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Breaking Into Games Writing?

An anonymous reader writes "One of the biggest complaints I hear from 'discerning' gamers is how few and far between well-written games are. Titles like Mass Effect and the Black Isle series just appear far too rarely. Writing and storyboarding are aspects of the industry that have always appealed to me — I'm an enthusiastic hobby gamer with a real passion for well-developed games. But there's very little guidance out there on getting exposure as a writer in this world. I'm interested in working in the field, freelance/part time initially as I break in, then with an eye to professional employ after a time. My questions to you are: How can I get involved in writing for the game industry? Are there any game startups out there with good design but weak story that could use writing help from a college graduate? How do the big guys get people to write for them — am I just going to the wrong booths at the job fairs? What kind of degrees or relevant experience in the field are they looking for? Should I just put on my Planescape t-shirt and stand outside in the rain?"

254 comments

  1. Bioware by Enderandrew · · Score: 5, Informative

    Bioware has repeatedly had contests where they've asked the community to open up the NWN toolset, write some dialogue and send it to them. The proof is in the pudding.

    And it should be noted that writing typical fiction or exposition is different from writing threaded dialogue in a game, hence that is why they ask people to submit basic mods made in their toolset.

    --
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    1. Re:Bioware by SIR_Taco · · Score: 1

      Damn, I had first post and I blew my chance to be a dick... again the reason I didn't major in History.

      --
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    2. Re:Bioware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
    3. Re:Bioware by ryanscottjones · · Score: 0

      "Bioware has repeatedly had contests"

      Not exactly a career...

    4. Re:Bioware by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 2

      Do they hire contest winners?

      The cynic in me says maybe it is just a way to sell more games to wanna be writers... a come on, like "can you draw the pirate" on a matchbook.

      --
      This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
    5. Re:Bioware by whiplashx · · Score: 5, Informative

      They have in the past, yes. (Current employee talking)

    6. Re:Bioware by Enderandrew · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, Bioware directly hires from these contests.

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    7. Re:Bioware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lol

      Yes, believe it or not Bioware is actually a Canadian company.

      and rim. and basketball was invented by a canadian. and the best hockey players come from up here.
       
      and we have normal copyright laws.

    8. Re:Bioware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      potentially but, you get credit for the game. If you get a few creds like that, you can throw them on your resume as experience.

    9. Re:Bioware by foo+fighter · · Score: 0

      The proof is in the tasting of the pudding. </pendant>

      --
      obviously no deficiencies vs. no obvious deficiencies
    10. Re:Bioware by Simon+Brooke · · Score: 3, Informative

      Bioware has repeatedly had contests where they've asked the community to open up the NWN toolset, write some dialogue and send it to them. The proof is in the pudding.

      CD Project Red (The Witcher) are doing the same thing, and my team has won two out of four stages of the current contest, come second in one stage, and ducked out of one; we're probably favourites to be overall winners. I have to admit I got involved in this competition to build up a modding team towards doing a commercial independent game, but I think that it's at present extremely difficult to break into even the indie games market, let alone the 'big' games market.

      Also, writers are not the most sought-after talent. 3D modellers are probably that - but concept art is also important. So if you're good at storyboarding, work on your 2D art skills.

      Then, find a game which you enjoy which makes it's content creation toolkit available to the community (Bioware, Bethesda, CD Projekt Red - there's a lot of buzz at present about the new Bioware toolkit which will come with Dragon Age), hang out in the forums, get a feel of which modding team has got its act most together, and talk to them.

      And it should be noted that writing typical fiction or exposition is different from writing threaded dialogue in a game, hence that is why they ask people to submit basic mods made in their toolset.

      This is absolutely true. Non-linear narratives which work for the reader/player/user/audience are very much harder to write well than linear narratives, and the more freedom you allow the player the harder it is to craft a satisfying narrative. This doesn't make it not worth doing - on the contrary, like the GPP, it is my ambition to produce a really excellent story-driven game.

      --
      I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
    11. Re:Bioware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The proof is in the pudding.

      I think you mean, The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

    12. Re:Bioware by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

      The proof is in the tasting of the pudding

      Actually the original meme "The proof is in the pudding" comes from an early use of the word "prove". Prove is also the root word of provision. A loaf of bread is "prove'd" when the dough has risen.

      Words were used ambiguously for humour back in the old days, too (ask any medievalist herald, bring a bottle of port and some patience).

      --
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    13. Re:Bioware by Tharsman · · Score: 1

      Not only that, but most companies seem to ask for experience. Crazy thing, eh? But, wait... how can you have experience without ever being on the industry?!

      Easy: MODS

      Many studios see mods as actual experience. If you manage to design, develop, and successfully put out a full mod under engine and art restrictions (it's easy to write things that are not possible,) you have shown you have what it takes to do the same under hire.

      Grab yourself a game like Oblivion or Fallout 3, pick their mod suite (Fallout 3 coming soon) and come up with something!

    14. Re:Bioware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      pick their mod suite (Fallout 3 coming soon)

      We can only hope it's actually coming at all...

    15. Re:Bioware by ryanscottjones · · Score: 0

      Standing by what I said, handing over one's intellectual property and hoping to win a contest isn't exactly a sound career move, IMHO.

    16. Re:Bioware by blancolioni · · Score: 1

      As opposed to doing what exactly with your intellectual property?

  2. First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 5, Funny

    Then buy a photocopier.

    Then buy one of those automatic card shuffling machines.

    Next, photocopy the cliche book and use the shuffling machine to introduce "originality" to your creations.

    Seriously, WTF? What writing is there for games that isn't complete (literary, not computer-y) hackery? You're not exactly competing with Dickens. You're not even competing with Dick.

    --
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    1. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by philspear · · Score: 5, Funny

      You're not exactly competing with Dickens. You're not even competing with Dick.

      Unless he wants to work in the field of porn videogames, which also suffers from a lack of quality writing.

    2. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by Bieeanda · · Score: 1

      What this guy said. The titles mentioned in the summary aren't exactly filled with deathless prose. Then again, when your audience thinks that the Wheel of Time and Snow Crash are high art, their expectations aren't exactly difficult to exceed.

    3. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. Don't read Philip Dick. If you're going to do a crappy job trying to write like somebody famous, at least read Borges, Rushdie, or Eco instead.

    4. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by Again · · Score: 2, Informative

      Then again, when your audience thinks that the Wheel of Time and Snow Crash are high art, their expectations aren't exactly difficult to exceed.

      Wheel of Time is high art!

    5. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And yet, they sell so well..

    6. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by shish · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Unless he wants to work in the field of porn videogames, which also suffers from a lack of quality writing.

      Actually, you'd be surprised: In Japan, the genre of "interactive erotic novel" is vast and surprisingly high quality; many of the stories being good enough to be popular even when the "interactive" and "erotic" parts get stripped out for TV or other media~

      (Though I will concede that I have yet to see an original english language game that didn't suck :( )

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    7. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by Itninja · · Score: 3, Funny

      Totally. I saw Grave of the Fireflies in its' original form. TOTAL PORNFEST.

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    8. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by mqduck · · Score: 1

      I'm willing to bet porn games actually pay much more attention to dialog than most other genres.

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      Property is theft.
    9. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by jozmala · · Score: 1

      You're not exactly competing with Dickens. You're not even competing with Dick.

      Unless he wants to work in the field of porn videogames, which also suffers from a lack of quality writing.

      Oh. YES.
      GIMME MORE.

      --
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    10. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by mustafap · · Score: 1

      >at least read Borges, Rushdie, or Eco instead.

      Oh, yes, I can see that working.

      "The Invention of Morel" as a video game anyone?

      ZZZZzzzz.....

      --
      Open Source Drum Kit, LPLC deve board - mjhdesigns.com
    11. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by popmaker · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There IS however Sam'n'max. Not Dickens but a long way toward being Pratchett.

      And I still think Planescape Torment actually had some literary quality. Feel free to disagree.

    12. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by fastest+fascist · · Score: 1

      Agreed. If you think Mass Effect was well-written, please do NOT try to break into games writing.

    13. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is why you <img src=the Fark FAIL tag>.

    14. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by vonFinkelstien · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You seem to assume that Dickens is better than PKD. That's blasphemy in these parts. ;-)

    15. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by Simon+Brooke · · Score: 1

      Then buy a photocopier.

      Then buy one of those automatic card shuffling machines.

      Next, photocopy the cliche book and use the shuffling machine to introduce "originality" to your creations.

      Seriously, WTF? What writing is there for games that isn't complete (literary, not computer-y) hackery? You're not exactly competing with Dickens. You're not even competing with Dick.

      Is the wrong answer.

      Yes, 'computer games' (I personally prefer 'interactive fiction', but that may be pretentious) is a young artform. Yes, we're still struggling to learn how to create compelling interactive narratives. But unless you have an ambition not merely to compete with Dickens and Shakespeare, but to equal them don't even bother trying. The market for games is hard enough to break into anyway - there's no market at all for badly written games.

      --
      I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
    16. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by chrish · · Score: 3, Funny

      Or worse, EA could crank out an FPS version of The Name of the Rose...

      --
      - chrish
    17. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by Mr.+DOS · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree. I downloaded Sam & Max Episode 104: Abe Lincoln Must Die just to see what the fuss was about back when they released it for free, and I enjoyed the storyline/writing immensely. Not entirely /intelligent/, to be sure, but it was funny and well thought-out. Very obvious that they'd taken the time to consider (and then execute) what was appropriate dialog for that sort of game.

            --- Mr. DOS

    18. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by arb+phd+slp · · Score: 1

      Eco's Island of the Day Before would be an interesting puzzle level.

      --
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    19. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by Tekfactory · · Score: 1

      Well back in the days of pulp, a writer named William Wallace (not Braveheart) Cook wrote a book called Plotto. He combined all the plot points of the day into a system for making stories.

      So you aren't even original with this idea. Cook wrote it in 1928 when he got paid a couple cents a word for his pulp stories. a used copy will cost you up to $300 these days.

      There is a more modern book called Plots Unlimited that while not the original, won't cost you 3 bills either.

      There are plenty of writer's books out there, and a handful out there for GAME writers, but I have only read the Chris Crawford book so I can't say much about the others.

    20. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by Golias · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Being funny takes a LOT of intelligence, as most people who try to be funny for a living quickly discover.

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

    21. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by Golias · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Then buy a photocopier.

      Then buy one of those automatic card shuffling machines.

      Next, photocopy the cliche book and use the shuffling machine to introduce "originality" to your creations.

      Seriously, WTF? What writing is there for games that isn't complete (literary, not computer-y) hackery? You're not exactly competing with Dickens. You're not even competing with Dick.

      Is the wrong answer.

      Yes, 'computer games' (I personally prefer 'interactive fiction', but that may be pretentious) is a young artform. Yes, we're still struggling to learn how to create compelling interactive narratives. But unless you have an ambition not merely to compete with Dickens and Shakespeare, but to equal them don't even bother trying. The market for games is hard enough to break into anyway - there's no market at all for badly written games.

      Correction.

      There's no market at all for game writing.

      The most popular games out there: Deer Hunter, Guitar Hero, Flash-based puzzle games, Texas Hold 'Em sims for phones, the latest FPS... Pretty much no "writing" required at all.

      The closest you will get is writing "quests" for MMO games, and the demands there are shockingly light as well.

      Most people play computer games for the action (and/or to socialize with each other), not for the storytelling. If they want a story, they will turn to a story-telling medium, such as film or books.

      There are probably more people wanting to "write for video games" than there are people who want to play the games such people would write.

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

    22. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Moshi Moshi....hahahaha *gigglegiggle* penis soooo large....hahahahahaha *gigglegiggle*

    23. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And with that, you've just proven his point.

    24. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by Simon+Brooke · · Score: 1

      Most people play computer games for the action (and/or to socialize with each other), not for the storytelling. If they want a story, they will turn to a story-telling medium, such as film or books.

      There are probably more people wanting to "write for video games" than there are people who want to play the games such people would write.

      You could well be right!

      --
      I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
    25. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      To this day I don't know why Charles Dickens is considered classic literature. Great Expectations was the worst novel I've ever read. Ever. I wish I could go back in time just to break his hands.

    26. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by sesshomaru · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The ability to write a competant Space Opera is not "photocopy the cliche book and use the shuffling machine to introduce "originality" to your creations."

      Lot's of games are ruined by a poor sense of aesthetics, even if they are technically competant. Portal wouldn't have been Portal with out a well written GladOS, even if the puzzles were exactly the same. System Shock wouldn't have it's current reputation if the story had been a neglected after thought.

      One thing about me is I've read a lot of Dickens, a lot. Great writer. However, he was also writing popular, sentimental stuff for the masses. In fact, the format he was publishing in was the 19th century equivalent of the TV soap opera.

      People miss that fact constantly. Most of the people who we think of as great writers these days were writing for the masses and popular acclaim, not for ivory tower intellectuals. When people disdain "popular" trash, and like some modern literature that only appeals to a very small segment of the population, they are just being snobs. A lot of the popular stuff is poor quality, but so is a lot of the elitist stuff.

      --
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    27. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by ultranova · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, you'd be surprised: In Japan, the genre of "interactive erotic novel" is vast and surprisingly high quality; many of the stories being good enough to be popular even when the "interactive" and "erotic" parts get stripped out for TV or other media~

      However, these are "interactive novels", "choose your own adventure" -books rather than video games - no, the ability to chose which guy/girl/alien you fuck midway through doesn't make them a video game. As such, they don't suffer from the problems real video game's writing does. They are, basically, cutscenes joined together at junctions where the watcher can make a choice which branch should be followed.

      Not that this supposed ease stops them from often having truly inane plots, even for hentai...

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    28. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by hanako · · Score: 1
      (Though I will concede that I have yet to see an original english language game that didn't suck :( )

      There aren't that many of them to check out, though, and most of them are written by hobbyists who have no more experience in professional writing than the bad dialog-writers that are being mocked...

      I'll admit that my own work is far from perfect, although I'd hope that you'd rank Fatal Hearts at least a little bit above 'suck'. :) (Not porn. Just visual novel.)

      As a game developer interested in writing-heavy games, I can say that I have been approached a few times by people desperately wanting to get hired to write game stories for me, and I pretty much ignore them. I'm writing my own games. I have stories I want to tell, and I enjoy doing it. If someone wants to write their own game and have me help them get it finished and on sale, I'm fine with that. But I'm not hiring anyone to write for me.

    29. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by kiwimate · · Score: 1

      So, out of interest, what would you consider classic literature? And what are the best novels you've ever read?

    30. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      No, MMO. Everyone's doing MMOs today, so it's gotta be an MMO. Think of all the money WoW makes and ... we gotta go MMO.

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    31. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Actually, System Shock would not be remembered at all without its story. Strip the story and what's left? A so-so shooter. That doesn't really speak for the story of System Shock, more for the lack thereof of the other titles.

      Let's be sensible here. What's the big story behind System Shock? A corrupt manager hiring a hacker to disable the ethic routines of an AI who goes nuts and develops megalomania. And in part 2, an alien superintelligence takes over the ship by "converting" the crew and infiltrating the AI.

      Sorry, but that script wouldn't even suffice for some straight-to-TV B-Movie.

      That's neither great writing nor an original story. Both stories are about as intransparent as a stripper's underwear. About 5 minutes into the game you knew what's cooking. You kept playing because you were involved, not just watching, but if this was a movie, you would have walked out about halfway through it. We consider it great stories because we're used to games with crappy, threadbare stories behind them, so the few "gems" that stick out needn't really be that shiny.

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    32. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by Golddess · · Score: 1

      At first I thought that you must surely be joking. Developers trying to put a decent story in a porn game? Then I remembered a friend of mine complaining about one such game. "Dammit, where's the 'Get Naked' button?"

      --
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    33. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      I think the genre is just called interactive novel, not all of them involve porn. For example, the Phoenix Wright games are pretty popular in the west too and would probably fall into the genre. Of course there's also Phoenix Drive, the porn version...

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    34. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Except most people only like contemporary writing and might be interested in old works as a way of showing off but you won't see many care if you write like Shakespeare. Each time has its style, its context, its metaphors. You can't just take another time's and wonder why it doesn't work in the present.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    35. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by KDR_11k · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Pratchett's writing only works in book form (maybe movie too, haven't seen those), have you ever played Discworld 2? Loooooooooooooong narrator sequences, loooooooooooooong dialogues, ...

      Sure, it's funny but in a game it just starts to drag on quickly once you get a five minute response to every dialog option you pick. At some point the player just wants to get things done, the art of humour is to make the jokes while getting stuff done.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    36. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by KDR_11k · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There are some genres that try to tell a story (especially FPSes seem to want that now and of course the obligatory RPGs) but yeah, the real mass market that flash games, Deer Hunter, card games, the Wii, etc serve doesn't want a story, it wants something that's fun instantly rather than spending hours on buildup and whatnot. Mostly because to people who don't spend all their time gaming a videogame is something that passes a short amount of time between other activities.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    37. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by wienerschnizzel · · Score: 1

      It's not the plot summaries that make good storytelling.

      Make a summary of the Iliad or Romeo and Juliette and you get nothing too interesting just as well.

      It's HOW you write that matters - compelling dialogues, atmosphere, characterization, the buildup of the story, maintaining tension etc. etc.

      In System Shock it was fun to read the records of the dying crew because it added so much to the atmosphere. In, say, Oblivion almost all of the dialogues are plain dull with everybody, be it mage or beggar talking exactly the same way.

    38. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Though I will concede that I have yet to see an original english language game that didn't suck :(

      not only do they suck, they swallow as well.

    39. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by shish · · Score: 1

      I've seen games with no plot, linear plot, and branching plot, interactive novels being script-wise, in the same group as branching plot -- what games are there that are more complicated than that?

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    40. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by popmaker · · Score: 1

      I have actually played - and beaten - Discworld 2. I'd like more of games like that actually.

      Sure the dialogues don't have to be that long, but they can - and HAVE been - of literary quality in some games. In other words, it's possible, feasbile and has been done.

    41. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

      Most game stories/writing sucks, in part, due to the primary kind of games being developed: first person shooters. Kind of hard to weave a consistent story amidst shooting *whatever*, and there's really not much point (from a developer's perspective) because that's not why people buy the game.

      The film equivalent is the action movie. Think about how many actual original action films are out there (IE not counting graphic novel/comic adaptations) which could conceivably be converted into a game. Or, for that matter, simply good and memorable action films. There aren't many! I can count on one hand the action films since the early 1990s which I'd consider "good" and memorable (Die Hard, Under Siege, The Boondock Saints, Braveheart, Ronin, maybe a couple others I can't immediately think of). There are even fewer good movies action movies which could also be made into a good game.

      Though, there are such movies. Ronin and Die Hard, for instance, could probably be made into decent shooters/role playing games, or in the case of Ronin and BDS, used as a template/theme on which to base a game. They'd still need a good writer, of course.

      And there ARE original English games (ie with good writing) which come out from time to time, even outside the RPG market. Deus Ex, which is part RPG, is one of hte best stories of all time. Max Payne, which is 100% shooter, is also a fantastic story (the best one in gaming I can remember - damn the film adaptation for ruining it). And who can forget Half-Life, which as a shooter has a very good story interwoven into it - certainly better than most zombie/undead/etc. movie in recent years.

      Maybe your qualifications for "good story" and "good writing" are different than mine. I wouldn't read Nancy Drew or watch a soap opera, because it's all meaningless emotional shit. I can't imagine the stories in erotica-stripped erotica being much different than either of those.

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    42. Re:First buy a book of sci fi cliches. by shish · · Score: 1

      And there ARE original English games (ie with good writing) which come out from time to time

      I was talking in the context of visual novels, which are a much smaller market~

      I wouldn't read Nancy Drew or watch a soap opera, because it's all meaningless emotional shit. I can't imagine the stories in erotica-stripped erotica being much different than either of those.

      I can't actually remember the last time something like that was successful... For examples of recent ero-game to tv adaptions, see Utawarerumono and Fate/Stay Night, both of which appealed to my action / sci-fi tastes (though come to think of it, neither are sci-fi per se; Soul Link is a very sci-fi ero-game adaption, but overall not as memorable as the previous two)

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  3. They don't by FunkSoulBrother · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't think the issue is so much that games companies can't find good writers, it's more they won't pay for it. So you get some designer/coder throwing shit together at the last minute.

    1. Re:They don't by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 5, Informative

      And the people who do have good writing and aren't an RPG often outsource their writing to one of the many many many companies in LA which have staff writers for TV and Film.

      A few programs on Cartoon network for instance farm out their screenplays to script doctoring companies.

      If you want to write for games you probably will be working for a multi-purpose writing agency.

    2. Re:They don't by Neon+Aardvark · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Writing is an art, and with any art-form there are huge numbers of highly talented people willing to do it for free.

      And probably larger numbers who are shit and also want to do it for free.

      Ergo, it's not a question of payment, it's a question of the games companies sifting through a lot of writers to find good cheap ones (because I'd bet a lot of money there are many of these out there).

      --
      Azural - instrumentals
    3. Re:They don't by SirSlud · · Score: 1

      Let's be clear. They won't pay for it because story telling is not the main conceit of video games. I agree that a well written game can really enhance it, and in some cases, make it or break it if the game play isn't there, but games are games. You need competent writing, not brilliant writing, because the immersion is derived from the gameplay (for the most part, of course. Adventure games rely more heavily on good writing, blah blah blah.) See music in porn for an example of this dynamic. You need music. You don't need *great* music.

      As for the original guy's question, getting into the industry as a writer either comes by being a successful writer in another medium, or getting into the industry and working from within (maybe through level design or production management.)

      Disclosure: programmer in the industry. Some games have really nailed good writing (I'm looking at you, Myst, Mass Effect, many adventure games) but ultimately, its only a piece of the puzzle, and the barriers to creating a successful financial game are so high, filling the ranks with good writers is not very high on the risk management scale of employability.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    4. Re:They don't by IronChef · · Score: 1

      I work in games, as a writer even, and I largely agree with that. (I am the exception--I was lucky enough to be hired AS a writer. Watch in awe as I make that hard to believe, by rambling on.)

      Everyone from the lead designer on down may want to create the most finely crafted story possible, but in the end... There has to be a budget for it.

      And before you say, "but good writing can be cheap!" don't forget that the budget includes programmers making tools to facilitate putting that text in the game, and GUI designers accounting for big wads of text, and translation costs, and if you are outsourcing because you have a lot of content planned, someone in the office needs to spend time wrangling those assets, and what about voiceover? It all adds up.

      Plus, the pesky writer will want things in the game world to match the story. That means working with art to get the in-game assets to line up with the writing. Where the story is too ambitious (giant robot, etc), you have to bargain, or just give up and think of something else.

      Making the writing an integral part of the game cuts across all the other disciplines in the studio. Cutting corners, making the text a short tacked-on afterthought done by the level designers, is therefore pretty tempting to a lot of projects.

      When management and the other departments are all in to it and supportive, it's great. Without that support, the writers are sunk, no matter how skilled they are.

      My advice to the OP is to read at +5, because most of what I would suggest has already been posted.

      I would also add that if you are expecting the rockstar lifestyle, you will be sorely disappointed at most studios. It can still be a great job though.

    5. Re:They don't by Al+Miqah · · Score: 1

      This is the biggest load of claptrap I've ever heard. I'm a freelance game writer and I make a fine living writing games. I've also written Animation and frankly, I've never heard of Cartoon Network outsourcing scripts to "script doctoring companies." Worse, I'm not even sure I've even heard of a SINGLE "script doctoring company." Can you name two? This post comes across as the worst sort of uninformed hogswollop. If someone desperately wants to break into games, they need to do a few things: 1) Hang out where game producers hang out. GDC, DICE, etc. 2) Network, network, network. The more people you know, the more people who can hire you. 3) Write. Write MODs. Write sample scripts. Write that downloadable content for GTA 4 that's burning a hole in your soul. Whatever it is, it's bound to be better than most games... when the time comes for you to show it to someone, you might get hired. 4) Know how to do something in addition to crafting good story & dialog. Learn another aspect of game design so you're not a too-specialized expert with no use except for the last 10 weeks of a game's production. 5) Play games. There's nothing worse than a games writer who doesn't play games. Just some examples of REAL advice. -Micah Wright, writer, Evil Scum. chairman, Videogame Writers Caucus, Writers Guild of America (west) http://www.evilscum.net/

  4. Bioware by SIR_Taco · · Score: 3, Informative

    Bioware is one company that I always seem to see writing positions open for... now whether you take that as a good thing or a bad thing I guess depends on your perspective. They usually have a written component that you can submit (ie an original story set in genre X or based on Bioware game X) which, they say, can override any educational qualification.
    Austin, Texas
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Yes, believe it or not Bioware is actually a Canadian company.

    --
    I say don't drink and drive, you might spill your drink. Before you get behind the wheel just stop and think.
  5. It's a Job by liquiddark · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You get a job with a game company the same way you get any other job:

    First, you find companies that actually do what you're trying to get into doing. Don't apply to companies that aren't using writers for their games if you want to be a writer for games.

    Second, you put together your portfolio. In the case of games, you'll want to have some dynamic media - sketched storyboards (art shouldn't matter too much, so keep it simple), play or movie scripts, and/or, ideally, game mods that have your name in the writer: line.

    Third, you have to work hard, get lucky, make friends, and generally be very nice to people who often deserve it but sometimes do not.

    1. Re:It's a Job by Dekortage · · Score: 1

      %3

      --
      $nice = $webHosting + $domainNames + $sslCerts
    2. Re:It's a Job by Ryvar · · Score: 5, Informative

      Here's my experience:

      A year before Bioshock shipped, I applied for a QA position at Irrational Boston. After five years of unemployment, I still have no idea why they hired me, but I wasn't about to argue. Fast-forward three months in QA, some game balance analysis writeups I'd done caught Ken Levine's eye and gave him the impression I was quasi-literate. For my part, I simply didn't have the heart to correct him.

      A month later I was working fulltime on script proofing, then editing, story structure, helping direct voiceover recording sessions, and finally voiceover production (take selection & compositing).

      So, some tips:
      1) Get a QA position at a development studio where you are actually working hand in hand with the developers. Do NOT get a QA position at a publisher's degenerate nerd stockyard - busing tables or suicide would be preferable to that.

      2) Get your foot in the door any way you can, no matter how low or menial you have to start, and once you're inside show them what you're capable of. Without pissing off your manager.

      This is a young industry, there's a lot of movement potential if you've got the chops. Get out there and amaze people.

      --Ryvar

    3. Re:It's a Job by Barkmullz · · Score: 4, Funny

      A year before Bioshock shipped...

      This must be some new designation for numbering years that I was not previously aware of.

      --
      Ronald said nothing. He flung himself from the room, flung himself upon his horse, and rode madly off in all directions.
    4. Re:It's a Job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's like the Year Before Duke Nukem's release...

    5. Re:It's a Job by garatheus · · Score: 1

      is that a name of the new Duke Nukem game?

    6. Re:It's a Job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the new BC

    7. Re:It's a Job by clickclickdrone · · Score: 1

      >This is a young industry
      I've been playing computer games since about 1977. When does it stop being a young industry?

      --
      I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
    8. Re:It's a Job by Icarium · · Score: 1

      1) Get a QA position at a development studio where you are actually working hand in hand with the developers. Do NOT get a QA position at a publisher's degenerate nerd stockyard - busing tables or suicide would be preferable to that.

      I resent that! Nobody should ever need to resort to the option of bussing tables.

    9. Re:It's a Job by Chaos+Incarnate · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, one used for discussing the development of that game.

      --
      Benford's Corollary to Clarke's Law: "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    10. Re:It's a Job by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 1

      Don't apply to companies that aren't using writers for their games if you want to be a writer for games. ...unless you're capable of convincing them that they would make more money if they used professional writers, specifically you. If you can present a compelling case to the CEO that writing deficiencies are holding them back, you're in.

    11. Re:It's a Job by zaxus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >I've been playing computer games since about 1977. When does it stop being a young industry?

      Prostitution: Thousands of years old
      Printing books: Hundreds of years old
      Film: ~150 years old (~400 years old if you count camera obscura)
      Radio: ~100 years old
      Television: ~80 years old (commercially)
      Computer games: ~30 years old

      Computer gaming is still a young industry.

      --
      /. zen: Imagine a Beowulf cluster of Beowulf clusters...
    12. Re:It's a Job by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      So that's why it's more profitable to be a pimp rather than a programmer? We just don't have the market penetration yet...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    13. Re:It's a Job by DrgnDancer · · Score: 1

      And most of the first 10-15 years of that had VERY few games with any story beyond "shoot the alien ships and collect power-ups". Excepting the odd "Zork" or "Oregon Trail" story based games are really more like ~20 years old.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    14. Re:It's a Job by duckInferno · · Score: 1

      I've got the chops but it doesn't seem to be getting me very far. I do get a lot of odd stares, though...

      --
      Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, watch it -- I'm huge!
    15. Re:It's a Job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where have you been, I've been on the YBB (years before bioshock) / YAB (years after bioshock) standard for years

    16. Re:It's a Job by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Third, you have to work hard, get lucky, make friends, and generally be very nice to people who often deserve it but sometimes do not.

      That's blown it for most slashdotters already.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  6. No by azav · · Score: 2

    There are a billion other kids who want to write games and chances are that they are better than you.

    It's like wanting to be a major sports figure. There are only 5000 people in major sports. The likelihood that you will be one of them out of the millions of other kids is slim and none.

    Are you really that good? If you think you're not. then well, you're not.

    --
    - Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
    1. Re:No by nEoN+nOoDlE · · Score: 3, Informative

      There aren't a billion other people who want to write games. The people who write games are usually freelance writers who are at the right place at the right time when a job opens up on Craigslist. Then they're given a crappy cliche sci-fi story that they have to fill in with dialog and they have a few weeks to do it. That's in the lucky occasion that they hire a writer at all, and not have the game designer throw some copy together over the weekend. Writing just isn't really on the radar in the games industry. There are a couple of companies where that's their bread and butter like Bioware or Bethesda, but other than that writing is tacked on as an afterthought. If there were a billion kids out there whose dream is to write for games, don't you think there would be better writing in games?

      --
      Don't trust a bull's horn, a doberman's tooth, a runaway horse or me.
    2. Re:No by Etrias · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Desire and drive will get you further than talent. That is a fact. If this guy has the desire to do this, who are you to say he can't...or shouldn't.

      More power to him, I say.

    3. Re:No by azav · · Score: 1

      Because I know enough people who are in the industry and own their own game development companies. That's why.

      Everyone has an idea and and everyone wants to pitch their idea so someone. It's glutted. If you want me to give advice to the kid to say "go ahead, burn yourself out and if you have a good idea, expect it to get ripped off, but SURE, go for it", then You and I would be doing that kid a disservice.

      Who are you to give advice that he should go into game development?

      --
      - Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
    4. Re:No by mqduck · · Score: 1

      And don't forget the Final Fantasy games.

      I'm not sure if I'm being sarcastic.

      --
      Property is theft.
    5. Re:No by SparkleMotion88 · · Score: 1

      Desire and drive will get you further than talent.

      I've been working in the software industry for a while now and I believe that your statement is, sadly, very true. We constantly have to deal with the products of good intentions and furious labor absent any insight or ability.

    6. Re:No by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      If there were a billion kids out there whose dream is to write for games, don't you think there would be better writing in games?

      If nobody hires those kids, no. And freelancing is hard to impossible unless you somehow manage to find other people willing to cooperate with you, which is hard on its own. Let me elaborate.

      For a "good game", you need very specialized people for very specialized tasks. I don't know a single person who is an equally good programmer, graphics artist, composer, playtester, writer and so on which you need all of for something that most people would consider a game well done. But even if we assume there is a single person who can do all of this, even his day only has 24 hours and he probably has to dedicate some of them to eating, sleeping and working a day job to make the former two possible, so he can't get anything done before the technology he wants to use is obsolete (and hence doesn't produce a "good" game anymore).

      So let's assume we have a programmer and an artist who somehow manage to find someone with some music talent to create a little noise. So you have three people. Three people who do probably have some creative talent and the will to put it to work, or else they wouldn't even consider making a game together.

      Question for 500: Are they going to be looking for a writer or do they probably already have an idea for a game and think they can work out some story for it?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    7. Re:No by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I've been doing my share of game development. I stopped talking about it. It's worse than being a doctor at parties when people start "oh doc, I have this ..., could you tell me / have a look...".

      You have NO idea how often I had to hear "oh really? Oh, I have this wonderful idea for a game". Sometimes including a complete script and storyline.

      Basically you have a thousand people pitching ideas and stories for game for every team of programmers and artists willing to take it on. There is no shortage at all of people who have (sometimes really great) ideas for games. But only a tiny fraction of those really have an idea what "sells", what ideas you can actually realize and actually make a fun, entertaining game. A lot looks good on paper but just plain stinks when you are looking at the finished product.

      "Game designer" seems to be right behind "american idol". An insane amount of people think they got it, yet only a handful are needed and will actually produce anything great. There's no harm in trying, but I wouldn't really quit my daytime job over it until I have proof that I'll be one of those chosen few.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    8. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. He is correct. Or they hire someone from the community forums. I run a small studio that edits in-game text - well, I do quick grunt work and actual editors edit - and it comes down to a company either not caring all that much or not wanting to pay.

  7. Degrees? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Write. Write often. Then forget games and get into movies and television.

    1. Re:Degrees? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only don't do it now cause the strikes are about to kill off Hollywood!

  8. Planescape, I don't think so by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Planescape, while entertaining, isn't very highly regarded by many of my game-writing collegues.

    Games and writing in games has moved on a great bit since PS:T and the skills required from a game writer today are different from back then:

    - Ability to write in a short, very precise fashion while still maintaining character and flavor.

    - Ability to write in a fashion that includes the user and gives him the illusion of choice.

    - Ability to write scenarios that work for games, which means giving the user control and freedom to express himself within the framework of the story.

    - Ability to keep scenario complexity in check.

    People who want to write grand, long winded stories or novels don't need to apply.

    My tip: Don't mention PS:T.

    1. Re:Planescape, I don't think so by Thrull · · Score: 1

      You don't think Planescape required any of that to write? I thought its style was incredibly specific to the game design field: very complex dialogue trees that tied multiple factors from the game world in while incorporating choices with actual ramifications. It may not have been succint in every aspect, but I would not call it a long winded novel.

      Or are you saying that those things are the examples from the past we've moved on from? Because they sound pretty important.

    2. Re:Planescape, I don't think so by Indefinite,+Ephemera · · Score: 1

      I'll grant that Planescape: Torment is notoriously verbose and that that doesn't suit every project, but 'giving the user control and freedom to express himself within the framework of the story' was pretty well its raison d'Ãtre; and when you're offering actual choices and branching narrative, 'the illusion of choice' is superfluous. So overall it's unclear to me what point you're trying to make.

    3. Re:Planescape, I don't think so by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't necessarily disagree with you. For most games PS:T is not the style to follow. Games and books are separate media and should be treated as such.

      As writings go, though, it's rivaled by few games. May I point out that, in that respect, your game-writing colleagues are not highly regarded by pretty much everyone who reads.

    4. Re:Planescape, I don't think so by loonycyborg · · Score: 1

      Planescape, while entertaining, isn't very highly regarded by many of my game-writing collegues.

      Games and writing in games has moved on a great bit since PS:T and the skills required from a game writer today are different from back then:

      They had moved on a great bit backwards. No current games can match PS:T or Betrayal at Krondor. Not being highly regarded by current "industry"'s game writers is a praise.

  9. gaming is how i got my start by JeanBaptiste · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Now I do database programming. Better hours, better money. I use that money and free time to tinker with games.

    1. Re:gaming is how i got my start by sbeckstead · · Score: 1

      I do Db programming and its boring but pays the bills, did I mention how boring it is. I teach C++ for game programming (used to anyway) and I write games, I wish I could make a living at it but it's very hard to break into the field. Though if one of the three games I've written ever get published (non disclosure prevents name calling) I have a chance. In the mean time I'll go back to working on Mods. Did I mention how mind numbingly boring DB programming is?

    2. Re:gaming is how i got my start by 91degrees · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How do you break out of games?

      I'd love a mundane job with no fscking crunch. Every time I send my CV out and apply for a job advertised on Planet Recruit or something, it ends up with an agent who only cares about games jobs.

  10. Insensitive... by polyomninym · · Score: 0, Redundant

    I don't break into games writing. I lawfully gain access.

  11. Kingdom of Loathing by reSonans · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Some of the larger game publishers could learn a thing or two from Kingdom of Loathing. It's witty, engaging, and has a great development team who are constantly adding content. The best aspect, though, is that it's up to you whether you play casual or hardcore. I really appreciate that.

    --
    Light the blue touch-paper and retire immediately.
    1. Re:Kingdom of Loathing by chirishnique · · Score: 2, Informative

      Agreed. For those playing along at home... KoL (Kingdom of Loathing) is a satirical text-based, browser RPG in which players use an allocated number of "adventures" every day in order to complete quests given to them. There are many items which can be used to give players a greater number of "adventures" to use in a day. Many of these items, again, are food-centred parodies of several aspects of contemporary life. The many references to pop-culture, geek-humour and relatively constant introduction of new content attract a wide player base, which in turn has yielded a distinct and quite sociable game community. The game was/is developed and overseen by "Jick" and "Skully", who have used player contributions (in exchange for stat-enhancing "Mr Accessories") to maintain the game site- ad free and online. -------- (Wow, I sound like a product of their machine). Would I still pass the TT?

    2. Re:Kingdom of Loathing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I found their game to be amusing for about a day or two, but fairly boring in the long run.

      Found Dragon Tavern (www.dragontavern.com) to be much more fun, and less offensive on the eye's.

  12. DANGER by Sigvatr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Whatever you do, DO NOT join up with some "game design" course. They are a complete was of time and money. You will learn how to make a script for Spongebob Squarepants, not Bioshock.

    1. Re:DANGER by sbeckstead · · Score: 1

      Well I used to teach one of those "Game Design" courses and I can tell you we used state of the art game engines (at the time it was Unreal 3 or 4 I forget) and we also used the Torque engine. So do a little research before you slam us all ok!

    2. Re:DANGER by hansamurai · · Score: 1

      Hey man, just take the Atlas Debugged class at Full Sail and you can make the next Bioshock!

    3. Re:DANGER by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      some "game design" course. They are a complete [waste] of time and money. You will learn how to make a script for Spongebob Squarepants, not Bioshock.

      Don't knock it; maybe there's more money in Spongebob because everyone else wants to do the "cool stuff".
             

    4. Re:DANGER by Sigvatr · · Score: 1

      I TOOK one of these courses, and we are not talking about game engines at that.

    5. Re:DANGER by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well I used to teach one of those "Game Design" courses and I can tell you we used state of the art game engines (at the time it was Unreal 3 or 4 I forget) and we also used the Torque engine. So do a little research before you slam us all ok!

      What a completely non-biased response!

    6. Re:DANGER by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about a Degree in Game Design? Lots of Universities (Reputable and disreputable) where I am are offering it.

    7. Re:DANGER by montibbalt · · Score: 1

      To be fair the Game Development degree at RIT is basically the same as their IT or CS degrees, plus advanced study classes (AI, 3d graphics programming, procedural shading, etc) and co-op education. So, there ARE some legitimate "game design" degree programs at respectable schools ... BUT... this example is geared more toward development and some art than anything else. IMO you're probably better off being an English major or something, or maybe you could just major/minor in CS and Literature. It's still better than some chain college game design course- Rochester Institute of Technology is a much better idea than Art Institute, DeVry or most two year "factory schools" which exist just to get you out the door.

    8. Re:DANGER by piepkraak · · Score: 0

      I'm in my fourth and last year of Design for Virtual Theatre and Games at the Higher School of Arts in Utrecht, The Netherlands.

      If you really think what we are doing here is a waste of time and money, I invite you to join our open house upcoming Saturday, so I can show you all the projects we're working on here. When we work at a project, the story always comes first: no story, no project.

      Most of our graduates have found their way into the gamesector when they were done here. I seem to detect some hate towards game-studies, something bothering you? Applied and was denied maybe? :p

    9. Re:DANGER by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because there's a huge difference between designing a good script for Spongebob Squarepants, and designing a good script for an FPS?

      Just because you dislike Spongebob isn't a reason to refuse to port your education to other genres.

  13. I wish I knew. by Thrull · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Writing for games definitely seems to be the one place a lot of developers are willing to half-ass completely. They don't seem to realize how ONE semi-competent writer could basically go through and make every line at least better than cringe-worthy.

    Valve seems to get this. Look at Left 4 Dead, a game with a two word story (ZOMBIES! RUN!), and how much they actually focused on dialogue and characterization for these four random survivors. Portal, too. They hired a long time industry writer specifically for that game. They get it. A little good writing goes a long way.

    The problem, I think, is how little it takes to go that extra distance. Games are not novels, not most of them anyway. The fact that it only takes one good writer to work over a story for entertainment value and consistency means that, for most games, the writer's market is microscopic.

    However, I think one potential way to get involved in this aspect of the industry might be MMO quest design. MMOs generally rely on massive amounts of inordinately boring quests made interesting only by the addition of a few paragraphs of clever description. Here there's at least a demand for written content that will last beyond the game's first six hours. Bioware and Blizzard both had some promising quest-design job offerings in the past, although the postings usually vanish before I can read them.

    Just get used to the idea of never really owning your material. That's one of the big hitches that I see with writing in the gaming industry. Once you write it, it's no longer yours. With films, there's the script, which someone owns and gets royalties on. With network series, I'm not exactly sure who owns what, but the writers are at least entitled to royalties when their work is used. As the Writer's Guild fought for recently.

    I'm pretty sure the Writer's Guild hasn't touched the games industry. My understanding is that, with games, you don't own the writing unless your work existed before the game did and they pay you to use it, which is rare enough to be excluded to most non-bestselling authors.

    1. Re:I wish I knew. by Minwee · · Score: 3, Funny

      Writing for games definitely seems to be the one place a lot of developers are willing to half-ass completely. They don't seem to realize how ONE semi-competent writer could basically go through and make every line at least better than cringe-worthy.

      Or, they do realize it, decide right up front that they need to bring in at least one semi-competent writer, and then get stuck in a situation like this:

      [Cue the flashback music and effects]

      "Whatever happened to that writer guy, anyway? He was here for a few days last month, sat in Paul's office for a few hours and then disappeared. We have a deadline coming up next week and all I have is a handful of notes he left on a napkin and an auto-reply from his email saying that he's out of the office until last Tuesday."

      "Yeah, about that... He has been sitting in a hotel room down the street, which Paul was paying for, and writing. On his own, without letting anyone see it until he was done. Thing is, he's really a novelist and I don't think he quite understands what we needed. I showed him the tool set, some of the storyboards we had worked out early on, and all that, but what he sent me looks like a manuscript for a book. Paul still believes in him, but he took off for Brighton this morning and now I'm going to have to find someone who can turn this wreck into something we can use."

      "I'm someone, aren't I?"

      "Yup. It's either you or that guy in the art department who keeps trying to hide drawings of penises in all the stained glass windows."

      "Okay. I'll go get my shovel..."

      And the road to schlock is paved with good intentions.

    2. Re:I wish I knew. by bluesatin · · Score: 1

      The problem with the current generation of MMO players is that they don't care about the storyline or what the quest text is. I would happily play through reading all the text to quests and take in the area, but unfortunately all my friends will have overtaken and left me behind within a day. I offered to play the original NVN with a few of my friends as I didn't really fancy taking up World of Warcraft again on a different server, and as soon as I mentioned it having a proper storyline and having an impact in the world, one of them replied 'Oh is it all boring dialogue then?'. It seems that nowadays people want LESS storyline in there games, at least in the RPG genre. While FPS games are getting a bit of a storyline, probably the same amount that people want the RPG games dumbed down to.

    3. Re:I wish I knew. by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 4, Informative

      You are right the Writer's Guild hasn't touched the games industry. Having shipped multiple titles with shitty dialogue (both written and spoken), dialogue just isn't a priority. Hell, I'd wish we'd just cut half the dialogue most of the time. We're making games here people, not a fucking book or movie. Somewhere along the way games got hi-jacked with all this narative bullshit.

      You know what the first mod for Wow was? Fast Quest Text, which became so popular that Blizzard made it that option officially supported. Most gamers (or us game devs) just don't care about dialogue, so your premise that dialogue is half-assed is correct.

      From the above it would seem, I'm against dialogue. I'm not. I'm just of the philosophy "Less is More". One reason GTA 3 worked so well, is that there was NO spoken dialogue. That was brilliant.

      I think part of the problem is that it's just too hard too tell the difference between crappy dialogue, and average dialogue. And more importantly, it just takes too long, and too much money for GOOD dialogue, when in the end it just doesn't matter unless you're going to make me sit through some lame cutscene I can't skip. I imagine comedian writers for TV sitcoms must struggle to come up with something fresh all the time, but in most games, dialogue just isn't that important to gameplay -- it is a secondary effect.

      The orginal submitter is in for a tough sell.

    4. Re:I wish I knew. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The WGA-West does have a video game sub-group, and Left 4 Dead/Portal were written by Erik and Chet from Old Man Murray.

      Writing in games is much better than this thread, or this questioner, implies. However, writers, like game directors, etc. are not well known and thus usually ignored.

    5. Re:I wish I knew. by Thrull · · Score: 1

      You know what the first mod for Wow was? Fast Quest Text, which became so popular that Blizzard made it that option officially supported. Most gamers (or us game devs) just don't care about dialogue, so your premise that dialogue is half-assed is correct.

      You know, you have a point. As much as I'd personally like to get a job writing quests, as much respect as I have for the unique story telling potential games have, I stopped reading quest descriptions in WoW sometime during the Burning Crusade.

      I made it sound like the successful companies know the value of good writing, but, in actuality, it might just be that the successful companies are the only ones with the cash to throw around for luxuries like good writing. Like a little cherry on top of their game-cake.

      Doesn't mean I would give up on the sub-industry, though. GTA III DID have spoken dialogue, just not by the main character. It was funny, it was gruesome (especially the radio jingles). It fit the game. The mute main character was kind of a Zelda style move it seemed, where you would "supply your own personality." But, you know, they threw that out the window with Vice and all the following games, and I think it lead to a much stronger experience.

    6. Re:I wish I knew. by Z80xxc! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm glad you brought up Portal. It is truly a game which is a story. While I love the gameplay, physics and so on in the game, what really takes the cake (sorry, sorry) is the dialogue. With only one spoken character in the game, Portal has many literary elements. Just recently in English class we were actually discussing the literary aspects of Portal. It has a plot (not just random shooting at things), it has characters with developing personalities, foreshadowing (you will be baked, and there will be cake), a motif (the cake is a lie!), beginning middle and end, etc. I wish more games were like this - Portal is fun to play, but the story is what makes it the excellent game that it is.

    7. Re:I wish I knew. by ProzacPatient · · Score: 1

      Games are not novels, not most of them anyway.

      ZORK!
      On a serious note though... if they were then text adventures, or adventure games in general, would still be a major genre.

    8. Re:I wish I knew. by Veggiesama · · Score: 1

      You know what the first mod for Wow was? Fast Quest Text, which became so popular that Blizzard made it that option officially supported. Most gamers (or us game devs) just don't care about dialogue, so your premise that dialogue is half-assed is correct.

      And here is the problem with narrative/exposition/dialogue/writing in online games. It's all in the wrong place.

      WoW is a perfect example. When I played, I read most of my quest text, and I enjoyed some of it (if I could ignore the formulas for a minute). However, by the time I got around to DOING the quests, I've already forgotten the narrative, and by the time I turned the quests in, I had forgotten what it was I did to complete them, so the "completion text" didn't make a whole lot of sense. In the end, all I did was look for gold question marks over people's heads.

      The problem multiplied when I join a group. Some like to read, some don't. Some want to run through them quickly, some want to take their time. Some are on stage 1 of the quest, some are on stage 3, and some don't even know where to pick it up. It was hard as hell just to sync up on an experience, unless you were playing with good friends.

      All of the stories were neat and tidy in the little quest panel, and nothing stood out as particularly engaging. All of the writing happened before and after quests, and rarely were there interesting moments during gameplay (the few times I remember noticing some attempt at cinematic spectacle happened right before a confusing raid boss). There was no immersion factor. There was no cinematic appeal that could be shared between the party members.

      The game Left 4 Dead stands as an interesting comparison to cooperative story-telling, even if there's not a whole lot of writing:

      1. Some of the characters banter back-and-forth during the missions. When it's verbalized, the dialogue is synced between players, unlike when reading quest text.

      2. Between missions, you can read the writing on the safehouse walls and get a more immersive sense of story.

      I think if MMOs would concentrate on single instanced quests--say, escape the town while zombies are chasing you--rather than offer a salad bar of dully-imagined quests, then we could see some very interesting cooperative storytelling. There would be more chances to develop heroes and villains, weave more complicated plots, throw in suspense and cliff-hangers, etc. I think if multiplayer game developers worked on an "immersion-first" attitude toward quest/mission creation, hired a few decent voice actors to bring it to life, and added a modicum of randomization to keep it fresh for repeated play-throughs, we might have some more interesting MMOs in the future.

    9. Re:I wish I knew. by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      I hate your games. I mean they're fun. For like an hour. But then I start wondering why I should continue playing.

      What keeps me moving to the next room is the story and dialogue. I want to find out what happens next.

      The difference between a game I "play" and a game I finish is the game I finish had a story I wanted to find the ending to.

      So by all means continue polishing your AI. Meanwhile I'm going to realize your game only had 30 seconds of great gameplay repeated over and over and lose interest. If I don't finish your game I won't be recommending it. Reviewers won't like it and you'll be a failure.

      If there is no mission. No story... it's like watching a western shootout with knowing who the outlaw is. BORING.

      I've played some really shitty games because I wanted to see how the story ended. I've never finished a game with a shitty story. (Unreal Tournament anybody? Great gameplay. But why should I play through 10 levels of shooting AI?

    10. Re:I wish I knew. by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 1

      You kept reading them until burning crusade? I stopped reading them in April '05, and I only started playing in March '05.

    11. Re:I wish I knew. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you're a fucking retard

    12. Re:I wish I knew. by Golias · · Score: 1

      Doesn't mean I would give up on the sub-industry, though. GTA III DID have spoken dialogue, just not by the main character. It was funny, it was gruesome (especially the radio jingles). It fit the game. The mute main character was kind of a Zelda style move it seemed, where you would "supply your own personality." But, you know, they threw that out the window with Vice and all the following games, and I think it lead to a much stronger experience.

      Really?

      I found playing GTA-3 a delightful experience. It was like living in a cheesy crime drama. GTA-VC, less so. I still played it to the final conclusion, but I thought the story kind of got in the way of some of the fun. I actually spent most of my time just doing side-missions and/or jumping vehicles off the local parking ramp in interesting new ways.

      GTA-SA pretty much ended it for me. After spending about two hours between watching cut-scenes and riding around on a BICYCLE (because the "story" demanded that I not complete the game mission any other way, a move totally antithetical to what made GTA so great to begin with), I quit the game and never played it again. I have zero interest in buying any newer GTA titles.

      Well-scripted writing ruined the GTA franchise, if you ask me.

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

    13. Re:I wish I knew. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      The quest text for MMOs, or any dialoge or non-interactive moment in games, is simply the same as with really, really well done, witty and funny ads: They're funny, entertaining and interesting once. Maybe twice. They sure ain't after you've seen them a hundred times. You just want to get past them.

      Take the average game intro. You watch it once, if it's good you watch it again to show it to a friend, but no matter how good it is, no matter how incredibly well it is made, you skip it every time you start the game afterwards.

      When you play a game for the n-th time, or when you grind up your n-th character in an MMO, you don't care about the dialoges anymore. Even if you did when you played it the first time. Yes, it adds depth, yes it adds character, yes, it adds immersion, but you have seen it. After that, it only adds to boredom and tedium.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    14. Re:I wish I knew. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      To each their own, I guess.

      But tell me, how often did you replay that shitty game after you've seen how the story ends? On the other hand, how many people keep playing the same game without story over and over because it's fun to play it?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    15. Re:I wish I knew. by DrgnDancer · · Score: 1

      To be fair, I use fast quest dialog, and I DO read the quests and appreciate the story. I use the fast dialog for two reasons, the first is that I read and comprehend faster that the slow-assed way WoW writes the quests out without it, and the second is that occasionally you have to click through the dialog without reading it. This mainly occurs when the turn in for the quest is some guy or object standing in the middle of a room full of fast spawning MOBs. I've literally died from waiting for the "accept" button to appear on a quest dialog.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    16. Re:I wish I knew. by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Some people play for the new stuff, some play for the adrenaline. You don't seem to enjoy gaming at all if you see games as 30 seconds of gameplay repeated over and over rather than a stream of challenges, it sounds like you are really looking for another medium.

      If I don't finish your game I won't be recommending it. Reviewers won't like it and you'll be a failure.

      And meanwhile it sells millions to people who don't want a story. While reviewers continue to hate it and wonder why the masses are so "stupid" as to buy a game that's not a glorified movie with a bit of interaction.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    17. Re:I wish I knew. by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      It's true I've never played Half Life twice.

      I have played CS for years and years and years.

      Multiplayer is fun. I am one of those few who actually liked Shadowrun and it has zero story.

      But if I'm play a single player game it had better have a story. I would say a single player game without story has about 6 hours of life in it.

    18. Re:I wish I knew. by Wiseleo · · Score: 1

      I read dialog.

      I also read game manuals before playing them. Dialog makes games fun for me. :)

      --
      Leonid S. Knyshov
      Find me on Quora :)
    19. Re:I wish I knew. by Wiseleo · · Score: 1

      You finally explained why I never "beat" most of my games!

      --
      Leonid S. Knyshov
      Find me on Quora :)
    20. Re:I wish I knew. by Al+Miqah · · Score: 1

      Spoken like a developer trained by 20 years of bad cut-scenes to skip & hate all cut-scenes. Also, this idea that the only thing writers bring to games is dialog is soooooo 1990's. Try theme, character and humor. Your zombie game can be as scary as all get out, but without a few moments of levity to break the mood, you can't get to a scarier place very easily. There's no black without white to compare it to, and a symphony of all loud notes gets old pretty quickly compared to one with loud and soft sections. I love the concept, incidentally that games were hijacked by narrative... what is narrative other than a way to differentiate today's games? Okay, I'm running down a hallways shooting zombies... big deal there are 50 other zombie-shooting games out there on the market. The question for MOST people (who aren't jaded game developers opposed to all story in games) is WHY are they running through the hallway and WHAT do they hope to gain at the end of the hallway? Without narrative, we'd still be making Super Mario Brothers sequels.

    21. Re:I wish I knew. by Pheznik · · Score: 1

      Dude...GTA 3 had LOTS of spoken dialogue.

    22. Re:I wish I knew. by Pheznik · · Score: 1

      GTA 3 had lots of spoken dialogue. We are talking about grand theft auto 3 right?

  14. do a mod, get your writing noticed by Clover_Kicker · · Score: 1

    Do a little research, see what the most popular/powerful end-user game toolset is right now (NWN2? Oblivion? Half Life?) and write a few mods.

    At the very least you'll have some practice and something to put on your resume. If you're good maybe you'll get some attention. If writing turns out to be less fun then you expected, better to find out early.

  15. Hey dumbass by damn_registrars · · Score: 4, Informative

    Watch moderators waste their points on your post

    In case you haven't figured it out yet, Anonymous Cowards always post at 0. Since a post can only go down to -1, only one point is required to squish your post. And plenty of people are now getting 10 points in a single round of moderation, which makes it even easier.

    But thanks for playing!

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    1. Re:Hey dumbass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Watch moderators waste their points on your post

      In case you haven't figured it out yet, Anonymous Cowards always post at 0. Since a post can only go down to -1, only one point is required to squish your post. And plenty of people are now getting 10 points in a single round of moderation, which makes it even easier. But thanks for playing!

      At minimum that means 1 point out of either 5 or 10 points (20% or 10% of a mod's points) that could have been used to promote something good that might otherwise have been overlooked by many. Not because AC's post absurd shit, but because of both AC's posting absurd shit AND moderators who believe that modding them down is the best use of at least 10-20% of their points per post modded down, just because those posts contain certain keywords. This is, of course, assuming that the post is never modded up by a dissenting moderator and then modded down again, in which case at least 3 transactions have occurred. There are posts that have a great deal more back-and-forth than this simple example, such as the best trolls or the best "about time someone had the balls to say it" posts. So, 10-20% of a single moderator's points is the bare minimum, worst-case scenario. And you know with a near-absolute certainty that someone will mod it down and that it will probably happen quickly. So, for all practical purposes, that's a guaranteed minimum. Consider the fact that a single AC can post multiple times (with a delay) and the fact that there can be, and often is, more than one person independently making posts.

      So, you're welcome, and playing was my pleasure. Thanks for responding to my original post!

    2. Re:Hey dumbass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you're saying you wouldn't make those posts if it weren't for the moderation system? That seems hard to believe. And if not, then those points are not wasted at all.

    3. Re:Hey dumbass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I make those posts because people like you respond to them. The moderation system, or any discussion about it, is merely a means to that end. That you move from a bold "haha you're a dumbass" approach to posting as AC yourself in order to tiptoe towards another response amuses me even more.

    4. Re:Hey dumbass by Miseph · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      What a monumental waste of time? Is it even that fun?

      --
      Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
    5. Re:Hey dumbass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not as fun as yo mama.

    6. Re:Hey dumbass by eggnoglatte · · Score: 0

      You can improve signal-to-noise ratio two ways: boost signal strength, or reduce noise level.

      Either works for me.

    7. Re:Hey dumbass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The haha guy is somebody else. And if you can change what you say on a whim or a wiggle then you're not actually engaging in anything, but just making noise.

  16. Mods by DaftShadow · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Try to find a Mod out there - one with a team who is actually building something - and pitch them a few missions, maybe a story vision.

    It's a little different writing well for a game, because you need to have you're fleshed out story-arc, which meshes with the gameplay, which can be brought in often enough that it moves the story forward, all without annoying the user. You're not writing a Novel, remember... :)

    You'll probably get turned down at first at a lot of places (lots of people want to help with mods, but can't code/model, so they try to be writers...), but if you're actually any good then you'll find a crew.

    Good Luck!

  17. I don't really know for sure.. by sleeponthemic · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Should I just put on my Planescape t-shirt and stand outside in the rain?"

    No, you should write your heart out and send it to as many people as possible. No degree in writing means anything if you can't prove you're what someone is looking for.

    I personally would not hire anybody for a creative job if the main focal point of their application was a degree. That basically sends the wrong message.

    The proof is in the pudding and like all games related jobs, see if you can get involved in open source projects first, so you have some direct prior work.

    --
    I record my sleeptalking
    1. Re:I don't really know for sure.. by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      I personally would not hire anybody for a creative job if the main focal point of their application was a degree. That basically sends the wrong message.

      will you please go and smack the HR department in the head for me then. Because for some reason they think a CS degree or certifications means the applicant is actually competent.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  18. Re:Keep dreaming, fatboy by philspear · · Score: 1

    Submitter sounds like one of those people who moves to Hollywood wanting to become a star and end up whoring their asses to pay for snorting crank off of the sidewalk.

    Do many of those people have the insight (and bravery) to ask how to do it on a board frequented by people who actually work in the industry (and trolls)? Is the submitter saying he's going to move to, er, gaming town USA? Does he sound like he thinks writers, even on videogames, get paid more than bread and water?

    Hmm... Sounds like an AC is bitter at his utterly wasted life and hates the idea of a kid pursuing his dream job...

  19. It's hard by Junks+Jerzey · · Score: 1

    It's not that game developers don't want good writers...but they need writers who are willing to bend to all the quirks and problems of game development. Writing is easy compared to the work of creating art assets or programming. You'll find yourself having to revise and go off in different directions based on schedule restrictions and technical limitations. Your incredible plot point gets negated because it's deemed technically risky, and then you have to work around it without scrapping all the work that has been done so far.

    In general, developers prefer to have decent writers who understand how games are made than to have amazing writers who have no clue.

  20. Bioware's writers by whiplashx · · Score: 1

    I work at Bioware. The writers I know here got experience writing in various fields, such as novels. One guy was a storyboard artist on film sets.

    With this company, another option is to get your foot in the door with an entry job. Come on as an editor or a level designer, and if you do well you'll have the opportunity to move in the company.

    I don't speak for the company, this is just what I've seen and experienced myself.

  21. Re-write the following dialog in English by syousef · · Score: 4, Funny
    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    1. Re:Re-write the following dialog in English by syousef · · Score: 1

      What humourless inbred moron modded that as troll?

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  22. Interactive Storytelling ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Interactive storytelling could be a way to show you talents, without dealing with hard-core programming.

    Check out Storytron, a, interactive storytelling platform.

    1. Re:Interactive Storytelling ... by Laser+Lou · · Score: 0

      Interactive storytelling could be a way to show you talents, without dealing with hard-core programming.

      Check out Storytron , and the free authoring tool there called SWAT.

      (I posted the parent anonymously by mistake)

      --
      No data, no cry
  23. Interactive Fiction by mattack2 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Others have mentioned just writing.

    But for writing (and programming) a *game*, possibly writing a text adventure would be good practice. For example, using Inform (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inform), you can write games that practically anybody with any computer/PDA/etc. ever made can play.

    I think there is still at least one yearly contest (with a relatively tiny prize) for the best interactive fiction game.

  24. This may seem a bit too obvious, but... by Minwee · · Score: 1
    ...why don't you try writing some games?

    That's what writers do. Writers write. And then when they try to get jobs doing more writing, instead of just saying "I'm a good writer, honest! My mom thinks so!", they can say "Here are some samples of my work."

    You don't have to pull the next Bioshock out of your pants but it wouldn't hurt to rustle up some sort of tool kit which does all the hard and boring work for you, anything from NWN or HL2 to World Forge to FRUA or some cheezy flash-based RPG maker you found on a Korean web site one night while on a squishee bender, and just write something. Even if you think it sucks, just do it. That's how you get better.

    1. Re:This may seem a bit too obvious, but... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Because the script alone doesn't make a game. And not knowing what a game "needs", script-wise, makes it really difficult to write a good one for a game.

      I'm a programmer. I write games. No longer professionally, though. There is more money and less overtime in other fields, which leaves me more time to write the games I want to write.

      People who know me know that I do that and that means I get plastered on ICQ with requests to take a look at scripts. 99.9% thereof is useless. Some stories are just great. On paper. They don't work out because it leaves the player too little room to act. People don't want to click twice and then watch some great story unfold. They want to be part of the story.

      Some don't work because they are impossible to implement. Some ideas ("a planet, Earth-sized, noninstanced and free to travel anywhere") are easy to write but don't really fit on any contemporary hard drive. Or ram.

      Some leave me puzzled for a useable user interface. A fighting game that allows you to use any kind of martial arts there is at the same time is, in theory, possible, I just have no idea what kind of controller would allow you to control it.

      And so on.

      Just "write, write, write" is not going to do it. Talk with a programmer (but please, not me, I got enough) about your ideas. Don't just run it by him, work with him and listen to his input, especially when it comes to possibility. Whether it is entertaining is something you should "feel" yourself.

      A game doesn't need a great story. It needs a good story, preferably with a few twists and bends, but don't write for a movie. A movie is linear, despite its possible twists and bends, and needn't give the viewer any freedom of choice. A good game has to.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:This may seem a bit too obvious, but... by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      Then as I, and others, have mentioned, if you write a text adventure, AKA interactive fiction, you can beat out any video that won't "really fit on any contemporary hard drive. Or ram.[sic]"

  25. everyone wants to write/design by Surt · · Score: 1

    The problem is that the desire to do writing or design on games lives in just about every game developer out there. Some of them may be terrible at it, but they all want a chance to tell their story. So the opportunities to do this are all basically filled from within.

    --
    "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
  26. Mod points by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > And plenty of people are now getting 10 points in a single round of moderation, which makes it even easier.

    You can get 10 mod points!?

    Ever since they raised the cap, I only ever get 15 at a time. When I'm logged in, of course.

  27. The problem is structural by Jimmy_B · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The problem is not the writers, it's the structure in which they work. Games make part of the story unpredictable, through the player's choices. That's actually not such a problem; letting the player choose what to say and do just means more writing. The problem is when the player can choose who to talk to and who comes with him.

    Game writers don't know which conversations will happen, when they'll happen, or which characters will be there when it does. NPCs that travel with the player can't say much because their lines have to be optional, and the player can't say much without it feeling forced. The people the player meets can say all they want, but they can only say it to the player, who is almost certainly a stranger to them. The result is a long series of monologues directed at the player, most of which will be skipped or skimmed. That sucks, even if the monologues themselves are top notch.

    1. Re:The problem is structural by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to mention that a plot just barely good enough to be engaging in a 90-minute movie will simply not hold up in a game that takes 8-20 hours to complete. Game writers need to be better than TV drama writers, but typically are far worse.

    2. Re:The problem is structural by ultranova · · Score: 1

      The people the player meets can say all they want, but they can only say it to the player, who is almost certainly a stranger to them.

      No, they can also say it to someone else, and the player only happens to overhear the conversation ("So you used to be a stormtrooper, eh ?""Yeah, best decision of my life to join the Disciples of Ragnos."). They could also mistake the player for a spy ("So King Whatshisname sent you to spy on us. Well you're too late, our plans are already moving. The Capital will fall within a week !") or talk to him precisely because he's a stranger and thus the perfect guy to take the fall - this last option gives a nice adventure hook, too :).

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    3. Re:The problem is structural by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      It's even worse than that.

      Most writers I met have that urge to create and tell a great story. That's ok so far. Great stories, though, tend to be rather linear, forced to "fit". They have to fit in time, place and people involved to be good. People who have to be in the right place at the right time (or not be there, depends) to create the desired effect.

      When the player is supposed to search a room hastily and collect the relevant clue just in the nick of time before the guard comes around the corner, as we see so often in movies which creates oh so much beloved tension, that's almost impossible to implement in an enjoyable fashion. How can you do it? You can either let the player act for as long as he wants, and as soon as he has the clue the guard comes around the corner. No tension. No matter how much you tell the player that he has to hurry, once he notices that the game won't "push" him, he'll take his time. You could let the guard appear at some predetermined time, which results in a lot of try and error with lots of saving/loading taking place. No fun either. The "best" solution would be to let a different story unfold if the guard catches the player, which has the possiblity to create two (or more, depending on how he deals with the guard) different story threads that you have to sort out and create possible and credible results for. It makes no sense that the player shoots the guard without a silencer and nobody in the whole building notices it. Neither does it make sense that he is arrested by the guard and that he can later come back and get hired as a janitor and the guard doesn't recognize him.

      And that's now just a plain standard situation for tension. One single situation. Of a few hundred in a well scripted game.

      What a game writer has to do is find a way to keep the player involved and give him the feeling that he is in charge of his actions without making it near impossible to forsee all the possible decisions the player makes. You can't let the player do "everything", because you will end up with a few thousand possible threads you have to cover and create believable and possible continuation for. You also can't let the player "die" or "game-over fail" whenever he does something that wasn't "right" because the game feels linear and the player feels "punished" for doing the "wrong" thing (i.e. what the programmer doesn't want him to do).

      Creating a good story for a game mostly means that you give the player the idea that he has freedom of choice while eventually whatever choice he makes he ends up in a defined state that you can prepare for.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  28. Speaking from experience... by Aeonite · · Score: 5, Informative

    As a writer and designer currently in the game industry, let me show you my pokemons.

    I started off writing and designing pen-and-paper role-playing games, and writing a column for RPG.net. This helped me build a portfolio and greatly expanded my contact list. When the time came to enter the video game industry as a writer, those samples and references helped me get in.

    In my spare time I did as much writing and design as possible, in whatever areas I could get my hands on: news writing, graphic design, web design, and the creation of a fake fast-food franchise run by ninja named Ninja Burger ( http://www.ninjaburger.com/ ). Again, when the time came to get into video games, all that experience helped immensely. Design is design; writing is writing. The more you do of each, the better you get at it. I wrote about games, I designed games... I even co-wrote and co-designed a MUD ( http://www.iconoclast.org/ ), but my time spent designing church bulletins, editing news columns, writing copy for a comic book catalog and doing technical writing all helped me learn not just the ropes, but all the knots as well.

    In the end, breaking in for me came down to being in the right place at the right time. A friend of mine worked for a game company, and she got me the interview, but at that point it was up to me to close the deal, and my portfolio, references and samples were what did that.

    In short, you can't wait by the stream for the ship to come in. You need to build your own raft, and when the ship sails by, you need to paddle yourself out to it.

    Get ready by reading some books on game writing and design. I've reviewed a bunch of them for Slashdot over the years:

    http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/11/25/0046222

    http://books.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/01/31/1445235

    http://books.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/12/05/1420215

    http://books.slashdot.org/books/06/02/27/1445214.shtml

    http://books.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/18/149246

    http://books.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/09/09/0527214

    1. Re:Speaking from experience... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, Iconoclast -- I remember the quality of the writing being quite good on that MUD, despite having last logged in a decade ago. Glad to hear that you ended up getting a job in the industry!

    2. Re:Speaking from experience... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      May I kiss you?

      I 3 ninjaburger.

  29. What you should really be aiming for... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is to be an excellent writer in general. Working for a game company should be an afterthought.
    If you are really passionate about writing then you should have many examples of writing work that you have produced over the years. Perhaps you have written short stories or a few chapters of a novel? Perhaps you've written articles or technical documents? You will likely be somebody who reads a lot and gets inspired by great writing.
    If you don't already have a general passion for writing then what are you really looking for? You are looking to work for a game company. That's all. You aren't looking to be a writer, you are looking to have the easiest job inside the most envied industry in the world.
    Don't let me crush your dream. I hope you really do get a writing job at a game company, but thousands of people are in your position and most of them probably can't out-write a random programmer in a game company, let alone an experienced professional writer.

  30. You're writing needs to improve. by Animats · · Score: 3, Insightful

    One of the biggest complaints I hear from 'discerning' gamers is how few and far between well-written games are. Titles like Mass Effect and the Black Isle series just appear far too rarely. Writing and storyboarding are aspects of the industry that have always appealed to me -- I'm an enthusiastic hobby gamer with a real passion for well-developed games. But there's very little guidance out there on getting exposure as a writer in this world. I'm interested in working in the field, freelance/part time initially as I break in, then with an eye to professional employ after a time. My questions to you are: How can I get involved in writing for the game industry? Are there any game startups out there with good design but weak story that could use writing help from a college graduate? How do the big guys get people to write for them -- am I just going to the wrong booths at the job fairs? What kind of degrees or relevant experience in the field are they looking for? Should I just put on my Planescape t-shirt and stand outside in the rain?"

    You don't write well enough. Go re-read Strunk. You should be writing at least this well:

    Well-written games are few and far between. Mass Effect and the Black Isle series do have good writing, but they're exceptions, not the rule.

    Writing and storyboarding appeal to me. I'm an hobby gamer with a passion for well-developed games. But there's little guidance on getting into the game world as a writer. I'm interested in freelance/part time work as I break in, then professional employ.

    How can I get into writing for the game industry? Are there game startups with good design but weak story? How do the big guys find writers? Am I going to the wrong booths at the job fairs? What degrees or experience are game companies looking for? Should I just put on my Planescape T-shirt and stand outside in the rain?

    You need a tough English teacher, or a tough editor, to make you tighten up your prose.

    1. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by melikamp · · Score: 1

      Good grief, you are right, he has more things to worry about than the cutthroat industry. "Employ" is not even a noun.

    2. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by LMariachi · · Score: 1

      It's a little archaic/British, but "employ" can be a noun, as in "Jeeves is no longer in our employ." But in context of the post it would have been better as "employment."

    3. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      One of the biggest complaints I hear from 'discerning' gamers is how few and far between well-written games are. Titles like Mass Effect and the Black Isle series just appear far too rarely. Writing and storyboarding are aspects of the industry that have always appealed to me -- I'm an enthusiastic hobby gamer with a real passion for well-developed games. But there's very little guidance out there on getting exposure as a writer in this world. I'm interested in working in the field, freelance/part time initially as I break in, then with an eye to professional employ after a time. My questions to you are: How can I get involved in writing for the game industry? Are there any game startups out there with good design but weak story that could use writing help from a college graduate? How do the big guys get people to write for them -- am I just going to the wrong booths at the job fairs? What kind of degrees or relevant experience in the field are they looking for? Should I just put on my Planescape t-shirt and stand outside in the rain?"

      You don't write well enough. Go re-read Strunk. You should be writing at least this well:


      Well-written games are few and far between. Mass Effect and the Black Isle series do have good writing, but they're exceptions, not the rule.


      Writing and storyboarding appeal to me. I'm an hobby gamer with a passion for well-developed games. But there's little guidance on getting into the game world as a writer. I'm interested in freelance/part time work as I break in, then professional employ.


      How can I get into writing for the game industry? Are there game startups with good design but weak story? How do the big guys find writers? Am I going to the wrong booths at the job fairs? What degrees or experience are game companies looking for? Should I just put on my Planescape T-shirt and stand outside in the rain?

      You need a tough English teacher, or a tough editor, to make you tighten up your prose.

      I mean... "you're writing"? ...

    4. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You can't really critique someone's writing if you mistake "you're" for "your"...

    5. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by wildebeest · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Wow, would Strunk & White teach me how to write like a pedantic jerk too?
      Lets think what literature/creative writing would be like if all authors followed The Elements of Style as closely as you do.
      Ulysses: Leopold Bloom goes to a funeral and then goes home to piss on his shrubbery.
      Moby-Dick: Ahab seeks revenge against a white whale and is rather unsuccessful.
      Lolita: A guy named Humbert Humbert really likes having sex with little girls.

      Man, my versions are better because they are more concise; who needs adjectives? I wish all those authors were still alive so I could correct their bloated prose.

    6. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by subversified · · Score: 1

      Do you suppose the "You're" in the headline was meant to be funny?

    7. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "You're writing" needs to improve?

    8. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by Veggiesama · · Score: 1

      It's called revision, and the best writers are masters of it.

      Unfortunately, Slashdot doesn't have an "edit" button, and maybe he's just a lazy first-draft writer, and maybe the guy was late for his writer's workshop because he was too busy typing up a post on Slashdot; maybe he was too busy reliving his youth by playing Planescape in his head; maybe he was thinking about how damn funny that floating, talking skull was; maybe he almost sacrificed the talking skull on that pillar of other talking skulls but then got him back because he missed that damn talking skull so damn much.

      Maybe that's why he couldn't be bothered to tighten up his prose right now just for you.

    9. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by superc0w · · Score: 1

      You're speeling needs to imporve befour you critize someone else four not writing weel enuff. Mixing up "your" and "you're" is unpardonable.

    10. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by Team503 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And Animats, while your writing may be technically more proper, it reads like a technical manual. It's boring, has no understanding of phrasing, and is entirely too staccato. While the OP's "prose" may not be "tight" enough for you, it's far more enjoyable than your rewrite. His post is a narrative - it defines subjects, conflict, and goals, and most especially creates a personal and emotional connection with him as a person more so than as a reporter. What you, and most "tough" English teachers miss, and what good editors and Literature profs know, is that English (like any language) is a living, breathing, thing. It exists to express the entirety of the human experience, and while it may be insufficient to the task, it should not be treated like good code. It should be emotional, intriguing, and involving, not overly precise and obsessed with following the rules. OP - Remember that writers aren't reporters, and fiction writers aren't publishing technical manuals or peer-reviewed journals. Tell your story, and make the reader care. If you do that, everything else is secondary.

    11. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by Triv · · Score: 1

      And while we're at it, you need to learn when to treat words that begin with an "H" as if they begin with a vowel and when not to.

      "An honor" is correct. "An historic" is correct.

      "An hobby" is not.

    12. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You too.

      Check the title of your own post.

    13. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Re:You're writing needs to improve.

      You need a tough English teacher(,) or a tough editor(,) to make you tighten up your prose.

    14. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by Clovert+Agent · · Score: 1

      Irony, thy name is Slashdot.

      Your writing. Possessive pronouns do not take an apostrophe: its, his, your, etc.

    15. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 1

      You are the one being pedantic. While the GP's edits were unnecessarily (and I'm sure he'd quibble with my use of an adverb there, but I couldn't bear to cut it) drastic, his point was valid. The summary was poorly written.

    16. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doe's he, realy, nead to, worsenize, he's gramar like that?

    17. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "A hobby gamer" is correct. You wouldn't use "an" there any more than you would "an horse." An is used based on a leading vowel sound in the next word. Hobby doesn't qualify unless you're cockney.

    18. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by freedom_india · · Score: 1

      You Dumbass. This is slashdot, not Shakespeare & e.e.cummings Forum.
      Shove your prim & proper English usage up your as$ and concentrate on Simplified English.
      Didn't the Paperwork Reduction Act teach you anything? oh screw that. Didn't Churchill teach you anything?
      Simple words are the best.
      Go read "The River War" or the "My Early Life".
      I hate grammar nazis, especially when they think they have mastered the queen's language without knowing shit about it.
       

      --
      "Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
    19. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "You're writing needs to improve. (Score:4, Insightful)"

      "You're", seriously?

      Here is an example of correct use:
      "I'm not sure _you're_ qualified to be trolling the OP on his writing style."

    20. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by farker+haiku · · Score: 1

      You're writing needs to improve.
      But there's little guidance on getting into the game world as a writer.

      There are two someones that need a tough English teacher.

      The first rule of slashdot grammar flaming is: You do not fuck up the grammar or spelling in your post.
      The second rule of slashdot grammar flaming is: You DO NOT fuck up the grammar or spelling in your post!

      --
      Your sig(k) has been stolen. There is a puff of smoke!
    21. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "An historic" is correct.

      Not really.

    22. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Maybe that's why he couldn't be bothered to tighten up his prose right now just for you.

      He shouldn't tighten up his prose just for Animats, he should tighten up his prose because there's no other way to improve.

      To put it bluntly: if he can't be bothered to write a few dozen line long Ask Slashdot summary well, then perhaps he should not be looking for a writing job. Why shoot for a job which is such a bother to him ?

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    23. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You need a tough English teacher, or a tough editor, to make you tighten up your prose.

      Please tell me what school you went to. From my experience, most school teachers want you to fill a certain number of pages, even if it means filling most of those pages with fluff.

    24. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by Clover_Kicker · · Score: 1

      He wants to write games, where it's very important to communicate your ideas quickly.

      If you want to convey extra details with the art, music, sound etc. that's awesome, but any dialog should be short and sweet.

    25. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by Team503 · · Score: 1

      Being concise is important to any writer, true. That doesn't mean dialog should read like a three year old on a typewriter.

    26. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by Clover_Kicker · · Score: 1

      There's a middle ground.

      Go download a NWN module written by someone with literary pretensions- dialogs drone on and on and on, because you the player must be shown how brilliant the module writer is.

      I'd say a good video game writer is the one who can pack the most meaning, the most nuance, into the fewest words.

      Here's a paragraph of Dickens...

      Oh! But he was a tight-fisted hand at the grind- stone, Scrooge! a squeezing, wrenching, grasping, scraping, clutching, covetous, old sinner! Hard and sharp as flint, from which no steel had ever struck out generous fire; secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.

      Great text.

      The cold within him froze his old features, nipped his pointed nose, shriveled his cheek, stiffened his gait; made his eyes red, his thin lips blue and spoke out shrewdly in his grating voice. A frosty rime was on his head, and on his eyebrows, and his wiry chin.

      Great description, we pass this on to the art department so they can bring it to life. Now we don't need these words narrated to the player.

    27. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by Team503 · · Score: 1

      Pointedly, neither of those examples are dialogue.

    28. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by Clover_Kicker · · Score: 1

      sometimes you don't even need dialog to tell the story...

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGE8wVTvHF0&feature=related

    29. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by Team503 · · Score: 1

      I don't think Loony Tunes is relevant to the discussion on video games, or the post about the writer for video games. But thanks for playing!

    30. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by Clover_Kicker · · Score: 1

      I bow to your wisdom, why would anyone writing for video games be interested in a medium that uses text, voice, music and art to tell a story?

    31. Re:You're writing needs to improve. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Surely if you're going to be the one that jumps in and criticises someone else's writing ability you'd be certain not to make any mistakes yourself.

      Additionally, given the risk of sounding condescending, it may have been best just to throw a lone rope of constructive criticism rather than rewriting the post in it's entirety.

      Other than that, good work, I was thinking it myself. There's nothing wrong with being a critic when your point is orchestrated correctly.

      (Not intentionally anonymous, just lazy. I'll reply to any comments.)

  31. Few people know how to write for games. by jrhawk42 · · Score: 2, Informative

    In the past studios have tried going the "professional writer" route, and got stung pretty badly so there's quite the stigma against hiring professional writers in most studios. Today the common attempt is to find somebody in house with a bit of writing talent, and hand off the job to them. Depending on the writers (often there's quite a few) method works more than hiring a professional writer, but not enough to say it actually works. At least you're budget isn't hurt. Writing for games is no easy task and typical writers can't write for games. Too often they try to control the audience which will never work well in an interactive medium. There's also the problem of studio interference with ruins a project. Heads try to shape a project to their whimsical idea of what should happen yet they never stick around to actually hash out a complete idea then they come back 6 months later and wonder why everything is crap. I'm sure film has this same problem, but at least with film you can change things with relative ease. If you try changing something in a game all hell breaks loose. My advice is to break into the game industry, and after 7 or 8 months (or years) something might open up.

  32. Job offers came to me that way as well. by PIPBoy3000 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I got multiple job offers after writing Dreamcatcher, including Bioware. Valve also encourages people to develop mods, and have hired many of the more successful people.

    That being said, being published in other areas can help as well, though I still feel that writing for games is a very different skill set than typical writing.

    1. Re:Job offers came to me that way as well. by wisty · · Score: 1

      So how do the movie script writers get picked? Do they take acting lessons, get buff, play as an extra, learn to edit sound, shoot scenes, and generally learn the ropes; or is there another career path? (I'm not mentioning schmoozing or sexual favors, as I would assume that all the career paths in Hollywood would entail a mix of these).

      It seems that game writers are expected to learn everything about game writing, just to have the privilege of seeing their work on the liquid crystal screen. There are plenty of flakes and wannabes, I bet, but Hollywood seems to cope OK (I think the line is "Don't call us, we'll call you").

    2. Re:Job offers came to me that way as well. by krazykong · · Score: 1

      Hey, my wife and I played Dreamcatcher together a few years ago, that was a wonderful NWN module.

  33. I've been trying to hire a good writer for months. by dotNet · · Score: 1

    I make a simple web game and would love a good consistently funny writer. A writer who can write SHORT PUNCHY zingers, not the novelists referred to in comments above.

    I keep posting on Craigslist, but can't find a writer who both "Gets it" and can constantly make me laugh. I've hired several people who send a wonderful sample, perfectly fitting my spec, but after that the quality tends to go downhill fast.

    As a result, instead of a consistent style, the writing across my game is a patchwork of different writers edited together by me, the developer. (Yes, I require writers to surrender all rights and ownership of all writing I buy. Of course.)

    I would love hire a good writer who can give me a few dozen lines of funny dialog every month or two. So far the best writing has come from my house-mate, free of charge, but he doesn't give me enough fresh content.

    The game is www.brainchef.com
    Anyone is encouraged to look at the format and then contact me in game (player #1, if you're a player of the game you'll find me easily).

    This game is my hobby, so pay more like "pocket change" than "full time job" (again, see the comments above) but it's a great opportunity to get started as a professional game writer.

    N7z

    --
    http://www.brainchef.com A fun free game
  34. credible by Dgawld · · Score: 1

    If you are as good of a writer as you think, write a book, hopefully it sells a couple thousand copies; maybe you can get some kind of award for it. Use that as your credibility to writing and i am sure you will get somewhere.

  35. Show off your chops via the pyweek contest. by jafo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Every 6 months pyweek.org runs a game contest. Join forces with a team that has the programming side but needs someone for the story side of it.

    Seems like it would be the perfect way to show off and hone you skills.

    Sean

    1. Re:Show off your chops via the pyweek contest. by SparkleMotion88 · · Score: 1

      Translation: Try to find a group of people who believe they are smart enough to write code, but not smart enough to write an interesting story.

      For those reading who don't know any programmers and therefore don't get the joke: such people don't exist.

  36. most games have no plot nor do people care by jollyreaper · · Score: 1

    I'm in the minority who really digs a good plot but we are a sadly ignored lot. I should think the same thing holds true for movies and games -- make it good, make it funny, they will probably come. One of the early incarnations of Doom was going to have a huge amount of story, plotting, etc, and the disagreement with that dev was so strong he was booted from id. Now there are many who praise Doom as an amazing, ground-breaking shooter, even moreso than Wolf3D and it defined the genre, and this is true. But the very things that were left out of Doom were left out of Doom2 and all of the other knock-offs. I wasn't impressed by another shooter until Half-Life. Note that Half-Life 2 had no frickin' plot, or at least one worthy of the name. Half-Life 1 made you care if your Barneys survived, that's how good it was. Half-Life 2 made you with your squaddies dead because they got in the way and were a waste.

    A personal fav of mine in the action world is Boondock Saints. Now there have been hundreds of violent crime movies out there, just movie after movie of forgettable crap. But that movie was great. The combination of great actors, great script, great pacing, it just made the whole thing enjoyable from start to finish. It's one of my all-time favs.

    That being said, most movies get along just fine without a script. Transformers sprang fully formed from the ass of Michael Bay like some sort of scatological Minerva. It was the most god-awful combination of hackwork and derivative crap stealing from a dozen different movies, congealed and held fast only due to the compressive power of that fuckspat's colon. It's like a shit diamond. Not a whit of thought went into that movie and it yet it did extremely well at the box office.

    If you don't have any connections to get you into the industry, the best thing you could probably do is start building your portfolio. The suggestion made above about making some dialog in the scripting tools the company provides is excellent. But more generically, start writing scripts in general. Put your ideas on paper, build worlds. If you can draw, put together some storyboards. If you can do computer modeling, any of the creative stuff they would need for the game, start creating examples there. People have been hired directly on account of the quality of work they've done with fan-mods. You get your foot in the door that way, then it's easier to say "hey, need any help with the script on this game?"

    Just remember the following:

    1) Odds are, you're not going to get hired.
    2) If you get hired, this is an industry that chews up lives and shits out the remains.
    3) If you think you're irreplaceable, check to see if your name is John Carmack. If it isn't, you're aren't. There's a thousand people in line begging for the chance to deal with the crap you're putting up with.
    4) The games industry is a business and the bean-counters don't give a shit about art. You'll be shoving uninspired, insipid crap out the door because you have a ship date, nothing more. This is the sort of thing that makes you die by inches until there's nothing left.

    So, good luck!

    --
    Kwisatz Haderach
    Sell the spice to CHOAM
    This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
  37. I completely agree by keithburgun · · Score: 1

    ...Except that Black Isle isn't a series, it was a development studio. (BTW, Black Isle lead design Leonard Boyarsky is now working for Blizzard on Diablo 3... may be interesting.) I write frequently about this exact topic on my blog The Expensive Planetarium (www.expensiveplanetarium.com). There's so much focus on the quote "casual" gamer these days, and that word doesn't mean what it should to these people. Ideally, every game should be quick to learn, and difficult to master. Today it's "retarded to learn, retarded to master." Let Tetris DS prove this to anyone who doubts my claim. Even though Tetris was a "casual game" when it came out back in the 80's, it had incredible depth and is as much fun to play today. The latest incarnation, driven by the 'casual fury', 'Tetris DS' is seriously a goddamn joke. Not only do you have SIX count em SIX "Next" boxes, AND a little "reserve" box where you can swap out a piece that you don't like, but get this: you can perpetually spin the piece at the bottom and it will never lock as long as you keep hitting a button. I'm serious. So therefore, the speed of the level means nothing. Not only that but you cannot turn any of these features off.

  38. why on earth...? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Feeling a little over-appreciated, over-paid, work too few hours and work conditions too good?

  39. Sturgeon's Law Applies by Maple+Syrup · · Score: 1

    "One of the biggest complaints I hear from 'discerning' gamers is how few and far between well-written games are.

    Look, Sturgeon's Law applies to games writing as much as it does to Science Fiction. Perhaps even more so.

    If you're interested in in raising the level of writing in games, then you'll need to find a company to work for that's interested in that too.

    Just don't expect Sturgeon's Law to be violated any time soon.

  40. Game Design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    I work in the industry. With cartoons, it's a director. With games, it's a games designer. Trust me on this one, companies hire when they see talent. Develop a portfolio, or "demo reel" and show that to companies. Some of the larger studios I've worked for have employed writers on a contract basis, but it sounds like you're talking more about shaping the look and feel of a game, and that's a game designer. So, show your creative side. Write stories. Develop your own board games, or RPG games, or Pokemon/Magic style card games. Put all this in your reel. Team up with an artist, and produce a few "one sheets", or a sheet of paper that demonstrates a game concept graphically, and verbally. Show that you can take a group of artists and programmers, and provide top level direction on exactly what they're producing.

    1. Re:Game Design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn, this is one of the best posts I've seen on this topic. The Coward sounds like he/she knows what they're talking about, and it's only moderated at 1??? Why is it that a shitty off topic one liner gets a 5, and this one gets a 1??? Dude.

  41. Re:YOUR writing needs to improve. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Luckily YOU'RE not applying for the job either, with YOUR proper use of English...

  42. IGDA Writing Special Interest Group by subversified · · Score: 1
    I'm Chair of the International Game Developer's Special Interest Group. It's a trade organization with the goal of improving the state of the art of writing in games. http://www.igda.org/writing/

    We've published two books (already mentioned above) about how to break in, and how to do the job. Our mailing list is always an interesting place to talk about where games and writing intersect. The point is - there are quite a few people taking a look at this problem. It's just not as simple as it seems.

    1. Re:IGDA Writing Special Interest Group by DragonTHC · · Score: 1

      what, specifically, should we have in our portfolio? short stories? novellas? screenplays? writing exercises?

      Types of plots? Genre of fiction?

      --
      They're using their grammar skills there.
    2. Re:IGDA Writing Special Interest Group by subversified · · Score: 1
      Well, first I recommend focusing a bit. What kinds of games do you want to write for? ("Any game!" isn't a good answer.) Focus your portfolio to reflect the kind of game you're aiming at. If you want to write for fantasy RPGs, consider including a short story set in a fantasy world. If you'd rather write for a WWII buddy action game, include samples reflecting that genre.

      And please consider including game-related samples, not just short stories and screenplays. Write character descriptions. Describe a level. Write a complete screenplay that's less than five pages long. And if you're brave, make your own Interactive Fiction.

      Specific studios often have their own writing test, so be ready to write something new for each job you apply for, too.

      Hope this helps!

  43. From my small experience... by andhow · · Score: 1

    On the bright side, you didn't say "I want to be a game designer." That always had a touch of arrogance to it coming from anyone but an existing game designer. But in general, if a job seems like a dream job for you and 100 million other people, and there are no large barriers to climb, it is going to be hard to be taken seriously on passion alone. In a way, we programmers have it easy, since a few nice demos and good answers to hard questions are a quick way to get your foot in the door. So, even though I'm really speaking outside my experience here, my advice for an aspiring writer would be to find something that makes it immediately evident to your prospective employer that you have invested serious time and energy in something that wasn't all fun and bubbles. Case and point, I had a game interview where the interviewer was evidently delighted by the *lack* of 20 cute languages and web technologies on my resume. So, perhaps find an open source or local student game project?

  44. Get started by solid_liq · · Score: 1

    As someone said, get a portfolio together to show companies. More importantly, follow how the coders get into the field: they write demo programs. Search around for opensource gaming projects which need a writer, and write for the opensource game. Make it good, and you can use that as a big feather in your cap to break into the industry. I suggest diving right in, too, rather than dipping your toes in with part-time stuff. Game developers make really good money. There's a Game Developer (I think that's the name) magazine too. I suggest you subscribe to that to get more insight into the industry. Also, look on usenet. People interested in coding for games talk on usenet, a LOT. Ask people there, and look for groups about game writing.

  45. Ripping guts out is in. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow.

    PITA made me realize that ripping guts out is awesome in a video game.

    It must be 100x better in real life.

    Disemboweling I will go,
    disemboweling I will go!
    High ho the dairy o,
    Disemboweling I will go.

     

  46. Computer Assisted Storyboarding by eulernet · · Score: 2, Informative

    One of my game designer colleagues (now a successful comic writer) suggested to use programs for storyboarding.

    My colleague uses Dramatica http://www.dramatica.com/
    but it seems Movie Magic Screenwriter is more suitable for movies/series http://www.screenplay.com/
    There is also an open source alternative:
    http://celtx.com/

    These programs direct you in your writing, and are also able to suggest plots.

    He strongly recommends that you MUST follow rules to write a storyboard.
    These programs are perfect for forcing you to declare all interactions, and it also eases the addition of new characters.
    Of course, the programs won't write the storyboard for you.

    Find an appealing plot, then build some charismatic heroes.
    Good luck !

  47. Learn to Write and Shoot Film by BlueBoxSW.com · · Score: 1

    Seriously. The best games are cinematic because they borrow heavily from elements of cinema. Enroll in a film program. Learn to write, character development, storyboarding, and to shoot.

    Then find an opportunity to use the skills in a game. The rest will come.

  48. Games with mass appeal by 192939495969798999 · · Score: 1

    First, you have to get rid of the idea that writing a great game has anything to do with any genre, graphics, etc.
    'Mass Effect' and 'the Black Isle' are decent, but they are not "great games". An example of a great game is Tetris. The income of Tetris and its various incarnations eclipse pretty much any other game, and yet its simplicity is one of its most appealing characteristics.

    Tetris has true mass appeal... and you only need to write one game with that attribute to be set for life, be it extremely complex, or quite plain in the original implementation.

    --
    stuff |
  49. Determined to Succeed? Prove it! by Wyck · · Score: 1

    Start writing! Be prolific and build your portfolio.

    Then you have to learn how to pitch your stories. It's brutally hard -- but study a little philosophy and learn what gets and keeps peoples focus. The content is easy, VG entertainment is mostly escapism; the problem is that your best writing will come from writing what you know, which may not align with what interests other people, so just appeal to the fundamentals of human nature. Polish your silver tongue, weave a tangled web, then sell, sell, sell!

    If I were hiring, I would hope to meet an inspiring individual who can capture my attention with their imagination.

    I think you're going to the right places, but it sounds like you don't have self-marketing confidence.

    Half my point here is: don't wait for someone to tell you to get involved -- just get involved. The rest of my point is that you need to SHOW your passion. You need to tell people some stories.

  50. Old Planetfall Joke by Heffenfeffer · · Score: 1

    ZORK!

    Gesundheit!

  51. Comic Books seem the way to go.... by foniksonik · · Score: 1

    Get in to writing for a Comic Publisher.... it's got everything you need to position yourself for Games, Movies, Novels, TV Series, Cartoons.. did I say Movies? Yeah those too.

    Comic books are full of short dialogue, they rely on storyboards (quite literally) to tell the other half of the story (just like movies and games) and yet each issue isn't a multi-million dollar undertaking so the barrier to entry should be much lower (they'll give you a chance many more times cause you won't be screwing up the big bang).

    While you're writing for a comic book, you can team up with an artist and put together some good scripts for game mods, maybe a graphic novel or two and a screenplay.

    When you've got something looking nice see if you can get it in front of the right people.

    Always start at the top - find out the home address of the people you want it to be seen by - not the most famous person, the one who looks at these things critically. Mail it to them with some nice packaging and a good executive summary. Then follow up with an email or two.

    --
    A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
    1. Re:Comic Books seem the way to go.... by foniksonik · · Score: 1

      One more thing.... maybe start an online comic. It's cheap to do... doesn't require massive art skills and will get you 1000x more publicity than anything else you could imagine.

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
    2. Re:Comic Books seem the way to go.... by foniksonik · · Score: 1

      BTW, I'm an artist... I'd be interested in drawing a comic for a good writer. Email me at info at emenoh dot com.

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
  52. Maybe you could help us out.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You gotta any samples bro?

    http://www.polyglotstudios.com

    But don't be thinking we're big-tiome, as we're also trying like Hell to get that big first break.

  53. Incompetence [Was: Re:No] by Haelyn · · Score: 1

    When you earnestly believe you can compensate for a lack of skill by doubling your efforts, there's no end to what you can't do.

    (source: http://www.despair.com/incompetence.html)

  54. Blizzard had a recruiting booth at BlizzCon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was at BlizzCon last month and noticed that Blizzard had set up a recruiting booth where people could go to talk to Blizzard reps and fill out applications.

    World of Warcraft actually has some pretty good writing in places.

  55. status of open-source engines? by peter303 · · Score: 1

    I recall some activity years ago, but haven't followed it or used them. If there were some good ones out there, you might be able to sketch out your own game.

    I recall reading about some college classes using such to teach the basic elements of video game authoring. They were powerful enough that students could do something instructive and interesting in ten weeks.

  56. Interactive Fiction by StaticEngine · · Score: 1

    Go grab Inform (v6 or v7, depending on your proficiency with C-type programming languages) or TADS, and write away. The community is small, but highly focused on excellent story, grammar, spelling, and originality. It's the easiest and least expensive way to display not only top notch writing skills, but also an understanding of the vast array of possibilities for user interaction with the world in modern games, and that you can write your way into and out of any situation that could occur.

  57. Open source game projects by Archwyrm · · Score: 1

    If you are looking to build a portfolio to show off to prospective employers, I think there is no better way to build one than participating in one of many open source gaming projects out there. Obviously others have suggested mods and successful mods that have gained commercial interest, but this is a very tiny percent of all the mods made, and a fractional one of mods started. At least with an open source project posted on SourceForge or something else there is no chance of the project which you have invested a good deal of time and work into disappearing overnight as happens with many mod 'teams'. Not to mention the usual advantages of FOSS development.

    So, you might take a look around at what sorts of projects are available and prove to the gaming industry that you have what it takes to write for a game project. I happen to work on a TES: Daggerfall inspired project called DungeonHack and we are always 'hiring'. ;)

    --
    Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power. -- Mussolini
  58. The best book about it by SkippityDooDah · · Score: 0

    I must say so, even though I edited it and sold it myself. Written by two of the best game writers in the business, who have also written and sold a lot of film and TV as well. https://www.amazon.com/dp/158065066X Skip www.skippress.com

  59. Make your own by Master+Rux · · Score: 1

    You could start your own game to put in your portfolio like the author of http://wittyrpg.com/ did.

    --
    IMO the best browser game ever http://wittyrpg.com
  60. No such position as "writer" by softegg · · Score: 1

    Most companies don't have a dedicated "writer". They have "designers" who happen to write dialog as well as handling their other duties ( making maps, building levels, specing monsters, scripting, etc.)

    Designer is the second lowest paid position in the company, just above QA, and below production, sound, art, and programming. That is because there are a million kids who want to design, and are willing to work for free. Also, if you have a resume as a "game designer" there aren't really any other industries you can work in, whereas everybody else has other options.

    Are you sure you want to do this?

  61. College might be a good first step? by Antlerbot · · Score: 1
    I, for one, am majoring in English, taking creative writing courses (with some philosophy courses thrown in for good measure. Hello Bioshock!) and, of course, playing arse-tons of videogames.

    To...uh...study their scripts, of course. Yeah.