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VMware Promises Multiple OSs On One Cellphone

superglaze writes to tell us that VMware has announced a large effort behind their Mobile Virtualization Platform, promising the possibility of multiple operating systems on mobile devices. "The company described MVP as a 'thin layer of software' that will be embedded in handsets and 'be optimized to run efficiently on low-power-consuming and memory-constrained mobile phones.' Asked whether MVP would offer something different from the abstraction already provided by mobile Java, VMware's European product director Fredrik Sjostedt told ZDNet UK that MVP would require less recoding. 'If you want to have an application run on a Java-specific appliance, you need to code it for Java,' Sjostedt said. 'What we're introducing with MVP is an [embedded] abstraction layer below that, between the physical hardware and the software layer.'"

22 of 90 comments (clear)

  1. All I Can Say Is It's About Bloody Time by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Funny

    VMWare Promises Multiple OSs On One Cellphone

    Just the other day I was having problems getting World of Warcraft working in Windows Mobile on my Heier Black Pearl Micro while at the same time using VMWare to host a wiki on a completely secure LAMP stack. Seriously guys, it's 2008--we've defeated our greatest fear (the polar bear) and we've elected an African American president--so why are cell phones still in the stone age? Is it really too much to ask for me to be able to play my favorite game and host some simple PHP pages while driving down the highway accepting incoming phone calls?

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:All I Can Say Is It's About Bloody Time by nysus · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you RTFA, it's not for end users but for vendors so they can easily roll out different platforms on different phones.

      --

      ---Technology will liberate us if it doesn't enslave us first.

    2. Re:All I Can Say Is It's About Bloody Time by girlintraining · · Score: 2, Funny

      Maybe some people like their cell phones to make phone calls without needing a reboot every few days, or being loaded up with a gigabyte of software in memory who's only purpose is to look in the mirror and say "Who's a pretty girl? I'm a pretty girl! Who's a pretty girl..."

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    3. Re:All I Can Say Is It's About Bloody Time by tripdizzle · · Score: 2, Informative
      --
      "A claim for equality of material position can be met only by a government with totalitarian powers." Hayek
    4. Re:All I Can Say Is It's About Bloody Time by Bearhouse · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why they would want they do that? Increasingly, the handset suppliers are seeing the device software as being part of their value-add, brand differentiation and protection.

      They don't want M$, Google Android or FOSS. Think iPhone.

      Sounds like needless complexity on devices already challenged by small form factor, (memeory, battery lifre, CPU power...)

      The only thing that could temp me would be security - open email (and attachments) in a VM wihout risking crashing - or infecting - my phone, which I also might be using for GPS navigation - hmmmm..

    5. Re:All I Can Say Is It's About Bloody Time by HBI · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wouldn't it be easier to just write an emulator for the smartphone CPU architecture to run on x86?

      --
      HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    6. Re:All I Can Say Is It's About Bloody Time by hockpatooie · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yo dawg, I heard you like smartphones so I put a VM on your smartphone so you can smartphone while you smartphone.

    7. Re:All I Can Say Is It's About Bloody Time by barzok · · Score: 2, Informative

      Increasingly, the handset suppliers are seeing the device software as being part of their value-add, brand differentiation and protection.

      Outside the US, anyway.

      Inside the US, it matters not what the handset maker's software can do. Verizon cripples them all and puts their own shitware & UI on them.

  2. Why? by internerdj · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Fine. My cell has a crappy OS, but I don't think it will be better if I jam a second or third crappy OS onto it.

    1. Re:Why? by Sneftel · · Score: 3, Funny

      Q: There are too many platforms. What should I do?
      A: Make another platform!

      --
      The opinions stated herein do not necessarily represent those of anybody at all. Deal with it.
  3. Samsung? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I saw a demo by Samsung a while back of their ARM port of Xen running multiple operating systems on a mobile phone. Not sure what the status of the technology is now, but they had some pretty nice ideas with the driver model and were talking about live-migrating your VM from your phone to your TV when you got home.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    1. Re:Samsung? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Because your next generation TV will have a quad-core 1GHz ARM CPU. You can use it as a general purpose computer and then migrate your VM to your phone when you leave.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  4. Another one.... by Kaptain+Kruton · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I suspect this is yet another project in which a company asked, "can we do it?" without asking, "should we do it?" I doubt much of a market exists for users that want to run more than one OS on a cell phone. Also, abstraction layer the company and article speak of sounds similar to the Java virtual machine, but on a slightly lower level. I am not very familiar with complex mobile devices, but can see very little benefit in creating another layer of abstraction at a lower level to simply allow quicker development of programs, when developers can already do that with Java if they want programs portable amongst devices.

    1. Re:Another one.... by Comatose51 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The idea behind a VM isn't simply to run multiple OSes. That's just one benefit. Imagine behind able to transfer the entire state of your machine between different physical hardware. VMware can already do this with x86 machines with VMotion. How they're looking for possible wider applications. How about being able to transfer everything on your old phone to a new phone? Or how about backing up everything on the phone somewhere? Or if you work in IT for a large company, wouldn't it be nice for your users if the loaner Blackberry can be customized and always stay the same for the user no matter which physical device is assigned? Don't forget how limited the Internet's applications were when it was first started. Innovation can happen when we apply old ideas to new areas.

      --
      EvilCON - Made Famous by /.
    2. Re:Another one.... by BitZtream · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A lower level abastraction layer below the java VM ... you mean like the OS itself?

      All this VM stuff is becoming truely silly. Its really the OSes job to do all this crap, but since all the OS people can't get together in a sane manner, we have people making hardware virtualization to accomplish what the OS should be doing already.

      All we're going to do is end up with a VMWare OS(Or Xen, KVM, virtual iron, insert your favorite here, sorry I don't remember it), and another second level OS running on top of it. (*BSD, Linux, Solaris, Windows whatever).

      This whole thing is just silly and completely redundant, not just on mobile phones but on standard PCs and servers.

      We don't need a VM to get our jobs done, we need all the OS people to understand that we want common interfaces to code against, kinda like what POSIX sorta wanted to be but really wasn't.

      The OS is supposed to be our hardware abstraction layer, not a hypervisor that does hardware abstraction so our OS can do hardware abstraction so our apps can not no anything about the multiple levels of hardware abstraction.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  5. Will customers really want this ? (i.e. carriers) by neurocutie · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Aside from the obvious technical hurtles (underpowered CPUs, insufficient memory, insufficient flash ROM to store multiple OSs, few user-installable mobile OSs with device-specific "plug'n'play" support, etc), there would seem to be one glaring obstacle... the carriers.

    Lest anyone forget, the true customers for mobile devices are not individual consumers, but the carriers. And it is going to be a long time, if ever, before that will change. Indeed recent trends continue, if not increase, the extent of device-carrier lock-in, although often in more subtle ways that simply a software lock. The biggest trend is non-interoperable data services, either via authentication protocols that are carrier-specific, or simply spectrum differences (e.g. Tmobile's 3G bands are different than AT&T's or European 3G bands, even though all are considered "GSM").

    So given this, why exactly would a carrier be interested in provide its customers with the ability to run multiple OSs on their mobile devices. And it is far more complicated from a technical and licensing standpoint than on a generic PC. Mobile OSs are not licensed by individual customers, and they are totally not set up to be installed on arbitrary mobile hardware. For example, a Palm 700p and a 700w are almost the same hardware, but it is not possible and no one has even tried to put PalmOS from the 700p on a 700w, or vice versa, WinMo from the 700w to a 700p. The only notable efforts in this vein are attempts to port Android to HTC WinMo devices (with marginal but possible future success). However that is only possible because Android is open source. And there is not obvious benefit to the carrier for doing this...

    Indeed carriers, particularly Verizon (but all of them) generally try to restrict and remove features intrinsic to OEM devices (e.g. phone as modem features, WiFi, MMS, app suites like Pocket Office), in order to limit the individual customer's capabilities and force the carriers customers into specific "business models" for services (e.g. pay extra for phone as model, pay for data instead of free Wifi, etc). The freedom to run multiple OSs would necessarily give individual customers to circumvent these artificial, deliberate carrier-imposed restrictions -- something the carriers obviously would not want.

    All in all sounds like a huge amount of work required with little upside for the real customers, i.e. the carriers. Until the wireless networks are truly "open access", with the power of device choice in the hands of consumers, not the carriers, the effort of multiple OSs seems doomed to failure...

  6. Virtualization is the future, esp for desktop by CPE1704TKS · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It might be that you guys don't understand the benefits, but now that cell phones become part of the virtualization game, it really means that you can extend things almost anywhere. Think about what happened when the Internet moved out to cell phones, people are instantly connected to everything they want. They can communicate, etc from anywhere in the world.

    If you can virtualize your desktop onto your cell phone, think about the possibilities. You're working at your desk and then you need to go on a trip to a different country. You "download" your desktop onto your cell phone/iPhone or whatever, and then you can keep working, and even maintain network connectivity. By the time this becomes mainstream, I'm sure cell phones will have multi-GHz equivalent chips with 20+ gb storage. Then, when you get to the hotel, you connect up your cell phone to the hotel's docking system with monitor and keyboard, etc.

    You keep working, and then when you get back to the office, just transfer your virtual machine back onto your desktop. Or, if you want, just keep working from your cell phone.

    Who knows what the possibilities will be, but this seems to be the point. Processors aren't getting much faster, guys, and the applications that need them have pretty much ended. I'm still using my 1 GHz laptop from 2004 without skipping a beat, and I don't imagine things needing much more than this for the next 5 years. I'm sure within a few years the cell phones will be more powerful than this.

    1. Re:Virtualization is the future, esp for desktop by blincoln · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You are using "virtualize" in the marketing sense. There is no good reason to virtualize the entire OS of a desktop machine just so that you can copy your documents and preferences to a cellphone and back. That's not using a sledgehammer instead of a flyswatter. It's building a fleet of space-tugs, sending them to the asteroid belt to bring back asteroids, and then dropping those asteroids from orbit onto the flies.

      --
      "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
    2. Re:Virtualization is the future, esp for desktop by CPE1704TKS · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, you get it, you're being far too small-minded about this. You have this single concept of what virtualization should be, and you're wrong because you can't see what it could bring in the future.

      It's not about copying your documents back and forth. The entire interaction between you and your computer totally changes. Why exactly do I care where my desktop is running as long as I have access to it. Do I really want to copy my documents back and forth onto a single USB drive? Yeah, that's how we do it right now, but why even bother? Why not just have a single copy of my "desktop" and move it around from location to location. Who knows, maybe the cell phone will be the desktop in the future, and you just switch form factors depending on where you are or what you want to do. Virtualization is the first step to this, creating a homogeneous environment.

      Look at the difference between having your POP3 client vs having all your mail on Gmail. Would you consider that the same as dropping asteroids onto a fly? With a POP3 client, you need to copy around all your mail files whenever you want to move around, you need to know the specific server settings, etc. I know this because my mother-in-law came over last month and needed me to set up her POP3 client for her because it didn't work here. If she used Gmail, things would "just work". Same thing goes with virtualization, you can copy your documents around, but maybe the computer you're using doesn't have the same set up. Maybe the versions of MS Word are different, etc.

      Moving this concept out to cell phones is the next step, just like it was for email. I think it will take another 5 years, but I'm sure it's on its way. People will probably be docking their iPhones at work to download the desktop, working from home from their home docking station, etc.

  7. Re:Will customers really want this ? (i.e. carrier by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Perhaps in the United States. In most of Europe all the phones are not subsidized by the carriers, are paid by the customers and are unlocked.

    Data, networks, frequencies. They are all standard and can be connected to with any phone on the market.

  8. Re:Will customers really want this ? (i.e. carrier by FourthAge · · Score: 3, Insightful

    why exactly would a carrier be interested in provide its customers with the ability to run multiple OSs on their mobile devices. And it is far more complicated from a technical and licensing standpoint than on a generic PC.

    Maybe because it makes licensing simpler!

    Suppose you want your phone to run Linux, and you'd like the users to be able to install their own kernels and whatever other software they want, but you need to stop them messing with the GSM/3G stack in order to satisfy the FCC and the carrier. How do you do it? Answer: use virtualisation to split the software environment into two parts - "secure" and "open". Now your users get what they want (open software environment), and so do the carriers (some parts are still locked down).

    This is cheaper than the other way to solve the problem (using two separate computers). It also uses less energy. Even if a company doesn't care about Linux, they might still want to run complex consumer applications on their phones, requiring strong separation of privileges that are hard to assure in a large consumer OS kernel. x86 Windows XP on a phone? With a CPU like Intel Atom, hypervisor-level security and "PC on a chip" hardware, why not?

    There's enough reason to do this that all the mobile phone companies are involved with it in some way. Somebody mentioned a Xen version of this VMware system, and there's a port of L4 being made for this purpose as well.

    --
    The tao of democracy: the government you can vote for is not the real government.
  9. VMware's vClient initiative by ErMaC · · Score: 3, Informative

    For those of you thinking that this is a solution in search of a problem, let me outline where VMware is going with this.
    At VMworld this year, Paul Maritz (VMware CEO) outlined their strategy for the future of the desktop - a world where users are given access to applications and data regardless of the end device. Today we see desktops as more device-centric, rather than people centric. VDI (Virtual Desktop Infrastructure) is a step in the direction of device-independence. It doesn't matter if I'm at work, at home, or on the road, I can get to the same desktop, applications, and data.
    But going forward VMware is looking at delivering the entire desktop steamed down as a VM to a "client hypervisor", so instead of viewing as it runs remotely in a datacenter, the data is streamed down and processed locally so there's no lag induced by a high-latency link or something like that.
    This works great for ordinary PCs or x86-based thin clients. Where VMware is going is taking their hypervisor layer and moving it to the mobile device, so that a user can get their same desktop (or a subset of its functionality) even from their PDA/smartphone. That's the purpose of this technology long term - it's not so you can run Android in a VM on your iPhone.

    --
    "I want to get more into theory, because everything works in theory." -John Cash