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16 Interviews With Linux Kernel Hackers
DeviceGuru writes "The Linux Foundation has published a series of video interviews from the annual Linux Kernel Summit held Sept. 15-16 in Portland, Oregon. In the videos, 16 developers — including Linux creator Linus Torvalds — discuss their kernel development activities. Other kernel hackers interviewed include Rafael Wysocki, Chris Mason, Greg Kroah-Hartman, Mathieu Desnoyers, Paul Mackerras, John Linville, Stephen Rothwell, Kristen Accardi, Dirk Hohndel, Dave Jones, David Miller, Len Brown, Jon Corbet, Frank Eigler, and Ted Tso. A detailed report on the Summit can be found at LWN. Lots of interesting insights into the status and future of Linux!"
Wake up and smell the coffee!
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1. No fecking media support! I get XMMS inform me on first attempt at playing an MP3 that it won't because of licensing conflict. Wtf? Codecs for avi's and DVDs were a simular story; all had to be downloaded via yum (bloody excellent tool!). Seriously; not good, but fixed in the end.
Licensing restrictions.
2. Why the hell do I have to install a new kernel? Why? I've never had to on Windows - why is Linux different? Is it so buggy? I installed with a factory version something ending 054. Now I have something ending 122 I believe. I did it ok, but that's not the point I'm making; were there really 68 cock-ups so great in the kernel build from release-time until that now they had to re-release 68 times? I'm guessing probablly not, but still.
This one I can't answer. You normally don't need to upgrade kernels unless there is a driver that's supported in newer kernels that you need, or a serious bug/security fix. I rarely upgrade my kernels, and then only to support new hardware.
And by the way, you are occasionally upgrading the Windows kernel, even though it doesn't come right out and say it.
3. Point 2 also breaks my nvidia drivers. I don't want to re-compile new drivers everytime there's a new 'patch'. For the love of god, why?!
You've never had to upgrade video drivers after patching Windows? Not usually on the smaller patches, but going from SP1 to SP2 or even going from 2000 to XP can cause that problem. Upgrading the kernel is a major update to the OS.
4. X-Windows. What a mess. Why do I have to tell it my x & y refresh rates for my monitor? Windows just 'knows'. Many more things here I feel that X-Windows should just 'know' - the number of buttons on my USB mouse for-instance. If Windows can do it, there's no reason why Linux can't. Also, X-Windows 'feels' slower than Windows. I'm sure there's good reasons for this, but I don't care; Windows is snappier.
For the timing, that's really odd, unless you have an ancient monitor. You shouldn't have to do that any more. For the speed, X-Windows is known to be fairly large and bloated, but I've never felt it's any slower than XP on the same machine. And, depending on the WM you use, it can be faster.
5. Lack of decent file-browser. The best I've come across is Nautilus in a mode that resembles Windows Explorer. It'll do for now, but as far as I'm aware, offers no context-sensitive menus for applications (like the Winamp "Play in Winamp" right-click menu on folders.
You didn't mention what WM you were using, but KDE's file browser is quite decent and has context links set up (as long as the distribution you tried has them set up).
Actually, I think that's largely it. In all, Linux has, and is continuing to be great fun to play with. So many cool tools - yum being one of them. I'll stick to Linux @ home; it can only get better, but I'd be interested to know what people think of the above points - any suggestions maybe? I want this to work after all...
There's a learning curve for Linux, that's certainly true. But I've been much happier with my Linux systems than Windows; as I was saying to someone else the other day, once I get it set up, a Linux system runs forever. If there are security updates I'll do those (and unless it's in the kernel, you don't even have to reboot), or if I get new hardware that's not supported in the current kernel, I'll update, but otherwise it's fine without my intervention.
My experience with Windows, on the other hand, is that I have to do some constant maintenance to it, usually just rebooting (usually after annoying dialog boxes that keep coming back) but sometimes more, such as recently when my laptop's hard drive started thrashing for no discernible reason under XP (ccleaner fixed the problem, whatever it was). In another example, someone the other day was suggesting I download each SP
YHBT. HAND.
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22My+Linux+Annoyances+as+a+Hardended+Windows+user%22&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=sfM&filter=0
I had but a simple dream, to destroy all humans.
Guys, the fact that he mentions XMMS, a program defunct for years now, suggests he's trolling.
Well, (1) there are distros with binary-blob drivers included. The problem is that these are proprietary, meaning people who want a "politically-correct" system could not use it. It's, as you say, a small hassle. I hope it changes in the future. (2) is because, although Microsoft releases kernel patches regularly, this is "invisible" to you as an end-user. Linux just releases the new kernel as a stable release at given intervals, instead of dropping patches. (3) No idea, but sounds really bad. I run ubuntu, and the package management has always kept everything in compatible version lock-step. (4) Windows has the graphics built into the kernel, instead of having it as a userspace program. Thus, it *is* snappier. X is a bloated legacy program that just happens to work very well for it's age. (5) Try konqueror, the KDE desktop file browser. It's the best desktop-integrated file browser as far as i'm aware, and it supports smb, sftp, etc., natively. I wish you good luck.
1. No fecking media support! I get XMMS inform me on first attempt at playing an MP3 that it won't because of licensing conflict.
Why dont the distros use the Fluendo's mp3-plugin. Its Open Source, free, license/patent-fee-free. Am I missing something, any insights about this?
For the one who are not aware of it - http://www.fluendo.com/resources/fluendo_mp3.php :
Any distribution or Unix maker out there who want to include the Fluendo MP3 plug-in with their distribution can do so by just signing a contract with Fluendo to become an official redistributor. This contract includes no monetary compensation to Fluendo for getting the right to redistribute the Fluendo MP3 plug-in and no demands of additional purchases from Fluendo. The main purpose of the contract is to satisfy our upstream contractual requirements. By signing this contract any distribution can support mp3 out of the box without any additional license fee. Take a look at the example contract and contact us at info@fluendo.com for details.
"My Linux Annoyances as a Hardended Windows user"
Are there text versions of the interviews available, too?
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Why dont the distros use the Fluendo's mp3-plugin. Its Open Source, free, license/patent-fee-free. Am I missing something, any insights about this?
$ apt-cache search fluendo
flumotion - Fluendo Streaming Server - manager, worker and admin
gstreamer0.10-fluendo-mp3 - Fluendo mp3 decoder GStreamer plugin
gstreamer0.10-fluendo-mpegdemux - Fluendo GStreamer plugin for MPEG2 demuxing
Its in Ubuntu as a gsteamer plugin. That limits its usefulness if your media apps aren't built using gstreamer libs, and there's quite a few of those.
I have made the switch to Linux (Fedora Core 5)
Your trolling is out of date.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
1. No fecking media support! I get XMMS inform me on first attempt at playing an MP3 that it won't because of licensing conflict. Wtf? Codecs for avi's and DVDs were a simular story; all had to be downloaded via yum (bloody excellent tool!). Seriously; not good, but fixed in the end.
See this page to understand why these things are not included by default. Essentially you are either complaining that you aren't getting something for free that requires royalties (or you don't agree with the current laws making the use of these technologies without paying royalties illegal). =) This is why many people try to use and promote the use of non-restricted formats.
2. Why the hell do I have to install a new kernel? Why? I've never had to on Windows - why is Linux different? Is it so buggy? I installed with a factory version something ending 054. Now I have something ending 122 I believe. I did it ok, but that's not the point I'm making; were there really 68 cock-ups so great in the kernel build from release-time until that now they had to re-release 68 times? I'm guessing probablly not, but still.
All software has bugs. =) I don't think you're ever *forced* to upgrade your Linux kernel, but it's generally a good idea to keep up with minor updates to reduce security vulnerabilities and such. Are you sure you've never upgraded your Windows kernel? You've never ran Windows updates? I think you just don't know that you have. You're effectively complaining that Linux is more transparent about what it's doing. That's a good thing!
3. Point 2 also breaks my nvidia drivers. I don't want to re-compile new drivers everytime there's a new 'patch'. For the love of god, why?!
I'm not sure I understand this one... nvidia's drivers are closed, so you can't actually compile new drivers each time. If nvidia doesn't support the kernel you want to upgrade to, you are at their mercy, and I don't use nvidia cards for this reason, but I thought that nvidia generally kept up with the latest stable kernel versions. I assume you just had to add an external yum repository (like Livna)? Does Fedora not take care of upgrading the nvidia driver for you automatically then?
4. X-Windows. What a mess. Why do I have to tell it my x & y refresh rates for my monitor? Windows just 'knows'. Many more things here I feel that X-Windows should just 'know' - the number of buttons on my USB mouse for-instance. If Windows can do it, there's no reason why Linux can't. Also, X-Windows 'feels' slower than Windows. I'm sure there's good reasons for this, but I don't care; Windows is snappier.
I agree with you that X is still behind in a lot of ways. There's a reason why Apple didn't use it when developing OS X. It's development had stagnated for a while, but it's been picking up steam again, so we'll see...
5. Lack of decent file-browser. The best I've come across is Nautilus in a mode that resembles Windows Explorer. It'll do for now, but as far as I'm aware, offers no context-sensitive menus for applications (like the Winamp "Play in Winamp" right-click menu on folders.
Yes won't argue with you there either, I think there's still a lot of room for improvement on the desktop side of things for Linux.
I had no idea! I'm using xmms at this very moment (Music for Airports.) You don't suppose it will stop working do you, you know, being defunct and all?
His first point is the really funny one, because at least some versions of Vista also force you to download codecs - AIUI due to an EU anti-trust ruling.
D'oh. I wondered but went forward anyway. Thanks. I'm always amazed that people really have nothing better to do than troll forums.
GUI file-browsers are for chumps. /Real/ *nix guys just use a terminal and a mixture of the sysutils.
:)
It's faster that way, really. If you don't believe me, try it for a while -- you'll see. A few weeks getting comfortable with doing everything in a terminal, and when you go back to a GUI you'll wonder what the heck you were ever thinking.
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On the other hand, if you live in a country where the patents apply, or if you are a distribution maker who sells your distribution in countries where the patents apply, then you need the licensed binary from Fluendo. This of course is no problem, but be aware that even if our binary is made from MIT licensed source code the resulting binary combined with our license is not free software, at least not GPL-compatible. This means that if you ship GStreamer with our binary mp3 plug-in, you need to be sure that you don't ship any GPL-licensed plug-ins that could end up being used together with the mp3 plug-in, as this would violate the GPL. And you don't want to violate the GPL. You also need to make sure you don't ship any GPL-licensed players which would use this plug-in.
If you are referring to this Slashdot post, http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=196726&cid=16119284 for some reason point number 1) doesn't apply on my Debian by using Debian Multimedia repositories, nowadays in 2) and 3) doesn't apply because at least in Debian there is separate package for Nvidia drivers and standard kernel includes everything else, in 4) my xorg.conf doesn't include any information about monitor refresh rates or something else (the monitor section is actually 3 lines) and everything is detected correctly, so only 5) might have some validity.
It's still good to keep reminding people that there's another recent meaning though. Reading a computer book from just 20 years ago could otherwise make you think the Hackers back then were criminals.
Agreed, but since Linux has got the "unix guys" user base pretty covered by now, why not focus on the people who will never, ever, ever use command line. For example, those second rate .Net/PHP clickee-click web programmers.
oh shit, you'd better go tell the guys that run http://hackaday.com/ . Thanks dude, I had no idea!
Um, one of them would appear to be in possession of such,
Heck, even real Windows guys use a cmd.exe window and a mixture of Microsoft and Sysinternals(now MS) utils.
It's amusing to see how many of these ancient cut-and-pasted complaints are no longer valid.
Still an issue to some extent, but it's always been an issue on Windows as well (Windows didn't come with DVD support until Vista!). Modern distros provide easy ways to install the codecs, including ways to buy codecs that are legal in the USA; or you can pay for a distro that includes them.
On modern distros this is completely transparent.
On modern distros the recompilation is automatic and transparent.
On modern distros, X configures itself.
Come back when Windows gets one, and we'll talk. ;)
Happily for modern civilization, the guys at hackaday.com - whatever the hell that is -- don't get much of a vote regarding what meanings of what words make it into the vernacular. When the guys at nytimes.com and OED.com reverse the meaning of "hacker" back to its hobbyist definition, give me a call...
The OS that runs the majority of websites is "relatively obscure" and not a popular hacker target? Ri-i-i-ight.
"Gay" still does mean "merry". Feel free to tell a Scotsman that "the Gay Gordons" is only danced by homosexuals. I'll be sure to visit you in hospital to find out how he took the news.
Newsflash: some words have multiple meanings, and humans are actually quite good at distinguishing between them. Ambiguity is more likely to lead to comedy than to confusion.
It's still good to keep reminding people that there's another recent meaning though.
I guess. I still don't think it would be sensible to title an article about, say, a jovial developers' seminar as "Gay Time Had at Linux Confab."
There comes a time when you just have to let a word go...
Who cares what the mainstream usage is? Slashdot is not a mainstream website. It is targeted at nerds, and it uses words with the meanings nerds give them. There is no ambiguity going on here. "Kernel hackers" is the correct terminology for Slashdot's target audience.
Perhaps you should report O'Reilly to the police, as clearly you must believe they are selling a whole range of books aimed at criminals.
Did anyone else here have their eardrums destroyed after turning the volume up to 11 to hear Linus mumble and that music starts blasting at the end? I think I'm bleeding now.
Just disrupt the deflector shield with a tachyon burst.
This troll should be modded funny IMHO. That might cause casual /. lurkers wonder what it is that is funny in the post. Someone might do some research, god forbid.
not a looker in the bunch.
Almost certainly not. There might be a fix for critical security hole that could actually affect you, but almost always, a recommendation to upgrade only means that the geeks are eager to show off all the cool new features they have since integrated. (In commercial software, their enthusiasm would me moderated by a marketing team.) Normally, you upgrade your kernel only to support new hardware that didn't exist when your old kernel was written.
I know this is a nice and positive use of the word "hacker" but aren't they really "developers"?
... or am I being too pedantic?
"Linux Hackers", at least of the Black Hat veriety, conjures up images of people who change the Linux Kernel to include features like key-logging and undetectable remote login...
I guess we could call them Linux Hackers of the White Hat variety, but then the "hacker" part still implies that they are outsideres who are making changes to someone else's code. It sounds like these guys are the original developers, and not hackers
My favorite quote doesn't fit into 120 characters. Now no one will like me.
The source may be available, but it isn't GPL-compatible and isn't necessarily patent free. Fee free is not patent free.
You've never had to upgrade video drivers after patching Windows? Not usually on the smaller patches, but going from SP1 to SP2 or even going from 2000 to XP can cause that problem.
Installing a new operating system (XP is not 2000) doesn't really count as "patching".
Oh, and don't feed the troll.
This is it, I have had enough, I can read about 100 times faster than I can make sense of rambeling audio. Whichever marketing-droid thinks unprepared semi-monologues can substitute for well thought out papers needs to fail his MBA, and be drummed out of the community in ignominy.
... 5 seconds
The only place for this is good lectures, think Hawking, Richard_Feynman and short bio bits, eg I am Linus, this is Tove and thats the dog
The recent Obama campaign shows that audio-visual clips can be very good, with expensive speach writers, tele-prompters and good producers, this takes lots of preparaton and money but all pointing a cam at an un-prepared speaker results in is sad junk.
Windows 2000 is Windows NT 5.0, and Windows XP is Windows NT 5.1...
Now, the kernel isn't the only thing that's different between the two, obviously, but since we are talking about kernel upgrades...
You've never had to upgrade video drivers after patching Windows?
I've never had to upgrade video drivers when applying a "Service Pack" or regular updates. My video driver updates were driven by either game wonkyness or OS "upgrades". YMMV, of course.
Having said that, the Linux kernel team (rightly, IMO) goes out of their way to encourage folks to get their drivers in-kernel.
WRT constant Windows tweaking:
I used to have to do that sort of thing.
Then two things happened.
1) I acquired Win 2K3 from school.
2) I only ever use Windows for video games and Linux for everything else.
I'm not sure which one is more effective, but I have a feeling that #2 is the most helpful.
WRT that "Slipstreaming" bullshit:
Jesus fucking christ. I run Gentoo. *Those* guys are masochists.
Fedora Core 5 and XMMS should have clued you in that it was copied from an old post.
I love how the first result on that page is your comment with a link to those results.
My mind just exploded.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
It wasn't my bluff, and he gave a serious answer (thus the +5).
However, the subtlety of the troll in its near-legitimacy is what makes it great.
I had but a simple dream, to destroy all humans.
Because whether or not you sign a contract with Fluendo, it's still illegal to distribute Fluendo (or ANY other MP3 codec/decoder) in the US, UK and EU and other patent-encumbered countries without paying Fraunhofer. Since most people (with a computer) live in the US, UK or the EU or the developers are based there, it will remain illegal unless someone wants to pony up ~$11/installation. There are linux distro's (commercial) that provide MP3 support out of the box.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Yea but he is right in this context most humans wouldn't be able to distinguish them. Maybe most here but in general anything about hackers is thought of as the black hat kind.
Perhaps you should report O'Reilly to the police, as clearly you must believe they are selling a whole range of books aimed at criminals.
A lot of hackers ARE criminals, depending on your definition...
>For example, those second rate .Net/PHP clickee-click web programmers.
I thought they all worked in McDonald's these days?
Open Source Drum Kit, LPLC deve board - mjhdesigns.com
I have made the switch to Linux (Fedora Core 5)
Your trolling is out of date.
Aye. Fedora 10 comes out in 9 days.
Meh, I don't use Fedora, so I have no idea what version they are on, nor do I really care. I was using XMMS until fairly recently, I only switched when I got around to installing Slackware 12.0, sometime early this year. Now I have Slack 12.1 sitting here, but haven't installed it on anything yet...
Installing a new operating system (XP is not 2000) doesn't really count as "patching".
I agree, but my point was that upgrading the kernel is quite a bit more than simply patching something - it's (usually) less than an OS upgrade but more than a patch. Some extra work when you upgrade such a major component shouldn't be unexpected.
Good points and agree with you, except on #3. One answer to this problem is at least one packaging format being adopted by the most common package managers. This way, if there were one or more widely used cross-distro packaging standards/formats, Nvidia could release that instead of a binary installer which will ultimately always be stupider because it's impossible to know all the silly changes and naming schemes and everything that every different distro uses. That's why the creation of a good packaging API/standard/format or updating the current formats that exist to make them be integratable into the common managers is the ideal solution.
Using yum or apt-get to upgrade my close source driver directly from the manufacturer's web site and the developers that made it, and same with open source ones directly from the developers of those, and for any and all my software that I choose because I shouldn't have to use a silly third-party distro-dependent repository, now that would be a great Linux feature. Sourceforge and other sources would be my repository of choice.
P.S., yes, I know you can have repositories that aren't from the distro, but they are still proprietary. Creating huge stacks of programs and calling it a "distro" is not the solution for achieving program interoperability, it only achieves distro lock-in. Open source freedom principals should reject distro lock-in in all forms and help to push for interoperability standards and wide spread adoption/compatibility of formats.
Promote true freedom - support standards and interoperability.
I guess it's sad then that xmms is still the best mp3 player I can find and I've tried many. Amarok, kaffeine etc. might have more features but xmms provides all essential functionality in a very compact, easy-to-use form and xmms-kde gives you the controls in an even more compact and convenient form. And then there are so many useful plugins for xmms. The sound enhancing and leveling plugins are extremely good (and crossfade, which is the only effect people universally accept, echo etc. is fun to test but not very useful). The lirc plugin (type song names on a remote like you type an sms - except faster) is simply fantastic.
Ummm..., yahoo.com runs freebsd. *ducks*
I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
omg this is the funniest comment I've read in a while, gonna post this on that comment website, whatever it is.
I have been using Win XPx64 for 3 years now. I honestly have to say that I only needed to reinstall when I changed my HDD. I also ran Linux in parallel, which crashed more times then my XP OS. I like Linux, mostly because of it's reliability when it comes to server usage, but I have stopped bashing Windows XP since I got on the XPx64 wagon. I will continue to bash Microsoft because of their policies, but I believe that as a desktop machine, a XPx64 will perform just as well if not better then Linux on the same hardware, and with out of the box config (I am comparing Ubuntu, and will stick to the user friendly parallels when comparing)
Absolutely. I wish I had mod points.
"My Linux Annoyances as a Hardended Windows user"
Interesting, that typo of yours results in google only returning me several links to THIS slashdot article.
That links shows only one result, this selfsame article. The correction from google is my linux annoyances as a hardened windows user