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The State of UK Broadband — Not So Fast

Barence writes "The deplorable speed of British broadband connections has been revealed in the latest figures from the Office of National Statistics, which show that 42.3% of broadband connections are slower than 2Mb/sec. More worryingly, the ONS statistics are based on the connection's headline speed, not actual throughput, which means that many more British broadband connections are effectively below the 2Mb/sec barrier. Better still, a separate report issued yesterday by Ofcom revealed that the majority of broadband users had no idea about the speed of their connection anyway."

34 of 279 comments (clear)

  1. Before or after throttling? by AlterRNow · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Because during my download of Fedora 10, Virgin Media will throttle my connection from 8 to 2 ( mb/s ) and put my ping time ( to Google ) into the 2 second range.

    --
    The disappearing pencil trick. Let me show you it.
    1. Re:Before or after throttling? by David+Gerard · · Score: 4, Funny

      But Virgin offers a new sixteen megabit DSL service! That's sixteen megabits total, of course.

      I'm just picturing Virgin's 'thinking.' "We've heard that you can use things called 'computers' to send messages and even pictures. That'd be a good service to offer! We have this bloke in facilities who knows a bit about computers, we could get him to run it between refilling the coffee machines. If we tried, we could probably make it as reliable as our telly. Nobody really minds when the football drops out ten minutes before the end, do they."

      Virgin: "We've Never Done It Before, And We Don't Really Know How To."

      --
      http://rocknerd.co.uk
    2. Re:Before or after throttling? by Firkragg14 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Im on virgin and yes they will throttle your download if you download more than a certain number of gigabytes between their busiest times which is fair enough. I prefer that to a download limit dont you. In my experience though it doesnt alter my ping so you have some other problem going on there. My tip with virgin is to do any of your large downloading in the evening or at night.

    3. Re:Before or after throttling? by leenks · · Score: 4, Interesting

      But it is all fibre optic! The advert says it is, so it must be quick!

      Quite how Virgin can get away with saying their broadband is fibre optic when the last loop is copper is beyond me. It's about time the ASA did what they are supposed to do - BT broadband is fibre optic by their interpretation of things!

    4. Re:Before or after throttling? by Mushdot · · Score: 2, Informative

      I've been really happy with my Virgin connection. I've never had an unannounced loss of service and my downloading speeds stay pretty constant, though not near the actual speed of the advertised package im on. I get my broadband and tv through a cable point which I think would increase the reliability?

      I agree that I would rather have my speed throttled than penalised in some other way. The only bummer is when you hit your limit when there's only a small part of a file left to go and you have to wait another hour for it to trickle through.

      I also noticed I was getting 800k/s download speeds the other night and then got an email from Virgin telling me they had upgraded my broadband speed for free, so I can't complain too much.

    5. Re:Before or after throttling? by AlterRNow · · Score: 2, Informative

      I don't know about your experience but going from ( download ) 1000kb/s -> 30Kb/s and ( upload ) 45kb/s -> 11kb/s looks like throttling to me.

      --
      The disappearing pencil trick. Let me show you it.
    6. Re:Before or after throttling? by ndixon · · Score: 2, Informative

      BT deny any form of throttling, yet if I download at any time of day via FTP I get ~450kB/s, it is morning now and with HTTP I can get 300kB/s, in the evening more like 50-80kB/s. Crazy, seems BT throttle port 80.

      Deny?

      BT's Fair Usage Policy states:

      BT continuously monitors network performance and may restrict the speed available to very heavy users during peak time.

      ... and they explicitly mention P2P:

      we restrict P2P speeds if it's having a negative impact on the online experience of the majority of our customers. We normally place restrictions in the evenings at peak time, but we do apply them during the day if a lot of customers are using P2P at the same time.

      ...

      we are not stopping you from using any P2P service. P2P will just be slowed down in the evenings and during the day if a lot of customers are using it.

      You might not have looked hard enough to find this, but that doesn't make it a denial.

      My BT Broadband connection gives me about 6.5MB/s for non-P2P traffic, but that's because I'm only about 1/4 mile from the exchange.

      P2P is slower than dial-up in the evenings, but is generally fast enough between midnight and 8am, and even to late morning on Saturday/Sunday, so I just schedule my big BT downloads to run overnight.

      --
      Oh, how convenient: a theory about God that doesn't involve looking through a telescope.
    7. Re:Before or after throttling? by _xeno_ · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Beats me, but Comcast is doing that here in the US too in response to Verizon building actual fiber to the home. They have this weird graphic of various colored lines springing up all across the US which I guess "proves" they have "the largest fiber optic network."

      It's actually kind of pathetic. Granted I think Comcast's point is supposed to be that they do TV better than Verizon - thereby saving themselves from "truth in advertising" laws. Still, that has nothing to do with using a fiber optic network. And they certainly don't offer comparable Internet speeds.

      I find it kind of funny that two companies are pulling the "but we use fiber optics somewhere in our network!" card.

      In Comcast's case it may be more pathetic, since the ads are sort of like the Mac vs PC ads: you've got the "fiber optic" guy who's hopped up on "light" (he's glowing and flickering), and then you have the "down-to-earth" Comcast guy. After making fun of the fiber optic guy, Comcast then announces that they, too, use fiber optics. At best, I would think that makes them equal. But what do I know, I'm not the charismatic down-to-earth guy.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
  2. Tell it to the people who cannot get broadband by tagishsimon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Concerned as I am with slow speeds, I'm more concerned that I cannot at home get broadband at all because there's insufficient regulation of the monopoly landline supplier. BT is not interested in fixing the twisted pair arriving at my house such that ADSL will work. The UK government is not interested in extending the Universal Service Obligation - the thing that forces the monopoly to connect you to the phone system for voice calls - to broadband.

    HMG's insistence that broadband is of economic and social importance is just so much humbug and cant if they will not bother themselves to lift a regulatory finger to ensure that the whole population can access at least a basic service.

    Perish the thought that the vast additional profit arising out of millions of DSL connections should be put towards improving the basic infrastructure.

    But I can get 2kbps downstream (yup, that's right) through my 2.5 or 3G connection. Yay. I think I was getting better than that on dialup in about 1995.

    1. Re:Tell it to the people who cannot get broadband by tagishsimon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've had a number of BT engineers visit the house to try to get DSL working. And they've done some work on the line to improve the signal strength. They conclude that it ain't going to happen; anecdotally, because the line is mainly buried, old, and waterlogged.

      As they have reached this conclusion, they've marked my phone line on their database as "cannot get broadband" ... and that's it. They'll make no further attempt / take no further interest / decline any further order from me for broadband.

      I cannot give a precise distance to the exchange; the straight line distance looks about 4km, by the roads probably 6 or 7. I know the house a half mile before mine in the direction of the exchange can get a slow broadband. And communities all around mine can get broadband, albeit in a number of cases, from different exchanges.

      I'm in discussions with my MP, who's talking, as they do, to the useless secretary of state for business (his advice dated 12 months ago: wait for the market to provide, or maybe knit your own in your spare time - I kid you not), and also to BT regional management and the local development agency.

    2. Re:Tell it to the people who cannot get broadband by busman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Here in Ireland the man has just announced to pick 3's 3G(HSDPA)to meet their requirements for universal broadband by 2009!

      http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1125/broadband.html

      WTF! How can you say 3G is broadband! Just check out the problems people in Ireland have been having with 3's service http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055115306

      I'm lucky to have fixed wireless here in North Cork, but have friends who have no broadband access at all.

      --
      __
      Sigs are like arse-holes, everybody has one ;-)
  3. I've tried wrangling with BT over this by OneSmartFellow · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'm supposed to have a 8MB connection. I've checked the distance to my DSLAM, and I'm well within the distance that 8M should be possible.

    I've got a good modem/router - Alcatel Speedtouch - which lets me run diagnostics on the line. The diagnostics report that my signal to noise ratio is just within the limits to establish an aDSL session (from memory it's 9dB), and certainly nowhere close to being able to run at max speed (which would need a S/N of something like 50+dB).

    I've contacted BT about the poor state of my line, and they basically ignore me. Actually, it's worse than that, they lied to me claiming that they have tried to contact me by phone, but I provided only my cell phone number and my e-mail, and there is no record of any missed calls from BT, just an e-mail claiming they tried to call. (not to mention that I always have it switched on and within easy ear-shot during working hours).

    I guess they just suck !

    1. Re:I've tried wrangling with BT over this by Firkragg14 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Your on ADSL. The way ADSL works is that you get quoted a theoretical maximum speed and then you in fact get something completely different which is nothing like what you were quoted. The sad thing is that its considered acceptable by DSL companies to supply a connection that is in reality 25%-50% slower than the quoted speed.

    2. Re:I've tried wrangling with BT over this by cgenman · · Score: 2, Informative

      To be fair, DSL companies really have no idea how dirty your line will be until it is fully hooked up. Is it a problem in your house? Last mile copper? Switch box? Nobody really has a way of knowing, and it is bloody expensive to find out.

      They're not stiffing people through neglect or malice, but rather because of technological limitations.

    3. Re:I've tried wrangling with BT over this by daBass · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Complain about excessive line noise when you call people It cuts in and out. Oh, and it kicks off your ADSL too regularly. They'll run a remote test and tell you it is not so. You put your foot down and they send down an engineer "but we will charge you if there really is no problem". You accept this.

      Cool thing is, the engineers are usually reasonable people and they like fixing your problems and do care about ADSL too - it is truly only the call centre idiots that are trained to screw you.

      Do you have above ground wires? They are the worst (insulation cracked by 50 years of sunlight, moisture corroding them, etc.) and easiest replaced.

      I have done this 3 times now - twice with BT in London and once with Telstra here in Oz. Every single time speed and reliability went up dramatically.

      Your mileage may vary, but worth a shot.

    4. Re:I've tried wrangling with BT over this by Xelios · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I had a similar situation with 1&1 in Germany. I paid for a 16 Mbit connection (which they assured me was available in my area) but the lines were so poor that I'd never see more than 6 Mbit. On top of that the modem would lose sync at least once per hour after 5pm which made VOIP a real pain in the ass. Talking to someone on the phone? Oops, not anymore.

      Incidentally the sync losses always started after the street lights turned on, I guess the lines weren't insulated properly. The customer service at 1&1 is worse than terrible, and after the 3rd time of being on the phone with them for half an hour (at 25 cents per minute no less) and getting nothing resolved I simply gave up.

      After moving to a new place I ordered a cable connection from Kabel Deutschland instead, 20 Mbit with VOIP for 30 EUR a month. I'm getting 19 Mbit with every speed test I can find and the connection is rock solid. At only 10 EUR/month more than the 1&1 DSL connection it's well worth it.

      So I'm happy with the connection I have now, but don't get me started on all the underhanded tricks they use to obscure what you'll really be paying every month. I'm honestly amazed at what they can get away with in that department.

      --
      Murphey's fighting Occam, and we're in the stands.
    5. Re:I've tried wrangling with BT over this by iangoldby · · Score: 4, Informative

      The 9 dB figure quoted is the signal to noise margin. With adaptive rate ADSL (maxDSL) the DSLAM and modem negotiate a target noise margin, and sync at whatever speed is necessary to achieve this.

      The target noise margin starts off at 6 dB. If this results in an unstable connection then the target gets increased, first to 9 dB, and then to 12 dB, and finally to 15 dB.

      So 9 dB is really not that bad. It means that the quality of your line varies a bit, but not too much. The more your line quality varies, the higher the target noise margin that is automatically set.

      The point of having a higher target noise margin is that when the line quality deteriorates after the modems have synced and the noise margin drops, it wont drop as far - that is - it starts from a higher value.

      As the noise margin drops, first of all error correction kicks in. That can correct a certain amount of data corruption. As the noise margin drops further the error correction becomes inadequate and some packets get dropped because they contain uncorrectable errors.

      Once the line starts dropping packets then the data transfer speed plummets because those packets have to be requested again. Soon you reach the point where even a simple text-only web page takes several minutes to load, or just times out.

      Eventually as the noise margin approaches zero, the modem loses sync. At this point it will probably resync automatically, but this time at a much lower rate in order to re-establish the original target noise margin. If this happens regularly then BT's systems will automatically increase your target noise margin to try to prevent this happening as often.

      The final insult is that when the modem resyncs at a slower speed, BT's systems reset your 'IP Profile' to match your new sync speed. The IP Profile is effectively a cap on the data rate (not the sync speed).

      Note that this adjustment to your IP Profile happens immediately when your modem resyncs slower, but not when your modem resyncs faster. In the latter case your line has to remain stable at the higher speed for five days before BT will put your IP Profile back up.

      With fixed-rate ADSL it is a little different. There is no target noise margin - the modem just connects at the fixed speed and the noise margin you get is just whatever it happens to be. Fixed rate doesn't do error connection so it generally needs a higher noise margin than adaptive rate to avoid retransmissions. But the good news is that there is no IP profile rate cap, so when a period of poor line performance ends your download speeds will recover immediately.

      Now, what was the question?...

    6. Re:I've tried wrangling with BT over this by sa1lnr · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "I guess they just suck !"

      I have a good one for you. In the early hours of October 30th thieves made off with BT multicore cable from their access points in the pavement on my street. Got through to their automated line testing using my mobile, entered the number to be tested (my home landline) waited the short while for the test to complete and it came back saying that there was no fault on my line. I found this all rather amusing as I was standing in the street by the open access point looking at the results of the thieves handy work.

      175 lines were down in all.

  4. Maybe by Roland+Piquepaille · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've contacted [any telco anywhere in the world] about the poor state of my line, and they basically ignore me.

    There, fixed that for you.

    1. Re:Maybe by Numen · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I live on a small Spanish island off the West coast of Africa. I have a 10Mb/s line, and I can hit the full throughput of this on a good torrent... I did so downloading Ubuntu... This was after contacting Telefonica shortly after the line was installed to express concern about the poor throughput and them saying yes the line wasn't set up properly but should work fine within 48 hours which it did.

      At a previous apartment I lost my line after somebody basically cut through it while doing DIY somewhere in the block. It was rewired I think 3 days later.

      Yes there are many bad storied about Telefonica that could be told, but my point is that I'm quite confident that I have better bandwidth here than I would have if I returned to the UK. One more reason not to go back to the UK I guess.

    2. Re:Maybe by eebra82 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I don't want to sound like a brat, but I actually wanted to test my 1 Gbit home connection to its full extent. I had two identical computers with 1 Gbit cards and wiring, RAID configurations that surpass the 1 Gbit barrier and whatnot.

      I was actually very satisfied with the 544 Mbit throughput that I reached, but I wanted to see if I could get more. I phoned the ISP, explained the problem and had it fixed two days later. Now I'm peaking at 978 Mbit. Still, it's interesting that ISP:s of such high speed connections care so much about the extra excessiveness.

      Anyway, that was about a year ago and since then I've moved to another country. Nowadays, I have a 30 Mbit over cable, effective bandwidth of some 25 Mbit, but I'm not complaining.

  5. Headline speed isn't that important by shin0r · · Score: 3, Informative

    Headline speed isn't everything.

    "Unlimited" offers that are actually very limited, FUPs, throttling, packet shaping, off-peak, on-peak, web caching, port blocking, Phorm; - no wonder with all this crap the average customer is confused about their connection.

    I will now shamelessly plug http://superawesomebroadband.com/ and get me coat.

    1. Re:Headline speed isn't that important by David+Gerard · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I pay about £5/mo over the going rate for Zen.co.uk, because they're still geek-run and Very Good Indeed. They also superlatively BS'ed British Telecom to get my DSL connected faster than usual at my new house, and that's the sort of service I'm willing to pay for!

      I have Sky as well - I looked at the "free" Sky broadband, and to get the equivalent of my Zen connection would be £5/mo less. It's entirely worth it for competent service.

      --
      http://rocknerd.co.uk
  6. Re:Fast enough... by MrNaz · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Better still, a separate report issued yesterday by Ofcom revealed that the majority of broadband users had no idea about the speed of their connection anyway.

    Maybe because at the moment there are very few applications of an Internet connection for which you'd notice the difference between 1mbit and 10mbit.

    Unless you are a habitual downloader (a group statistically overrepresented here on Slashdot), you won't notice any difference to your web and email by moving above 1mbit. Hell, with the intelligent buffering that most video sites have, it's likely that you wouldn't even notice the difference on those sites unless you're really paying attention.

    So cut it with the "we need faster broadband" BS. What we need before a 100mbit pipe is a legislative framework that ensures that consumers can actually use that 100mbit pipe without getting shagged six ways from Sunday by their ISP.

    I'm looking at you, Telstra.

    --
    I hate printers.
  7. and in my Aussie accent, all I can say is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    bloody pommie whingers

    (that's a term of endearment)

  8. Re:Bulldog Broadband are good by David+Gerard · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Bulldog is about the only broadband company in Britain who could have been improved by being bought by Tiscali. Now that they're not criminally overselling services they literally couldn't provision.

    --
    http://rocknerd.co.uk
  9. How ? by daveime · · Score: 4, Funny

    How in God's name is the UK Government supposed to keep a record of everything you do online, if you are using these unholy fast speed internet connections ?

  10. Re:Fast enough... by Linker3000 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    True - but then us corporate users who transfer sales & backup data between offices overnight *do* notice the problem.

    Our new HQ is quite a long way from the exchange so we struggle to get above 4Mbit/sec anyway - but that's a side issue.

    We have 30 satellite offices each running 1-8Mbit connections and we can get the data in overnight but if we wanted anything more 'real-time' we'd have to go fibre - and then we're talking something daft like a 10KGBP+ install to 'upgrade' to a whopping 10Mbit connection *PER SITE* - or get the connections cheaper in return for a long-term contract. Then, you'd need to factor in the monthly rental charges.

    Overall, ADSL does what we need - slowly - but the price differential to the next possible speed solution is out of all proportion to the benefits.

    --
    AT&ROFLMAO
  11. Re:Fast enough... by blueZ3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Better still, a separate report issued yesterday by Ofcom revealed that the majority of broadband users had no idea about the speed of their connection anyway.

    My bet is that these are closely related. If consumers knew about their comparatively low speed connection (i.e., knew enough to know they should care and how to figure it out) then they'd be pushing for faster speeds. They'd leave providers who are providing "slow broadband" and move to better ones, and the screwups would have to get right or get out of the broadband business.

    But your average Peter Pint doesn't know enough to know better. (Hey, I'm not putting down you folks over the pond--the average Joe Sixpack thinks broadband is a woman's belt)

    Just my two cents

    --
    Interested in a Flash-based MAME front end? Visit mame.danzbb.com
  12. Re:Fast enough... by Phil+John · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You could always look at bonding multiple ADSL connections together.

    --
    I am NaN
  13. Get Be broadband by Nursie · · Score: 2, Informative

    24Mbps, static IP address, 19 quid a month.

    Sure, due to line quality I only get about 11-14Mbps, but that's ok.

    They don't seem to throttle at all, torrenting stuff is nice and fast, as are my frequent OS downloads/net installs. No caps either AFAICT.

    1. Re:Get Be broadband by master811 · · Score: 2, Informative

      There is a downside to using Be*, and it's that the Speedtouch routers they give you are pretty crap, and have a habit of overheating and requiring reseting, this may be causing some of your problems.

      I've not had any experience with the very latest v7, but i know for sure the v5 and v6 routers have numerous problems with buggy firmware and overheating.

  14. Re:Fast enough... by ubercam · · Score: 2, Informative

    Well they might move to another provider, but still be in the same sinking boat.

    Take my girlfriend's house as an example. They used to have BT DSL which topped out at a whopping 1.5mbps (on good days). They have since moved over to Tiscali for various reasons and see about the same speeds. Tiscali sells their particular package up to 8mbps, but they will likely never see speeds like that.

    Apparently the problem is with the exchange, but may also be the last mile of copper, who knows? It's highly unlikely it will ever be fixed, so they just have to deal with it. It all works fine for them because they aren't power users (web, email, occasional iPlayer), but it would still be nice to get what you paid for. They could be paying for 24mbit but wouldn't likely see more than 2mbit. I'm sure her area isn't unique in the UK.

  15. Re:Fast enough... by Bert64 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Or you can find a smaller provider who will sell a "slower" service for less money and possibly provide more ancillary services or better support etc.
    Why pay for an up to 8mb service when your line can only handle 1.5Mb? go for a cheaper 2Mb service.

    Also, Tiscali and BT consumer are two of the worst ISPs you could have picked, they are both mass market isps catering to the lowest common denominator. These ISPs will try to pack as many customers onto the smallest connection they can, safe in the knowledge that for every customer they lose there's 10 more who aren't clued up enough to notice. Tiscali for instance, may have 50 "up to 8mb" users connected to a single exchange, which has a 2mb backhaul connection...

    Have a look at beunlimited (now o2) or some of the smaller but more highly rated isps on adslguide.org.uk, and avoid the big mass market ones like the plague, they are the mcdonalds of the isp world.

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