from a machine shop) make your quarry, far cheaper and less hassle. Gear making can be done by a machinist, but our equipment isn't geared for it (pun intended). The fact that any given gear has 31 related characteristics to it that all have to be held to a notable tolerance makes things a royal pain in the ass.
Best thing to do is to get a Machinery Handbook (decent coin, but the best investment a tinkerer will EVER make), learn the different pitches and what not, and order the gears from there. Once you realize what it is you want to do with it, there are only three things you need to know. Teeth, Pitch, and Diameter. Pitch need to be the same, teeth and diameter dictate power transfer and at what rate. Check out McMaster Carr, or MSC. As a matter of fact, McMaster Carr has some educational material on their site, just search for "gears". Even for worm and pinions, once you know what you're going to do with them, you just have to make up your mind about size.
Of all the Universal Constants, here's one I know: Nice guys finish last
visit a lawyer and get one of the old units that collates as well and not realy a printer but zerography types ,I have seen some that have more gears and belts than carter had little liver pills(ought to keep any gearhead happy for days)
"I found the Stock Drive Products site and it looks like an extensive catalog, but one really needs to know what one is looking for and I don't think we're there yet."
There's your problem right there.
Want a source of axles, chain drive, gears, etc?
Raid busted Xerox machines, the large ones you find in offices. I've rebuilt my bike totally from Xerox machine parts.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Just pop on down to Spacely's sprockets. Or if you can wait till next week, Cogswell's Cogs has a 15% off sale...
Seriously though, you may want to check out www.emachineshop.com - they have a pretty interesting business model - download their cad program for free, design your widget, and then submit an order to have your thingamajig made out of anything from plastic to balsawood to steel.
lumenistan
----------------
my sig can beat up your sig
I was going to say "Stock Drive Products" (disclaimer - I know some of the Sr Management), "Boston Gear" is another. There is an on line place called "small parts" that isn't bad
Surplus - look for old photocopiers and or laser printers (copiers are much better) - strip them for parts - keep gear sets in, well, sets, until you leard to determine how to check if two gears properly mesh - gears come in different pressure angles and tooth sizes and the like
Shafts - learn about 1)Cold rolled steel - good to run through say a bearing, or use as an axle for a gear, but if you are going to run roller bearings on them and the like, look into what is called "Turned, ground and polished " (TPG) shafting - this is what you run your needle bearings in and the like
-- 73 de KG2V For the Children - RKBA! "You are what you do when it counts" - the Masso
I've made several kinetic sculptures using a mixture of bicycle and motorcycle parts. The best heavy duty gearing I found was in printing presses. Nice pillow blocks, shafts, gears of all flavors.
If you're near SF there's a place in the East Bay (Hayward?) called Alco that has a huge pile of machinery that they're not supposed to let you climb around in, but if you're nice...Bring tools.
Washing machines and dryers have nice belt drives. Washing machine motors are usually dual speed (slow/fast). The slow speed is helpful for sculpture, often. Lots of pumps too if you want to move liquids around.
Shaft-drive motorcycle parts are nice, though these can be expensive even when junked.
Good Luck!
Josh Merrow
http://jmerrowstudio.com
Check out your local FreeCycle group. All sorts of 'Good Stuff' there...
Unexpect the expected!
Second those two. They've got everything under the sun. I was going to recommend McMaster-Carr especially but I couldn't think of the name since it's been a while since I needed anything (at the time it was rubber bearings of a really specific size/shape). Plus, from what I can tell they're pretty cheap and they fill orders quickly.
Surpluscenter carries a lot of different types of bearings/couplings/gearsets...etc, at pretty cheap prices-- ship everywhere. I've done business with them-- good company http://www.surpluscenter.com/powerTrans.asp?UID=2008102308171619&catname=powerTrans
Seriously, go buy a small lathe and mill and make your own. Its not that hard and not that expensive if you are making small parts.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Hi. If you are near Dayton Ohio, there is a place called Mendelson's that will have what you need. Their website http://www.mendelsons.com/ is _not_ representative of what they have. They have a city-block-sized warehouse and the "store" is 2 full floors. that building is electronics, mechanicals, junk, etc. They also have another whole warehouse full of store fixtures too, in case your friend wants a mannequin head to cap off the structure.
If you go to Mendelson's, pack a sack lunch and wear comfy shoes. Let people know you are going, and that you may be gone for a few weeks.
In other parts of the country, there are a few more gems. Boeing has a surplus shop in Seattle that is awesome, an absolute junk-mecca. I got some really awesome linear bearings there a few years back. There is a not-affiliated-with-nasa-but-why-are-these-parts-all-mil-spec junk shop near Orlando, FL (Spaceship-supply?), but it is mainly electronics. It's the one with the UFO on the roof and the torpedoes hanging from the ceiling.
There are a lot of others, but those three are my "vacation" spots.
Online: Big Parts from MSC, McMaster, or Grainger. Small Parts from smallparts.com.
-ellie
Thanks for the info!
I guess I'm one of those people who do things for the sake of growing my brain. Yeah, the practical route would be to go to a gear shop and have a qualified person do it for me.
Though as a tinkerer, I've had more fun making mistakes and experimenting then I'd care to admit. Yeah, it might take me 10X as long to mill what I want, and yeah in the process I might waste a couple bucks worth of stock, but I'll walk away with a much better understanding of the underlying principles. That alone makes all the time spent worth it.
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
http://www.sdp-si.com/
http://www.york-ind.com/index.htm
Have used them for decades. http://bostongear.com/products/open/index.html
Four-bar linkages are what you want to look up if your linkage is simple. That's on Wikipedia. More complex than that and you'll need a text book. Info online is a mile wide and an inch deep.
Motorcycles and scooters have smaller engines, transmissions, and axles than most industrial robots and automobiles, since they only need to move a few hundred pounds of machine-and-rider. A lot of the parts are very lightweight too.
If you really don't give a damn about tolerances, you can always just make some clicker gears out of cardboard and JB weld or, if you have it, resin. They are actually way stronger than you'd think and easy to make, they just make a ton of noise and generally don't drive very precisely.
for what its worth , we once came across a 50s-60s era "copy machine" from and old abandoned office, I think they are called mimeograph's or something. They are huge, two machines filled a whole pickup bed and we had thousands of gears,bearings, solenoids ,bolts, and many more parts for years afterwords.
Maybe it's because I was watching Junkyard Wars reruns today, but think about what you can find with automotive junk parts. For about $1 per pound you can get worn out transmissions and rear wheel drive differentials. (ok, that's $50-$75 per unit.) Add another $10-$20 per bearing if very free motion is required, suffer with the existing bearings, or use soft metal bushing bearings (babbit, brass, copper, bronze, lead...)
With basic welding equipment such as a flux-core wire welder much can be done. With the 1-hp limit, or even 5-hp limit welding dis-similar steel alloys is of little concern. If you need a special gear you can weld using common steel and round bar making a round tooth gear. Not as smooth as an involute gear, but quite functional.
If you need to support a heavy load, get the front suspension spindles out of a car or truck. Disk brakes will allow for lots of space to weld on. Bearings are, again, relatively inexpensive if you need the freest movement.
If you need driven spindles use front-wheel drive parts or 4x4 parts, this way you can drive the center of the spindle.
If this is too beefy or expensive you can invest in a decent drill press, and a selection of large diameter drills and reamers to match a selection of small shaft axle bearings. You will need to check specs, but they will ride on common diameter round stock, say, 1/2 or 5/8 inch, and be fastened, shrink fit, or pressed into a hole about 1 1/4 or 2 inch. Again check your specs and purchase accordingly. The required drill/ream dimension are probably some funny decimal to get the required results.
So, recap:
Purchase a wire feed welder. flux-core welders start just over $100. Yes, 5%-10% duty cycle would piss me off too
Purchase and disassemble automotive drive trains.
Purchase some basic machine shop equipment and a carefully selected set of drills and reams.
You will probably NOT need a lathe or a milling machine, but if you can score them you will love them.
A good bandsaw and/or a cutting torch would also be welcome
Have fun
Phil
Laugh, it's good for you!
I've worked at a gear shop for the last 8 years doing mostly custom work and large production gears. The cost to do only a handful of gears is quite expensive. It really depends on what is needed to cut the gears you need. The cutting tools used can run well into the thousands of dollars depending on the job, so if its not something standard it going to cost quite a bit. Not to mention any set up time or any other required fixturing that will add to the price. After that initial cost then the per gear cost would be much lower but of course the company isn't going to eat that cost, you are. We've done jobs that were quite hard that required a lot of work but only had a few gears in them and they were literally thousands of dollars a piece. Then again we had 400K a year job that was a simple spur gear for .80 a piece.
So you much better off finding gears already made and not going the custom route. Like some of the others said I would much rather rip something apart myself and I'm the guy that sets up and programs gear hobbing/grinding/shaping/rolling machines.
As a former mechanical designer and mobile robotocist, I've bought components from Berg (http://www.wmberg.com/) for nearly two decades. A little pricey, but reliable and robust. I'd highly recommend looking at their stuff.