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IRS Looking at Google/Mozilla Relationship

ric482 writes "With the release of the Mozilla Foundation's 2007 financial report, questions have been raised by the IRS, who are due to perform an audit on the non-profit organization behind the massively popular Firefox browser. Last year, the Foundation received $66 million of its total $75 million revenue (88 percent) from search engine maestros Google, so the IRS are looking for blood over the organization's tax exempt status. Back in 2006, Mozilla got $59.5 million from Google — around 85 percent of the organization's revenue. Google and Mozilla are part of a 'you scratch my back, I'll pay your bills' sort of agreement, with the Google search bar firmly placed in the toolbar, and on the default homepage. Things were a bit rocky a couple of months back when Google unveiled the Beta-run of its Chrome browser, but Mozilla and Google hugged it out and sealed a deal that will last for another three years. That deal will expire in November 2011."

22 of 261 comments (clear)

  1. Blame Microsoft by plover · · Score: 4, Funny

    Why not blame Microsoft? Maybe they filed a complaint with the IRS.

    Unleash the conspiracy theories!

    --
    John
    1. Re:Blame Microsoft by pipatron · · Score: 4, Insightful

      but that's OK because it's the same company?

      Exactly. The issue here is that Mozilla Foundation is a non-profit organization, but Google clearly is not. Presumably IRS could be interested in exactly how close ties they have.

      --
      c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
    2. Re:Blame Microsoft by Richard_at_work · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I seem to remember that after a new IE7 install, I get asked if I want to switch search engine providers (among a whole load of preferences on first use) - but I don't get asked the same after a new FireFox install...

    3. Re:Blame Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      > Why is it that Firefox has been out since my
      > early college days

      Because you're very young.

    4. Re:Blame Microsoft by confused+one · · Score: 4, Funny

      Why is it that Firefox has been out since my early college days

      Why you young whipper snapper. I remember when Lynx and Mosaic first came out. When pages were all TEXT. And we LIKED it.

      For that matter, I remember computers before any of this fancy "graphics" stuff was common. Before X. Before the Mac. Before Windows.

      *grumble* firefox *grumble* young people *grumble

    5. Re:Blame Microsoft by fugue · · Score: 5, Funny

      Exactly. The issue here is that Mozilla Foundation is a non-profit organization, but Google clearly is not. Presumably IRS could be interested in exactly how close ties they have.

      Yeah, but doesn't Google qualify for tax-exempt status as a religious organisation?

      --
      "The biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place."
    6. Re:Blame Microsoft by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yeah, but doesn't Google qualify for tax-exempt status as a religious organisation?

      I believe you are thinking about Apple.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  2. Google search bar? by drapeau06 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My version of Firefox just has a regular "search bar" that defaults to Google.
    If I want another search, e.g., AbeBooks.com, I just change it to that. Does it become an "AbeBooks.com search bar" then?

  3. Link? by VisualD · · Score: 5, Insightful
  4. nothing wrong with corp. support for OpenSource by AlphaZeta · · Score: 4, Insightful

    To me, there shouldn't be much a fuss about big corporates supporting open source. In fact, I think there should be more involvement (financially) for those big companies who no doubt have benefited from the open source community. As long as the licensing remains open source, everything is transparent...

    1. Re:nothing wrong with corp. support for OpenSource by LordNimon · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The problem I have with it is that there are thousands of bugs opened against Firefox, Seamonkey, Thunderbird, etc that have been open for years that don't get addressed because there aren't enough developers. The Mozilla foundation should be using those millions of dollars to hire programmers (especially in this economy) to fix those bugs and add those long sought-after features. The last thing they should be doing is investing in the stock market!!!!!!!!!

      --
      And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
      To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
  5. Soooo by zifferent · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They give away the browser and spend all of their revenue on development. So, how much taxable profit did the Mozilla foundation make anyway? The IRS has nothing to gain from this. I smell a rat closeby!

    --
    cat sig > /dev/null
    1. Re:Soooo by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Or... They are just doing their job and investigating possible suspicious activities. If Microsoft did the same thing you would be all up in arms on how Microsoft is trying get out of paying more taxes. But Google with Mozilla, that has to be different. Innocent until proven guilty, they are investigating it as it looks fishy but that is.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:Soooo by Jellybob · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I've never really wondered that. The OEMs are buying Windows licenses in batches of several thousand, on a regular basis.

      It's standard business practice to give discounts to customers who provide you with a large, regular, income.

  6. Why go after Mozilla? by Andr+T. · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...and not after some other fictional 'non-profit' organizations?

    --

    Any life is made up of a single moment, the moment in which a man finds out, once and for all, who he is.

    1. Re:Why go after Mozilla? by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 5, Funny

      Damn, I was hoping that'd be a link to the wikipedia page for wikipedia.

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
  7. Re:What makes Mozilla different? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 5, Informative

    Actually, having done bookkeeping for a 501(c)3 on a voluntary basis, I can say that there really aren't that many differences. Basically, a 501(c)3 is required to followed GAP accounting methods -- just as any other IRS-recognized corporation. They have to donate a certain minimum percentage of their annual income to charity. And they have to show that they are organized for the purposes which a 501(c)3 may be organized. Since a 501(c)3 is basically a 'miscellaneous charity status' with the IRS, this means pretty much anything that benefits the community or the greater good, except politics -- they can't directly or indirectly support a particular candidate or ballot initiative. (How non-profits often get around this is by saying "We don't endorse a particular candidate, but many of our members say they are voting for X." )

    The important thing that IRS will be looking for is this: Is Mozilla money co-mingling with Google money? Are they keeping it separate? DOes it look like Mozilla is just a front for Google? And so forth. They'll do that by auditing the books, piling through receipts and conducting interviews with appropriate personnel. Mozilla as a non-profit can, believe it or not, sell almost anything. Selling things is not at all illegal for non-profit and actually 'making a profit' is not illegal -- the profit just has to go into a specific fund set aside for purposes that Mozilla is organized for. Such as, in this case, funding Firefox and Thunderbird development.

  8. Re:What makes Mozilla different? by owlnation · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If they're a non-profit entity, there are a different set of rules that must be obeyed.

    Generally speaking -- and I'm not specifically accusing Mozilla -- non-profit status is rarely what it seems. Usually the motivation in setting this status up is to avoid certain rules or taxes. It's only proper that this is investigated in Mozilla's case, if most of their income does come from a large highly-successful company.

    The IRS should also be taking a very, very close look at Wikipedia. For those reasons, and also the fact that there have been individuals in that organization that have shady financial histories.

  9. Basically by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Wow, that's a pretty slanted writeup by ric482...

    Back in 2005, before the Mozilla Corporation was created as a for-profit organization, the deal with Google went through the Mozilla Foundation. There was worry that the income derived then would need to be reviewed by the IRS (a large part of the reason the Mozilla Corporation was created in the first place). Mozilla set aside a large part of that income in case that happened and the IRS would end up disagreeing with the status of that income.

    The review of that income is basically happening now (and the IRS is probably also looking at what happened since).

    Mitchell says it like this:

    In 2005 the Mozilla Foundation established a "tax reserve fund" for a portion of the revenue the Foundation received that year from Google. We did this in case the IRS (the "Internal Revenue Service," the US national tax agency) decided to review the tax status of these funds. This turns out to have been beneficial, as the IRS has decided to review this issue and the Mozilla Foundation. We are early in the process and do not yet have a good feel for how long this will take or the overall scope of what will be involved.

    (Lots of other interesting information in that blog entry, too.)

  10. Re:Solution to the economic crisis by Arthur+B. · · Score: 4, Funny

    If it moves tax it.
    If it still moves, tax it more.
    If it's stopped moving, subsidize it.

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    \u262D = \u5350
  11. Where's the smoke? by Dare+nMc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Since Google is a profitable entity isn't this tax neutral to google? IE if Google and mozilla merged, and Google spent the same amount on development, and giving as mozilla does, google would have the same profit, and thus pay the same taxes. The only difference would be some of the last 15% (non google contributions.) Since individuals can write off gifts to Mozilla foundation, but not to google then that's the money the IRS is chasing, not googles portion of the pie.

  12. Stop the Debian Bullshit by CritterNYC · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Honestly, stop with the Debian bullshit already. Mozilla doesn't want others altering their software and still keeping their trademarks intact (which is what Debian wants to do). Debian places the *EXACT* same restrictions on their own trademarks.