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New State of Matter Could Extend Moore's Law

rennerik writes "Scientists at McGill University in Montreal say they've discovered a new state of matter that could help extend Moore's Law and allow for the fabrication of more tightly packed transistors, or a new kind of transistor altogether. The researchers call the new state of matter 'a quasi-three-dimensional electron crystal.' It was discovered using a device cooled to a temperature about 100 times colder than intergalactic space, following the application of the most powerful continuous magnetic field on Earth."

53 of 329 comments (clear)

  1. Quasi three dimensional crystal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I believe the term you're looking for is Dilithium.

    1. Re:Quasi three dimensional crystal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      and if you need some extra CPU power just find the naval base in Alameda. It's where they keep the nuclear wessels.

    2. Re:Quasi three dimensional crystal? by Idiomatick · · Score: 3, Interesting

      On a nerd side note. We all know Dilithium in reality is a gas. But at the temperatures stated in the article. Would it be able to form a solid? Likely it would NOT be a crystal but it'd be fun to know.

  2. Hell Yeah! by SpiderClan · · Score: 5, Funny

    " It was discovered using a device cooled to a temperature about 100 times colder than intergalactic space, following the application of the most powerful continuous magnetic field on Earth."

    That's exactly what I want in my office.

    1. Re:Hell Yeah! by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 5, Funny

      You can borrow my wife if you want powerful attraction followed by extreme coldness.

    2. Re:Hell Yeah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I did borrow your wife last night... she wasn't that great.

    3. Re:Hell Yeah! by grub · · Score: 5, Funny


      It was discovered using a device cooled to a temperature about 100 times colder than intergalactic space

      Here in Winnipeg we could just put these units outside thus eliminating the need for cooling units. You can't get much more environmentally friendly than that!

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    4. Re:Hell Yeah! by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Funny

      C'mon guys, let's get off wives.

      ('Cause I just got off yours...)

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    5. Re:Hell Yeah! by Valacosa · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you did have it in your office, there's not much danger of it blowing up, but the vacuum pumps would be pretty loud.

      Intergalactic space is about 2 or 3 Kelvin. Getting down to 100 times colder than that - 20 or 30 millikelvin - requires a Helium 3 dilution fridge. Helium 3 is a rare (and expensive) helium isotope. Physics labs can afford this sort of equipment, but we're not going to be using the setup for gaming anytime soon.

      Not to mention, the vacuum pumps, the cold trap and the helium storage system would probably take up most of the space in your cubicle anyway.

      --
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    6. Re:Hell Yeah! by JustOK · · Score: 5, Funny

      they tried. the mosquitoes took them.

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    7. Re:Hell Yeah! by Forrest+Kyle · · Score: 4, Funny

      That's what she said.

    8. Re:Hell Yeah! by spun · · Score: 5, Funny

      I taught your girl that thing she does with her tongue.

      You're the one who taught her how to nag? You utter bastard.

      --
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    9. Re:Hell Yeah! by rennerik · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you did have it in your office, there's not much danger of it blowing up, but the vacuum pumps would be pretty loud. ...

      Not to mention, the vacuum pumps, the cold trap and the helium storage system would probably take up most of the space in your cubicle anyway.

      They're not talking about cooling your computer that way, but about creating the transistors that way. There's nothing in the article that says that they have to be continuously kept at that temperature.

      I'm pretty sure once it's done, it's done.

  3. Hm... by Andr+T. · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The researchers call the new state of matter 'a quasi-three-dimensional electron crystal.' It was discovered using a device cooled to a temperature about 100 times colder than intergalactic space, following the application of the most powerful continuous magnetic field on Earth.

    I don't know why, but I think this will take a while to get to my local PC store.

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  4. Oh no you didn't by yttrstein · · Score: 5, Informative

    Extend it? I trust you mean CONFIRM IT YET AGAIN!

    Thought so.

    1. Re:Oh no you didn't by geekoid · · Score: 4, Informative

      Neither, Moore's law doesn't apply to this..but that would of course require an understanding of Moore's law. The cost of putting more transistors has started going up, thus ending Moore's law.
      Unless a fab breakthrough happens. A big one.

      Could some other material come up to allow faster processors? you bet, but that wouldn't be Moore's law now, would it?

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    2. Re:Oh no you didn't by try_anything · · Score: 5, Funny

      And what, exactly, would that fab breakthrough look like?

      I suspect it would come in pink and look really super with a scarf!

  5. Re:And this helps Moore's Law how? by noidentity · · Score: 5, Funny

    Read carefully; they're cooling temperature itself! Not just cooler matter, but cooler temperature. This is a major breakthrough. Before you know it, they'll be able to achieve faster speeds, longer lengths, smaller sizes, and deeper depths.

  6. But... by sdsucks · · Score: 5, Funny

    How cold is that in libraries of congresses?

  7. One more time with feeling! by geekoid · · Score: 4, Funny

    None, because as we all know Librarians are HOT!

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  8. New transistor, that's nice. by Chris+Burke · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Now gimme mah memristors!

    --

    The enemies of Democracy are
  9. Moore's Law? by cavePrisoner · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wait, so somebody discovered a whole new state of matter, and all we have to say is it could extend Moore's Law? I would hope the implications would be just a tad bit more grand for such a discovery than possibly validating somebody's metric for a little while.

  10. Scenes from the lab by Repton · · Score: 5, Insightful

    [Scientist 1] A new state of matter! This is AWESOME!

    [Scientist 2] Yeah, but it's bloody expensive making the stuff. How can we bring in more funding?

    [Scientist 1] Umm ... Something to do with terrorism? Err ...

    [Scientist 2] ...energy crisis? Can we do anything with oil? ...

    [Scientist 1] ...what about computers? Could you make smaller transistors with this stuff?

    [Scientist 2] Yeah, it might fly. Let's run with that.

    --
    Repton.
    They say that only an experienced wizard can do the tengu shuffle.
  11. Not a new state of matter at all by brunes69 · · Score: 5, Informative

    From comments in TFA:

    The researcher, Dr. Guillaume Gervais, is director of McGill University's Ultra-Low Temperature Condensed Matter Experiment Lab. There's nothing in the journal letter about "a new state of matter". The McGill Newsroom article quotes him as saying to the interviewer, "It's actually not quite 3-D, it's an in-between state, a totally new phenomenon" as compared with the 2-D electron crystals that transistors and IC chips are made of. The interviewer, or an editor, thought "Physics -- state -- new state of matter". Engadget's Melanson picked up the error and passed it on uncritically.

  12. Re:100x colder than space? by pushing-robot · · Score: 4, Funny

    Obviously you've never been to Montreal.

    --
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  13. Re:Colder than Space? by againjj · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum
    Intersteller space has a density of a million atoms per cubic meter. Intergalactic space has densities closer to one atom per cubic meter. Perfect vacuum is theoretically impossible due to quantum mechanics (I can not explain why, but that makes sense).

  14. Another Ice-nine dupe by xactuary · · Score: 3, Funny

    We Bokononists prefer to call it Ice-nine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokononism

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  15. Re:100x colder than space? by xTantrum · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The laws of Thermodynamics state that we can't really achieve absolute zero As far as the far reaches of space goes they may be referring to the boomerang nebula which is the coldest place we know of so far - outside of the laboratory. I wish the article had been more specific and quantitative. FYI a really good program to watch if you get a chance is Absolute Zero

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  16. Re:100 times colder than what? by againjj · · Score: 5, Informative

    TFA doesn't state any specific temperature, but I find the analogy to how "cold" space is rather troubling. Space is really "warm", as it contains energy left from the Big Bang (although no one with a common sense would describe it that way in daily talk), and saying that something is so many times colder than space really just doesn't make sense. You can always compare sizes, but as heat is a positive size, because you can't have negative energy, you can just say "this is a hundred times hotter than that" or "my freezer is two times as cold as my refrigerator compared to my living room". The one who thought of this analogy could be talking about degrees on Celsius or Fahrenheit, but then those numbers must be way below absolute zero, or 0 Kelvin, as space is just 2.7 Kelvin, or -270.7 C ( http://helios.gsfc.nasa.gov/qa_sp_ht.html ) and taking for granted he is comparing the temperature of space to 0 ÂC, that means that those crystals are actually -27070 C. And _that_ would be some real frontpage material...

    You seem confused. He speaks of "a temperature about 100 times colder than intergalactic space". Intergalactic space has a temperature of about 3K. It does not make sense to talk of degrees C, since C is not an absolute scale. 100 times colder than 3K is 0.03K.

  17. Moore's Law isn't just about silicon any more by mschuyler · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Since there are already numerous posts invoking the applicability (or not) of Moore's Law, I thought I would start over. Although Gordon Moore certainly formulated his law based on silicon (original is here: http://www.intel.com/technology/mooreslaw/.) it can be applied clear back to 1890 with the Hollerith 'computer' that tabulated the 1890 census. When you graph it out, Moore's Law applies to electro-mechanical switches, then to relays, then to vacuum tubes, then transistors themselves (like in a six transistor radio of the 50's), then on to silicon. It's still the same exponential curve, in five separate states, only the last one of which is silicon. Kurzweil discusses this in depth here: http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0134.html?printable=1. People who claim Moore's Law doesn't apply because this isn't traditional silicon acreage are missing the point, which is that not only is Moore's Law more encompassing than the originally envisioned, it is not going away any time soon. The imminent death of Moore's Law, as always, has been greatly exaggerated.

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  18. Re:100 times colder than what? by Markspark · · Score: 3, Insightful

    but it still works quite well, since 1C == 1K

    and i really cringed when i read the 100 times colder crap. Seriously, if it's at 0.03 K why not just say that?

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  19. Radiant temperature. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 3, Informative

    You don't need matter to have a temperature. Even in a "perfect" vacuum (i.e. nothing but quantum fluctuation transient particle-antiparticle pairs) there is still radiant energy in the form of photons - and their wavelength distribution corresponds to a temperature.

    It's the temperature at which a black-body test object, bathed continuously in photons of that frequency distribution, would neither warm up nor cool down further.

    The radiant temperature of the sky far from the influence of nearby galaxies is known as the "cosmic background temperature". It's about 4 degrees absolute - corresponding to the light from the big bang red-shifted down a LOT by cosmic expansion.

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  20. Re:Could you be any more vague? by againjj · · Score: 3, Informative

    According to wikipedia, intergalactic space is 2.71 Kelvin. I would assume that they mean "100th the temperature of intergalactic space", not "100 times colder than intergalactic space", as the latter is nonsensical and implies that it exists at 100 times colder than intergalactic space is colder than room temperature, meaning -28834 Kelvin (293 - 100 * (293 - 2.73) where we assume that room temperature is 20 degrees centigrade). This is nonsense.

    I don't see a problem with "100 times colder than intergalactic space". Temperature is an absolute scale, like size. It's like saying that item X is "100 times smaller than a coin". You don't then compare the size of the coin (say, 0.01m) to the room (say 3m) and then complain that item X is not of size -296 (3 - 100 * (3 - 0.01)).

  21. Re:100 times colder than what? by againjj · · Score: 4, Informative

    but it still works quite well, since 1C == 1K

    and i really cringed when i read the 100 times colder crap. Seriously, if it's at 0.03 K why not just say that?

    It does not work well. 100x colder than 1 C is not 0.01 C, it is -270.27 C. And the reason people don't say 0.03 K is because the average person does not know what K is, but they know space is very cold.

  22. Re:Could you be any more vague? by Deadstick · · Score: 3, Funny
    Do any of us have any idea how tall the Statue of Liberty actually is?

    Sure...13.95 stories.

    rj

  23. Re:It came from... by James_Duncan8181 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Lucky, outer space certainly seems like the only place to cheaply get that amount of cooling.

    --
    "To any truly impartial person, it would be obvious that I am right."
  24. Re:Is that really cold? by CorporateSuit · · Score: 4, Funny

    4.73 Kelvin

    Pffft barely jacket weather.

    Tell me when it's below 3.8 Kelvin. THEN I might be impressed.

    --
    I am the richest astronaut ever to win the superbowl.
  25. Dumbing Down by daveime · · Score: 3, Funny

    You know, we *can* understand Kelvin ... or can we expect the next comparison as "1000 times colder than a polar bear's left testicle".

  26. Re:Colder than Space? by glitch23 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Perfect vacuum is theoretically impossible due to quantum mechanics (I can not explain why, but that makes sense).

    For any given particle, you can't know its exact position and velocity. Particles can never reach absolute zero because then you would be able to determine their position since you know their velocity would thus be zero given they have no energy by definition of absolute zero. An extension of that then is if you know a particle's velocity you will never be able to determine its position. If you can't determine its position you can't determine whether it is really outside a vacuum. You may be able to say it isn't in the middle of the volume which represents the vaccum but at the boundary you can't say for sure whether the particle is on the inside of the vacuum or outside. This is Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. An absolute zero temperature vacuum is definitely impossible due to the uncertainty principle.

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  27. Re:100 times colder than what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And the reason people don't say 0.03 K is because the average person does not know what K is [...]

    Well then let them become curious and not so average.

  28. Re:Could you be any more vague? by AstrumPreliator · · Score: 3, Informative

    So when someone says "X is 100 times larger than Y" you instinctively think "X=100*Y", yet when someone says "X is 100 times smaller than Y" you instinctively think "X=Z-100*(Z-Y)" for some arbitrary Z of same unit as Y. Forgive me for not following your erm... logic.

    Let's say I have a temperature which is 100 times larger than 27.1 mK, this would be 2.71 K. Indeed 27.1 mK is smaller than 2.71 K and 2.71 K is larger than 27.1 mK. So saying 100 times smaller than 2.71 K should indicate I mean 27.1 mK. In no way is this nonsensical and I'm pretty sure everyone here understands that "X is N times smaller than Y" means multiply Y by the reciprocal of N, similarly "X is N times larger than Y" means multiply Y by N.

    Granted this isn't something you'd see in technical writing, but I'm pretty sure Information Week isn't a technical journal, so why be a pedant about it?

  29. Re:And this helps Moore's Law how? by TrailerTrash · · Score: 3, Funny

    achieve faster speeds, longer lengths, smaller sizes, and deeper depths.

    That's what she said.

  30. intergalactic space at 3 K? by Nick12534 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Intergalactic space is not at 2.7 K. Especially in galaxy clusters, the temperature of the intergalactic medium is often millions of degrees Kelvin. Even in more remote places far from galaxy clusters, it's still much warmer than 2.7 K. The 2.7 K figure is the temperature associated with the cosmic microwave background radiation, not the intergalactic medium.

  31. Re:It came from... by Kagura · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... a device cooled to a temperature about 100 times colder than intergalactic space, following the application of the most powerful continuous magnetic field on Earth."

    Hmmm... this is definitely going to extend Moore's Law in home computing... sure. ;)

  32. Re:It came from... by Moryath · · Score: 3, Funny

    Moore's law... hell this is going to extend the calculation of the user's home heating/cooling costs past what will fit on a single page.

    On the upside, calculating that kind of cost may lead to the finding of a new prime number or two.

  33. Re:100 times colder than what? by seanadams.com · · Score: 4, Informative

    Was this moderated Insightful out of irony (I do that all the time when I have the points) or did I miss the joke?

    Please do not mod this ironically, because I'm already confused. Thanks.

  34. Re:Colder than Space? by Atario · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That took me by surprise. I was sure it was going to be because of the vast number of virtual particles constantly appearing and disappearing within the vacuum.

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  35. Re:100 times colder than what? by Mattsson · · Score: 3, Insightful

    One of the reasons the average person does not know what K is, is because they're never expected to know it.

    If everyone stopped using Celsius or Fahrenheit in situations where Kelvin would better suited, people would have to actually remember the Kelvin-scale from school-physics or take a minute out of their lives to find out what the Kelvin-scale is.

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  36. Re:100 times colder than what? by SharpFang · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Q: What is the difference between an orange?
    A: A banana.

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  37. Re:No, it won't by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Informative

    No, Moore's law states that the number of transistors you can put on an integrated circuit for a fixed cost doubles every 18 months. This has nothing to do with the speed at which the transistors run or the material they are made from.

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  38. Re:And this helps Moore's Law how? by Alsee · · Score: 3, Funny

    Well, the faster speeds and smaller sizes part anyway.

    -

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  39. Re:It came from... by durnurd · · Score: 3, Informative

    Just to make sure everybody knows: The necessary magnetic field and temperature applications are required only during the creation of the crystals.

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