New iPhone Apps Help Drivers Beat Speed Traps

Ponca City, We love you writes "Two mobile applications, NMobile and Trapster, are providing drivers with up-to-date maps of speed-enforcement zones with live police traps, speed cameras or red-light cameras. Each application pulls up a map pinpointing the locations of speed traps within driving distance and an audio alert will sound as vehicles approach an area tagged as harboring a speed trap. Both applications rely on the wisdom of the crowds for their data with users reporting camera-rigged stop lights and areas heavily populated with radar-toting police officers via the iPhone or their web-based application, creating the ultimate speed trap repository available to you when you need it most — while you're driving. To thwart false alarms and eliminate inaccuracies, Trapster enlists its community of nearly 200,000 members to rank speed traps on their accuracy. NMobile founder Shannon Atkinson declined to provide detailed data, though he did estimate that 'well over 1,000' users had downloaded the application since it became available last week. The company insists they've received only positive feedback from law enforcement officials and police officers regarding their products. 'If the application gets people to slow down, I think it's generally considered to be a good thing,' said Atkinson."

Comments

Illegal Tool

[nurb432]

When tools are banned.. oh, nevermind...

Too Many Traps

[iamhigh]

The problem I have seen with most attempts to list speed traps, is that eventually damn near every street in a city, or every few miles on a highway could end up on there.

But maybe it will result in some speeders slowing down all the time.

Re:Too Many Traps

[TheRealMindChild]

This is just a misunderstanding of the system. Truly, a cop can grab you for speeding anywhere. However, a system like this should be for "speed traps". That is, a consistent place where cameras/cops can almost always expect to be found. I possibly might even take it a step further and classify a speed trap to be a place where you would never think of being nailed, like when the speed limit drops from 55 to 35 at the bottom of a 70 degree slope.

Re:Too Many Traps

[sakdoctor]

1. Teflon coat a slope
2. Lower speed limit on said slope
3. Speed camera at the bottom
4. Profit!

Re:Too Many Traps

[Anonymous Coward]

You joke, but many Southern (USA) small towns are full of things like this. The speed limit may be 70 on a highway, but as it enters one of these towns it will drop suddenly to 30 or 35, often around a curve with little warning.

The small-town cops collect money from travelers but don't ticket locals. It really is a sort of highway robbery.

Re:Too Many Traps

[repvik]

Not that I support the tactics, but you should be driving so that you are prepared for anything around the next corner, be it a speed limit drop or a mad cow.

Re:Too Many Traps

[Ethanol-fueled]

Agreed, it's how the smaller towns make their money. Good luck fighting the tickets in their court!

In my city, a big one in Southern California, I've seen plenty of "speed traps" but I've never see one twice in the same place.

As far as cameras are concerned, they're almost always at intersections and people shouldn't be speeding through those anyway! By the way driving while viewing a cell phone is illegal here even though everybody still does it.

Re:Too Many Traps

[WillDraven]

While I agree that you should be prepared for anything that may be obstructing the roadway, that white sign halfway hidden behind a bush as you turn a corner is exactly where your attention should NOT be. If you're having to look away from your vehicles path of travel while making a turn and then rapidly decelerate, you're being dangerously distracted from the much more important task of making sure you're not going to run into anything.

The original purpose of speed limits was to protect people on and around the roadways. Then someone got the bright idea to regulate them to try and reduce fuel consumption. Now they've become so perverted that they seem to only exist in many places as a revenue source for local towns, and in causing drivers to spend more time looking at signs on the side of the road and their speedometer, they actually cause the roads to be LESS safe.

Re:Too Many Traps

[xaxa]

While I agree that you should be prepared for anything that may be obstructing the roadway, that white sign halfway hidden behind a bush as you turn a corner is exactly where your attention should NOT be.

In the UK they've recently (last few years) been painting speed restrictions in less-expected places (like on the approach to a small village along a fast, empty road) like this directly on the road. No need to look away. (another picture). It also reduces sign clutter.

Re:Too Many Traps

[AmberBlackCat]

All they have to do is make the speed trap locations expire in 24 hours. As people drive past the speed traps, they can stop texting and report the speed trap. Then the next day, if the speed trap is still there it will get reported again. If they really want this to work, they should make it so you can report a speed trap in 1 tap of your iPod screen and it uses GPS data to report the location about 1 block behind you.

Re:Too Many Traps

[canadian_right]

Were I live the cops call the local tv and radio stations so the stations can ANNOUNCE where speed traps are. The cops don't do this everyday or every time, but mainly when they are doing a big driver safety campaign.

All traffic fines go into general revenue for the Province so there is no incentive for speed traps meant to just collect fines. Most speed traps go up where there are a lot of accidents, or the locals complain about too many cars speeding. Most rush hour radio traffic reports include any speed traps reported by drivers, and I've never heard of there being more than 2 or 3. This is in a city of about 1.5 million.

Re:Too Many Traps

[canadian_right]

Our highways have signs warning of up coming speed changes. It is unsafe to suddenly change speed on a highway. Isn't there a similar requirement on USA highways?

Re:Too Many Traps

[Free the Cowards]

You should always be in a position to where you can make a crash stop and come to a halt before hitting anything beyond the current range of your vision. However, a speed limit sign does not merit a crash stop! I should not have to slam on my brakes, cause undue wear and tear to my vehicle, and in traffic risk people behind me not being as prepared as I am to brake just because some small town enjoys fleecing people for speeding fines.

Re:Too Many Traps

[hairyfeet]

Bingo! a real speed trap is where the cops have rigged the game to drum up revenue, and is usually associated with a small popcorn fart of a town nearby. A good example I have ran afoul of is heading from LR to Memphis on the old highway system. You'll run across a speed trap set up halfway through the trip in a little town called Wiener,which is a fitting name because the cops there are dicks. They have it drop from 55 to 25 in about a block, maybe a block and a half, and where the 25MPH sign is placed you won't see it unless you know it is there.

Of course you could fight it, but who is going to drive that distance to try to argue with a judge who gets his salary from that sign? But a national map with all those real speedtraps listed would be a great idea. Might help with asshatery like the town I listed above.

Re:Too Many Traps

[Cor-cor]

Obviously isn't helping improve driving skills much. The second bloke's on the wrong side of the road!

Re:Too Many Traps

[plantman-the-womb-st]

On state non-restricted access highways there is no such requirement, and the speed limit can be determined by the local municipality. It's not uncommon at all to be driving along at 55mph and see a sign that says speed limit 25. And according to most state's laws, the speed limit is in effect not at the point in the road where the sign *is* but at the point where it is visible. Yes, many small towns (population a few hundred or less) in rural America use this as their sole source of municipal income.

Re:Too Many Traps

[Harold Halloway]

From the many feature films I've seen, the small-town cops in the Deep South don't actually collect any money from travellers. Rather they prefer to kidnap/rape/bugger/squeal/play banjos at/murder the travellers.

More driver distraction

[clang_jangle]

Like the streets aren't dangerous enough without every iPhone user fiddling with their toy trying to "beat the system" while piloting a two ton juggernaut on public streets.

Re:More driver distraction

[MilesTails]

Like the streets aren't dangerous enough without every iPhone user fiddling with their toy trying to "beat the system" while piloting a two ton juggernaut on public streets.

Yeah because speech alerts are really distracting. Did you even read the articles?

Re:More driver distraction

[Jeff DeMaagd]

Did you even read the articles?

Evidently, you are new here.

Re:More driver distraction

[clang_jangle]

Yeah because speech alerts are really distracting. Did you even read the articles?

I really did actually, and I noticed that voice alerts are a feature. However, voice alerts != voice control. And I've seen plenty of people start plotting their trip several minutes after they leave the house while driving.

Re:More driver distraction

[larry bagina]

let's see you read the article while trying to first post while piloting a 2 ton juggernaut on public streets while mixing another jack and coke.

Re:More driver distraction

[coolsnowmen]

But this has nothing to do with planning a trip. GPS puts you on a map without you telling it ahead of time. When you are close to a reported speed trap, it tells you. That is no different than any other auditory clue. There is no control needed.

Re:More driver distraction

[noidentity]

Like the streets aren't dangerous enough without every iPhone user fiddling with their toy trying to "beat the system" while piloting a two ton juggernaut on public streets.

Yeah because speech alerts are really distracting. Did you even read the articles?

This guy was probably posting from his iPhone while driving, and skipped the article for safety reasons.

breaker breaker

[Anonymous Coward]

damn you, iphone. now you've gone and made the CB obsolete

Ha

[clarkkent09]

'If the application gets people to slow down, I think it's generally considered to be a good thing,' said Atkinson."

Isn't the whole idea of this app to allow people slow down just before the speed trap? If they drive slowly all the time then they don't care about speed traps in the first place

Re:Ha

[zappepcs]

There is an ancillary benefit. While what you say seems on face value to be true, anything that gets drivers to pay more attention to the road and traffic on it will increase safety. Even if that attention is somewhat fleeting, it will help. Public service minded police do not mind as long as you do slow down. There are those that want to catch you to fill the bank account with booty from fines, but for the most part people and police just want safe roads.

Re:Ha

[MMC Monster]

Actually, what will happen is that people will drive faster when the phone says they are not near a speed trap.

Re:Ha

[Erikderzweite]

As this application is trust-based it can be used (by police too) to slow down speeders at close to no cost -- no need of moving expensive equipment around or purchasing extra speed traps, just mark some streets on the map.

Radio stations did something similar before

[Anonymous Coward]

Back in the 90s in one of the Baltic countries, some radio stations let drivers phone in location of speed traps.

Of course, soon enough the law caught up with that and reporting of police locations because illegal.

However, that didn't phase the station operators a bit. They just requested that people report location of individuals in blue uniforms, using cars with bright flashing lights and shooting microwave radiation at passing cars. No mention was "police" or "speed trap" or anything specific was allowed.

Re:Radio stations did something similar before

[Unordained]

Driving within the speed limits saves on gas too.
Please see previous /. discussion: Fuel efficiency and slow driving?

Revenue stream

[Xistenz99_2000]

I am sure that there are some that want people to slow down at the speed traps, however speed traps are intended to collect revenue for the city that they are in. Traffic tickets are one of the easy ways an officer can collect 140 dollars within 15 minutes for the city and supply his paycheck without doing any hard work.

it works both ways, so look at the bottom line

[v1]

'If the application gets people to slow down, I think it's generally considered to be a good thing,' said Atkinson

It gets them to slow down when there's a speed trap because they want to avoid the high probability of a ticket.

BUT, it also gives them the confidence to speed more when they don't believe there's a speed trap.

So it works both ways: It helps increase the "deterrent factor" of the speed traps, but lowers the overall effectiveness of discouraging speeding in general, in the process.

In the end it's probably about a wash for changing the amount of speeding going on. The only thing that's changing is the money that was going to speeding tickets is now going to the authors of the app. And of course since that's what's really important isn't it, we've gotta put a stop to it don'cha know?

Re:Sergeant Stronginthearm says...

[Macthorpe]

I've always assumed they mean "We can't stop you using this, so we're going to pretend it helps."

I wish people would just, you know, drive slower without having to be forced to, but I guess that's wishful thinking.

Great police tool!

[Ecuador]

Now all the police has to do is rate their actual speed traps low and catch the iPhone speeders!

I mean, I always said that Apple users would not pass a round of natural selection, this could be an example ;)

Re:Sergeant Stronginthearm says...

[larry bagina]

I just wish speed limits were designed for modern cars and modern traffic, not increasing revenue.

Speed up

[Bezultek]

In California the problem isn't people driving too fast, it's people driving too slow. By all means, slow down when the conditions merit it. But why must people drive stop before turning, go slow because there is an accident on the other side of the freeway, etc?

I appreciate anything that keeps the traffic moving. What we really need is an app to disable the speed trap.

Crazy Idea

[RAMMS EIN]

``the ultimate speed trap repository available to you when you need it most while you're driving.''

Or you could just not drive so fast you would get a ticket. I know, I am totally out of touch with reality and my ideas are correspondingly crazy. But I'll happily take a few minutes extra travel time and have a relaxed ride, because I don't have to worry about law enforcement and other drivers slowing me down.

Re:Crazy Idea

[Nyeerrmm]

Unfortunately, there are situations when its not really about that... its small towns that have sudden speed drops and try to take advantage of it. Take the speed trap town I hit a couple of nights ago. The speed limit dropped from 70 to 55, I saw the sign as I was about to pass it (it was night, I didn't have my high-beams on), and began to slow down just as I passed into the zone. I didn't see the cop until I was in the middle of the town, at the proper speed limit (I think it was 35), when he turned on his lights and I noticed the car that had pulled out behind me was a cop.

He ticketed me for 15 over without any questions, no acknowledgement of the fact that I was in the process of obeying the limit, just didn't feel like slamming on the brakes, hurting my car and ruining my gas mileage. The fact that the 1-5mph over fine is $165, should be more than clear that this is not about public safety, but about trying to extract money from the people driving through. They finally put in a nicer convenience store that I was planning to stop at, not going to now... however, I think the $200 they made off the ticket is more than any loss of business the town as a whole will lose now. Also, though I don't recall exactly how the signs were arranged, I wouldn't be surprised if they set up the speed limit signs so that they were hard to see.

So yes, sometimes it is an issue of people needing to slow down, however, it isn't always... it's small towns using one of their biggest resources, the highways that go through them, to generate revenue at the expense of those traveling through.

Re:Crazy Idea

[Nyeerrmm]

I apologize, I guess I didn't make my point clearly enough. It is well within the town governments right and responsibility to set speed laws and enforce them within their city limits. My problem is when they abuse those laws for the primary purpose of revenue generation.

If the goal was public safety the officer would have noticed that I was slowing down as he clocked me, and continued to slow down to obey the speed limit of the town, respecting the laws put in place by the town in which I was a guest. While I was technically going faster than the speed limit, there's a reason why the speed limits are imposed a little outside of town, to allow people to slow down in time, and fulfill the public safety goals of those laws. It's not as though I were blazing down Main street at 70mph.

Again, I'm sorry, I never meant to imply I have no respect for the laws of a small town.

Re:Crazy Idea

[Free the Cowards]

Sometimes you can't see the town until you're practically on top of both the town and their deliberately hidden speed limit sign. You consummate asshole.

-ster

[Trillan]

The -ster suffix seems to have evolved to mean "We acknowledge at some level that this will probably get us shut down sooner or later."

Re:Integrate with in-car navigation?

[jeremyp]

That would be a fantastic idea wouldn't it.

That must be why my sat nav has had such a database of speed cameras in it for the last two years.

Re:obstructionofjustice tag?

[JamesRose]

Yes, becuase the 200metres in view of the speed trap is so much more important than the other 10 km of the driver's journey where they're flooring it because they know there's no speed cameras. This will make people speed up, not slow down. If the drivers are driving too fast they should be punished- whether there's a speed camera around or not. Now it would be completely different if schools and playgrounds and roads with blind corners were flagged because it would be DANGEROUS to go fast around them.

Bollocks to that

[JamesRose]

Locating speed cameras means people can slow down to avoid a fine and then speed up again- not slow down to be safer. If they were truly trying to help people drive safer how about "WARNING! SCHOOL AHEAD" or "WARNING HIDDEN EXIT AHEAD", no, because slowing down for a speed camera is more rewrd than slowing down and driving safely around risky areas.

Re:Sergeant Stronginthearm says...

[ColdWetDog]

I just wish speed limits were designed for modern cars and modern traffic, not increasing revenue.

Unfortunately speed limits are designed for the modern driver. You've all seen them - drivers with the attention span of a crack-addled squirrel and the reflexes of a hypothermic snail. These folks really shouldn't be going fast. In fact, they should stay in their driveway playing with all the little gizmos in the car.

Hey, this would solve a bunch of problems: Oil consumption, traffic congestion, road rage. Buying more gizmos will help the economy. In fact, everyone should go out and buy a new, shiny, gizmo-laden car.

And leave it in their driveway.

I'm calling Senator Obama right now....

Corrected title

[quattr0]

New Apps Help Drivers Beat Speed Traps for Blackberry, iPhone and Nokia N95

There you have it. Even in alphabemodel orders.

Re:Integrate with in-car navigation?

[mobby_6kl]

I was going to post exactly the same thing. The only reason this is on slashdot is that the IPHONE is involved, and so the story is automatically valid news and not a slashvertisement.

My two year old Garmin also does pretty much exactly what the OP's describing, it will show an icon and play a sound when you're approaching a speed trap. Of course, since it doesn't have any wireless capability, the listed speed traps are mostly stationary speed cameras. I'd imagine newer models would be able to update the database often enough to catch all the cops hiding behind the bushes.

In other news

[Aranykai]

Local police have found a new way to setup surprise speed traps. It stems from an application on the popular iPhone that allows drivers to avoid known speed traps. Now officers just avoid these locations and catch the drivers before or after they exit the alleged "safe zones".

Re:Sergeant Stronginthearm says...

[Aranykai]

Perhaps its our driving instruction and licensing procedures in the US that are at fault. Go look up what they have in Poland. You have to drive on a skidpad during one test even!

Re:Sergeant Stronginthearm says...

[LordKaT]

Consider the crap that the beat cops pull on a daily basis around here, no I'm not.

Pulling a U-turn when a sign clearly states otherwise, flicking your lights so you can go through a red light - then turning them off and parking at a diner for your break.

Cops here also have a bad habit of just grabbing people and their objects with no regard for the law. This has happened to me twice. The first time I explained to the cop that if he didn't release me I would be more than happy to defend myself - which got me arrested, but subsequently released - and the second time I reminded the office that I find the rough grabbing of my arms to be an aggressive act - he backed off.

I've also witnessed a cruiser fishtail a vehicle in the middle of the night, without pursuing him. No lights, no siren, nothing. The guy ran a red light, and the cop fishtailed him, THEN put his siren on. The guy in the car was arrested for failure to stop, failure to comply, and some other things. He was shocked - SHOCKED - when I showed up with a video of the event at court on behalf of the defendant.

The city dropped the case and last I heard the man is pursuing civil action.

This shit happens a lot more than is reported. Quite frankly, I think most cops need to be purged from their respective authority systems and shipped to clown college.

so, yes, when cops start obeying the law, so will I. Until then, fuck them.

Speed traps are old news anyway

[lagfest]

Stretch control is the new hotness.

On a freeway, set up ANPR cameras on all the ramps, and bust the drivers on their average speed.

And, they're stupid.

[Bozdune]

I agree, speeding tickets are a bullshit money maker 90% of the time. But think about it -- how stupid are they, using these old fashioned methods? Why not get serious and raise some real money?

I live in Massachusetts. The Mass Pike (I90) is a limited access highway with toll stations on all on/off ramps. Your time on is clocked. Your time off is clocked. By DeMoivre's Theorem, if your average speed is greater than the speed limit, you must have exceeded said speed limit at some point. So, just hand everyone a ticket as they leave the highway, if their average speed was X% higher than the posted speed limit (65) (or mail them one if they use EasyPass).

Here's a related revenue generation idea: triple the rent for all the McDonald's etc. on the I90 service plazas. Hell, open a bunch of new service plazas. People who want to speed will stop (they'll have to, unless they want a ticket). Here's another idea: for a buck, they can feed their turnpike ticket into a machine and it will tell them when it's safe to continue at the posted speed limit without getting a speeding ticket. Idiots who can't do arithmetic will be feeding dollar bills into these machines day in and day out.

Re:And, they're stupid.

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

So, just hand everyone a ticket as they leave the highway, if their average speed was X% higher than the posted speed limit (65) (or mail them one if they use EasyPass).

Which will have all kinds of unintended side-effects. Like people stopping 100 feet before the exit and waiting for 30 seconds, "just to be sure" they don't get a ticket. And people deciding they would rather take the back roads instead of the turnpike. Things like that. Depending on their specific response, as little as a handful of people per day could seriously screw up the system of commuting. And since commuting, not ticketing, is the reason for the existence of the turnpike, I don't see your ideas being particularly successful.

Re:And, they're stupid.

[iangoldby]

Here in Nottingham we have average speed cameras all the way around the ring road. As you suggest, the system is impossible to beat - you simply cannot get from one end to the other in less time than it would take at the legal speed limit, without paying a fine.

As a result, compliance is almost 100%. The system doesn't make any money. In fact it costs considerably more to administer than it brings in by fines.

I personally think this is an excellent system. The council cannot be accused of installing 'revenue cameras'. Everyone obeys the law. There are no cheats (you know, the ones who have the speed trap gadget on their dashboard and endanger everyone by slamming on the brakes at each camera, but never get caught) and everyone is equal.

Similar systems are now being introduced along motorway road works too.

And contrary to what a few other respondents suggest, nobody stops just before the exit camera '"just to be sure" they don't get a ticket', and nobody takes the back roads - they are even slower. It just works - in every respect other than making revenue for the authorities, which is how it should be.

Re:And, they're stupid.

[iangoldby]

That article from the BBC is from 2005 - three years ago when the cameras were still quite new.

Here's an article from the Times: Drivers will have no escape from new speed cameras. It's not the one from the BBC from a few months ago that I was looking for, but it makes the point. One penalty per 10000 drivers is near 100 per cent compliance in my book.

Here's another article: Speed Really Does Kill. As the article acknowledges, people don't like the evidence, but

On a section of the M1 with a contraflow system in place casualty numbers fell by half when a simple pairing of average speed cameras - the precursor to the new system - was installed.

In Nottingham, average speed cameras appear to have delivered a 53 per cent long-term reduction in deaths and serious injuries on one stretch of dual carriageway, and a 75 per cent casualty reduction on another. Data from similar projects in Northampton and South Yorkshire are even more impressive.

But for those still unconvinced, there is some consolation. Where average speed cameras have been tried, compliance is so high that the revenue to local authorities from fines is virtually nil.

In Soviet UK ...

[DrogMan]

Speed, er "safety" cameras are everywhere - but most of the time they're fixed, so there exists databases of "point of interest" to download into most GPSs. (Along with the speed the camera is set to). Even the mobile/temporary ones are usually at known locations, so they're included too. So anyone with a GPS who gets caught speeding deserves what they get... We've also had average speed cameras for a while now too - number plate recognition (ANPR). I deal with these using cruise control, but it really irritates me when people decide "OMG, what speed have I been doing..." then slow down to a crawl 250 metres before the next camera... And I'm sure that as the variable ones are video, they'll just get added to the total surveillance society we're sleepwalking into...

Re:Sergeant Stronginthearm says...

[LordKaT]

You're either reading too much into my statement, or you're a fucking moron.

I don't really understand where you think I'm executing illegal U-turns, speeding, or fishtailing other people because they run red lights. I've never stated that I did any such things, in fact I'm outright denying it right now.

But, hey, you seem to think the statement "when cops start obeying the law, so will I" is a statement of fact. If that was the case, I would've killed a few cops with a taser by now.

Just for reference - since you seem to be unable to think beyond statements - I have not, and have no desire to kill people.

Re:Sergeant Stronginthearm says...

[ColdWetDog]

Perhaps its our driving instruction and licensing procedures in the US that are at fault. Go look up what they have in Poland. You have to drive on a skidpad during one test even!

We have lots of skid pads to practice on here. We just don't bother segregating them from the rest of the roadway. More efficient that way.

Proposing a new name...

[Neodudeman]

Should be called the Pocket Akbar,

because, when it doubt, it's probably a trap.

Re:Sergeant Stronginthearm says...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm an Englishman who just took his California driving test - I literally couldn't believe how simple it was. The practical consisted of less than ten minutes driving round the block, with no maneuvers other than reversing along a kerb. At no time did I leave a 30 mph zone and parts were even 20mph. How does this in any way test the ability of person to safely handle a car? Especially in the land of the freeway?

It's been 12 years since I took my UK test, which was far more strenuous, and I understand it's been strengthened since then too.

You let 16 year olds get behind the wheel of a 2 ton death mobile with no real qualification and then wonder why things go wrong?

Having said that, after logging several thousand miles around CA, I would pick driving here over the UK any day of the week. Whilst there is the occasional moron it is nothing compared to the sheer aggression of those driving in England.

Re:Sergeant Stronginthearm says...

[LaskoVortex]

Clearly I'm the moron, because you made a statement and I assumed you actually meant what you said.

To clarify, in case its a little opaque for you--the statement "when cops start obeying the law, so will I" means that cops represent the government entity that creates laws. When cops break these laws, the government entity effectively breaks its own laws. If that government entity turns a blind eye to this law breaking, it has sacrificed any and all of its moral authority. Moral authority is the only absolute authority any law can have. When this moral authority is gone, then the populace has no absolute reason to obey any law and can and *should* break laws they disagree with or don't like. This is one of the corner stones of civil disobedience and it is an important component of democracy. So quit being righteous and try to think about the motivation about what people say.

When you see people blatantly breaking the law and you are aware of abuse by the police at the same time, you might consider whether that particular municipality has let its moral authority slip. I'm waiting for your righteous rebuttal before I provide half a dozen real world examples of this effect in action. But make sure you are very indignant and condescending when you rebut, or it won't be worth my time.

Re:Sergeant Stronginthearm says...

[LaskoVortex]

I'm challenging the idea that breaking the law is fine and dandy just because someone else does.

No, breaking the law is fine and dandy depending on who that someone else is. It makes a big, big difference. If it means that you won't pay your taxes if Joe the Plumber didn't, then that isn't fine and dandy. But if you don't want to pay your taxes when the government does not reciprocate with representation, then not paying your taxes is fine and dandy and should be expected. I hope you understand the difference. If not, I can point you to a good American history textbook. Or are you some kind of anti-American pinko commie who doesn't understand why the USA was created?

Re:Integrate with in-car navigation?

[jo_ham]

The Tom Tom One here in the UK already does this. It's not a new idea by any stretch of the imagination, but it's the first time it's been done on a phone I guess.

While the primary function of the Tom Tom is as a navigation system, it has optional extras that you can sign up for, like real-time traffic alerts that it picks up (via info texted to your phone) that allows it to automatically pick a route around blocked roads etc, and it also has a list of known speed traps that it can warn you about, including up-to-date lists that you can download over the net and upload to it via USB.

Re:Sergeant Stronginthearm says...

[KDR_11k]

When you get into an accident and didn't wear the seatbelt the damage you suffer is much greater than otherwise. If the accident is someone else's fault that someone will have to pay your much higher medical bills (or, more likely, your funeral and damages to your family). If you want an automatic no seatbelt = your fault rule you get a lot of uglyness with the reconstruction afterwards since you have to be sure who wore a seatbelt, who didn't and whose just failed to work in order to even find out who pays (and what priority that should have if e.g. the other guy was driving with 0.12% blood alcohol).

The firemen, paramedics, etc are required by law to help you, they can't just leave you to die because you're a dumb fuck who didn't wear his seatbelt. So it's not your own business no matter how much you want to claim it is and I don't think you'd want anyone to just shrug you off when you have a life-threatening injury.

This information is public in sweden

[Anonymous Coward]

Here is a site that lists all speed cameras in Sweden, you can look at a map or download a excel spreadsheet with coordinates for the cameras.

http://www.vv.se/templates/page3wide____16018.aspx

This is the site of the Swedish road administration. Not a community driven site.

Same with manual speeding controls, they are announced before on the swedish police own website. Of course most people don't know about it or even if they do, probably don't check it regularly. I certainly don't.

http://www.polisen.se/inter/nodeid=31072&pageversion=1.jsp

Won't work

[tkrotchko]

Speed cameras will gladly ticket all the drivers, and you won't realize until too late.

Re:Too Many Functionally Illiterate Posters

[geminidomino]

Ingo: Werewolf!
Fredrick: Werewolf?
Igor: There wolf.
Fredric: What?
Igor: There, wolf. There, castle.

Re:Sergeant Stronginthearm says...

[timbos]

... Go look up what they have in Poland. You have to drive on a skidpad during one test even!

On several occasions I have had the 'pleasure' of experiencing driving in Poland. I have to say that it is - without doubt - the scariest driving that I've ever seen anywhere in the US, Europe or Far East.

Everyone treats the road like a racetrack, there is a mix of really slow trucks and speeding cars, few people seemed to obey the speed limit and 'no overtaking' signs, in fact some of my colleagues were nearly mown down by someone trying to drift his car round an intersection in Krakow.

On one journey, I remember overtaking a line of trucks (I was the passenger of a Pole) and dipping into the space between two of them for a second to allow someone to pass in the opposite direction, before continuing the overtaking manoeuvre.

Re:Sergeant Stronginthearm says...

[Erikderzweite]

Another example from Germany -- drivers license is hard to get here, full education may cost up to 2000 EUR (2500 USD). Practical includes driving on the highway as well as in 30 km/h zone.

Many young people therefore fly to the USA to get their license there -- cheaper and *much* easier. From what I've heard the questions are really moronic...

Re:Sergeant Stronginthearm says...

[Free the Cowards]

Those drivers are already ignoring the speed limits anyway, so what purpose do they serve?

Around here, the speed limits on the highways are 55. (In a big city.) Whenever volume hasn't reached the point of causing a jam, the actual speeds vary anywhere from 55-60 in the far right lane to 70-80 in the far left lane. I've never seen the police actually pull anyone over. I've seen them on the side of the road with the lights flashing talking to a driver in another car, so apparently they do pull people over, but I've never seen it actually happen. I can only assume that they don't start pulling people over until past 80 miles per hour.

Given that a huge number of drivers are going 70+, and the police ignore them, what purpose does a 55MPH speed limit on these roads serve?

Re:Price of a speeding ticket?

[Free the Cowards]

Supporting a government budget on the basis of fines collected from illegal activities is reprehensible. It's an obvious conflict of interest and I'm frankly amazed that people allow it to be done at all.