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At Atlantic Records, Digital Sales Surpass CDs

The NYTimes reports that Atlantic is the first major label to report getting a majority of its revenue from digital sales, not CDs. Analysts say that Atlantic is out in front — the industry as a whole isn't expected to hit the 50% mark until 2011. By 2013, music industry revenues will be 37% down from their 1999 levels (when Napster arrived on the scene), according to Forrester. "'It's not at all clear that digital economics can make up for the drop in physical,' said John Rose, a former executive at EMI ... Instead, the music industry is now hoping to find growth from a variety of other revenue streams it has not always had access to, like concert ticket sales and merchandise from artist tours. ... In virtually all... corners of the media world, executives are fighting to hold onto as much of their old business as possible while transitioning to digital — a difficult process that NBC Universal's chief executive ... has described as 'trading analog dollars for digital pennies.'"

35 of 273 comments (clear)

  1. Tough shit. by mrbcs · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Cry me a farking river! If these industry assholes would have got on the bus in 97, they may have a viable option now.
    They're so narrow-minded that they can look through a keyhole with both eyes at the same time.
    The industry should have been the first out the gate with mp3's, giving the customers what they wanted and not what the record industry wanted to sell them.
    It's almost poetic justice, the record companies have screwed the artists for years and now they seem to be getting their comeuppance.
    I care for these assholes about the same that I care for that dinosaur car industry. Change or die!

    --
    I'm not anti-social, I'm anti-idiot.
    1. Re:Tough shit. by Simonetta · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "'It's not at all clear that digital economics can make up for the drop in physical,'

      Jeez, you don't have to physically make anything anymore and you don't actually have to ship anything anymore. All you have to do is put up a web site and let people send you money...lots of money.

      But you're not sure if this incredible change in your cost-of-goods-sold structure is going to make up for your astonishing incompetence as an marketing executive?

      I don't know, guy, maybe you ought to be exploring career opportunities in fast-food-service industry. And let some unemployed electronics tech have a shot at your present so-called job.

      I couldn't do any worse than you are.

    2. Re:Tough shit. by penginkun · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How many CD's did you buy in the late 90's that was complete crap besides the one song they played on the radio 3-times an hour?

      So there were NO good acts or albums from the late 90s? Seriously? None?

      I'm SO sick of this argument. The late 90s were a bonanza of awesome music. If you were wasting your time with top 40 pap that's your problem, and not really the fault of the record companies. The same is true today: there is an unending stream of incredible music being released by talented musicians and if you can't find it you've got nobody to blame but the person you see in the mirror every morning.

    3. Re:Tough shit. by mabhatter654 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      because in the scale of record companies CDs are nearly free anyway. They're paid for as soon as they ship by record stores... then the stores have to worry about stock. The number of releases has cut way more than 37% as they only cater to the very large stores like Walmart and Best Buy... independent record stores that sold new bands went away long before napster came on the scene.

    4. Re:Tough shit. by boarder8925 · · Score: 3, Funny

      . . . and if you can't find it you've got nobody to blame but the person you see in the mirror every morning.

      The wife?

    5. Re:Tough shit. by AmberBlackCat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think it would help the CD sales if they'd stop shipping CD's that won't play in a computer.

    6. Re:Tough shit. by philipgar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Your last statement is only partially true. The number of releases record labels make in a year has reduced, and they have started catering more to the very large stores. However, this was the case quite a bit before Napster came onto the scene, and the mp3 revolutionized the music industry. The large stores had started swallowing up the small. It is false to say that the small independent record stores are gone. There are still quite a few of them that flourish. The people who love music and are willing to pay for it often choose to go to the small independent stores, and always will. The store is far more about the personal interaction, and the recommendations that can be made there. What has hurt the small stores the most isn't the Walmart's and Best Buys who have small selections, low prices, and high volume, but the Amazon's of the world who have practically unlimited selection, and the benefits of scale that come with being so large that they can get lower prices. Many music fans have started shopping online for CDs they used to buy at the small independent stores.

      The large record companies shot for the gold in the late 90s by focusing on the big hit of the day kind of thing. Under such a market, they create demand for music, and sell CDs (albeit to a limited number of artists). However, when you concentrate on the masses and the hit of the minute, you lose out on loyalty. The loyal fan base that goes to the small independent CD stores didn't want to switch to buying CDs at Walmart, and they didn't care about the flavor of the month. They bought lots of CDs by bands that aren't particularly profitable to the labels (but tended to bring in a steady stream of income). The group that they won over with low prices at Walmart, and mass consumed discs has little loyalty, and why should they. They could care less where they get their music from, and napster is as good a place as any, but the price was right. Besides, who cares if the back street boys didn't make a few extra bucks, the bands they were pirating from had more money than they needed anyhow.

      At the same time this happened, many more of the smaller bands that struggled before said screw it to the major labels, and found that if they play to their niche they can end up okay. They'll never strike it big, but they can keep doing what they're doing. It used to be that no established artist would be on an independent label unless they decided to create their own. Today we have many many examples of well known artists with loyal fan bases going onto smaller labels that better support their needs. These places are still going strong, and still will. What the labels are crying foul on is the fact that they can no longer create millions of potential fans who will go out and pay $10-$15 (assuming walmart prices) for the mass produced crap that they're selling. That said, I imagine their revenue stream for the millions of ringtones they sell to people is earning them a nice chunk of money . . . Until people find an easy way to do that themselves that is.

      Phil

    7. Re:Tough shit. by David+Gerard · · Score: 4, Interesting

      A physical CD plus case and booklet is under a dollar to press in quantity, so the physical disc isn't actually a huge part of the price tag anyway.

      I so wish they'd get more into the Long Tail. Imagine record companies reissing their back catalogues as FLAC or Apple Lossless. They could sell them for a couple of bucks under the CD price and market it to record nerds who want obscurities it's infeasible to distribute physically.

      It's like they still don't understand they're not competing with paid downloads, they're competing with free.

      --
      http://rocknerd.co.uk
  2. CDs are digital! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ummm... how are we thinking that CDs aren't digital?

  3. What? Are you guys serious? by Yvan256 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Instead, the music industry is now hoping to find growth from a variety of other revenue streams it has not always had access to...

    How about just releasing everything world-wide, at the same time, instead of a handful of countries, or different dates for only a selected few countries? I don't care about your contracts and agreements, you're the ones who did that in the first place. It's your mess, clean it up. Your market is the whole planet, take advantage of this "new" fact.

    And that goes not only for music but for movies and TV shows too.

    1. Re:What? Are you guys serious? by Darkness404 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not to mention video games, I mean seriously, there is a bit of a delay expected in translating from Japanese to English but from American English to British English? And most have to wait months for the game to come to Europe or vice versa.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    2. Re:What? Are you guys serious? by purpledinoz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My thoughts exactly. Why not sell ALL music online, and allow everyone to listen to the entire catalog of music (for a fee of course)? There's so much material out there that it's impossible to pirate it all. I would say that only 10% of music is easily available from piracy. So if they provide a service which gives people access to ALL music, people will pay.

      Why do I have to pay $40 for a CD that's gone out of print 10 years ago? I'm not going to buy it at $40, but maybe for $10. But it turns out it's not easy enough money. The music industry is now subjected to full market forces and they're now crying about it.

  4. True in the DJ world, too. by Tokerat · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I haven't seen a single new piece of vinyl (or CD, for that matter) listed on dancerecords.com since July.

    This happened very suddenly, and it's a bit startling for those of us who have invested in actual vinyl turntables...

    --
    CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
    1. Re:True in the DJ world, too. by v1 · · Score: 5, Funny

      you think that's bad? just try getting ahold of blank punchcards sometime!

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    2. Re:True in the DJ world, too. by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 4, Funny

      That's what I love about Slashdot. It always ends up with somebody trumping someone else down to steampunk levels of technology.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
  5. The Labels Want More Money... by gavanm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There is an interesting paragraph in the article....

    The real question, Mr. Rose said, is how does the record industry change its rights structure so it captures a fairer percent of the value it creates in funding, marketing and managing the launch of artists?

    To paraphrase - we think the artists owe us more money

    1. Re:The Labels Want More Money... by Silentknyght · · Score: 4, Funny

      There is an interesting paragraph in the article....

      The real question, Mr. Rose said, is how does the record industry change its rights structure so it captures a fairer percent of the value it creates in funding, marketing and managing the launch of artists?

      To paraphrase - we think the artists owe us more money

      To be optimistic, perhaps they simply realized that they take too much, and now want to give more to the artists?? Okay, so this is slashdot... set mod to funny.

    2. Re:The Labels Want More Money... by deraj123 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Or just replace "fairer" with "fairer for us" - fairer doesn't really mean much in business anyways. It's not that they think the artists owe them more money. It's that they want to find a way to get more money out of the whole system. Honestly, if they weren't doing that, they probably wouldn't be doing their jobs. Sure, it's easy to look at the industry and say it's outdated, say they don't provide value anymore, and should die. But is it reasonable to expect them to just roll over and die? I know if it were me, I wouldn't. If I needed to make a certain amount of money to consider the venture "successful", and the total pie got smaller, then my option is to try and get a larger piece of the pie. The counter to them actually getting that larger piece isn't to have them ask for less...it's for the other people providing value to the business to say no.

      Sure, they're probably going about it the wrong way. I have to say, I think they're eventually going to fail. But that doesn't mean we should expect them to just give up. And we certainly shouldn't be surprised, or even appalled, when we hear about them attempting to stay alive.

    3. Re:The Labels Want More Money... by davester666 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >>Actually, they do think they are paying the artists too much. They tried to reduce the mandatory amount of money per song they had
      >>to pay for royalties this summer as part of 'negotiations',

      >If by "too much" you mean "more than they think they can get away with" then I agree with you.

      Yes. They have all kinds of fun legal and accounting methods to reduce or eliminate (or claim the band owes them money), suing their customers (as well as other random people, dead or alive) for copyright infringement while keeping all proceeds from said lawsuits for themselves, while standing up in the middle of the room and shouting "Don't steal music or the performers and songwriters can't get paid".

      Hell, they still trying to recover their own bribe money, after their repeated violations of bribing radio stations to play specific songs, by trying to get it legislated that terrestrial radio stations have to pay them for every song they play. And how much of this "new revenue stream" do you think will go to the artists?

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    4. Re:The Labels Want More Money... by UnderCoverPenguin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Possibly, pre-successful musicians need an honest union

      A friend of mine once made the mistake of joining a musicians' union. Never did him any good, and now, he can't perform at all without first paying dues to said union. Even before the economy collapsed, he could not get enough money to be worth performing.

      --
      Don't try to out wierd me, three-eyes. I get stranger things than you, free with my breakfast cereal. --Zaphod Beeblebr
  6. $15 for a CD with 1 good song? Doesn't fly. by Silentknyght · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "It's not at all clear that digital economics can make up for the drop in physical."

    Well, no shit. Their old business model of selling a $15 CD with 1 good song---aka ripping people off--doesn't fly anymore. If you just want that one song, you just buy that one song.

    Digital sales aren't going to match physical sales because--plain and simple--there's a lot of complete crap out there that people don't have to buy, anymore.

  7. amazon by bcrowell · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's strange that nobody ever talks about Amazon. You can buy MP3's on Amazon for 89-99 cents per track, complete albums typically for about $8. I ripped all my CDs to mp3 this year, tossed the CDs in a dumpster, and am now buying music only on Amazon. I love not having piles of CDs lying around and making my house messy. Amazon sells music with no DRM. It works on any OS that can run a web browser.

    iTunes, on the other hand ... yeesh. It's a completely proprietary system, and it doesn't run on my OS. It's also got DRM (although the DRM is fairly easy to circumvent).

    1. Re:amazon by Hashi+Lebwohl · · Score: 3, Insightful

      For the approx 300 million people in the USA, perhaps. I wish I could use Amazon, I really do, but living in Aus prevents me. WHY can they not sell to people outside of the USA? I'm guessing it is again the record labels that impose this crap. Well, fuck you very much, RIAA, I'll just make my own, cheaper, arrangements.

      --
      I'm in to sadism, bestiality and necrophilia. Am I flogging a dead horse?
  8. Re:Can someone help me figure out the ethics of th by Renegade+Iconoclast · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It isn't right to steal, it's true. However, our rights to the public commons have been stolen by Disney and Congress. Irving Berlin's estate still gets royalties for Blue Skies, for crissakes. Therefore, perhaps a bit of civil disobedience is in order. It depends on your calculations.

  9. How Music Used to Be by mkiwi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I simply don't like the music produced right now, and I don't think I'm alone. In the 60's through the 90's, the defining part of each piece of music was typically the melody. We listened to things that had beautiful sounds and chords. We had thought provoking lyrics that read like poetry, or lyrics that one could simply associate with.

    Now music is so hip-hop/rap influenced that the only thing the composers seem to think about is the beat and the star-power behind each act. This commercialization + beat + weak melody is just not working a vast minority, if not a majority of music listeners. A song today probably only has a single catchy part that lasts a few seconds, and the rest is trash. We are expected to buy this music so we can hear the 5 seconds we like of a 3:30 min song. What about the song as a complete work of art?

    This problem has always existed, but before it typically showed up as filler in an album. Now the album has been scaled down to fit inside of one song, and it's just not a compelling experience.

    Really young people are going to like whatever is produced because they don't know anything better- that is certainly a big market. However, the music industry has almost completely lost the 18+ crowd by trying to cater to people who have relatively unestablished tastes. They got away from the fundamentals and they're getting severely burned. If they produced good work and were losing money to piracy, I would feel sympathy for the artists and even a little for the labels who do the sound engineering. Since their work is crap, though, I'm not spending a cent on any music they produce.

  10. Re:Can someone help me figure out the ethics of th by Thing+1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From what I can see, piracy actually helps society.

    Please, PLEASE stop calling copyright infringement "piracy". Piracy happens on the high seas, generally, lately, near Somalia. And it can be deadly, as the pirates who tried to attack the Indian Navy vessel learned last week.

    Copyright infringement is not even stealing; it's copying. Stealing (legal definition) involves depriving the owner of their property, but copying does not do that; rather, it enriches both parties.

    In addition, corporations have stolen from the public domain that was granted access to all works after a short period of time, as defined by the US Constitution. So, these corporations have reneged on their social contract, and therefore do not deserve to have their copyrights respected (note that this last part has not been confirmed by the courts, but it should, soon; Google "Lessig Eldred").

    And I agree: rampant copying does help society, because it helps us ensure that we bring forward our culture, rather than letting it rot, forgotten, in unmarketable silos.

    --
    I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
  11. Atlantic Records are bad guys by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 5, Informative

    Atlantic Records is one of the most common plaintiffs in the RIAA cases. (Here are some in which it is the first named plaintiff: Atlantic v. Andersen(Portland, OR) Atlantic v. Anderson (Houston, TX) Atlantic v. Boggs (Corpus Christi, Texas) Atlantic v. Boyer (Tampa, FL) Atlantic v. Brennan (New Haven, CT) Atlantic v. Dangler (Rochester, NY) Atlantic v. DeMassi (Houston, TX) Atlantic v. Does 1-14 (Portland, ME) Atlantic v. Does 1-25(New York, NY) Atlantic v. Howell (Phoenix, AZ)(pro se) Atlantic v. Huggins(Brooklyn, NY) Atlantic v. Lenentine (Portland, ME) Atlantic v. Myers (Jackson, MS) Atlantic v. Njuguna (Charleston, SC) Atlantic v. Raleigh (Missouri) Atlantic v. Serrano (San Diego, CA) Atlantic v. Shutovsky (New York, NY) Atlantic v. Zuleta (Atlanta, GA)...) As far as I'm concerned they should rot in hell.

    --
    Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  12. Re:RIP Sound Quality by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 3, Funny

    That message was sent 25 years ago. It was delivered on a cassette tape.

  13. Re: Reusable by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 4, Funny

    2000 called. They want their Florida ballots back.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  14. The real question by cgenman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    âoeThe real question,â Mr. Rose said, âoeis how does the record industry change its rights structure so it captures a fairer percent of the value it creates in funding, marketing and managing the launch of artists?â

    Arguably, when the record industry lost their stranglehold on the various ways that the public could be introduced to new acts, their marketing and launch management value creation was significantly reduced. Furthermore, competing in the much larger pool of availble unlimited digital stock, one would naturally expect prices to compete downward.

    Also, the number of ways in which the record industry payout structure has been unfairly skewed towards the record labels is well documented. One would expect this to gradually tip downwards back to a more reasonable medium.

    In the grand scheme of things, a decent recording can be made at a 10,000 dollar studio, pressed at one of any number of professional CD producers, and distributed by any number of available distributers. Add in a 1,000 dollar HD video camera for youtube promotion, and you have a comparable music system powered by the creator's time. That's a highly efficient alternative that didn't exist ten years ago.

    Assuming our cultural music needs are being met, a 25% drop in overall spending on music could easily be because we have become 25% more efficient.

  15. 9 years... by myxiplx · · Score: 3

    God, 9 years on and the record companies *still* don't have anything that's even close to Napster for ease of use and sheer range of music. My CD purchases probably have dropped off, but that's because for all that time I've been waiting for them to finally release a music download service that actually compares to the stuff I've already used.

    What they perhaps don't realise is that myself and many others would gladly pay for the music we listen to, but I'm not going to be tied down to listening to it x number of times, or on x devices, or with it limited to x copies. I also don't want limits on what I can and can't listen to. If I'm going to sign up for a paid service, I want to be confident that I can download pretty much whatever I want.

    Napster had all of that, and pretty much a monopoly on the download market. Makes you wonder what might have happened if the record companies had worked out a way of licensing tracks shared through it, instead of driving sharing underground.

  16. Revenue is meaningless. by TapeCutter · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Speaking of revenue, the statement "By 2013, music industry revenues
    will be 37% down from their 1999 levels" means jack shit because it says nothing about profit. Of course revenue will drop significantly if you don't have to make, package, distribute and find retail shelf space for millions of individual physical items around the globe.

    Personal anecdote of physical vs electronic: During the 90's I was the technical lead on a large project with 8000 remote mobile users, and when I say remote I mean Australia wide coverage - GSM, DATATAC, sattelite phones, radio link exchanges, and the like. To upgrade the software for all 8000 users by CD was costing ~$2M/yr (mainly in down time for the user to get the CD and install the upgrade). It took 4 programmers including myself ten minutes of thought and 6 months of work to build an automated upgrade system that did not require any action by (or delay to) the user.

    The board of directors were so impressed with the $$$ signs that they wrote a long and flattering letter of appreciation to each of us, but they were a telco at the "bleeding edge", I imagine a record label would have taken us to the basement car park and shot us.

    --
    And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    1. Re:Revenue is meaningless. by TapeCutter · · Score: 5, Funny

      On the bright side, I have yet another anecdote about the preview button.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  17. As it should be by macraig · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is as it should be. Publishers and producers - middlemen all - never had any socially ethical right to all those "analog dollars" in the first place. The prospect that they might have to make do with "digital pennies" like the rest of us is a slight reversal of all that sickening concentration of wealth.

  18. What profits have big record companies //earned//? by ErkDemon · · Score: 4, Informative
    Do big record companies even deserve to benefit from the growth of the new-technology sectors? Where was their investment in those sectors?

    The technology for "cloud" media distribution was developed and bug-fixed by the likes of Napster, not them. the whole MP3 infrastructure seems to have been put together by independent companies, research institutions and computer companies, with a notable absence of any record companies being obviously involved. Online music stores seem to be mostly developed by external companies. I'm not aware of any record companies behind the growth of the ringtone market. If you want to access databases of what's on your CDs, you don't go to the record company, you go to a database run by an independent company where the information is entered and corrected and maintained by volunteer end-users. Hell, Microsoft probably run a more reliable public back-catalogue for BMG than BMG do.

    When's the last time that any of us visited a record company website to find out a major artists back-catalogue? These guys are no good at websites. They'll pay someone big money to do a glitzy "promo" site that doesn't contain any useful reference information, and pull the plug on it a couple of years later.

    The big record companies say that they need to make big profits in order to find and invest in the next generation of talent, but the artists being found and nurtured by "the industry" seem to be supported by other industry "players". The big development recently has been TV talent shows, where there's a lot of money being made from tv broadcasting and pay-per-vote ... but the big record companies missed out on that money because it wasn't them that did it.

    What they are trying to do now, is to have contracts that give them a slice of things like tour money. They're trying to grab someone else's historic market share to supplement their income, by awarding themselves those rights in the recording contract. Again, this is a market where the big record companies haven't invested in the past - the gigging circuit has been kept alive by bands and promoters who recognised that gigging was essential to keep part of the customer-base interested in music. The big record companies essentially left big live venues to die, leaving it to others, like the mobile phone companies, to sponsor them.

    So if they're asking for a "fair slice" of the profits from music, they should be careful what they ask for. A lot of people think that their current profits represent way more than a fair slice.