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Debian Running On the T-Mobile G1
chrb writes "Following hot on the heels of the G1 root exploit, Jay Freeman now has Debian ARM running on the G1. The RC30 update has fixed the root hole, but with utilities and images already available to replace the flash image with your own signed code, it looks like the manufacturer-hacker arms race is on."
i.e., to enable hackers to experiment and thereby improve the platform further.
They closed the hole because it was a pretty emberassing bug. But would there be an arms race?
I thought the whole point of the G1 was that it was an open platform. Why on earth is there a "manufacturer-hacker arms race"?
Just because it runs Debian doesn't necessarily mean it can do much else. I don't think they can get on a cell network right now, for example. So if you decide to flash it with Debian you have yourself a really expensive handheld computer with a touchscreen and wifi. Woohoo. There' other options out there for that.
I'm the Devil the Windows users warned you about.
There isn't, it's BS, and none of the blogs seem to get is. So far as we can tell, google only fixed the root exploit
The root exploit is unrelated to the ability to flash the ROM. The question then is, will there be attempts made to stop user flashing of updates to the device...
I do not think there will be, it's just that Android fixes should not be confused with openness of the device itself.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
...you get Vista to boot on it.
It's a damn shame and should probably even be a crime that manufacturers at the whim of the telcos (all of whom have bribed their way to gaining an unfair government enforced monopoly on communications) go around trying to make it hard for people to install what they like ON THEIR OWN DEVICE.
but with utilities and images already available to replace the flash image with your own signed code, it looks like the manufacturer-hacker arms race is on."
For what it may be worth, there's a page set up with succinct instructions for flashing the modded RC-30 that preserves root.
Also, for those who have RC19 or RC29 and simply want to delay/avoid an over-the-air (OTA) update, there are also instructions for a simple change that will keep the RC30 from installing in the first place. This will not address the root bug however, so typing CR-reboot-CR will for example still restart your phone.
If you don't at least take measures to prevent the OTA update, the firmware may be updated automatically, even if you manually reject it.
W
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This is my SIG. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
I hope (but doubt) that google will get this message, but it's worth a try... emailing direcly is hopeless. :)
if you want to pay me for this idea, feel free to email me at tcdoeNOSPAM@tcdoe.com (remove nospam)
it must be understood that due to security issues, fully 'opening' the android system is probably impossible.
however, i'm sure that you geniuses at google can figure out that hackers will ALWAYS defeat hardware.
therefore, the android should be made completely open, but here's my idea:
open all access to the hardware and OS installation. BUT also create a series of PAID competitions for the 'best' hacks. this will push the hackers out of the closet, and at the same time provide an endless supply of innovation for the product. MOST hackers are concerned mainly with 'creds'... i.e. showing off.
what about security? well, IMHO there must be some way to enforce a non-bypassable 'MAC address' style signature for the unit. by opening all the hardware except for this 'mac address', you will focus all clandestine efforts on hacking this single function.
good idea huh
.
Poor Goog, having all of it's painstakingly ported Java standards ignored in favor of a native operating system installation.
So let me get this straight?
Google G1 / Android / HTC / TMobile have been telling us this is going to be an open platform.
Someone already "broke" the phone (which isn't a problem on an open platform)
Someone is already working on getting unsigned code working? I thought it was an open platform?
Manu / Hacker arms race? Why? Isn't this an open platform?
Sounds to me like its just about as open as the IPhone, and a few early adoption idiots where taken for a ride.
Very much happy with my Windows Mobile HTC Wizard. And, I don't have to go to anyones "repository" or "app store" to purchase things, nor do I have to worry about MS telling me what I can and cant run on my phone (I know, the albatross IS the last part of that statement).
IOW, Good job, Google. You've turned into everything you detested.
NEXT!
--Toll_Free
Aaaahhhh, now I know I'm home.
Uhm, have you read the article at all? You can just reflash the firmware with your own build.
One needs to be aware of where the money is made. The actual phone manufacturer makes money by selling a locked version to a telecom, the telecom makes money by selling the phone and the phone service to retail clients.
If you get a free phone with a low monthly service charge and then you hack it, you could make expensive calls over IP and pay the telecom, nothing more than the monthly rent.
Thus the telecom needs the phone to be locked to make (more) money and the manufacturer has to lock the phone in order to please the telecom, who is, after all, its client.
I don't care what the telecom needs. God did not grant them the right to profit from any specific buisness-model. I never have, and never will, own a locked phone, it's as simple as that. All phones I have owned could be used on any GSM network with a prepaid card. And if some telco was dumb enough to subsidize me buying it, well, thanks for the freebies.
I know, what we are talking here is a different meaning for the word "locked". Most phones I have owned were primitive enough that running arbitrary software on them was not a big issue in practice.
Now it is starting to be one. It is sad if the linux-based android is less open than my win mobile smartphone (where I can currently install anything I want).
This is one reason why I fully support the GPLv3. If linux had been GPLv3, android would have to give you root access to your device (or let you modify it to get it), unless the device was actually owned by the telco (which not all users would accept).
The whole "it's your phone you can do what you want with it" paradigm comes from *free software, not an "open source" software.
As for "shut up and show them the code" this G1 is a great example.
"Look, we're an open platform! Look at the code, isn't it neat! Don't TOUCH it!!!"
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
Ehm, no, you can't.
Absolutely right, there.
You can get the source to Android, you just can't do anything useful with it. Most of the really interesting things you could do with a device like this, you actually can't, due to lack of root (some pretty normal stuff requires root on this phone).
For most intents and purposes, it is as closed as the iPhone, with Symbian and Windows Mobile being the "open" platforms in terms of what you can and cannot do on the devices. Only real difference with iPhone is that you can run un-approved apps.
I'm scratching my head here on why you would want an Android device. If you want a shiny interface, go iPhone. You want to hack to your hearts content, OpenMoko. Corporate stuff, BlackBerry. Mucking about with anything you want, Symbian and Windows Mobile.
I talked to some Google engineers and the thing that stuck to me is one of them said "its just a phone". With that attitude, Android is never going to be anything. If I want "just a phone", I'll dig up me old Nokia 3310. Another one is them saying root is a security issue, because all sort of malware could happen - really, I still have to run into the first virus etc for WM - but it's not a security risk to store your data on an external company's servers? I don't know about you, but I have no reason to trust Google with this data, and several not to.
I'm severely disappointed with the "open"-ness of the phone in question.
"Google G1 / Android / HTC / TMobile have been telling us this is going to be an open platform."
It is, to some extent. The source is open and you can install whatever you like.
"Someone already "broke" the phone (which isn't a problem on an open platform)"
Yeah, google broke it. For some reason (poor QA) they left a terminal running under the GUI, at root, and getting all the keystrokes.
"Someone is already working on getting unsigned code working? I thought it was an open platform?"
There are two parts to this. you don't need java apps signed. BUT there's no officially sanctioned API for non-java apps. Maybe someone's working on that.
"Manu / Hacker arms race? Why? Isn't this an open platform?"
Nope, the hole (mentioned above) was a stupid QA problem, someone left debug mode on :)
"IOW, Good job, Google. You've turned into everything you detested."
Nah, you've just misread the situation.
"ou can get the source to Android, you just can't do anything useful with it."
You can run it on a nokia N800 or N810, or a neo freerunner. People are porting it to other devices. It's also useful for people to work out how it functions and write decent applications. You can also write your own apps and they don't have to be signed or approved by anyone.
Totally not like iPhone.
Also, the interface is pretty shiny.
Duetch Telecom OWNS the device.
You only pay for it to rent it while you use it, and then pay a monthly fee for network access on top of that.
And this is open, how?
Across Deutschland's southern frontier, you arrive in Switzerland.
Here in Switzerland, you DO NOT rent the phone. You own IT, because you paid it. Simply if you happen to buy the phone while signing a new deal or prolonging an old one, the phone provider you picked up will give you a set rebate (base on the plan you signed for) that you can use for buying the phone of your choosing.
That's it, that's all. The phone IS NOT locked. The phone IS NOT branded. The phone doesn't have any non-stock software in it (because very probably you didn't buy it at the phone company's shop but at some random mall).
The phone is yours to use it in which ever mean you like the best.
You can use it with the contract you signed up, you can use it with another SIM you obtained from a different provider or even some prepaid SIM.
You can even give away the phone as a present to your girlfriend (have been doing that several time).
The only restriction :
- You signed for an X months contract. (Either 12 or 24).
- For the duration of the contract you pay the monthly fee.
- If you decide to cancel the contact, you'll have to re-imburse part of the rebate you recieved (proportional to how early you cancel).
- But you keep the phone anyway. It's yours (or your girlfriend's).
Why is that so hard to do in Germany or in the USA ?
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Wrong, you can install from the web - download an .apk directly from the browser on the device and install it. You can also push it using the android toolkit from your computer. Nothing like the iPhone when it comes to apps, as far as building apps the possibilities are endless.
You can even push your own updates, pretty much flash the entire device just using the Android Tool Kit, people are down-grading to RC29 where they had root access now, try that on an iPhone.