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Four Google Officials Facing Charges In Italy For Errant Video
mikesd81 writes to tell us that four Google employees may be facing charges of defamation and failure to control personal data simply because they didn't remove a video of a boy with Down's Syndrome being harassed and eventually hit over the head with a box of tissue, from Google Video. The video was posted in September of 2006 and was removed by Google within a day of receiving the initial complaints, but apparently that isn't fast enough. "Google maintains charges against the employees are unwarranted, Pancini said. Europe's E-commerce Directive exempts service providers from prescreening content before it is publicly posted, he said. Also, the video was technically uploaded to a Google server in the US, not in Italy, Pancini said. 'It was a terrible video,' Pancini said, adding that Google is concerned about the case's impact on censorship on the Internet. The defendants include David C. Drummond, a Google senior vice president, corporate development and chief legal officer. Pancini said Drummond did paperwork to create Google Italy, but has never lived in the country."
Sometimes Youtube is like some sort of arena where the weak are abused for the mere amusement of the masses. And of course, Italians would never put up with such a vile spectacle!
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Seems that the internet having no boarders is being used by courts to extend their reach (e.g. Kentucky). This certainly does look like a good road to be traveling down.
Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
That's a bit machiavellian of them.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
How on earth are they suing individuals? Google is a corporation and must be treated as such under the law.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
If this proceeds, Google should simply shut down its operations in Italy and move to a neighboring country where its employees won't be targeted by tyrants.
I'm assuming Italy doesn't want that reputation.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
You may not know it but many prosecutors here in Italy are well known for being quite stupid and just trying to appear on newspapers. Laws in Italy are sometimes so complicated that they can justify any kind of "crime"
For anyone who has managed a web forum (or yahoo group or whatever) and been sued for defamation/libel over material posted by a 3rd party - Is Section 230 of the Federal Communications Decency Act the relevant US law to be used in one's defense?
It seems to be appropriate, but does anyone have personal experience?
So where is a link to the video?
Predictably, it doesn't state anywhere that Italian prosecutors are going after the boys who harassed and attacked a handicapped child.
I swear, it needs to become harder for people to form not-for-profit corporations and become "advocates" and activists. Too often such groups are good for nothing other than raising a stink over nothing, suing others, acting in petty, partisan ways, etc.
Are they vital to democracy? No. In fact, one of the things that such groups often make increasingly clear today is that they are enemies of liberty. It's one thing to protect everyone's right to speak their opinion (freedom of speech and freedom of the press). It's quite another for the law to make it easy to form tax-free organizations that exist entirely for the typically asinine purposes that most non-profits serve.
These people need to get lives and a real job doing something of value in the economy instead.
Too soon.
So let me get this straight, four kids were bullying a child with Down's Syndrome and a video of it was posted on Google Video. Rather than speaking with the parents of the children about bullying someone, especially someone with Down's Syndrome, prosecutors in Italy decide to go after Google? I don't think the teens involved should be going to jail and certainly Italian taxpayer time and money should not be directed completely on this. But I don't see how or why they are trying to go after Google, especially since they complied with the removal request within a day.
Also, for those of you wondering who Pancini is and didn't read the article, he is introduced in the article as Marco Pancini, Google's European public policy counsel. The summary does not mention who the hell he is.
Best "String" Ever!
Why don't you found a 501(c)(3) corporation to work for the banning of such groups?
I agree with you, and think that certain regulation should be implemented that mimics certain countries laws. That would be the person who shot the video, no the person who is hosting the server that let someone post the video. I am not sure(as I never read the articles) but if the person is guilty of not screening, then I don't think there should be punishment, but if there is a way to track the person who filmed the video and posted it...they are the ones who should get charged.
The election was Tuesday and it's all gone by Friday? SHEESH!!!!
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
Now that's funny - why'd you go and post as AC?
Oh, was that my outside voice?
What, you mean you can be sentenced to several years in jail in a nation that you're never even visited? Imagine the shock.
I wonder if we'll ever see an American extradited to Europe, Australia, or even China for breaking intellectual property laws. The US is currently lobbying for criminal law to be used to enforce patents in the EU - it would be amusing to see the response if Europe actually started requesting the extradition of Americans who are suspected of violating EU patents!
In other news, treaties that are only enforced by one side suck.
Now that's funny - why'd you go and post as AC?
Sorry i was in a hurry and i wasn't logged in...
Just kidding, i didn't post that. Hah. Or did i? Really i just wanted to ensure that if someone stepped up to the plate after this, it would be sufficiently confusing that one could never know if they were really the OP! Hah! Oh god, i need a life...
-Taylor
Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
(treading carefully not to invoke Godwin's Law)
Maybe they are trying to distance themselves from past mistakes and be better as the Germans have done.
I agree with you, and think that certain regulation should be implemented that mimics certain countries laws. That would be the person who shot the video, no the person who is hosting the server that let someone post the video. I am not sure(as I never read the articles) but if the person is guilty of not screening, then I don't think there should be punishment, but if there is a way to track the person who filmed the video and posted it...they are the ones who should get charged.
Charged with what? Putting a distasteful video on the internet? Do you know what kind of precedent that would set? Not that the current situation (suing google) is any better...
-Taylor
Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
In other news US accuses non-US citizen in non-US country of vague crime then unilaterally "extradites" accused to concentration camp in non-US country then releases suspect after 5 years with no charge.
Or for assaulting a kid with Down syndrome...
Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
Actually, I just want to see the video. Anyone have a link?
Do you know what kind of precedent that would set?
None, as the Italian law system is not based in common law and therefore does not have the notion of precedent
"You can't allow somebody to commit the crime before you detain them." [Condoleezza Rice]
I^H A friend of mine has DS, and I just need to confirm the habits of that fellow suffering through his ordeal. Is he more prone to Jock Itch too? Fark? Nintendo'd DS?
you mentioned it and lost.
Google has more money than the bullies parents.
Anyone quoted by a reporter knows how little they understand
Don't believe what you read is the truth.
Why sue Youtube?
There are the harassers and the video posters who are more directly linked with any harm.
Oh, right. The money.
Why doesn't Google simply tell Italy to shove it? What are they going to do about it? Google is an American not an Italian company.
Do you know what kind of precedent that would set?
None, as the Italian law system is not based in common law and therefore does not have the notion of precedent
Ah, well then, interesting.
-Taylor
Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
After watching some of Pasolini's flicks, I don't think they have much room to talk.
That was a comment that reeks Mafia all the way. Sure, some prosecutors are silly like there are silly people everywhere, but this kind of generalisation is typical of corrupt politicians who accuse prosecutors going after them of being politically motivated, as appearing in the press were the main aspiration of prosecutors (in case you did not know: we do not elect prosecutors nor judges here, so being known among the populace is no career advantage). There is much more money and career to be made by keeping quiet and pandering to illegal interests, as Corrado Carnevale exemplifies.
As for the specific case, I'd like to point out that in the Italian system felonies, once reported, must always be investigated and prosecuted, no matter the opinion of the prosecutor; it is a way of reducing arbitrary decisions and IMHO it is overall a Good Thing. As the article says, the decision to hold trial has not been made yet, and the chance that the prosecutor will ask for an archiving is not as small as you Americans may think; since all reported felonies must be investigated, dropping one is not a mark of incompetence on someone's career.
If I remember correctly, in this specific instance it was former justice minister Clemente Mastella, leader of a corruption-ridden micro-party and currently in political disgrace (the two things are unfortunately unrelated...) that was most vocal in calling for a ban on Youtube and Google video when the video surfaced, of course never suggesting that the people who uploaded the video and performed the assault should be investigated themselves.
In fact, I have no idea about what happened to the perpetrators. Surely I did not read nor hear anything on Italian media. It seems that all the fuss was about the thing being recorded and broadcast, instead of the crime itself.
Victims of 9/11: <3000. Traffic in the US: >30,000/y
Do you know what kind of precedent that would set?
A precedent that abuse is not acceptable?
I'm italian. For those of you who didn't know, here's a highly condensed list of relevant events in our recent history.
1 - Fascism is back.
Every democracy challenged regime must control the information sources, youtube included, therefore they're working on it in a subtle way.
While that video surely shouldn't have been posted online and those bastards deserve a new ass treatment in some dark jail, I'm pretty sure our government is trying to force things to the point Google will give the government a tool to delete unwanted post, which - as history taught us - will soon include stuff that any truly democratic government would allow to be posted.
Or for assaulting a kid with Down syndrome...
Yeah, sorry, i misread the article. I was thinking it was more of a playful thing that was just distasteful, not a harassment/assault thing.
-Taylor
Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
It's a rather outrageous case, and we all know it. Still, there's a certain satisfaction in seeing Google execs suffer for any reason. I imagine I'd feel the same way if W went to Singapore, gave his secret service buddy a stick of gum that was later spit onto the sidewalk, and got caned.
"I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
NO! Avast and be boarded matey!
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
With a box of tissues? Whatever, this is stupid.
Censorship, separation of powers, I would suggest that this video issue touches on those and others and we need Net Neutrality to prevent the bigotry of others from impacting any of us.
The impact on censorship is huge. No provider should ever be held liable for anyone's content. The fact that they are going after the company, in this case Google, and not the individuals that posted the content is bad enough in my opinion. If I were on a jury (of course in another country would you even have that option) I would want it thrown out based on censorship alone. You want to censor, go ahead and censor yourself if you want, but do NOT dare to decide for me or anyone else.
Bringing down the offending video should have been sufficient, but in this case appears not to have been. It should have been.
A good reason not to allow any court in any other country, NOT to have an impact in the country in which you live. We need to be held accountable to our laws alone, and many are bad enough without putting another countries garbage before our own.
Should this case or any case like it impact anyones freedom in the USA (or any other country); we all have additional problems. This must not be allowed to happen in the United States. (And no amount of fear should be acceptable to reduce an individuals rights as has been done here in the US by our own government in the last few years...sad but true for us.)
Another good reason for the separation of powers for any government. Two that come quickly to mind are legislative vs judicial and church vs state.
For legislative vs judicial, it seems simple enough, one group legislates, makes laws the other group bases their decisions on those laws. As I read this, this seems too simple a definition, perhaps someone with more legal expertise than I can add to this and make it better. Specifically, I do not have a problem as many do with the Supreme Court legislating from the Bench, is this not one thing they MUST do? Another thought, if you do not bring a decision up for them to decide than they cannot legislate from the bench can they? As I mention later this falls into the category of watching what you wish for as you just might get it. (Of course you can legislate morality, but SHOULD you? I would suggest that a wise person would NOT ever!)
For church vs state, it seems simple enough. If any of us want freedom of religion to worship and believe that this is a right given to us by our creator, than why allow any law to be made that will allow another group, no matter how well meaning, discriminate against our ability to worship (or not) as we see fit.
Yet many in this country, the good old USA, must really want to live under a theocracy as they consistently attempt to legislate religious activities, behavior, etc, you name it. Or perhaps many misguided Americans want to live under Despotism, our founding fathers understood what that meant as well. This is extremely short sighted and
Is your Internet Throttled? Install DD-Wrt, OpenWRT or Tomato to learn the truth! Google: 1Gbps/1Gbps: 5 Communities
Google immediately responded to this by denying ingress TCP packets from all Italian netblocks and redirecting google.it and google.co.it to goatse.cx.
Just kidding, but it would be funny.
It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
Assault only requires an unlawful attack, it need not cause any harm, nor even be physical in nature.
Considering that spitting on someone is considered assault and battery (battery being the part involving physical contact) in most of the US (not sure about Italy, but I would imagine the law is roughly analogous on this topic), I would imagine that a box of tissues at least qualifies as assault.
Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
And probably Italy, too.
Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
I think you missed the GP joke:
"too soon" wasn't for Jews, it was for Christians. See Ancient Rome, Nero, Lions, Feeding to the...
This whole thing is simply retarded.
I'm wondering why they would take the video down? Is not having the video going to improve the life of this child? Does it make us pretend that someone is not getting abused?
Sometimes we need to see the truth of things. Why isn't all of the NAZI propaganda, translated Hitler, Goebels and other speeches on YouTube, along with captured footage of all the outrages committed by them. Let's get all of our ugliness up there, and if there is any editing, let the editing be to yank out the gore so that the lesson of our brutality is not a mere snuff fest to watch with some buddies over a case of beer.
You could make a pretty compelling case that the Bush administration's efforts to censor terrorist web sites and traffic from the American people probably undermined his war effort far more than any left wing protest -ever- did.
If you dig around a bit, you find not only their web sites but their people too, and they aren't hiding their intentions or hatreds at all. A few minutes talking to them would quickly break oneself of the illusion that these are guys in the mold of the disenfranched western person that the nonviolent in America would want to believe these people are.
You never see a terrorist video describing their grievances, in the fashion, for example, the way American blacks and civil rights leaders might just take a camera to black guys getting firehosed by the police. Nope, these gladly post videos triumphing the killing of American soldiers, cheering the destruction of civilians. I guarantee you I've never seen Martin Luther King laughing that one of his people dressed up their retarded kid with explosives and sent him to bumbling towards a flea market.
Quite honestly, at a time when I had serious doubts about the war, some AQ fanboy posting videos cheering IEDs of American troops certainly hardened my opinion in -favor- of it. But oh no, Bush tries to censor -all- of it, giving us a substitute of "these people are really evil", and that's just lame. He could have stood up and said, "hey, if you don't believe me, when I say that we have to fight these people, just go ask them...seriously... just go talk to al qaeda yourself, and see, at http://www.someterroristwebsite.com/"
As much as the right wing makes fun of the left for pretending that there is no evil, the right did itself no favors by trying to hide it.
This is my sig.
Why don't you found a 501(c)(3) corporation to work for the banning of such groups?
Nah. Too much work.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
First rule of Godwin's law, Don't talk about Godwin's law.
maybe not a legal precedent in the traditional sense, but just because there's no common law doesn't mean people won't imitate these actions and file similar cases after seeing the successful prosecution of the defendants in this case. heck, other European, and even non-European, countries could see it as an affirmation of "societally acceptable" censorship.
it's just like when the U.K. starts putting up surveillance cameras everywhere it, not only sets a bad example, but also makes it more permissible for, and in fact encourages, other governments to similarly encroach on the rights of their own citizenry, and likewise when the U.S.A.P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act was passed. in the age of modern international relations and global culture, events and policy decisions in one nation rapidly ripple outward to other nations, especially as the U.K. & the U.S. are purportedly the leaders of the "free world."
Italy isn't a global leader or superpower, but their cultural & political attitudes can still spread to their international peers. and all it takes is for one so-called democratic society to shift towards a reactionary/oppressive state unopposed to start a positive feedback loop, where each nation's own step towards fascism becomes justification for increasingly draconian policies in another nation.
I do think it's a lot to do with wanting to go somewhere. I've grown up in New Zealand which is a small country (~4 million people) about as far from everywhere else in the world as it's possible to get. The average salary is probably at best half the average of most places in the USA once you do the conversions. This is fine if you're staying here because cost-of-living tends to be less, but it makes travelling hard.
All of that aside, it's very common for young people here to go overseas for a year or two, either as soon as they leave school or after they graduate. It's usually to Europe because there's a perception of so much variation in such a small space, but I've known people who've gone all over the place, and there's a lot of support for helping people to figure out where they're going, how to get there and how to support themselves.
Money's usually an issue, but we're fortunate enough that NZ has arrangements with other countries to let young people have working holiday visas under certain conditions, and people will often make the money in the country they're planning to spend it while they see the place. Some people will leave here without much more than a return ticket and enough money for the first few weeks while job-hunting. We also get lots of people from European countries visiting NZ, as well as the occasional Americans. And then after a year or three of travelling around and seeing places, people tend to come back home and they tend to be better for it. Some people stay where they are because they like it more.
If you don't grow up in a culture where it's normal for people to simply figure out how to get out of the place they started, though, I can see why it'd be difficult.
First rule of Godwin's law, Don't talk about Godwin's law.
You failed!
What do you try to accomplish by spreading politically meaningless statements(it's still a democratic country, you know)? The government has no say in this. And do you know that Italian law is not common law-like?
A CC-licensed illustrated horror novel
Google should have known not to dishonor Fredo Corleone's long lost son.
Airplane Photos, Airline News, Planespotting Guides
Also, I forgot to mention that my penis is tiny, scabby, and only aroused by Richard Simmons videos...
-Taylor
Sorry i am in a hurry and i don't have time to log in...
I'm Italian and I can state that in Italy defamation is frequently used to threaten people.
Once I was in Cortina where a guy dented my 10 year old car. So I used a four letter word. The guy threatened me over filing defamation charges. So I took advantage of this in my way and covered him with much more defamation. His wife was thoroughly embarrassed and I was highly amused. The dent wasn't actually noticeable and I took this in my speed-of-light assessment of the situation.
Another time I was walking in Siena where a local woman scared the hell out of me by honking just behind me in a narrow street. This time I told the woman to go to Fanculo (vafanculo) which means she should do a file system check on herself. Again the defamation threatening started. I was in polite company -and I should not have told the woman to go fsck herself- and decided not to pursue my personal pleasure. Still the bitch followed me and insisted on pressing charges. Having arrived at a restaurant I encouraged her to get the cops while I would thoroughly enjoy my meal. After our 1.5+ hour lunch the coward cretin still didn't show up. I was a bit relieved but mostly disappointed.
If something happens and you want less hassle in Italy you should remain polite. Italians invented bureaucracy and are skilled in giving you a hard time over nothing. Make contact and make friends and everything is forgotten. We Italians are plain cowards...
Why would the British make jokes about us walking backwards?
But, "we" make Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Maseratis and every now and then a decent Alfa Romea. So we're more than even with the world around us.
I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
Indeed, the post you replied to was greatly exaggerated: the italian government will not censor youtube.
What is happening is that the parliament is planning legislation [italian language] to stop youtube from infringing copyright by hosting clips of tv shows recorded from the head of the government’s private tv networks.
Yet, it is to be noted that democratically elected members of senate [italian language] belonging to the currently ruling party, and even the head of the government himself, are often heard praising fascism, which, as we know, was quite far from democracy.
And just for precision’s sake, even if Italy’s legal system is not based on common law, precedents do have importance, and a well-behaving judge will not ignore them.
Hey... I didn't write that!
This is Berlusconi's Italy we are talking about, after all...okay, how large does the bribe have to be, and who does it have to be given to??
Except I don't think it was the Google employee's fault that the video was there and I don't think they made the video, they only had to take it down which they did. I remember this story when it first popped up quite a while ago but, in true /. fashion, I haven't actually RTFA yet or at least not this particular one.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
If you're going to go that far then you might as well include "HammerTime."
Bugger posting AC. Karma is now officially fuel for amusement purposes. I have it so I get to spend it for silly posts. ;)
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
The notion of precedence existed as early as in Roman Law, it just doesn't have the same specific meaning as it does under the common law system(s).
I don't know much about Italian law, but precedence is alive and well in European Community law as well as European Convention of Human Rights case law from the ECHR, both of which are binding to Italian courts.
Distasteful video, no...more like physical abuse on a handicapped.
He threw a cleanex box at him...thrown the right way, I can really damage you...so you want me to be able to throw boxes at you, why stop there....the person who filmed this video, did not care to interfere and should get some consequence, as well, this might trigger him giving up his friend who actually did commit the crime.
Its called a hate crime (however minor) and involves physical abuse...how about i come by your house and violate your mother or father in front of you and post it on YouTube, I am sure your tune would change then....always with the attitude "well if it doesn't happen to me, then why should I care"
Distasteful video, no...more like physical abuse on a handicapped.
He threw a cleanex box at him...thrown the right way, I can really damage you...so you want me to be able to throw boxes at you, why stop there....the person who filmed this video, did not care to interfere and should get some consequence, as well, this might trigger him giving up his friend who actually did commit the crime.
Its called a hate crime (however minor) and involves physical abuse...how about i come by your house and violate your mother or father in front of you and post it on YouTube, I am sure your tune would change then....always with the attitude "well if it doesn't happen to me, then why should I care"
Whoa, calm down there, as i said in a comment below:
Or for assaulting a kid with Down syndrome...
Yeah, sorry, i misread the article. I was thinking it was more of a playful thing that was just distasteful, not a harassment/assault thing.
-Taylor
I was thinking it was some kids playing around in a non-violent way, and it was getting blown out of proportion. I didn't realize it was more than that, i don't support hate crimes!
-Taylor
Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?