Slashdot Mirror
Online Billpay Provider Loses Control of Domains
An anonymous reader writes "Several sites are running a story about a domain hijacking at Checkfree, the largest provider of online bill payment services to numerous banks and credit unions. According to Network Solutions, someone logged in to the domain administration page using Checkfree's account, and redirected its domains to a site in the Ukraine configured to serve up malware to unsuspecting users." Things like this make me nervous about switching to otherwise-tempting online bill payment, but checks are dangerous, too.
CheckFree, what can I say? At least now my Nigerian account can be linked in and I will finally get my cut of the money that I fronted 1% for, to get it out of the country...
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
The OP says "Things like thismake me nervous about switching to otherwise-tempting online bill payment." Nothing here had to do with the site being for online bill paying. This could happen for any trusted website, even Slashdot.
Obviously, the only safe solution is to not pay... what, that has problems too?!?
Posting anonymously so I don't get sued.
In Soviet Ukraine, engineers socialize you! (Oh god did I really just type that?)
Funny thing is it's a step back for Network Solutions security. You USED to be able to set it up to require a RSA key for domain changes, back when everything was done via odd forms over email.
Things like this make me nervous about switching to otherwise-tempting online bill payment, but checks are dangerous, too.
I'm one of those holdouts who still use paper checks, envelopes, and stamps to pay my bills. Once a month or so I'll bring the stack into the office and take care of it during downtime, and folks look at me like I'm transmitting morse code over a telegraph. I do bank online, but I don't do online bill pay.
One reason I still cling to checks is that they allow me to be the final arbiter and gatekeeper of my money, and I have better fiscal responsibility when I'm directly involved in disbursement. Each time I physically write out a check, there's a bit of mental bookkeeping that takes place. You can't sit down and write "One thousand one hundred ninety-eight and 32/100" without pausing for a moment to think, holy shit, that's X% of my paycheck. If you elect not to use online bill pay, you have to actually look at your credit card statements each month, instead of just setting up a $200 monthly ACH and ignoring the current total.
I'm afraid that if I set everything up to be paid automatically, I'd very quickly wake up to discover that my checking account is overdrawn because I wasn't paying enough attention. Writing checks and licking envelopes is my way of keeping tabs on what's going out the door each month. The potential security benefits don't hurt, as anyone screwing around with mailed bills faces the wrath of the United States Postal Inspection Service. Unlike most online fraud, fucking with the mails will actually get you in trouble, and USPIS doesn't blow you off if you haven't suffered hundreds of thousands of dollars in losses.
I do miss the one benefit that physical checks had up until a couple of years ago, the float. Check21 pretty much ruined that, but maybe it was for the better. Come to think of it, I haven't overdrafted since Check21.
Long live the check, just stay away from my routing numbers.
Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
Anyhow, what I know is that the malware is new and still being analyzed -- they're not fully sure what it's for yet (capturing accounts, spamming, botnet, or probably all of the above). For now they are recommending that people udate their virus scanners and Acrobat Reader. They must suspect Acrobat as an infection vector somehow.
Real programmers use "copy con program.exe"
For US Bank anyway, when I tried to go to my bill pay when this was going on my browser gave a nice message that the SSL cert was self signed and issued to localhost.localdomain. Any modern browser makes is pretty clear that something bad is happening in this case, although I'm sure there's still plenty of ignorant users willing to click through.
True, my financial institution (US Bank) may or may not be to blame, HOWEVER, you'd think it wouldn't take a bank a full day to let users know or take away the bill pay link or something along those lines. When I saw the invalid certificate, I still needed to cancel an automatic payment so I decided to contact my bank. Their response was basically, "we take security very seriously, please make sure you're using a compatible browser, move along now, nothing here to see." It wasn't until at least a day later that they notified users when logging in that bill pay was down. I wonder how many users clicked through during that one day period, which could have easily been prevented by a faster response?
This isn't an online banking issue, this is an issue of domain-stealing. The fact that it's banking-related is immaterial. If the domains stolen were instead several newspaper domains we wouldn't call into question the credibility of the news (at least not more than we do now).
I've been involved w/ online/PC banking for 15 years or so and can tell you it's been a huge time + postage savings for me. I have no idea what the cost of a stamp is because the only reason I'd ever need them is for bills. Give it a shot w/ just one bill for a month or two.
That said, CheckFree is fairly notorious for their poor service and it's not surprising to me if they turn out to be at blame here. Especially disturbing is the apparently slapshod response.
JAGga.me ----> Producing video games addressing emotional health and wellness issues affecting teens.
... clearing something was a little TOO "check free". maybe they should change their name to "Checkalittlemore"
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
Each time I physically write out a check, there's a bit of mental bookkeeping that takes place. You can't sit down and write "One thousand one hundred ninety-eight and 32/100" without pausing for a moment to think, holy shit, that's X% of my paycheck.
This is exactly why people should have to pay income tax instead of having it automatically deducted.
If everyone actually had to write that fat check out, they might begin to care about elections and the state of the world.
"Nothing anywhere is completely safe. Everything you own is up for grabs at any point in time by anyone who wants it bad enough. Best course of action I can think of is to buy a gun."
What if what they want really badly is your gun? By your own admission, "Everything you own is up for grabs at any point in time by anyone who wants it bad enough." That would include the gun, seems like.
This is a feature I also miss. They had a PGP keyserver, and you uploaded your PGP public key you wanted associated with the account. Then, you filled out the funky form that you E-mailed in, signed it with the key, and sent it in.
I know this probably can't be done now, but instead, why not offer keyfobs similar to SecurID? PayPal, eBay, a number of banks, heck, even Blizzard offer this feature, so a compromised password isn't the end of the world.
People use hardware devices to make sure their SSL keys arn't compromised; why not have that functionality guarding an element that arguably is just as important in the security chain.
The current bill payers in America are getting old.
The credit card companies have a stranglehold on paying by any form of credit card.
Paypal is evil.
There is no nationally accepted payment system where someone or both do not get gouged some fee. Checks are one of the few ways both parties can avoid some of the fees though I've heard that banks are starting to jack up the cost of processing them.
Our banks do not cater to customers, they are hind bound and greedy. They won't do anything unless they can screw their customers or the government for money.
When the banks finally get less incompetent they might be able to pry online payments and credit cards away from the major credit card companies. It won't happen soon because of the long term incestuous symbiotic relationship they have.
I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
When I was 16, I discovered that with a ruler, an exacto knife, and some elmer's glue you could make up your own checks. They also had "MAC Check" machines that would scan a check - even from a non-customer - and cash them.
When I was 19, I worked in a junk mail plant that at times printed the 25% interest rate personal checks that credit card companies send out to new cardholders. All night we would watch "CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR NEW $100,000 CREDIT LIMIT!" with 6 checks attached go whizzing by at 5MPH. When that roll of checks breaks, printed-but-junk checks dump on the floor, 7 feet per second, and if I wanted, I could pocket the sonsabitches and spend like hell - before the recipient even activated their new card. We sent those out, too.
Can our banking system really be that insecure? I open an account based on a supposedly unique ID number, hand them a photo ID that doesn't even reference my SSN. Then, they give me another number - my account number - and tell me to keep it private. Three weeks later, I get my checks that ten minimum wage slaves have already gotten to see. Every check I hand out has my private account number printed at the bottom.
Most banks hold you responsible for any automated clearing house fraud, and yet, to authorize a transfer out, all that is needed are the numbers at the bottom of every personal check you write and the "assurance" from the receiving institution that you have "authorized the transfer".
When ya think about it, it's no wonder they charge you $2 to withdraw from an ATM, $3 to use a teller, and $35 for an overdraft - it's easier to roll the dice to get an account number than it is to roll the dice and win the lottery!
Bank of America allows you to pay online via systems that accept it, and mail checks to those who don't. Strangely enough, most of the people I pay bills to here in Massachusetts accept digital billpay through whatever system they use. But even paper checks are automatic and free.
BofA is a bunch of greedy bastards, yet they found a way to make it worthwile and simple. It's slowly filtering over to America.
It's like Cellphones: Companies don't feel like they can change one territory in the US at a time... they have to go all or nothing. So we get systems 10 years after the rest of the world has piecemeal brought themselves into it. Otherwise nationwide rollouts are untennable.
The ______ Agenda
My gas company offered the option of using Checkfree.
Had I opted in, it cost an additional 8$ to pay with my credit card, rather than sending in a personal check.
Instead I just use US Banks online Billpay option. Free, and cuts out the middle man.
Here in Australia the BPay system is ubiquitous.
Every online banking system I've used has a 'pay bills' function, that lets you plug in the BPay details (biller, account code) and pay the bill that way.
As it's a standard approach, you can pay your bills from any bank.
As it's using your actual online banking, it's not a single target.
BPay is wonderful, the US really needs an equivalent.
Domain registrars come in several tiers.
MarkMonitor is in the business of protecting "brands", so they have lawyers and technicians on staff to swing into action if somebody pulls something. If you have to ask how much they cost, you can't afford them.
At least they pay security lip service. My mother was having trouble enabling online Suntrust banking from her OS X machine months back (we tried three browser types, all failed differently.) The Suntrust rep on the phone actualy made the suggestion that my mother go to a public library with a Windows machine since it would work there*. It's at this point I went from anoyed to extremely cross and chewed the person out. I wonder how many other customers with out Windows PCs and tech-savy children were following this advice.
*For some reason the software lets you manage your account fine from a Mac, but won't let you do the first time setup.
"You saved 1968." - Ms. Valerie Pringle to the crew of Apollo 8
You *do* realize that all of those banks allow an attacker to access your account without the keyfob, right? They just need to call the bank, impersonate you (often by simply using the password they keylogged in the first place) and claim they lost it (or just use the automated phone service at most banks, which accepts your password without the added key).
In this specific case, the vulnerability was just that the attacker had to upload his key in your name before you got around to it - but that was still better than nothing!
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Mod the parent up. Seriously. So what if he is an Anonymous Coward. frick'in stupid moderators. :P
What is so wrong paying cash? For example, I have a AT&T dsl account that I'm "suppose" to have
a CC attached to it for payment. Wtf? Why should I have to go through these loopholes to pay my bill?
Do I have options to pay the account locally? Yes, I finally found that out. Automated payments are
evil, end of story. When has it became so evil to pay by cash? If I can't have a option to pay by
cash, without loopholes then said companies need to be sued, period. Oh, and I'm billed a month
ahead of my usage. Nice.....
Life was hell, then I discovered Linux...
Why don't Americans use wire transfer more often? In Europe it is a fast and relatively safe method.
This seems to be what happens when any business tries to implement any sort of account security. It has to be made so it can be easily bypassed, or you end up with customers mad at the company because they locked themselves or relatives/family out and the company wont allow them to simply go through on their word they are authorized. It's like they don't know how to see how it looks from the company's point of view.
Build a better lock, and they'll build a better idiot.
On my country, in pratice checks - electronic or real ones - is not accepted anymore. Too many frauds
Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
Interestingly, a few months ago, my financial services company (Merrill Lynch) changed the way their online login works to make this attack very hard. They required me to select an image from a large catalog, and a phrase I made up to go with it. Now, when I log in, I am presented the image and the phrase. Since these images come from a huge catalog, and the phrase is entirely up to the user, the probability that a hijacked page would have the same information is very small. In effect, the site is presenting _me_ with a pasword, before I present it with a password. (Cue, on 3, In Soviet Russia, sites log onto you)
I think this makes these pages fairly secure against the various DNS and other redirect attacks people have come up with. Someone would have to get very deep access to the main server, to figure out the image everyone chose, to successfully hijack a site.