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$125 Million Settlement In Authors Guild v. Google

James Gleick writes "Authors, publishers, and Google are announcing a huge settlement deal today in their lawsuits over the scanning of millions of copyrighted books in library collections. Google has agreed to a huge payout for books that were scanned without permission, but now they'll be allowed to scan the books legitimately. Most important, they'll be able to put millions of books online, including those still in copyright — not just for searching and not just in snippets. There is a groundbreaking new licensing system meant to make the books as widely available as possible while protecting the authors' copyrights and enabling them to share in the revenue. Some will differ, but personally I think this is a wonderful outcome, for readers and for authors alike."

25 of 238 comments (clear)

  1. I can has source material? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Good now it will be easier to find source material for all the obscure topics on my Wikipedia to-do list.

    1. Re:I can has source material? by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If they wanted their writings available for free, then why would they bother to publish in the first place?

      Content creators deserve some rights to their works.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    2. Re:I can has source material? by ShadowRangerRIT · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When you steal a book, and keep it permanently without compensation, that makes you no better than the Plantation Masters. IMHO.

      Wow. Hyperbole anyone? Last I checked we are not:

      1. Whipping the authors
      2. Raping the authors
      3. Taking their children away
      4. Denying them any personal rights

      In case you weren't aware, you can dislike a particular viewpoint without making strained comparisons to slave holders (or any of the other favorites, e.g. Nazis).

      --
      $_ = "wftedskaebjgdpjgidbsmnjgcdwatb"; tr/a-z/oh, turtleneck Phrase Jar!/; print
    3. Re:I can has source material? by Matheus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      OK.. slow down a bit:

      We are not telling the authors to give all of their books for free (nor work in dark dank dungeons with burly leather clad masters whipping them into submission)

      The issue is part of the complicated world we are moving into. In the past a work had severe cost to bring to the people and so the business model made as much money as possible from distribution over a short period of time and then those resources were moved to a newer piece of material.
      Those books in their remaining form dropped in price significantly leading to an excellent used book market for extremely cheap (or free at your library) spreading the knowledge to the masses.

      Now those costs are high in the short term but the work can now be distributed extremely cheaply AND indefinitely.. The issue we've run into with just about everything is publishers trying to now keep their old entry level pricing going forever with a perpetual hold on the material. Think all the fun battles with MPAA/RIAA this is the same thing ONLY with the help of a massive "donation" by Google (services and settlement $$$) plus a very solid outlook on the part of the literary big business (at least the educational institutions involved) we get a MUCH better solution that benefits all involved.

      I know someday (maybe/probably even now in the dark) Google's power will corrupt as power always does but for the time being it is enjoyable to watch what they may accomplish trying to follow a "Do no evil" philosophy.

    4. Re:I can has source material? by mcgrew · · Score: 5, Informative

      If they wanted their writings available for free, then why would they bother to publish in the first place?

      Cory Doctorow answered you question in the forward to Little Brother far better than I can.

      I recently saw Neil Gaiman give a talk at which someone asked him how he felt about piracy of his books. He said, "Hands up in the audience if you discovered your favorite writer for free -- because someone loaned you a copy, or because someone gave it to you? Now, hands up if you found your favorite writer by walking into a store and plunking down cash." Overwhelmingly, the audience said that they'd discovered their favorite writers for free, on a loan or as a gift. When it comes to my favorite writers, there's no boundaries: I'll buy every book they publish, just to own it (sometimes I buy two or three, to give away to friends who must read those books). I pay to see them live. I buy t-shirts with their book-covers on them. I'm a customer for life.

      Neil went on to say that he was part of the tribe of readers, the tiny minority of people in the world who read for pleasure, buying books because they love them. One thing he knows about everyone who downloads his books on the Internet without permission is that they're readers, they're people who love books.

      People who study the habits of music-buyers have discovered something curious: the biggest pirates are also the biggest spenders. If you pirate music all night long, chances are you're one of the few people left who also goes to the record store (remember those?) during the day. You probably go to concerts on the weekend, and you probably check music out of the library too. If you're a member of the red-hot music-fan tribe, you do lots of everything that has to do with music, from singing in the shower to paying for black-market vinyl bootlegs of rare Eastern European covers of your favorite death-metal band.

      Same with books. I've worked in new bookstores, used bookstores and libraries. I've hung out in pirate ebook ("bookwarez") places online. I'm a stone used bookstore junkie, and I go to book fairs for fun. And you know what? It's the same people at all those places: book fans who do lots of everything that has to do with books. I buy weird, fugly pirate editions of my favorite books in China because they're weird and fugly and look great next to the eight or nine other editions that I paid full-freight for of the same books. I check books out of the library, google them when I need a quote, carry dozens around on my phone and hundreds on my laptop, and have (at this writing) more than 10,000 of them in storage lockers in London, Los Angeles and Toronto.

      If I could loan out my physical books without giving up possession of them, I would. The fact that I can do so with digital files is not a bug, it's a feature, and a damned fine one. It's embarrassing to see all these writers and musicians and artists bemoaning the fact that art just got this wicked new feature: the ability to be shared without losing access to it in the first place. It's like watching restaurant owners crying down their shirts about the new free lunch machine that's feeding the world's starving people because it'll force them to reconsider their business-models. Yes, that's gonna be tricky, but let's not lose sight of the main attraction: free lunches!

      Universal access to human knowledge is in our grasp, for the first time in the history of the world. This is not a bad thing.

      In case that's not enough for you, here's my pitch on why giving away ebooks makes sense at this time and place:

      Giving away ebooks gives me artistic, moral and commercial satisfaction. The commercial question is the one that comes up most often: how can you give away free ebooks and still make money?

      For me -- for pretty much every writer -- the big problem isn't piracy, it's obscurity (thanks to Tim O'Reilly for this great aphorism). Of all the people who faile

    5. Re:I can has source material? by vux984 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nope. You're just making them work without pay for their creations.

      I didn't 'make' them do anything.

      How would you like to spend time creating a beautiful piece of programming & your employer just says "thanks" and takes it w/o paying you?

      Your right that would suck. Fortunately I neatly avoid this by requiring that I be paid in regular chunks throughout development, and if the payments were to cease I would cease handing over code. It works quite nicely.

    6. Re:I can has source material? by Chyeld · · Score: 3, Interesting

      >>>Otherwise, all that was shown was a brief snippet of text surrounding the search term.

      Not true. I've read whole books on google. If it had been fair-use such as a single page, then you're right, it would have been okay. But google presented searchers with virtually the entire book.

      Which books? Because if they did I guarantee you it was because they had the right to. Either the book was in the public domain or the rights to present it that way were already obtained.

      Name the books, otherwise, I call bullshit. I've used the service and I know it only provides snippets unless it has negotiated the rights to more.

      From Google:

      How are book previews limited?
      Many of the books you can preview on Google Book Search are still in copyright, and are displayed with the permission of publishers and authors. You can browse these "limited preview" titles just as you would in a bookstore, but you won't be able to see more pages than the copyright holder has made available.

      When you've accessed the maximum number of pages allowed for a book, any remaining pages will be omitted from your preview. You can order full copies of any book using the "Buy this book" links to the right of the preview page.

    7. Re:I can has source material? by jesterzog · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nope. You're just making them work without pay for their creations.

      They worked without pay from me, too, but they still created.

  2. at last. its f*ckin 21st century ffs. by unity100 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    books written 50 years ago and already made millions for their writer's grandsons should not be still being used as cow cashes, instead should join the public domain to the common heritage of human civilization.

    1. Re:at last. its f*ckin 21st century ffs. by east+coast · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In all fairness to Christopher Tolkien, at least he had an active role in his father's estate and actually worked to produce some of the wealth. It's not like he sat on his hands and just let the checks roll in and any Tolkien fan should have a bit of admiration and offer up a little thanks for Christopher and his desire to see his father's work get to the masses. Without Christopher these works would either have been lost or found their way into a private collectors collection for a high price. He certainly didn't need to be as responsible as he is.

      --
      Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
    2. Re:at last. its f*ckin 21st century ffs. by larry+bagina · · Score: 4, Funny

      The good news: Barack Obama will redistribute copyrights.

      The bad news: You were assigned copyright for "The Joy of Gay Sex Volume 3: Extreme Fisting"

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    3. Re:at last. its f*ckin 21st century ffs. by afabbro · · Score: 4, Informative

      Like Lord of the Rings?

      Yes. Consider that there are some Sherlock Holmes stories that are still under copyright in the USA.

      --
      Advice: on VPS providers
  3. It's easier to say "sorry" than ask permission... by SupplyMission · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This may have been Google's strategy all along.

    Step 1: start scanning and distributing copyrighted books without permission.

    Step 2: writers and publishers get pissed off and sue.

    Step 3: settle and obtain permission to go even further.

    It worked. Now Google will have control over electronic access to a massive amount of printed material.

    This may be just a silly conspiracy theory. But on the other hand would a company like Google, with massive financial and legal resources, naively embark on a blatant copyright infringement project? Not likely; it's obvious they had a strategy in mind from the beginning.

  4. show me the money by chromakey · · Score: 4, Interesting

    And where is the money for this settlement going? Is it actually going to go to some authors who had their books scanned or is the majority going to the lawyers and the guild itself?

  5. What about youtube then? by 192939495969798999 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Doesn't this sorta set the precedent that Google should be paying some kinda royalty to youtube usrs that generate a lot of traffic, if it's no longer considered legitimate to just "take" content and post it on the internet?

    --
    stuff |
    1. Re:What about youtube then? by whisper_jeff · · Score: 5, Informative

      Google doesn't take video content for Youtube - users submit video content. Enormous difference.

  6. The Mummy by chill · · Score: 4, Funny

    When reading this the scene from The Mummy where Alex is trying to buy a couple camels from the Bedouin herdsman.

    Jonathan: Four! Four! I only want four, not the whole bloody herd!
    Rick: Jonathan, just give the man his money.

    Google Lawyers: Snippets! Snippets! I only want to expose searchable snippets, not the whole bloody book!
    Google Founder: Just give the men their money.

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
  7. Re:Google Books rocks by Kandenshi · · Score: 4, Funny

    Truly, an inspiring tale of intellectual growth and of skeptical inquiry into the nature of reality.

    As a longtime student, it always brings some warm fuzzies to my heart to hear of how others have done their bit to advance the knowledge of humanity by challenging the status quo.

  8. If it were up to me, yes by davidwr · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm not the grandparent poster, but if it were up to me, copyrights would last less than the average human lifetime.

    To paraphrase the early United States Congresses, "nobody will ever need more than 28 years of exclusive rights." On average we live longer now so 28 years is a bit short in today's terms.

    If it were up to me, the maximum term of copyright protection would be somewhere between 50 years and the the average expected lifespan of a 4 year old at the time the work was created. Where in between? We should have a national discussion on this not controlled by special interests to determine it.

    Why age 4? 1) works created by kids under that age generally more "play" than "creative," and generally have very little market value, and 2) it removes infant mortality from the equation.

    I would require that after the first 10-20 years or so, the public gets a non-controlling financial interest in the copyright: You can renew copyrights in 10- to 20-year increments, but with each increment you have to promise to forward an increasingly-higher percentage of any royalties to the national treasury. Royalties previously paid that extend into the renewal period would require a pro-rated payment to the treasury as well. You would of course have the option to not renew and let your work fall into the public domain.

    Going forward, works re-published 10-20 years after creation which are legally published but without a (c) mark are presumed to be in the public domain unless the publisher can show it was done in error. Today's automatic copyright-on-creation would still be in play, but they would expire after 10-20 years if not renewed. To protect existing works and contracts based on those works, the "new regime" would only apply to works created after a certain date. I don't like the current regime's long terms but messing with it with a blunt instrument like imposing a new regime on all existing works introduces a whole host of problems. It's far better to solve the orphan works and other problems with a more finely-tuned solution.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:If it were up to me, yes by theaveng · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You're dead. What do you care where/how your music is used? Besides, it's a sad fact that if "evil corporations" did not use 200-300-400 year old music, a lot of that stuff would be forgotten by all by a few college professors and music historians.

      Those 30 or 60 second ads have the benefit of keeping those ancient works "alive" in the minds of millions, rather than falling into disuse.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    2. Re:If it were up to me, yes by Mprx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, *you* give control of the work to the public domain when you publish. To encourage you and others to give more work to the public domain we give you a temporary monopoly over it. If you want complete control of your writing you should keep it to yourself.

  9. Electronic searching, pring reading by eagle52997 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm a graduate student and I love that Google has many books available online. I have searched and found many books of interest to my research because I was able to actually skim pertinent sections, rather than having to guess based on the title and who the author was. Then, once I found these books, I checked out the print copies to read. I still find the print easier to read than the electronic, but may be the last of a dying breed.

  10. Re:this just makes sense by davidwr · · Score: 3, Funny

    The slashdot incorrectly-implemented-meme filter must be broken. Your post should have been rejected. CmdrTaco, can you please look into this? Thanks.

    step 1 - illegally allow access to copyrighted material
    step 2 - say "see how popular it is?" and apologize and pay small fine
    step 3 - ???
    step 4 - profit!

    There, fixed that for you.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  11. Seems to me like we need cash cows... by tjstork · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You know, i would be tempted to agree with you if only for the practical political point that ending copyrights would gut the finances of liberalism and I happen to be a Republican.

    But...

    Um, just having a quick look at the finances of the USA, and I have to ask, what exactly is someone allowed to make any money in this new world. Oil companies are not allowed to earn half the profits of apple, coal companies are not allowed to operate, car companies can't make money... seems to me we have plenty of companies not making money doing something and perhaps that, we might be better off if someone did make money.

    Perhaps the best way to accomodate IP longevity is to have a copyright property tax. So... if you hold the copyright to a work, you either pay the tax or put the work into the PD. That way, if something is genuinely valuable, like Lord of the Rings, then, it can still produce income and benefit the economy and be accessible through normal markets, but, the rest of the stuff won't be locked up, away from people's view, like old movies or books out of print.

    --
    This is my sig.
  12. copying a book = plantation master? by Rick+Bentley · · Score: 4, Funny

    When you steal a book, and keep it permanently without compensation, that makes you no better than the Plantation Masters.

    Really? Stealing a $5 item is akin to kidnapping entire families, beating them into submission and keeping them as slaves? Are you smoking crack or just a lawyer for the RIAA or the MPAA?

    How about if I just make an unauthorized copy of an item, in violation of a term to which I never agreed? Am I now just a person who kidnaps people, beats them for a few weeks and then lets them go?

    --
    My favorite quote doesn't fit into 120 characters. Now no one will like me.