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Alien Comet May Have Infiltrated the Solar System

Posted by kdawson on from the starseed-lure dept.

New Scientist has a piece about Comet Machholz 1, whose uncommon molecular composition suggests, but does not prove, that it may be an interloper from another star system. "Comet Machholz 1 isn't like other comets. David Schleicher of the Lowell Observatory in Flagstaff, Arizona, measured the chemical makeup of 150 comets, and found that they all had similar levels of the chemical cyanogen (CN) except for Machholz 1, which has less than 1.5% of the normal level. Along with some other comets, it is also low on the molecules carbon-2 and carbon-3."

57 of 208 comments (clear)

  1. Oh, no, Alien Comet! by to6o · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm sure the other comets are freaking out

    --
    "People's problem is not that they are mortal, but that they are suddenly mortal" Terry Pratchett
    1. Re:Oh, no, Alien Comet! by dunkelfalke · · Score: 3, Funny

      it could be worse - imagine all of the trucks suddenly freaking out.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    2. Re:Oh, no, Alien Comet! by Z00L00K · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's hardly surprising that we actually can get objects that originates from outside our solar system. There isn't much of a fence around the solar system.

      What could be really interesting is to pick samples from this comet to check for more complex molecules. It's not really that we have seen our "own" comets all the way through yet, so we don't know much about possible variations.

      We don't even know much about how the comets were created, and that means that there is a lot of uncertainty involved. A possible scenario is that the comets originates from a larger object that has cracked up, which may explain why most of them are similar in composition and that this new comet is from another source. Just compare the variations in composition of the planets we have in the solar system.

      There is still so much to learn about the universe.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    3. Re:Oh, no, Alien Comet! by Geirzinho · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There are no fences, but to a significant gravitational barrier to overcome when leaving the original star system. Also, to fall into orbit around or sun would require a third body to take away the excess energy. I guess this could be one of our planets, but on overall I'm suspecting more "boring" origins, such as a cold spot in our own solar system.

    4. Re:Oh, no, Alien Comet! by Whiternoise · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No fence, but a few light years (4.2 to Proxima Centauri) between the nearest solar system means that either this is a very very slow moving comet and we've just not seen it before or it's been travelling for a few thousand/million years to get here..

      As for chemical composition, it's relatively easy to guess what comets are made of through spectral analysis - and most of the universe probably runs on the same sorts of atomic combinations. However, actually picking samples would certainly yield better results.

    5. Re:Oh, no, Alien Comet! by Whiteox · · Score: 2, Informative

      Unless cometary theory has changed over the last 30 years (and what's the chance of that?), I seriously doubt that any body of an 'alien' source has entered our Solar System as we're surrounded by the Oort cloud, hypothesized to be the source of all comets.
      For a foreign body to enter the system, it would have to pass through the Oort cloud and that would be highly unlikely.
      It's most probably an Oort cloud comet of a new type.
      Either that or it's one of those alien space vehicles that some people believe in.
       

      --
      Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
    6. Re:Oh, no, Alien Comet! by Alomex · · Score: 5, Informative

      the Oort cloud, hypothesized to be the source of all comets.

      Actually the very existence of the Oort cloud is hypothetical. While it provides a reasonable explanation for the existence of comets in our system there was no further independent confirmation until 2000, when more powerful telescopes identified one object that could belong to the cloud. Given that the number of comets could be into the trillions, having found a handful does not constitute definitive evidence, so it remains a mere hypothesis until more data is gathered.

      For a foreign body to enter the system, it would have to pass through the Oort cloud and that would be highly unlikely. It's most probably an Oort cloud comet of a new type.

      Comets in the Oort cloud are tens of millions of kilometers apart. An exo-solar comet would have no problem "sneaking" in.

    7. Re:Oh, no, Alien Comet! by AmberBlackCat · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Wouldn't it be wild if an alien race was trying to send us a message, and instead of a message in a bottle, it was a message in a comet?

    8. Re:Oh, no, Alien Comet! by Directrix1 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Wouldn't it be even more wild if the message was: "You die now!!"

      --
      Occam's razor is the blind faith in the natural selection of least resistance and in universal oversimplification. -- EF
    9. Re:Oh, no, Alien Comet! by Gilmoure · · Score: 2, Funny

      ...I'm suspecting more "boring" origins, such as a cold spot in our own solar system.

      My first ex-girlfriend made this?

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    10. Re:Oh, no, Alien Comet! by Z00L00K · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Just as well as there are comets that are bent on a course inward to a gravity well there can as well be comets that are thrown out of the gravity well.

      If you just look at how Jupiter was used as a slingshot tool for the Voyager probes that can as well happen with a comet. The universe is filled with unpredictable events and even if an event is statistical unlikely the immense size of the universe makes it happen anyway.

      The origin of the comets is still very uncertain, we can't be sure that they are the remains of the creation of the solar system - they may actually be some of the base material that it was created from. And as for traveling (Whiternoise's comment) the comets have had a lot of time to travel. A few billion years is no big deal in the depths of space.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    11. Re:Oh, no, Alien Comet! by Whiteox · · Score: 3, Interesting

      How dense do you think this theorized cloud of comets is?

      It's not a matter of density as much as it is of gravity and orbital dynamics.
      There are 2 clouds, the Inner and Outer.
      The inner cloud is not as susceptible to extra-solar gravitational forces as the outer. The outer bodies can be pulled away from the cloud which is about 1 light year from Sol so the gravitational effects of the sun are very weak.
      The Outer cloud 'protects' the inner cloud from intrusion. Any body drawn into the cloud by the cloud's combined gravitational forces would just join the cloud and go no further unless the body was ejected towards the sun at high speed., which as I said before is highly unlikely as any captured body would just join the cloud.
      The Inner cloud is closer and is the theoretical source of our system's comets. It is unlikely but possible that an outer cloud body would enter the inner cloud's realm.
      A body that is dislodged from the inner cloud due to random collisions by its neighbors, enters the solar system and becomes a comet.

      So for an extra-solar system body to enter into the system, it has to pass through 2 gravity wells (the Outer and Inner clouds) and be directed (velocity approaching) the sun.
      The other aspect is that these cloud bodies are the remnants of the formation of our Solar System which would include a variety of different compositions. Eventually all these left-overs will be drawn together and inwards to the sun.

      This theory was explained to me by an astronomer from Kansas U. in 1976(?) so that's why I mentioned the 30 year bit in my last post.

      --
      Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
    12. Re:Oh, no, Alien Comet! by Whiteox · · Score: 2, Funny

      Oh shut up already. He got +5 for literary style, not correctness.

      Mod AC up for wisdom, correctness, clean living and being of fine character.

      --
      Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
  2. Well.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    I, for one, welcome our new interstellar-traveling, cyanogen-lacking space overlords.

    1. Re:Well.. by wisty · · Score: 3, Funny

      All hail Xenu!

  3. Entry is Free. by retech · · Score: 5, Funny

    It entered our system the moment it heard Obama had Nasa's budget on the chopping block. Coincidence? I think not.

    1. Re:Entry is Free. by berend+botje · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Besides that, how would it have come here anyway? What is the escape velocity for getting out of a star system? And, what is the chance of 'hitting' another system in stead of wandering off into the immensely large void?

      Me thinks this news smells a bit like trying to get some funding...

    2. Re:Entry is Free. by master5o1 · · Score: 2

      Although the Europeans agencies, and probably others around the world would probably analyse this comet also and find if it is true or false. Probably going to say it's true no matter what so that NASA's rep. isn't diminished any further.

      --
      signature is pants
    3. Re:Entry is Free. by Nazlfrag · · Score: 3, Insightful

      well, given that comets inhabit the outer reaches of our solar system already, it wouldn't take too much effort. Add in the vastness of space and the fact that gravitational attraction exists I'd conjecture that any body heading in our general direction would be captured by our gravitational pull. It wouldn't have to aim straight at us, just in the general vicinity.

    4. Re:Entry is Free. by Hognoxious · · Score: 5, Funny

      What is the escape velocity for getting out of a star system?

      African or European?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    5. Re:Entry is Free. by Cyberax · · Score: 4, Informative

      The Sun alone can't capture a 'stray' comet - it'll just give it a gravity assist. You need at least three-bodies interaction for the orbital capture.

    6. Re:Entry is Free. by Ihmhi · · Score: 5, Funny

      I could go for some three-bodies interaction.

      --
      Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
    7. Re:Entry is Free. by rbanffy · · Score: 4, Funny

      Is the comet carrying coconuts?

      --
      http://www.dieblinkenlights.com
    8. Re:Entry is Free. by Ioldanach · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The Sun alone can't capture a 'stray' comet - it'll just give it a gravity assist. You need at least three-bodies interaction for the orbital capture.

      Well, the comet was one body, the Sun is another, and we have eight planets that are serviceable candidates for the third body. (Though some are better candidates than others.)

      Or, the approach vector was such that the solar system's net gravitational pull attracted it into the Oort cloud where impacts with other bodies slowed it down, taking enough of its energy to prevent escape from our solar system.

    9. Re:Entry is Free. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah, the odds are astronomical.

      Oh, wait...

    10. Re:Entry is Free. by ChrisA90278 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      escape is really not a problem. Much of the "stuff" in our solar system was ejected into space as it foormed. Planets that were to close were either ejected or landed in the Sun. Today all that is left are the bits that were in stable orbits the rest is long gone. The fact that this could have been ejected from it's home is not a big deal but (1) the chance that it got here and (2) that it went into orbit around the sun are a (maybe) one in a billion chance. But then with a few billion commets a one in a billion chance might happen a few times

    11. Re:Entry is Free. by careysub · · Score: 4, Informative

      Besides that, how would it have come here anyway? What is the escape velocity for getting out of a star system?

      There is nothing mysterious or difficult to believe here.

      We see about four comets per century that have hyperbolic trajectories - that is to say, they are never coming back.

      These hyperbolic comets are either interstellar interlopers already and have not been captured by the solar system (which would typically occur by losing part of its kinetic energy to one of the gas giants through gravitational interaction), or they are solar system comets being ejected into interstellar space (through gaining energy by the same mechanism) to become future interlopers in other star systems. Either way, we see the effect of comet ejection regularly, every few decades.

      Since the Oort Cloud is much denser with comets compared to the density of wandering comets in interstellar space, most hyperbolic comets are going to be the latter type.

      Machholz 1, if it is alien, was captured by the solar system some time in the past. Although this type of capture may be rare, since it would be going on since the formation of the solar system a substantial population of alien comets should have built up by this time, and captured aliens may be a more common sight than one-shot hyperbolic visitors.

      --
      Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
  4. Alien bastards by LockeOnLogic · · Score: 4, Funny

    I, for one, am sick to death of these alien comets just waltzing into our solar system taking jobs away from good hard working comets of our own solar system!

    1. Re:Alien bastards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      They tuuk uuuhr juuuubs!

    2. Re:Alien bastards by Hurricane78 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Dek uur deeewww!!!

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    3. Re:Alien bastards by asylumx · · Score: 3, Funny

      That's it. Everybody back to the pile!

    4. Re:Alien bastards by corbettw · · Score: 3, Funny

      They're just doing the jobs that lazy Solar System comets refuse to do. Besides, it's the hard working, entrepreneurial comets that are willing to travel a trillion miles for a chance at a better life for themselves and their satellite debris that made this star system great.

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
  5. Determining origin by FTWinston · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Lets face it, even if we retrieved a sample and analysed it in a lab, we wouldn't be able to say with any real certainty where it came from. We could probably rule out a lot of places it didn't come from, but without sampling a variety of comets from a variety of local star systems, we won't have anything but speculation to compare it to.

    Besides, its only speculation that suggests it didn't come from our own Kuiper belt in the first place - we don't know enough about that to be sure.

    1. Re:Determining origin by freddy_dreddy · · Score: 3, Informative

      overconfident

      Videos here illustrate the effects of the comet's (abnormal) very close trajectory to the sun. Collected dust is pretty much sandblasted away on a regular base.
      But since it doesn't contain assembly language I don't really know what I'm talking about.

      --
      "Violence is the last refuge of the competent, and, generally, the first refuge of the incompetent" - Thing_1
    2. Re:Determining origin by mbone · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Lets face it, even if we retrieved a sample and analysed it in a lab, we wouldn't be able to say with any real certainty where it came from.

      With an actual sample, and isotope analysis, we could say whether or not it came from this solar system. This is done all of the time for tiny grains found in meteors and collected directly, some of which do not come from this solar system.

      True, saying where it did come from might require sampling most of the star systems in our region of the galaxy and that will take... a while.

  6. Re:Nuke it! Nuke it now! by master5o1 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Only if it is on a collision course with Earth and we can send Bruce Willis up there to do the drilling.

    --
    signature is pants
  7. Some guys just got less CN than others by gzipped_tar · · Score: 2, Interesting

    , which has less than 1.5% of the normal level.

    Um, that doesn't sound like an indication of its alien origin.

    The story could go like this: Long long ago, a large comet that had roughly the same concentration of CN as an average one, broke up into 2 pieces. Because the substances are not uniformly distributed over the big comet, one of the pieces happen to have more CN than the other. The one with richer CN then got blown to pieces in a collision of some kind, while the one with less CN survived.

    And no, I didn't read TFA ;)

    --
    Colorless green Cthulhu waits dreaming furiously.
    1. Re:Some guys just got less CN than others by Ian+Alexander · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A comet just happened to form with 98.5% of its CN on one side, which is also the same side which happened to break off and get destroyed? I agree with you that it isn't necessarily alien but that's a bit of a stretch.

  8. Does anybody know by sa1lnr · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What that line is that runs parallel to the comet from the centre of the sun to the bottom left of the image?

    1. Re:Does anybody know by mad_robot · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's the occulter pylon. It holds the occulting disk in place to mask out the light coming directly from the sun.

      --
      U1NCaVpYUWdlVzkxSUhkcGMyZ2dlVzkx SUdoaFpHNG5kQ0JpYjNSb1pYSmxaQT09
    2. Re:Does anybody know by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Pylon? Alien comet? OMG! We're being invaded by Protoss!

  9. Re:Nuke it! Nuke it now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Could we just send him up anyway?

  10. Re:Shock and Awe by Andr+T. · · Score: 2, Funny

    - So, Mr. ... Machholz 1, you say you got to this star system without a visa by mistake? I'm sure Machholz 2 and 3 would be happy to join us in this beautiful, sucessful star system... right? Tell us the truth... you'd get an ilegal job and start bringing your lazy, alien-speaking relatives, that's the truth, isn't it? Don't lie to me, you foreign scum!

    --

    Any life is made up of a single moment, the moment in which a man finds out, once and for all, who he is.

  11. Naquadah by CarpetShark · · Score: 4, Funny

    No, if it's made of naquadah, they'll WANT you to nuke it.

    1. Re:Naquadah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      sorry, retry with a startrek reference

    2. Re:Naquadah by Ihmhi · · Score: 3, Funny

      We need to reverse the polarity on Earth's deflector shields!

      --
      Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
  12. Umm, Carbon-2 and Carbon-3? by cloudious · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm fairly certain that isotopes of carbon with those masses is impossible unless this comet also contains some neat subatomic particles with anti-mass as well.

    The original article has it correct with the 2 and 3 as subscripts. Leave isotopic notation to isotopes.

    --
    Alas, I am becoming a god.
    1. Re:Umm, Carbon-2 and Carbon-3? by Tweenk · · Score: 4, Informative

      Space chemistry is completely unrelated to "normal" earthly chemistry - for example, the second most popular molcule in the universe is H3+ (after H2).

      What is discussed here are molecules composed exclusively of 2 and 3 carbon atoms:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomic_carbon
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tricarbon

      --
      Those who would give up liberty to obtain working drivers, deserve neither liberty nor working drivers.
  13. Not really by berend+botje · · Score: 3, Informative

    If had enough velocity to escape its home system, it wouldn't be captured by "us" either.

    1. Re:Not really by Kagura · · Score: 2, Informative

      If had enough velocity to escape its home system, it wouldn't be captured by "us" either.

      What kind of physicist? You should know good and well several things:

      1) An object could leave the solar system with a final asymptotic speed of, say, 1m/sec relative to our sun. Or 100m/sec. Or 10km/sec. It depends on its initial speed, position, and path out of the solar system. The quoted statement here is simply nonsensical.

      2) Even if an object left our solar system going 100km/sec, that's only the speed relative to our sun. That says nothing about its speed relative to another sun. Just because most stars are in orbit around the galactic center doesn't mean there are huge local variations.

      3) There's not a "three". These should be obvious to any physicist or any layman. The statement you made and the response are just silly! ;)

  14. In related news.. by Max+Littlemore · · Score: 5, Funny

    Scientists have discovered a Buddhist monk who is not human.

    Tensing Abowtaleven isn't like other humans. Hans Gripperpienis of the Starbucks, somewhere, measured the chemical makeup of 150 humans, and found that they all had similar levels of the C8H10N4O2H2O except for Abowtaleven, which had less than 0.5% of the normal level. Along with some other humans, he is also low on the molecules C2H5OH and Coc.

    food for thought...

    --
    I don't therefore I'm not.
  15. This is a long shot by mbone · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Having read the article, the extra-terrestrial origin idea seems like a long shot to me. There is less cyanogen than normal ! Maybe it formed in unusual conditions... or could it be from another solar system ! Note, in all seriousness, that there has never been a firmly established extra-terrestrial "new comet" (on a hyperbolic orbit), so the statistics make this unlikely but certainly not impossible.

    I find dwarf-planet Sedna much more intriguing Sedna's orbit is very strange, this orbit probably formed in an 3-body interaction between the Sun, Sedna, and another star and, if so, there is about a 10% chance that Sedna was originally in orbit about that other star. If I was NASA administrator, one thing I would certainly try and do would be to send a "Pluto Express" type spacecraft there.

    1. Re:This is a long shot by _Shad0w_ · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm fairly sure all comets are extra-terrestrial, what with not being from Earth or its atmosphere.

      --

      Yeah, I had a sig once; I got bored of it.

  16. New Comet Checklist by moxley · · Score: 3, Funny

    Let's see:

    1. Kool Aid (it should be blue) - CHECK
    2. Cyanide - CHECK
    3. Video Cameras to record our ascension to the spaceship that will take us to heaven - CHECK
    4. Special freaky "cult blankies" to cover up with so when they find our "empty shell vessels" they know that this was a joyous occasion, and not some weird cult suicide thing - CHECK

    I think we're ready....You guys just head to the mansion, there's plenty of kool-aid for everyone, but I olny have 25 futuristic cult blanky death shrouds, so you may want to bring you own, I suggest blue or black, but whatever you do just make sure it doesn't have snoopy or south park or some cartoon character...Star Wars is okay - we're videoing everything.

  17. Re: "Screw Star Trek" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Oldie? would you prefer a "Treehouse" reference lil' one?

  18. Chemistry Errors! by HiChris! · · Score: 2, Informative
    I believe someone took a press release - thought they knew enough chemistry to "put it in easy to understand terms" and screwed it up.

    Cyanogen is (CN)2 - Thats 2 Carbons and 2 Nitrogens. Cyanide is a CN- ion.

    The Carbon2 and Carbon3 appear to be general classes of compounds containing 2 Carbons and 3 Carbons - not a specific molecule or isotope.

  19. Re:Carbon-2 ? by Fourpole · · Score: 2, Informative

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomic_carbon