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Cassini Could Find Signs of Life on Enceladus

Posted by kdawson on from the buddy-can-you-spare-some-methane dept.

New Scientist reviews the possibility that the Cassini probe might be repurposed to look for signs of life on Saturn's enigmatic moon Enceladus. "[Enceladus' water vapor] plume's origin is still being debated, but some models suggest the moon holds an ocean of liquid water beneath its surface. This ocean could be a potential habitat for extraterrestrial life. ... Though the probe was never designed to look for life, it could do so by studying organic chemicals such as methane in the plume, the team says."

33 of 126 comments (clear)

  1. Just imagine what could be there by ptbob · · Score: 2, Interesting

    With all the weird things we find on Earth, I wonder what could be in that water?

    1. Re:Just imagine what could be there by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Cells? Hell, I'd be happy with the discovery of precursors to amino acids and proteins. we have a lot to learn about how environments effect change as well as which envronments can and cannot spawn life.

      When people hypothesize about life forming on earth, they mention catalysts such as lightning strikes or volcanoes jump-starting chemical reactions. Not a far stretch of imagination given the thermophilic and cryophilic bacteria here on earth. Unfortunately, I don't think we should expect to find anything profound until we can load ourselves into a rocket, go there ourselves, and hope that we can return and analyze our samples without contaminating them.

    2. Re:Just imagine what could be there by pm_rat_poison · · Score: 2, Funny

      Maybe we'll find the Intelligent Designer with a supercomputer designing life on earth. All that vapor must come from water-cooling the circuits

    3. Re:Just imagine what could be there by owlnation · · Score: 2, Funny

      With all the weird things we find on Earth, I wonder what could be in that water?

      It's a moon, so obviously... WHALES!!!

      Everybody sing: "we're whalers on the moon..."

    4. Re:Just imagine what could be there by CRCulver · · Score: 2, Insightful

      At -175C on the outer rings, its got to be even colder on the surface. If at all there is water on the surface, its frozen solid for gazillion years.

      Unless there is still geological activity beneath the surface, as there possibly is on several moons.

    5. Re:Just imagine what could be there by dreamchaser · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Precursors? They've already determined that complete amino acids can be found on carbonaceous asteroids. It's actually *easy* to make amino acids; the mystery is how amino and nucleic acids came together to form what we call life. My guess is given the right environment (liquid water, ingredients, and a source of energy) and enough time 'life' forms under a variety of other variables.

    6. Re:Just imagine what could be there by dotancohen · · Score: 3, Funny

      With all the weird things we find on Earth, I wonder what could be in that water?

      Don't drink it.

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    7. Re:Just imagine what could be there by Gat0r30y · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The problem here is that right now we only have the one data point for the formation of life (our lonely blue marble). So we really haven't got a good idea of what is suitable for the formation of life, and so far our approach has been to assume that it must be pretty darn close to what we have here.

      --
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    8. Re:Just imagine what could be there by snowraver1 · · Score: 4, Informative

      There is a lot of heat that gets created from tidal action. The gas giants have such intense gravity that it warps the surface of the moons as they rotate around the planet. This shifting of the moon creates a lot of heat. Enough to have liquid water? Who knows.

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    9. Re:Just imagine what could be there by Smauler · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Don't assume life will automatically exist where there is water and light. Just because the conditions for life are there, doesn't mean it's not a massive improbability that it starts. If the start of life was easy, we would have replicated it centuries ago. Personally, I would be very suprised if we see life in our solar system (apart from Earth). I do still hope to be suprised though... but not by a face consuming alien killer virus, obviously.

    10. Re:Just imagine what could be there by Fluffeh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not to totally go in the face of your post, but to counter your "massive improbability" comment. Yes, it's totally a massive improbability that life starts easily. However, what life has on it's side is TIME. Enceladus has been happily circling it's planet for millions of years. Sure, it's improbably that life was created there in the first minute. It's also improbably that just the right mix of ingredients was there the next minute - but the odds get better and better with every following minute that the right bunch of ingredients came along and life popped into existence from the precursors that were in the water. Given millions and millions of years, I would say that the chances don't look like a massive improbability, but more along the lines of a massive probability that at some point the right mix of things came together and made life of some sort. I would go so far as to say that I think it would be a massive improbability that the universe isn't simply teeming with life of all sorts.

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    11. Re:Just imagine what could be there by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's difficult to say whether it's improbable or not. We know that some pretty damned neat chemistry can take place where you have liquid water, complex organic compounds and a good source of energy. There are a number of bodies in the solar system that now appear to have at least the water and energy, and finding amino acids and other organic compounds in cometary bodies is a pretty good indicator that places like Enceladus and Europa probably have their fair share as well. The real difficulty is these worlds have really thick layers of ice, so getting a sample of what's in the oceans beneath would be a trick.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    12. Re:Just imagine what could be there by sznupi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Problem is even bigger - our only data point shows us the place FEW BILLION YEARS after formation of first life here; which greatly affected the environment (presence of free oxygen, carbon cycle in the atmosphere regulating global climate, and so on...).

      Therefore, contrary to what you say in your last sentence, we can't assume at all that what is suitable for the formation of life is close to what we have here...simply because conditions on early Earth, when life formed, were so vastly different (and we're not sure EXACTLY what they were...)

      Actually, it's fairly safe to assume that, while current conditions on Earth are a good indication of presence of "old" organic life, they might actually hinder birth of new life (excluding memes taking over genes to such a degree that life becomes "technological")

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
  2. Re:Methane? by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Because in space, no one can hear you fart.

    These are Saturnian farts. Much stronger than your average SBD.

  3. Sounds nice but.... by blackholepcs · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The only problem with stories like this is that we either don't actually do it, or we DO do it and get results that tell us nothing useful (as far as the question of E.T. life). Why can't they just :

    1. Design and build rover/robot/probe whose sole task is to find and identify life on another planet/moon/whatever.
    2. Deploy said rover/robot/probe.
    3. Get definitive answer - Yes there is/yes there was actual life here, or No there isn't/no there wasn't actual life here.
    4. Rinse and repeat.

    Seriously, why is that so hard?

    --
    Halitosis - (n.) Halle Berry's Camel Toe.
    1. Re:Sounds nice but.... by internerdj · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Because ET life believers have been painted as nutjobs because of the outspoken ones who had ahem "close" encounters with ET life. Scientifically speaking it is certainly probable we could find something else, getting emotional taxpayers to fund something is an entirely different story. Especially with step 4.

    2. Re:Sounds nice but.... by argent · · Score: 4, Interesting

      How do you know when you've found life?

      How do you distinguish between life and unusual chemical reactions?

      Sure, if a gnarled humanoid pops up and waves a glowing finger at you, you've found life, but what happens if you just find a brown stain that seems to be producing oxygen? Is it alive or a permanganate salt?

    3. Re:Sounds nice but.... by dotancohen · · Score: 2, Funny

      ...but what happens if you just find a brown stain...

      Please, enough about the Ubuntu wallpaper already!

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
  4. Extra-terrestrials living in the oceans by mfh · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Extra-terrestrials will taste good with some fava beans, and a nice Chianti.

    --
    The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
    1. Re:Extra-terrestrials living in the oceans by Coraon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      actually if its living in cold water and it is on the primitive scale my guess is it'll look like a freaky lobster, so it will probably go better with a white wine and a nice butter sauce...

      --
      -Ours is the wisdom of Solomon, the magic of Merlyn, the fall of Icaris.
  5. Just go to Taco Bell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I am sure their Enceladus are teaming with bacteria from the unwashed hands of the employees who prepare them.

  6. Re:Methane? by jollyreaper · · Score: 2, Funny

    Because in space, no one can hear you fart.

    More importantly, no one can smell it, either.

    --
    Kwisatz Haderach
    Sell the spice to CHOAM
    This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
  7. On the other hand... by alexborges · · Score: 5, Funny

    It may NOT find life there...

    Wow, the things that happen in this crazy solar system.

    --
    NO SIG
    1. Re:On the other hand... by Mistshadow2k4 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah, that's kind of what I thought. Could? They could find some strange new form of life in my purse or any single man's refrigerator.

      --
      I dream of a better world... one in which chickens can cross roads without their motives being questioned.
  8. Laughed at in college by Mr.+McGibby · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wrote a paper in a college astronomy course where I speculated that Enceladus might have life given the water there. I was given a lower grade because of it.

    Vindication is sweet.

    --
    Mad Software: Rantings on Developing So
    1. Re:Laughed at in college by sexconker · · Score: 4, Funny

      That's what you get for thinking in college.

    2. Re:Laughed at in college by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I wrote a paper in a college astronomy course where I speculated that Enceladus might have life given the water there. I was given a lower grade because of it. Vindication [of the idea] is sweet.

      The founder of Federal Express allegedly got a "C" for the company's idea outlined in an economics project.
           

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    3. Re:Laughed at in college by grahamd0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, because mainstream scientists believe that his speculation has enough merit that they're willing to commit time and money to find out if it's correct.

      That is, I took his post to mean that he was vindicated in the sense that he was making a valid line of inquiry, rather than making up crackpot theories that deserve to be modded down by a teacher.

  9. New close-up pictures of Enceladus taken last week by sighted · · Score: 3, Informative

    Just a few days ago, Cassini buzzed close by Enceladus and took high-res shots of the fissures where the geysers originate. Earlier this month during an even closer pass, the spacecraft took direct samples of the plume.

    --
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  10. Misleading Summary by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think that the summary (and to a lesser extent, the story) only accurate if you don't think that Cassini is already looking for signs of life on Enceladus. In fact, Enceladus has become (with Titan) one of the most important mission objectives for Cassini. As the story points out, the kind of data that would help address the possibility of life has already been collected (and will no doubt continue to be collected).

    In other words, this isn't repurposing, it's a story about what's already being done.

    1. Re:Misleading Summary by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In fact, Enceladus has become (with Titan) one of the most important mission objectives for Cassini.

      One downside to the life idea is that some speculate that Enceladus's warm condition may be periodic due to a recent but no-longer-existing orbit arrangement with another moon(s). If this is the case, then the moon may not stay warm long enough for life to get a foothold. While earth life is capable of "hibernating" in frozen conditions between cycles, it probably took a while before it got sophisticated enough to pull such tricks.

      Thus, Jupiter's Europa is still the better bet in my opinion because the source of its heat (for liquid water) is known and fairly stable. As I remember it, simulations show that it's tidal friction with Jup and nearby moons is sufficient to generate needed internal melting. This is not the case with Enceladus. It's heat source is still a mystery.
           

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    2. Re:Misleading Summary by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It depends on how long the warmth lasts. Life on Earth arose fairly quickly after things got habitable. (A few hundred million years is, I believe, now the best figure.) So it's possible for Enceladus to develop life quickly, too, if conditions were suitable.

      Also, you're forgetting the issue of accessibility. Europa's liquids are under at least a kilometer of ice, perhaps as much as ten kilometers. Enceladus's liquids are not only probably near the surface (tens to hundreds of meters), they're spewing into space so that no drilling is even required to reach them.

      Also-also: the models I've been seeing lately seem to suggest that the heat here may be related to primordial heating. In that case, Enceladus may have been warm for a very long time, longer than Europa even. (The latter requires Ganymede and Io's joint resonance with it to keep its eccentricity high enough to cause the tidal flexing that produces heat. That resonance was likely not primordial, although I've seen suggestions that it could have been.)

  11. Re:New close-up pictures of Enceladus taken last w by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 3, Informative

    The original story is at CICLOPS. (I spent all day Saturday helping get that stuff together.)