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Copper Thieves Jeopardize US Infrastructure

coondoggie supplies an excerpt from Network World that might make you consider a lock for your pipes: "The FBI today ratcheted up the clamor to do something more substantive about the monumental growth of copper theft in the US. In a report issued today the FBI said the rising theft of the metal is threatening the critical infrastructure by targeting electrical substations, cellular towers, telephone land lines, railroads, water wells, construction sites, and vacant homes for lucrative profits. Copper thefts from these targets have increased since 2006; and they are currently disrupting the flow of electricity, telecommunications, transportation, water supply, heating, and security and emergency services, and present a risk to both public safety and national security." (A July, 2006 post on Ethan Zuckerman's blog gives an idea of how widespread cable theft has affected internet infrastructure, and basketmaking, in Africa.)

18 of 578 comments (clear)

  1. Special license... by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    maybe make it where local, private people can't sell copper to recyclers?

    If you had to be an official 'something' or licensed...that would stop a lot of criminals I'd think?

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    1. Re:Special license... by tripdizzle · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This is something that has been going on for a while, and recyclers know stolen copper when they see it and buy it anyway because its cheap. I dont think licensing sellers would cut down on the theft, it may just create the licensed seller as a middleman for the exchange.

      --
      "A claim for equality of material position can be met only by a government with totalitarian powers." Hayek
    2. Re:Special license... by erroneus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      ...and while you're at it, let's just expand the idea to suggest you must bear the mark of the beast before you should be allowed to buy or sell anything.

    3. Re:Special license... by raymansean · · Score: 5, Interesting

      My dad is a licensed HVAC contractor the way the laws are written in this state, if he does not have an invoice for every atom of cooper on his truck he can be charged with cooper theft. I hardly think that such a law is a solution. If we attempted to solve the problem, people who have nothing better to do than steal cooper to get their next fix. Then we would not have to have such stupid laws. No I do not have a solution, but making my father have a invoice for all the cooper on his truck is silly. The problem with being a licensed something or another is that it is easy to forge such documents. Unless there was a nationwide database of licensed somethigns or anothers, but then you get into the issue of privacy. You can have maximum freedom or maximum security but you can not have both, and any attempt to have more of one will result in you having less of the other. So be careful what you want in the terms of security without looking at what you will need give up in the means of freedom.

      --
      insert inflammatory comment here!
    4. Re:Special license... by popeye44 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If I go to a recycler here in Fresno with much more than half a bag they are going to ask me where I work or where I got the wire. They even call employers to ensure the employees have permission to sell the wire. They generally have quit taking wire from people with shopping carts...

      We have lost in this area just "Fresno" around 14 miles of wire in a very short period of time. And to quantify this even further that is ONLY the wire ran by the state. This does not include city or county lighting losses. We've had the same intersections robbed 4-5 times. Yes we have police watching them but they can only do so much.

      Now something else to consider. These idiots who are stealing this wire are taking it from energized signals. We have battery backups and LED lights in our signals however that means nothing when you can't get a signal from the backup to the light pole because the wire is gone. Now we have an extremely dangerous situation. A Dark Signal. No flashing red no lights. No streetlights depending on how much wire is gone. All we need is a fatality to hang some dumbass bum with a murder charge. Not only that the governing entity will probably get a lawsuit for not having a lit intersection. It's a BAD BAD THING(tm)

      So to resolve this problem we now buy Aluminum wire. As anyone who has worked with aluminum wire can attest this is not really a good solution electrically. However Fiscally it does work as the thieves are at least less likely to continue cutting an intersection apart once they realize it's not copper.

      --
      Inane Comments are Generously Disregarded
  2. Plumbing out of house stolen by SpuriousLogic · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A friend's parents had passed away, and the house was up for sale. She went over to just do a checkup and noticed it was very cold in the house, however the thermostat was set to 50 (house has radiators). She also noticed no water coming form the faucet. She went into the basement - someone had broken in through a window well and cut out every single pipe in the basement. All the plumbing for the radiators and water supply were all gone.

    1. Re:Plumbing out of house stolen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Had some friends in a landscaping, odd jobs business where they were knocking down an old building and trying to save what was worth scraping for the owner to offset costs of a new building somewhat.

      So they had some scrapers come by while they were knocking down a section of the building, who started picking up stuff from their scrap pile and throwing it on their truck. When they were asked what they thought they were doing (getting caught), they unloaded the stuff and had a laugh about it saying they'd just be back later.

      So the guys knocking the place down parked their back-hoe across the only real entrance to the place and parked other machinery on top of the scrap piles. When they came in the next day, the windows were broken out of their equipment and someone had shit in the cabs of the equipment.

      Guys are akin to organized crime in some areas, they work in little teams and do that kinda stuff if you stop them from taking what they think is theirs.

  3. Old News. by FrameRotBlues · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Old news. Price of scrap has bottomed out in the past few months. Most scrapyards around here won't even cut a check if you bring in less than $10 worth of scrap... which is a lot of copper these days.

    As an anecdote, there was a construction site we were working on where the plumbers painted all the copper pipes black, to make them look like steel pipes, to thwart would-be thieves during construction where access to the building is very easy.

  4. Tragic... by stei7766 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When I was stationed in Balad, Iraq I volunteered at the base hospital. We mostly just helped unload the choppers and what not, sometimes walk around and chat with the patients. Balad was the biggest hospital in theatre so the worst cases eventually made their way there for stabilization before being sent to Germany or sent home (in the case of Iraqis).

    Anyways, I must have seen one or two patients a week come in with severe electrical burns from trying to steal copper wire, most of the time it was kids.

    So its not ALWAYS some idiot out to make a quick buck...people can just get desperate.

  5. aluminum by confused+one · · Score: 4, Interesting

    thieves have been stealing the aluminum guard rails, hand rails and brackets off of bridges and overpasses here. Apparently they grab them one or two at a time, and it takes a week or two before they've removed enough that someone notices the missing rails. The aluminum has been found at scrap dealers, cut up into small enough pieces so it's not (easily) identifiable as it's original form.

  6. just went through it by sgt+scrub · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I just went through a process of buying a house. I limited myself to $50k cash total with the intent of doing most of the repairs myself. This limited me to HUD and foreclosures. One thing that was a common denominator of all houses listed by HUD was every piece of copper; AC unit, water heater, pipes, fixtures, and electric wires, were completely striped. I was amazed at the efficiency of many of the robberies. Only a few had holes punched randomly in the walls like someone searching for cable and pipes. The vast majority looked as if someone took the time to walk through the house with a metal detector and surgically removed everything. It made me wonder if someone did just watch for houses to hit the HUD list then rob them.

    --
    Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
  7. Re:High Voltage by Lord+Apathy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I heard a story awhile back about a couple of copper thieves that got what they had coming. Seems these two where fresh off the boat from Somalia or some other 3rd world hell hole. They decided the best way to earn a living was to ply the same trade here as they did there.

    So they slipped over a fence one night to steal some big ass copper bars. They where to stupid to notice the train tracks next door. The copper bars where feed lines to the subway 3rd rail. They say that when the bodies where collected the current exiting had actually blown the feet off at the ankles. The shoes that the feet where in where still in fine condition.

    I can't verify if this story is true or not so I really doubt it happened but when copper theft comes up I always remember it.

    --

    Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification

  8. Re:Some Darwin awars ready and waiting by effigiate · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Substation theft is very common. There are incidents of copper bus (thick copper bars) just being cut through and taken. The theives don't cut all of the buswork because that would alert someone when the power went out. The problem is that if you remove 1/4 or 1/3 of the copper, there is a good chance that the remaining copper will heat up and then fail. Copper thieves have shut off the power on more than one occassion to lots of people.

    Knives and hacksaws are relativley common for substation thieves. Apparentley they think that their rubber soled shoes and rubber gloves can keep them safe against 115kV. Sometimes it does, but when it does not...it is ugly.

  9. Re:Some Darwin awars ready and waiting by nukeade · · Score: 4, Interesting

    On many parts of a substation, insulation wouldn't matter.

    A friend of mine is the chief engineer for an array of power plants in the area. Apparently he once found the exploded body of a guy who had opened up a 20,000V feeder and was using a screwdriver and a pair of pliers, both insulated. He was dead before the tools ever came into contact with the transformer coils.

    I believe three limbs were broken off by the arc, one arm and both legs, all cauterized so that there was surprisingly little blood.

    The copper thieves have been very successful though: in what he believes was an inside job, some people entered a mothballed plant through a tunnel from a nearby substation and took about $20,000 worth of copper from lines that came directly off of the generator. I believe there were tens of feet of this wire, about 1-2" in diameter, that they removed in chunks and transported out underground.

    The worst case, however, was a bit more scary. At one point some copper thieves got into the same mothballed plant, found a locked door, turned on a forklift and rammed the door with the forklift until the forklift fell down some nearby stairs and got stuck. DHS then got interested in the plant since had the thief made it into this room, he would have been able to shut down power for the entire city of Pittsburgh (the plant was mothballed, but the substation controls in this room were active)! Now the plant's fitted with IR cameras and anyone who gets spotted is likely to be answering some questions courtesy of the DHS cowboys.

    ~Ben

  10. Alternate Solution by VernonNemitz · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Copper is in demand because it has a lot of uses. SOME of those uses can be replaced by other metals, such as aluminum. One of the biggest uses is in wiring for residential/commercial construction. They used to allow aluminum wiring, but dropped it when fires could be traced to it --aluminum is softer than copper, when screwed down in an electrical connection, the metal tends to flow, so the connection loosens, and sparks start happening. If you have aluminum wiring in your house, you need to have the electrical connections re-tightened annually. However, if they could devise a generic and simple solution to that problem, then they could start using aluminum wiring again, the demand for copper would go down, and therefore the price would go down along with the incentive to steal. One possibility for a better aluminum connector involves a double-crimp. In-between the two crimps, the metal can't flow anywhere and would stay solidly in contact with the exterior harder-metal tube (usually a copper-aluminum alloy) that had been crimped onto the wire.

  11. Re:We need a law by Hurricane78 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Funny thing is: There are actually plastics that are conductive. PVC is not one of them though. ;)

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  12. Re:We need a law by ericferris · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Yup, that's correct. My cousin did her thesis on conductive polymers.

    The most interesting applications would be batteries, but right now, the capacity/weight ratio of polymer batteries doesn't look very good compared to metal-based couples.

    --
    Fantasy: http://ferrisfantasy.blogspot.com/
  13. Stealing radioactive stainless steel by Animats · · Score: 3, Interesting

    About ten years ago, Stanford used to have a small fenced yard on Stock Farm Road which contained some large stainless steel items, mostly large-diameter plumbing left over from physics experiments. A small radioactive trefoil was posted on the fence, and it had its own street light, but other than that, it wasn't protected.

    I bicycled by this every day on my way to the Stanford barn (I kept a horse on campus at the time). One day I noticed that the fence had been cut and much of the metal was missing. So I stopped by Stanford's toxic waste incinerator ("environmental safety facility") nearby to report this, and was sent to the radiation safety officer. He immediately made some calls.

    Stanford had to have people check all the scrapyards for miles around, but nothing seriously radioactive turned up. The steel had been there for years, and was down to about twice background, so it wasn't a serious hazard. It was from experiments at the old linear accelerator (not SLAC, the little one at Hansen Labs), and had picked up some induced radioactivity. You can't really make stainless all that radioactive. Stanford shipped out the remaining metal to some remote disposal site for burial.