Slashdot Mirror
Why the Widening Gender Gap In Computer Science?
ruheling writes "From yesterday's New York Times: ' What Has Driven Women Out of Computer Science?' In many US universities, over the past decade, there has been deliberate effort to integrate and encourage women and girls to get more involved in the 'hard' sciences, engineering, and math. However, instead of the proportion of women to men increasing, in Computer Science the opposite is actually true. Specifically, in 2001-2, only 28 percent of all undergraduate degrees in computer science went to women. Now many computer science departments report that women now make up less than 10 percent of the newest undergraduates. What's going on here, folks?"
Actually, from today's Boston Globe: Hunt is on for more men to lead classrooms.
"Flag on the moon. How did it get there?"
Unfortunately, the article mentions that in the 80s, female enrollment in CS was closer to parity with males. Something has changed since then and I doubt it's biological.
Ah the oft toted argument.
Problem is that even with infants only a few weeks old, if you test their attention span for different stimula then you'll find that little girls tend to be more interested in faces and will pay attention to them longer and little boys will tend to be more interested in things and pay attention to them longer.
Children are not empty vessels, sure you can beat them into the shape with enough force applied but not everything is due to outside influence.
Men would be stupid to take a job in elementary education, all it takes is one kid saying that you "touched them" to ruin your life.
Yes you have actually missed something actually.
America, just like England or any country across the Atlantic, has subsets of culture.
The "fast food, celebrity [tabloid obsession], gas guzzling cars, and guns, [and god]" you speak of is the working class America. Especially southern and mid-western working class America. I believe in England this type of person would be called a scally or a chav.
The primarily middle class area in the west where I live is heavily populated by an entirely other subset of Americans that are educated, peace loving, atheist/agnostic, socialist minded, and environmentally conscious.
While we may not be wasting our congress persons time with debates on fox hunting, we are wasting their time with debates on flag burning.
The UK and America aren't all that different.
Scotland by the way is one of the most beautiful places I've ever been. I look forward to returning someday. The food in Scotland has a lot in common with the American south (where the fattest Americans are) lard is not a seasoning, no matter how much the American South and Scotland may wish it so.
The Generation
I'd say something witty here, but I'm not that bright.
My wife and I have been married for 31 years. We met in college. She was a civil engineering major, I was a computer science major. She later changed her major to mechanical engineering when she learned that ME's are more widely employable than CEs. When we met she was a freshman and I was a senior.
I went on to get a masters degree, she took the classes for a master degree but spent the time she would have spent on a thesis getting ready for, and passing, the P.E. exam. She has had her stamp for a long time.
We are both now in out fifties. She gets calls several times a year offering her jobs. Some in the private sector, some in the public sector. People value her decades of experience. People look up to MEs with decades of experience and a professional certification.
I was laid off for the last time on my 49th birthday and have not been able to find a technical job since. It is hard to find a company that will believe that I actually have the experience I have. I can't tell you how many times I have had an interview where I have been challenged on my experience and even though I can prove every bit of it people just don't believe it. And, don't get me started on certification for computer people, compared to getting a PE certification in the computer world isn't even a bad joke. It is mostly just a con.
I went back to school and "retrained" as a teacher and I am now certified to teach CS in public schools and I work part time teaching people how to use a mouse. I haven't been able to find a full time teaching job because their aren't many of those and the competition for them is fierce. You see, I live in Austin, Texas and for about 10 years this is where IBM transfered entire divisions before they laid them off. There are literally thousands of people my age with my qualifications wandering around down here (we used to have a morning walking club just for laid of 50+ software developers) and they all did the work of getting certified to teach in the Texas public schools. I got the job I had when the lady who had it before me got a full time teaching job. My application had been on file for more than a year. I moved from a job that was even more part time to one that is almost half time. A major step up!
When my wife graduated from high school she took the ACT. She compared her ACT scores to the average ACT scores of different majors and the average starting salary in those majors. Engineering had the highest starting salary and most closely matched here ACT scores. I went into computer science after taking a class in it and falling in love with it.
I have come to learn that I am pretty typical of a guy who goes into computer science. Most of us do it because we really really like it. Some do it for the money but those guys don't stay in it for long. I have also come to learn that my wife is pretty typical of women who go into technical subjects. They do it because it is a good way to make a living and you can do some really interesting stuff too.
Now, lets see some of the differences between being a "software engineer" and a real engineer. My wife has been laid off once, I have been laid off twice. Until I turned 49 (I'm now 56) I made 20% to 40% more than she did. She now makes 250% more than I do. I have done thousands of hours of involuntary unpaid overtime. She has always either been paid for, or received comp time for, all the overtime she has ever done. And, while it is common for programmers to be told to get something done by Tuesday or else, that has never happened to her. Working conditions that are normal for programmers are practically unheard of for engineers.
Women tend to be more practical than men when it comes to picking a career. Being more practical they will google for information about salaries, work hours, working conditions and so on, *before* picking a major. If you want to have a job for the rest of your life, and work 40 hours per week most of the time, and be respected at work and in the community, you do not study computer science. At least
After wading through the postings, it is obvious to me that if the posters that identified themselves as male are a representative sample of guy geeks, then no wonder women are avoiding CS. With a few exceptions (and thank you for those) the postings have been simplistic and essentialize males and females in ways that make it obvious that the posters have never studied or can't remember any sociology or psychology. I am female and I worked as a licensed mechanic for 30 years and although I surely loved the work, it was guys like you that finally drove me out. There were not enough neutral ones to counterbalance the others. Another thing to consider is that women do talk to each other and every negative experience usually gets discussed. Decisions about careers are made in context and not in isolation.