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New State of Matter Could Extend Moore's Law
rennerik writes "Scientists at McGill University in Montreal say they've discovered a new state of matter that could help extend Moore's Law and allow for the fabrication of more tightly packed transistors, or a new kind of transistor altogether. The researchers call the new state of matter 'a quasi-three-dimensional electron crystal.' It was discovered using a device cooled to a temperature about 100 times colder than intergalactic space, following the application of the most powerful continuous magnetic field on Earth."
I believe the term you're looking for is Dilithium.
" It was discovered using a device cooled to a temperature about 100 times colder than intergalactic space, following the application of the most powerful continuous magnetic field on Earth."
That's exactly what I want in my office.
The researchers call the new state of matter 'a quasi-three-dimensional electron crystal.' It was discovered using a device cooled to a temperature about 100 times colder than intergalactic space, following the application of the most powerful continuous magnetic field on Earth.
I don't know why, but I think this will take a while to get to my local PC store.
Any life is made up of a single moment, the moment in which a man finds out, once and for all, who he is.
Extend it? I trust you mean CONFIRM IT YET AGAIN!
Thought so.
Read carefully; they're cooling temperature itself! Not just cooler matter, but cooler temperature. This is a major breakthrough. Before you know it, they'll be able to achieve faster speeds, longer lengths, smaller sizes, and deeper depths.
Moore's law is about manufacturing on silicon
If it isn't silicon, then it isn't Moore's law.
remember kids, increasing processor speed is a by product of Moore's law/ Moore's law is about cost of manufacturing.
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I believe there's still minute amounts of matter floating in the ether.
Show this to your friends and family that don't know what a real hacker is
How cold is that in libraries of congresses?
... "...It was discovered using a device cooled to a temperature about 100 times colder than intergalactic space, following the application of the most powerful continuous magnetic field on Earth."
What does this mean? Give us a temperature. At least that would be concrete.
According to wikipedia, intergalactic space is 2.71 Kelvin. I would assume that they mean "100th the temperature of intergalactic space", not "100 times colder than intergalactic space", as the latter is nonsensical and implies that it exists at 100 times colder than intergalactic space is colder than room temperature, meaning -28834 Kelvin (293 - 100 * (293 - 2.73) where we assume that room temperature is 20 degrees centigrade). This is nonsense.
So, my PC is going to be running at 0.0273 Kelvin. Well, that's convenient! I love my room when it's that cold!
The cosmic microwave background is the electromagnetic energy radiated by the distant reaches of the universe. It corresponds to energy radiated by a roughly 2.7 degrees Kelvin blackbody. That is the temperature of space since under normal conditions nothing can get colder than that temperature.
Nope, the background microwave radiation prevents an object in even the deepest portions of space from dropping below around 3 Kelvin.
None, because as we all know Librarians are HOT!
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was discovered using a device cooled to a temperature about 100 times colder than intergalactic space
My ex-girlfriend?
I am the richest astronaut ever to win the superbowl.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081021185213.htm
Space isn't a complete vacuum. There is still movement and the occasional molecule, but for all practical purposes, it "is" a vacuum. There is still a temperature though.
Yes. Give me the location of John Conner.
Defective Logic
To get colder than Absolut, drink more than the body can handle, the you'll Absolutly shut down..., hehehe
As for the 3D Crystal Ball, that's a better take on Mr. Peabody's 3DBB (3-Dimensional Black Board) Sherman always marveled at. But, these scientists are pretty good, taking on the Matter by the Horn...
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Space has no temperature, microwave radiation does.
I can find places in space that are millions of degrees, that doesn't mean space is hot.
Add to that that as the Universe expands, the 'background heat' get's lower.
Energy throughout the universe is constant*, but the volume is increasing.
*or at least among all the universe in the probable dimensions.
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Why? They didn't write it carefully~
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Oh Crap. They are on to us.
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Wait, so somebody discovered a whole new state of matter, and all we have to say is it could extend Moore's Law? I would hope the implications would be just a tad bit more grand for such a discovery than possibly validating somebody's metric for a little while.
100 times colder than 0 K? So, that's what, 0 K? Why not make it 1000 times colder?
(Yes I know space is slightly warmer than absolute zero, but it's still a really weird claim to make - we are only talking about a couple of degrees here)
Also, am I the only one who, upon hearing "discovered a new state of matter", doesn't immediately think "Sweet, we can extends Moore's Law!", but rather "Holy shit, a new state of matter?" Seems like a pretty big discovering on its own, even without being tied to chip manufacturing...
sic transit gloria mundi
[Scientist 1] A new state of matter! This is AWESOME!
[Scientist 2] Yeah, but it's bloody expensive making the stuff. How can we bring in more funding?
[Scientist 1] Umm ... Something to do with terrorism? Err ...
[Scientist 2] ...energy crisis? Can we do anything with oil? ...
[Scientist 1] ...what about computers? Could you make smaller transistors with this stuff?
[Scientist 2] Yeah, it might fly. Let's run with that.
Repton.
They say that only an experienced wizard can do the tengu shuffle.
Yes. A few degrees above absolute zero. Which means taht "100 times colder" is, of course, physically impossible, or meaningless.
This is what happens when your science reporter flunked high school science.
100 times colder than intergalactic space
Does space even have a temperature?
Well, if I remember correctly from winters in elementary school:
Space's temperature, according to my 1st grade teacher, is "Really cold"...
If I remember correctly from winters in elementary school:
"Super Cold" is about 2 times colder than "Really Cold"
"F*cking cold" is about 10 times colder than "Really Cold"
"FREEZING" is about 5 times colder than "Cold"
So 100 times colder than intergalactice space would be "Super F*cking FREEZING!" (said while shivering for effect)
I am the richest astronaut ever to win the superbowl.
From comments in TFA:
The researcher, Dr. Guillaume Gervais, is director of McGill University's Ultra-Low Temperature Condensed Matter Experiment Lab. There's nothing in the journal letter about "a new state of matter". The McGill Newsroom article quotes him as saying to the interviewer, "It's actually not quite 3-D, it's an in-between state, a totally new phenomenon" as compared with the 2-D electron crystals that transistors and IC chips are made of. The interviewer, or an editor, thought "Physics -- state -- new state of matter". Engadget's Melanson picked up the error and passed it on uncritically.
Obviously you've never been to Montreal.
How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum
Intersteller space has a density of a million atoms per cubic meter. Intergalactic space has densities closer to one atom per cubic meter. Perfect vacuum is theoretically impossible due to quantum mechanics (I can not explain why, but that makes sense).
Just be thankful we have SSDs now - I'm not sure HDs would be compatible with such a system!
Dr. Guillaume Gervais, director of McGill's Ultra-Low Temperature Condensed Matter Experiment Lab, describes them in terms of a ham sandwich, where the ham -- the two-dimensional crystal -- represents a flat plane that constrains the movement of the electrons in two dimensions.
Mmmmmm, ham sandwich. Now, off to topology for donuts! Mmmmmmm, donuts.
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Why would we want to extend Moore's law? I mean, why merely double the number of transistors every 18 months (or however it goes)? Why not increase the number of transistors by a factor of five, or ten in a single year? It seems stupid to me to limit yourself.
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The 3DBB was used by Phineas J. Whoopee, when he was educating Tennessee Tuxedo and his walrus pal, Chumley.
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I used to watch these, as well as "The World of Commander McBragg", and the ever-popular Underdog. "The secret compartment of my ring I fill with an Underdog super-vitamin energy pill." The people involved in the supposed live-action remake of Underdog should all be lowered into wood chippers feet first... and slowly.
wants to be the first monkey to touch the monolith
The laws of Thermodynamics state that we can't really achieve absolute zero As far as the far reaches of space goes they may be referring to the boomerang nebula which is the coldest place we know of so far - outside of the laboratory. I wish the article had been more specific and quantitative. FYI a really good program to watch if you get a chance is Absolute Zero
$action = empty(PHP) ? backToC() : unset(PHP) ; "when the concrete cases are understood, the abstractions are readily
Yes. A few degrees above absolute zero. Which means taht "100 times colder" is, of course, physically impossible, or meaningless.
This is what happens when your science reporter flunked high school science.
The phrase "100 times colder" is commonly understood to mean at a temperature 1/100 of that being compared. Average temperature of outer space is 3 K, so, "100 times colder" would be .03 K. So, the phrasing is perfectly acceptable.
my pet machine
TFA doesn't state any specific temperature, but I find the analogy to how "cold" space is rather troubling. Space is really "warm", as it contains energy left from the Big Bang (although no one with a common sense would describe it that way in daily talk), and saying that something is so many times colder than space really just doesn't make sense. You can always compare sizes, but as heat is a positive size, because you can't have negative energy, you can just say "this is a hundred times hotter than that" or "my freezer is two times as cold as my refrigerator compared to my living room". The one who thought of this analogy could be talking about degrees on Celsius or Fahrenheit, but then those numbers must be way below absolute zero, or 0 Kelvin, as space is just 2.7 Kelvin, or -270.7 C ( http://helios.gsfc.nasa.gov/qa_sp_ht.html ) and taking for granted he is comparing the temperature of space to 0 ÂC, that means that those crystals are actually -27070 C. And _that_ would be some real frontpage material...
You seem confused. He speaks of "a temperature about 100 times colder than intergalactic space". Intergalactic space has a temperature of about 3K. It does not make sense to talk of degrees C, since C is not an absolute scale. 100 times colder than 3K is 0.03K.
The way temperature is defined: yes.
Stick a thermometer in it. Read the number off. Now, granted, this is mostly due to rad exchange, but it still satisfies the thermodynamic definition.*
*if you've got a perfectly gray thermometer.
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I might be wrong but isn't the temperature of space absolut zero. How can you get colder than absolut zero? Can someone with knowledge of the subject matter be so kind to explain?
Joke answer: absolute zero divided by one hundred still equals absolute zero.
More serious answer: The temperature is actually around 3 Kelvin, so I guess they got the temperature down to about 0.03K.
I looked it up because it caught my eye.
So they fill a paper cup, then dump it into you travel mug(yeah you) then toss the cup?
Hmm. I understand why they can't use your mug for the creation of the drink, but I wonder why they just don't use a ceramic cup for the preparation.
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100 times as cold as.
Since there are already numerous posts invoking the applicability (or not) of Moore's Law, I thought I would start over. Although Gordon Moore certainly formulated his law based on silicon (original is here: http://www.intel.com/technology/mooreslaw/.) it can be applied clear back to 1890 with the Hollerith 'computer' that tabulated the 1890 census. When you graph it out, Moore's Law applies to electro-mechanical switches, then to relays, then to vacuum tubes, then transistors themselves (like in a six transistor radio of the 50's), then on to silicon. It's still the same exponential curve, in five separate states, only the last one of which is silicon. Kurzweil discusses this in depth here: http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0134.html?printable=1. People who claim Moore's Law doesn't apply because this isn't traditional silicon acreage are missing the point, which is that not only is Moore's Law more encompassing than the originally envisioned, it is not going away any time soon. The imminent death of Moore's Law, as always, has been greatly exaggerated.
How about a moderation of -1 pedantic.
but it still works quite well, since 1C == 1K
and i really cringed when i read the 100 times colder crap. Seriously, if it's at 0.03 K why not just say that?
i find your lack of faith in science disturbing!
You don't need matter to have a temperature. Even in a "perfect" vacuum (i.e. nothing but quantum fluctuation transient particle-antiparticle pairs) there is still radiant energy in the form of photons - and their wavelength distribution corresponds to a temperature.
It's the temperature at which a black-body test object, bathed continuously in photons of that frequency distribution, would neither warm up nor cool down further.
The radiant temperature of the sky far from the influence of nearby galaxies is known as the "cosmic background temperature". It's about 4 degrees absolute - corresponding to the light from the big bang red-shifted down a LOT by cosmic expansion.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Actually I would assume that they mean 1/100 the temperature of space, on an absolute zero based scale.
If it doesn't go onto a desktop chip, I am not sure Moore's law is being extended by this theoretical application.
They do mean 100 times colder! By being below absolute zero, distances and therefore time becomes negative. With sufficient negativity, they can produce a Pentium that'll give you the wrong answer before you provide it with the data!
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
and i really cringed when i read the 100 times colder crap. Seriously, if it's at 0.03 K why not just say that?
Because 100 times colder sounds much more dramatic than 2.97 degress less.
but it still works quite well, since 1C == 1K
and i really cringed when i read the 100 times colder crap. Seriously, if it's at 0.03 K why not just say that?
It does not work well. 100x colder than 1 C is not 0.01 C, it is -270.27 C. And the reason people don't say 0.03 K is because the average person does not know what K is, but they know space is very cold.
TFA doesn't state any specific temperature, but I find the analogy to how "cold" space is rather troubling.
I wonder how many times colder it is than the Library of Congress. It's always important to have a "Library of Congress" metric in these articles.
delta 1degC == delta 1degK 1degC == 274.15degK As for 100 times colder, it sounds better than a change of 2.97degK.
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Most accurately, one should say "one hundredth as warm as intergalactic space."
This is what happens when your science reporter flunked high school science.
The unfortunate truth about a disturbingly large fraction of journalists is that they're the ones that couldn't hack math, science, or any other logical discipline, but thought they'd like writing. Unfortunately, they found they weren't very good at writing anything creatively because they didn't like to read literature. Eventually they gravitated towards journalism because the basics of journalism are simple and logical, more like basic bookkeeping, only without numbers. Interestingly, the journalism majors of this stripe I met in college seemed to be the most likely to say "I'm becoming a journalist because I want to change the world". I suspect this is because real journalists realize that by reporting factuality, the world may change itself, while writing things intentionally crafted to sway opinion is actually propaganda, not journalism.
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
that there was a different state of matter at absolute zero. At least I was under the impression we did.
"Approximately 100 times colder than intergalactic space"
Call me a troll if you must, but this is 'news for nerds'. Why not just give us the temperature in Kelvin?
Is it called Dilithium Crystals? ;)
Can it focus an antimatter explosion through it to power a "warp drive"? :)
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Lucky, outer space certainly seems like the only place to cheaply get that amount of cooling.
"To any truly impartial person, it would be obvious that I am right."
How about New Zoo Review:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zoo_Revue
? hehehe... we're aging ourselves...
hehehe
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
I thought temperature was a measure of the average speed at which molecules were jostling around?
So wouldn't a thermometer be the wrong tool for the job when you're in space, even if it would register something?
Your comment is sounding strangely like something from my spam box ... I don't suppose all of these achievements will cost me $1?
4.73 Kelvin
Pffft barely jacket weather.
Tell me when it's below 3.8 Kelvin. THEN I might be impressed.
I am the richest astronaut ever to win the superbowl.
You know, we *can* understand Kelvin ... or can we expect the next comparison as "1000 times colder than a polar bear's left testicle".
Well, it depends on what kind of thermometer you're using. Sure, a normal mercury or alcohol thermometer wouldn't work in outer space, but there are definitely devices that can measure very very low temperatures, and in some sense you can consider anything that measures temperature a "thermometer".
Perfect vacuum is theoretically impossible due to quantum mechanics (I can not explain why, but that makes sense).
For any given particle, you can't know its exact position and velocity. Particles can never reach absolute zero because then you would be able to determine their position since you know their velocity would thus be zero given they have no energy by definition of absolute zero. An extension of that then is if you know a particle's velocity you will never be able to determine its position. If you can't determine its position you can't determine whether it is really outside a vacuum. You may be able to say it isn't in the middle of the volume which represents the vaccum but at the boundary you can't say for sure whether the particle is on the inside of the vacuum or outside. This is Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. An absolute zero temperature vacuum is definitely impossible due to the uncertainty principle.
this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
Perfect vacuum is theoretically impossible
The relevant law of Nature is: "Nature abhors a vacuum."
And since it is Mother Nature, the relevant reason behind this law is the old Mother's law: "Because I said so".
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
They also know that in space no-one can hear you scream. Which is why I am glad he didn't tell me how much colder it is than a Library of Congress.
I'm also a little worried if the string theorists get hold of this. I mean if they can extend moore's law by adding another dimension; quasi or otherwise, we will definitely run out of IP addresses before they hit the 11th!
there, how's that for some sequiturial journalistic embellishment?
And the reason people don't say 0.03 K is because the average person does not know what K is [...]
Well then let them become curious and not so average.
Can anyone explain exactly why this is considered as a potential "solution" to extending Moore's Law? I'm not clear on how this discovery - interesting as it is - related to Moore's Law.
Absolut Zero you say? Mmmmmm, Absolut Zero...
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
Joe Sixpack asks, "Would that temperature keep by brewskis cold, or would it freeze them? Because that's a drag when they explode, and I have to call Joe Plumber to fix the freezer (after I clean off the venison steaks left over from last season), and he's crabby about taxes or some such nonsense. Pass me another cold one."
achieve faster speeds, longer lengths, smaller sizes, and deeper depths.
That's what she said.
Intergalactic space is not at 2.7 K. Especially in galaxy clusters, the temperature of the intergalactic medium is often millions of degrees Kelvin. Even in more remote places far from galaxy clusters, it's still much warmer than 2.7 K. The 2.7 K figure is the temperature associated with the cosmic microwave background radiation, not the intergalactic medium.
There are also particles (or rather, particle / anti-particle pairs) popping into and out of existence all the time. In fact, this is often invoked as the source of Hawking radiation.
--Joe
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"We decided to tweak the two-dimensionality by applying a very large magnetic field, using the largest magnet in the world at the Magnet Lab in Florida," he said. "You only have access to it for about five days a year, and on the third day, something totally unexpected popped."
Gervais's "pop" was the startling transformation of a two-dimensional electron system inside the semiconducting material into a quasi-three-dimensional system, something existing theory did not predict.
"It's actually not quite 3-D, it's an in-between state, a totally new phenomenon," he said. "This is the kind of thing the theoreticians love. Now they're scratching their heads and trying to fine-tune their models."
They should write a new book: "Dimension-hacking for fun and profit."
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... a device cooled to a temperature about 100 times colder than intergalactic space, following the application of the most powerful continuous magnetic field on Earth."
Hmmm... this is definitely going to extend Moore's Law in home computing... sure. ;)
The sub prime state... You can pay for it and sell it but when you look at it hard enough it's not really there...
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Helium makes your voice sound funny if you breathe it in.
Moore's law... hell this is going to extend the calculation of the user's home heating/cooling costs past what will fit on a single page.
On the upside, calculating that kind of cost may lead to the finding of a new prime number or two.
Was this moderated Insightful out of irony (I do that all the time when I have the points) or did I miss the joke?
Please do not mod this ironically, because I'm already confused. Thanks.
An absolute zero temperature vacuum is definitely impossible due to the uncertainty principle.
Well yeah, if you had a brain fart and forgot to turn on the Heisenberg compensators.
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That sounds more like it is possible. Only you can't notice it before, during or after the event, since its uncertain at any given moment and all.
Its called the "Taylors Unnoticibility Principle". I need to go make a Wikipedia page to make it official, so you can quote it in the future.
I think you underestimate just how much I just dont care.
I'll bet extra-galactic space (beyond the furthest galaxies, beyond the fastest moving elements from the big bang) is colder, possibly even a vacuum if you go far out enough. (Actually, I was just there the other day, it was nice because there was no pet hair or dust bunnies.) Isn't it kind of mind-blowing that according to big bang theory everything is contained within nothing?
*** once i really listened, the noise just went away. -liz phair
Space is very cold, but screaming for ice cream is useless.
Not a sentence!
That took me by surprise. I was sure it was going to be because of the vast number of virtual particles constantly appearing and disappearing within the vacuum.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
> following the application of the most powerful continuous magnetic field on Earth.
Isn't the Earth itself the most powerful continuous magnetic field on Earth?
If it were actually talking about the magnet itself, then it could be argued that the Earth's magnet is it's core, which isn't *on* Earth but *in* Earth ... but they said 'magnetic field', so I think they're wrong.
Max.
I've always disliked when someone states that "X is one hundred times less than Y".
It should be "X is 0.01 times Y", "X is one hundredth of Y" or "X is Y divided by one hundred".
Much simpler, sounds better and avoids any possible confusion.
If the article had stated "A temperature about 0.01 times the temperature of intergalactic space", it would have avoided this misconception.
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It does not work well. 100x colder than 1 C is not 0.01 C, it is -270.27 C. And the reason people don't say 0.03 K is because the average person does not know what K is, but they know space is very cold.
Agree, but this is a science article. It is obviously going to be read by quite a few technically minded people. So it doesn't hurt to give a clear value as well as a clarifier for the masses.
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One of the reasons the average person does not know what K is, is because they're never expected to know it.
If everyone stopped using Celsius or Fahrenheit in situations where Kelvin would better suited, people would have to actually remember the Kelvin-scale from school-physics or take a minute out of their lives to find out what the Kelvin-scale is.
/.Mattsson - My native language is not English, so please don't whine over linguistic errors. (That's lame anyway...)
Anyone who does not know what K is won't read the article.
The article is verry misleading, its only about an new discovered (quantum) stateof matter.
Altough that in itself is big news for those who study the matter the world is made of.
It doesnt mean that every discovery in this field lead to better chips.
It's actualy quite unlikely that we would get such chips under search weird environment conditions running.
So it might be usefull for our understanding of matter, and that might be of some help.
Otherwise we could also say it possibly cures cancer and Hiv, and maybe our next energy source.
What i'm saying is the news is scientific but the reporting was verry un-scientific.
For those reporters better just stay with the fact, your not a fund raiser !!
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Now is when I want mod points. I laughed out loud. I did not LOL. or ROFL.
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Let's just say it's about 2.7 degrees K colder than intergalactic space. It's less dramatic, but more to the point.
Call me dense, but... don't you mean we simply cannot detect a perfect vacuum, rather than saying it's impossible?
When I first heard about the double slit experiment, I was very confused because the article I read kept using the word "observing". It took me a while to realize that what they meant was that the act of measuring, in an attempt to observe, influences the experiment. So, whether observation disturbs the experiment depends on the method of observation. To a normal person, the term observation isn't seen as a method of interference.
So the average person does not know what Kelvin is, but he knows Moore's law? I'm confused...
It doesn't make sense to talk of "N times colder" full stop. 3K isn't a measure of coldness, and to define coldness as the reciprocal of temperature is arbitrary. "...a device cooled to 1% of the temperature of intergalactic space" reads perfectly well and uses well-defined terms.
"Insightful"? What the...? Either you don't know cooling is a HUGE problem in outer space, either the mods didn't get the joke.
Hint: here on earth, we cool stuff by dumping the extra heat onto air molecules, and keeping the air fresh (e.g. with a fan) so that there's a continuous supply of air to dump heat on. In outer space, there is pretty much nothing to dump the extra heat on. Know how thermos bottles work? That's right, with vacuum. Outer space is the best insulation there is ;-)
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A: A banana.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Doesn't the average person have to understand Kelvin to pass high school? I remember doing an experiment to determine absolute zero when I was 14: plot temperature against pressure of a gas and extrapolate back until the molecules are stationary - our results were within a degree or two of the accepted value, which made it quite an interesting experiment. This led the class to a discussion of absolute zero and the Kelvin scale. After that, pretty much every temperature value in a science class was done in Kelvin.
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Wait, shouldn't 100x colder than 1C sort of depend on what temperature I'm comparing it to? (Since hot/cold are relative, but temperature isn't)
Faster-Higher-Stronger.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Okay, let's do the math here, if space is ~3K, then that puts this 'new transistor' material at about .03K or 3 HUNDREDTHS of a degree above absolute zero.
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm willing to be the properties of this will not be the same at room temp, or even close to room temperature. And I rather doubt the performance of the transistors will outweigh the eneergy requirements needed to keep it at that cold a temp.
So, why is this news exactly?
Pax Vobiscum
I'll nominate your post for the first use of this new mod category...
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
... hence why TFA specified intergalactic space.
I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
Here's the problem... when you say things like "x times SMALLER than" and "x times COLDER than" people think "oh, something TIMES something... I have to multiply."
But with diminishing comparisons (smaller, colder, etc) you're actually multiplying by a decimal, which most people regard as DIVISION.
Worse, when you say something like "100 times colder than" people think not just "I have to multiply" but rather "I have to multiply something by 100".
Let's save everyone a headache and if you want to make a comparison, use the most explicit form possible. In this case, "1/100th the temperature of intergalactic space" (or just give us the damn Kelvins).
To paraphrase an AC's earlier post:
Well, the faster speeds and smaller sizes part anyway.
-
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In fact I've got up to ten times MORE awesome in my little finger than you have in your whole body.
It does ache a bit in cold weather, though.
If coldness is a measure of the absence of heat, or energy, then something which is 100x colder contains 100x less heat/energy. 0.03K contains 100x less energy than 3K, since K is a direct measure of energy content.
And over there we have the labyrinth guards. One always lies, one always tells the truth, and one stabs people who ask t
Just to make sure everybody knows: The necessary magnetic field and temperature applications are required only during the creation of the crystals.
--Edward Dassmesser
That took me by surprise. I was sure it was going to be because of the vast number of virtual particles constantly appearing and disappearing within the vacuum.
I am not a physicist but quantum fluctuations can also contribute to the problem I believe. It is quantum fluctuations that don't make space totally empty therefore they do have a reason to be discussed. Either way it does boil down to the Uncertainty Principle which prevent us from knowing 100% whether we have a true vacuum or not. And someone else said that maybe this only causes us to never know whether we have a true vacuum or not. I can't answer that but using logic it would seem that to be the case. Hower, using additional logic you run into a problem I think: As soon as you measure something you alter it so for all we know, we'll never see a true vacuum because we always cause it to disappear, therefore it doesn't (or can't) exist.
this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
2.7 degrees Kelvin blackbody. That is the temperature of space since under normal conditions nothing can get colder than that temperature.
Depends what you mean by "normal" conditions. Under natural conditions the coldest place in the known universe is about 1 kelvin. Expanding gases automatically cool down, and the Boomerang Nebula is huge blob of gas that is expanding extremely rapidly. It has cooled to less than half of the universal background temp.
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You are the average Joe. You see an article which uses "0.03K" to describe temperature. Do you:
a) Remember that K stands for Kelvin, a measure of temperature in which 0 is absolute zero.
b) Google for "temperature K", find the Wikipedia page, and discover what Kelvin is.
c) Mutter something about those stupid journalists writing stuff nobody can understand, and skip to the next article.
If you chose A or B, you are incorrect!
If you mod me Overrated, you are admitting that you have no penis.
From the lab that did the experiment: http://www.physics.mcgill.ca/~hedbergj/labpage/projects.htm Quote: "...atomic force microscope (AFM) that will operate in a ~50 mK environment with a 16 Tesla magnet. " So this case "100 times colder than space" is ~50mK
TC - My Photos..
What implications does this have for the big bang? I assume that before the big bang, space was colder, thusly opening the door for for creation of this type of matter before the universe heated. Does this have implications beyond computing?
What's the difference between something not existing, and something existing but being impossible to detect?
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
No - because most of us don't know how cold intergalactic space is to start with, and then the 2.7 is still somewhat arbitrary sounding even if intergalactic space was stated to be 3 K. Why not 2.8 or 2.9 or 2.999? Saying 100 times colder indicates a particular order of magnitude was selected for the work, and who knows where we'll be at even greater orders of magnitude?
Another No - it's actually 2.97 K colder.
Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
This is pretty much the same state our (USA) measurement system is in. I personally wouldn't mind using centimeters/kilometers/grams opposed to our "less" useful system.
But you are right, the problem is that it requires EVERYONE to change, which no one does. When I want to hear kph, I always get mph regardless. So keeping 2 measuring systems in my head is hard enough.
It's kind of like languages. When you are surrounded by a language the first 20 years of your life, its hard to 'think' in another language in your head even if you do learn to speak another language fluently. You would almost need the next 20 years of not speaking your native language, and I'm pretty sure when I ask how fast car 'x' can go here, I'm going to get mph in the response, and no, me immigrating to a place that uses kph for 20+ years won't change the system over here.
Disclaimer: I am not god.
We may not be created equal
But we can be treated equal.
lest a Christian decides to sue when they mention water turns solid at 32 degrees F since their messiah could clearly walk on it in the middle east where it tends to be warmer than that
I think you've got it backwards. I've never heard of any case in the last 30 years where a public school teacher got in trouble for NOT catering to a religion. Rather, teachers who have religious beliefs have to be very careful even mentioning them in class because of all the ANTI-religious lawsuits that have occured. There have been groups trying to get "I.D." or voluntary prayer or whatnot INTO schools by political means, but not by lawsuits (at least not that I've heard about).
To get back on topic: I, for one, had never heard a temperature expressed as "100 times colder than". It may be common in some circles, but apparently I wasn't the only one that hadn't heard it.
Prov 9:8 Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you.
Question -- I never really understood this. I'm not a scientist but I thought that the only thing that could have a temperature is matter, and that space is the absence of matter. How can a vacuum have a temperature?
Q: What is the difference between a duck?
A: Two feet.
Now, let's see what horrible responses I get from those who don't understand this joke.
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
It corresponds to energy radiated by a roughly 2.7 degrees Kelvin
So, 100x cooler would be (100 X 2.7) = 270 degrees Kelvin?
Now, how big is it, in terms of golf balls?
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
That is not "normal" conditions. I have semantically secured my argument from your rebuttal. Next. :-)
More seriously, I did know about this instance. That's why I use the "normal" modifier in the first place.
The LoC stores at 10 C, or 283.15 K, or about 9438 times warmer than the 0.03 K the object is created at.
Does space even have a temperature? Vacuum insulates rather well and the biggest problem of many space-born devices (think ISS) is getting rid of excess heat. The famous Star Trek line of "It's very cold in space" doesn't really match the reality.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Wait, okay, so Kelvin is -273.15C or -459.67F
That looks like an absolute number to me.
So, Kelvin and Celsius are roughly the same scale, so to get the Celsius you would simply add 2.7 to -273.15C, which is -270.45C. That sounds like an absolute number to me
So, 100 times colder than intergalactic space, we are looking at a temperature of about -27,045C. Once again, this sounds like a deffinate number to me.
4 is 4 times as big as 1.
Most people (and all marketers) would say it's 4 times bigger.
I know you're my "Foe", and as such you were just replying to me out of spite, jealous of my insightful mod.
It was discovered using a device cooled to a temperature about 100 times colder than intergalactic space, following the application of the most powerful continuous magnetic field on Earth."
That certainly lends itself to easy mass-production! Heck, we can all do that in our basements!
Last night I played a blank tape at full volume. The mime next door went nuts.
That's because temperature in space is not absolute zero. Nothing ever can reach that limit. Temperature in space hovers at about 3 Kelvin.
"kph"? WTF? If you're using kph instead of km/h, then you're part of the problem.
Atheism is a religion to the same extent that not collecting stamps is a hobby.
What's the difference between something not existing, and something existing but being impossible to detect?
Praying to the first thing would be silly, but praying to the second one is a de facto requirement to be the U.S. president.
Atheism is a religion to the same extent that not collecting stamps is a hobby.
According to wikipedia, Intergalactic space is between 100000 and 10000000 K. Reading comprehension much?
I don't want my PC to be running between 1000K and 1000000K, that's way too hot!
What's the difference between a dog?
One of it's legs is both the same.
Frank Carson - Tiswas
This is Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. An absolute zero temperature vacuum is definitely impossible due to the uncertainty principle.
But it sounds so much better when you say it like this: An absolute zero temperature vacuum is certainty impossible due to the uncertainty principle.
i love a good paradox
So, Kelvin and Celsius are roughly the same scale
Roughly? how about, they *are* the same scale, just transposed 273.15 [units]
http://www.bipm.org/en/si/si_brochure/chapter2/2-2/table3.html
I will not give in to the terrorists. I will not become fearful.
My apologies, like I was saying, I hardly use it. I knew it sounded funny though, but since spell checker didn't care, I figured I would go with the flow.
Disclaimer: I am not god.
We may not be created equal
But we can be treated equal.
I'm betting they meant 0.03 kelvin roughly. That would be a factor of 100 smaller.
Is that Joe Six pack, or Joe the Plumber?
Experience teaches only the teachable. -AH
"It was discovered using a device cooled to a temperature about 100 times colder than intergalactic space, following the application of the most powerful continuous magnetic field on Earth."
They should have that working by Tuesday. Intel and AMD no doubt already have patented the chip and are building the foundries.
Right.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
What's the difference between something not existing, and something existing but being impossible to detect?
Twelve.
David Gould
main(i){putchar(340056100>>(i-1)*5&31|!!(i<6)<< 6)&&main(++i);}
I would actually go farther than "doesn't hurt", and say there should be a clear value, both to help the technically minded and to inform the masses about temperature. But that was not my point above, and so didn't bring it up.
When I say "absolute scale" I mean one where zero is pinned to the absence of whatever you are measuring. What you say is true for all linear scales, but not all linear scales are absolute, and not all absolute scales are linear. (Kelvin, however, is both. Bels (think decibel) are neither.) Basically, a scale is a coordinate system on a half line or ray, and is only an absolute scale if the origin of the coordinate system is on the origin of the ray. I would not think of a size scale where I am zero feet tall and my wife -1 feet tall as an absolute scale.